Anonymous wrote:

pbraverman wrote:Even at the most competitive schools, there are very few kids who have scored in the 95+ percentiles across the board. And, just as Harvard turns away more 2400s than they accept, many of those independent school applicants are not offered spots. The reason is that every school I've ever known will consider scores in the context of other attributes