Anonymous wrote:I am sure there are lots of theories on this. I have a 5th grader in a charter I am happy with but I am less confident about the middle school options she has. A co-worker whose kids were lifers at Georgetown Day told me that looking back on it, she isn't sure that her kids needed to attend all those years and would have been just as successful if they'd only attended for high school. She thought her kids did as well as the kids who entered in 9th. Do you guys have thoughts on whether the money is worth it for middle school? Also, I would love to hear thoughts on whether it seems harder or easier to get in in middle school vs high school. We just have one kid so while it would be a big stretch for us, we could pull off private.

I've seldom found anybody who thinks that middle schools are the long suit at MCPS, FCPS, or DCPS.

For whatever it's worth, my own kids attended independent school through grade 8 and then an MCPS high school. My bias is that families with limited funds (for whatever reason) should consider whether investing earlier, rather than later, makes sense. What happens earlier gets into their DNA in a way that makes for a much more *lifelong* outlook on education. And middle school is much more likely to be dicey than high school. For those who consider the same route, strong independent college counseling is widely available in this area, and much less expensive than four years of independent school.

Here's a piece I wrote some time ago encouraging families to consider K–8 schools seriously, in addition to K-12 options. For the sake of full disclosure, I was running a middle school at a K–8, but I wouldn't have been able to write it if I didn't believe it, and I still use it frequently.

https://peterbraverman.com/school-that-ends-in-grade-8

Anonymous wrote:Does your school consider twins as related applicants or does each child go on his/her own? I would have assumed the latter but was having dinner with a friend from another state and she was insistent that private schools will consider twins together. (Granted, she doesn't live in the hyper competitive DC area.)

Was curious if anyone has experience re this. I have fraternal girl twins and we're considering private but one of them is academically not as strong as the other and I am worried about the psychological impacts it may have if one gets in and the other doesn't.

There is no single right answer. Multiples can be an advantage, as most schools want to keep families together for many reasons (transportation, contributions, common decency), and a slightly weaker applicant can benefit from the "coattails" or a stronger one. However, as a later posted noted, the school would have to have space for both kids, whether they're multiples or just siblings of different ages. (To that poster's example, I have seldom heard of a school turning away two because they're going to reject one; "We didn't think you would send Ben because we're not going to admit Becky" is a puzzling statement. Most schools take the kids they want and let the parents make the decision whether to enroll.)

I've had a bunch of twins and even triplets over the years (and, of course, many just-siblings) and seldom find schools that will separate them, unless a school is seriously concerned about the progress of one of the multiples. In that case, most admission offices will call in advance to give the parents a heads-up that there could be a split decision, so to speak. You can also make it clear during the admission process that your family is a two-fer, and that you will not enroll one without the other if that's what you intend to do.

Here are two examples: Many years ago, I had a conversation about triplet applicants with the admission director at a prominent DC school. I said, with respect, "You can certainly turn them all away, or you could take one, or you can take them all, but for Lord's sake please don't take just two." She replied: "Don't be ridiculous. We'd never do that." They took all three, including the one with a 17th-percentile SSAT math score. Not surprisingly, they all did fine.

A few years later, I worked with a family that had three applicants (one lower school, one middle, one upper) to another prominent DC school. The school wait-listed two and rejected the third, a first-grader. I was irritated — why not just wait-list the youngest too, if you're not gonna take them all, instead of a risk of insulting a family? I spoke to the admission director about it, and she told me that since each division's decisions were made independently, they missed it. She apologized and agreed it wasn't a great play on their part.

The process is very human, and different schools may play situations differently. Of course, you could always ask the admission offices straight-up. I don't think there's any harm in that.

The "new" kind of transcript, called the Mastery Transcript, is the brainchild of a 14-year school head named Scott Looney (who is, fair disclosure, a good friend of mine). It is supported by an avalanche of educational research into how students learn and build success in their lives. Scott's school in Cleveland, Hawken School, is pioneering an adjunct high school this fall dedicated to the concept, and indeed it is ungraded — though Hawken itself retains traditional grades. You can be sure the new school will have flaws, and you can be sure they'll make adjustments as they go along.

If anybody is interested in WHY such an initiative might be appealing (and, yes, minor colleges like Harvard are already on board), reading might start with their site, www.mastery.org, rather than with the vapors over the death of merit.

Reasonable people can disagree about the idea, but years of thought have gone into this whole thing, and reducing it to "How stupid" says far more about the poster than about the "new" transcript.

Sorry to interrupt the quick insults to defend an approach that assesses students based on what they've learned, how deeply they think, and what they can do with their knowledge, rather than simply test scores. Call me a wild-eyed dreamer, but that seems like an idea worth discussing.

Anonymous wrote:The best thing to do is to go visit the school. It will give you a better sense than anything you will get on DCUM. Also, try to talk to current WIS parents to find out more details. The admissions office might even be able to put you in touch with some parents, if you ask.

My kids were "lifers" at WIS and we were extremely happy with the school. Of course it's not perfect, but no school can claim that title. Our kids who are now in college feel great affection for their time there and would definitely say it prepared them for university. Th community is warm and friendly (not sure what the PP above was talking about, but it sounds like they are basing their opinion on a small pool of people...)

I have some limited knowledge of St. John's through friends and family and it is vastly different than WIS in most ways. It is a fine school with a focus on sports. The academics are perfectly fine, but not as strong as WIS', whereas academics are very strong at WIS, but sports is not a big focus (definitely present, but not a focus).

Again, visit the school. You might find yourself pleasantly surprised, even if you decide that it's not the right fit for your kid.

Good luck!

Somebody should report this post. It's not clear what a thoughtful, rational person with no snarky "cleverness" and no obvious ax to grind is doing here at all.

Anonymous wrote:I am an Asian parent. Maybe it's my culture, but I do not care about facilities or prestige. I care about the quality of teaching and results. Somebody mentioned it to me but I did not have the time to verify it: is it true that Maret has the highest concentration of PHDs in its faculty compared to all the other DC privates?

I agree entirely that the quality of teaching is by far the most important aspect of a school's appeal. However, I was a teacher for three years and a private school administrator for 20, and I have never seen even the slightest correlation between a Ph.D. degree and the quality of teaching. I hired and worked with fantastic teachers from no-name colleges, and I fired teachers with degrees from schools near the top of the US News list.

The skills needed to obtain a Ph.D. and those needed to communicate effectively with a roomful of eighth graders are almost entirely distinct, perhaps even incompatible. As much as we'd like to believe we've found the formula for the perfect [student, teacher, school, life], we haven't. That's because there is no formula.

Anonymous wrote:Although the Maret lease has prompted my interest, I was to pose a broader question. Do faculty, students and families engage in discussions as to the school's conduct at these institutions? Do community members have license to think critically and speak?

"The school's conduct" is a pretty broad topic. There are times discussions are inappropriate or even prohibited by law — the obvious example is a school's decision not to re-hire a staff member. Parents should not expect to have input on that type of decision after the fact.

More broadly, organizations have cultures and people have strengths and weaknesses. Sometimes administrators don't allow for sufficient feedback because they don't think of it, or they're just driven to get things done, not because they're philosophically opposed or dictatorial by temperament. And for each parent who would like to comment on every impending decision, there's another thinking, "Blah blah blah, just make a decision!" It's a balancing act, always.

The answer to the original question depends almost entirely on the school, the leadership at that school, and the culture that's developed over decades. Overall, like any "boss," I think most school administrators crave feedback, as long as it's constructive and respectful — but I've certainly known and worked with some who don't.

If the topic itself is interesting, Douglas Stone and Sheila Heen's book, Thanks for the Feedback, is superb.

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Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to write uninformed, personal, or mean-spirited posts when posters don't identify themselves. I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools. I have read hundreds of admission files, and I have counseled hundreds of students in finding their next schools in the DC area. If you disagree with something I've written, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students and parents ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> peterbraverman <dotcom>

I worked for five years in a solid second-tier boarding school in the Midwest. My impression was that most parents were very pleased with the school and their kids' experience, but I think the answer to the question depends more on the particular parents than the schools (which the OP may already be implying).

Contrary to movie myths, most boarding school kids are normal, happy, and motivated. Of 300 students at the school where I worked, I can think of only a tiny handful whose parents seemed disconnected or aloof. Did they miss their kids? Sure, but most parents, especially those without great local school options, also saw the benefits of a challenging education, great athletics, a tight community, and staff who cared deeply about teaching.

To gain more insight, you might visit a few close-by schools and speak to the parent representatives. (Every admission office has a list. It's obviously stocked with their most ardent supporters, but it's not necessarily just a cheerleading squad, especially if you ask directed questions, like "What was the hardest thing for YOU to adapt to?")

If you conclude that it would be too much for you to have your child attend a full-time boarding school, you could look for a nearer-to-home option with a five-day boarding program where students return on the weekend. There are a handful of those schools around, though, in candor, they are not always the most academically demanding. (Some are, most aren't.) And remember, it's a process of adjustment for parents as well as kids. What troubles you two weeks in may resolve after a semester. If you commit, give it time.

Good luck!

_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to write uninformed, personal, or mean-spirited posts when posters don't identify themselves. I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools. I have read hundreds of admission files, and I have counseled hundreds of students in finding their next schools in the DC area. If you disagree with something I've written, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students and parents ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> peterbraverman <dotcom>

I think you might reconsider applying to any school in a different grade from the others. It's not about giving him an extra year to become "smarter" — it's about developmental readiness, socialization, and other non-academic factors. If he's developmentally ready for 1, then it's not likely K would work at Sidwell any more than it would elsewhere. In addition, it's possible the admission office will figure out what's going on, and conclude you're trying to game the system — not a recipe for success.

If it feels like your son is on the border between two grades, which often happens with boys with summer birthdays (my June-birthday son liked pre-K so much he did it twice!), I'd suggest discussing it with admission offices. Most schools will allow a student to visit in the best-guess grade, and then, based on the visit or playgroup, will let parents know if one grade up or down would be a better match. Some schools will tell parents of kids on the border something like, "We are boy-heavy in K, so it probably makes sense to apply to 1." Some schools will allow families to apply to two different grades, and then make an offer of admission to the grade they think makes more sense.

In other words, choosing one grade or the other, based on Ravenna's limitations, may actually reduce your options compared to what you'd have after a conversation with the admission office. And if your son is not a good match for K, regardless of his WPPSI scores, applying to the lower grade is very unlikely to increase his admission chances anyway.

Good luck!

_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to write uninformed, personal, or mean-spirited posts when posters don't identify themselves. I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools. I have read hundreds of admission files, and I have counseled hundreds of students in finding their next schools in the DC area. If you disagree with something I've written, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students and parents ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> peterbraverman <dotcom>

Anonymous wrote:Is it true the Lab and High School are surprisingly humble modest low-key where most private schools of its caliber are elitist and snobby? If true, how does an elite private school cultivate that vibe? Curious if there are distinct things they do to dissuade the arrogant pompous snobby vibe.

The people I know best from U-High are definitely modest people, but I think it's mostly just the Midwest. I dunno ... a school is a culture, just like any organization. Most people who found something as ambitious as a school have a lot to do, so thinking about culture doesn't often rise to the the of the list — especially if it's founded in, what, like 1895 or something? Chicago's culture isn't as competitive as that in DC, and the city is bigger, so not everybody knows everybody.

Also, they don't have chicagourbanmom.com. (Seriously, the closest thing I could find is chicagoschooloptions.com. The private school forum has nine topics, and 20 total posts, the most recent being a month ago!)

Peter

Anonymous wrote:What private schools require background checks for parent volunteers?

It's required by the state of Maryland for adults working with children in any kind of institution. It's not just schools — it's required for camp workers as well. I confess I don't know about equivalent laws in DC or Virginia.

Anonymous wrote:What’s the rep? What would you say is a DC area peer?

Normally I wouldn't comment on this but I'm a native Chicagoan with many friends who attended the UC schools. (I attended public schools in the north suburbs.) Here are a few questions I'd grapple with if I were considering UCLS.

1. What's commonly referred to as "UC Lab" is actually two schools — the Lab School (with three or four divisions from N to 8) and University High School. The Lab School was just that — a laboratory for the education department, until the University shut down the department about 20 years ago. Founded by the godfather of progressive education, John Dewey, Lab was deeply progressive. (That's an educational philosophy, not a political affiliation.) "U-High," as it's commonly called, was never a "lab school" that I know of. While the education department is moribund, the reputations of the two divisions are intact — but this is obviously a broad brush, so take it with a grain of salt (or maybe with a stroke of paint).

2. I would be wary of trying to associate one city's schools with another. At over 2000 kids, the UC schools really don't compare well to any specific DC schools, and I think it's likely that prospective parents would be distracted by the comparison. For one thing, private schools do not play the roles in Chicago that they play in DC, so the culture around a statement such as "It's like Sidwell" really doesn't make sense. Chicago's population is five times that of DC but it has only a fraction of the independent schools — they just don't compare. Another angle: In its educational approach, the UCLab lower school could probably be compared with that at, say, Georgetown Day School — but if you make that assumption, it's then easy to imagine that you're applying to GDS instead of finding out all you need to know about UCLab. I think it's fair to say that the UC schools are unapologetically intellectual. And while there are several schools in DC that could be described that way, but none of those DC schools really feels anything like the UC schools. (In all honesty, I haven't visited UC in a long time, and acknowledge that any school evolves.)

3. The school is one of the very few in the US whose faculty is unionized. It may not affect your children on a day-to-day basis, but the teachers at Lab wield a lot of power compared to those elsewhere. I'm not judging whether that's good or bad. It's just a factor, and it's probably worth asking current parents how that plays out if you end up looking seriously.

4. There are very few big independent schools in Chicago (or the Midwest generally). If you favor the progressive roots of Lab, you should also look at Francis Parker, in Lincoln Park, as well. It's one of the most dyed-in-the-wool progressive schools in the country, with a progressive curriculum through grade 12, and a North Side campus in case that's an advantage to you. This is hardly secret information — I think almost anybody would recommend the same. Parker's main competitor, the nearby Latin School of Chicago, is much more traditional, and equally well regarded on its own terms.

I'm not an expert on Chicago schools these days, but I hope that gives you a little to chew on.

Peter
_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's too easy to write uninformed, personal, or mean-spirited posts if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools. I have read hundreds of admission files, and I have counseled hundreds of students in finding their next schools in the DC area. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students and parents ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> peterbraverman <dotcom>

Anonymous wrote:We won’t qualify for financial aid, but can’t afford private either. Our income is high but we support our families back home. DD does very well academically. Does any school in DC offer financial aid based only on merit? Thanks

It's not common, but there are a handful of schools that offer merit-based scholarships at some grade levels (e.g., 9). If it's important to you, it's worth asking admission offices directly. It's certainly not an unreasonable question.

Unless your income is very high (around the mid-six figures), don't assume your family won't qualify for aid. Many with high incomes do qualify after other factors are weighed. For example, it's possible that SSS would not give you credit for money sent back home, but some schools may be willing to consider your support of family members in the equation because they find it admirable or simply because it's an expense. (I don't have any actual experience with this scenario; I'm just offering a reasonable hypothetical.) And there is nothing unethical about a school offering more aid to a family that it wants to attract. If yours is one, you may be able to secure more aid than the SSS calculations would seem to merit.

Overall, what is loosely called "financial aid" is a fungible resource, and it may depend on factors outside any family's control — for example, if a school's overall tuition reductions for a graduating class are heavy (because of faculty remission, learning support that the school underwrites, financial aid), there may be more available for incoming students than at other schools whose graduating students' tuitions are more lightly discounted. It's a balancing act everywhere.

Good luck.
Peter
_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's too easy to write uninformed, personal, or mean-spirited posts if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools. I have read hundreds of admission files, and I have counseled hundreds of students in finding their next schools in the DC area. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students and parents ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> peterbraverman <dotcom>

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t the family ask the school directly? More importantly, why doesn’t the school address it directly rather than have the family go through this agony of not knowing?

This.

There is no universal approach. If you have a fear that your school thinks it is not the right fit for your child, ask them directly. Do your best to hear their reasoning and to presume good intentions. As "helper" types, teachers may see this at least partially as their fault — they are aware that they do not have the training or skills to address every student's learning needs and that makes them feel helpless, just as parents may. And no school administrator looks forward to these decisions or the meetings around them.

I think we get hung up because the language is difficult and sometimes painful, but this process should NOT be secretive. I'm afraid I've been through this more than once, and I learned how to do it by doing it badly at first (ugh). Here are some specific questions that may be helpful for parents to consider. These questions should be put to administrators, not teachers, because: 1) teachers are often very reluctant to deliver bad news (in a global sense — e.g., Sally is having trouble processing information), 2) teachers can only speak about their specific classes, and 3) teachers will not be making these decisions.

Are you concerned that this year may be (is) more challenging for Sally than for other fifth graders?

Is there a chance you will decide against offering an enrollment contract for next year?

If the answer is yes, by what date will you let us know about your decision? (It is important for us to know with sufficient time to find another school.) How will you keep us apprised of your decision-making?

If the answer is yes, how do you plan to support her to the best of your ability through this year? What help do you need from us?

(If Sally is old enough to feel like this is a "punishment" — about grade 2 or higher...) How will you help us with Sally's reaction to this situation? How do you suggest we support her at home?

Will you give us help finding Sally's next school? How, specifically? (I know of at least one school that absorbs the fee for an independent counselor.)

Honestly, these situations suck for everybody. Do your best to be honest and transparent, and if you feel like the school isn't doing so with you, say so as politely as you can. ("It doesn't feel like we're getting the whole picture from you.") And for God's sake, do not threaten to sue. Unless your situation is truly extraordinary, you can't win, and the acrimony cannot possibly help your child.

Ultimately, you don't want your kid at a school that can't serve her effectively. But getting to that point is no fun at all.

Peter
_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's too easy to write uninformed, personal, or mean-spirited posts if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools. I have read hundreds of admission files, and I have counseled hundreds of students in finding their next schools in the DC area. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students and parents ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> peterbraverman <dotcom>

Anonymous wrote:The schools ask for recs from “current” teachers. Can we ask teachers from last year? DC is in 8th grade - so can 7th grade teachers be asked?

Unless there is some truly extenuating circumstance, no. I don't think it's a good idea to give a school reason to disqualify part of your child's application.

Peter
_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's too easy to write uninformed, personal, or mean-spirited posts when people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools. I have read hundreds of admission files, and I have counseled hundreds of students in finding their next schools in the DC area. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students and parents ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> peterbraverman <dotcom>

Anonymous wrote:SSAT is better if your kid is a good test taker but it does penalize for wrong answers
Really best to have them take both

It is true that the SSAT penalizes for wrong answers while the ISEE does not. Respectfully, however, I do not recommend taking both tests. My approach would be to consult with a test prep outfit to get some data on which test might suit your child well. (You could do that in a fairly brief one or two sessions, irrespective of whether you want to go through with more full-scale tutoring.) Even trying samples online is likely to be instructive, without the investment of time and headaches of actually taking both tests.

It takes a lot of time for kids to have to prepare for two tests, and most test-prep folks I know concur that it's not a great use of resources. I'd sooner spend the time spent on the second test preparing for the first, whichever one that turns out to be.

I recognize that others' experiences may be different. It's not my intention to say, "YOU'RE WRONG!" — merely to provide another perspective.

Peter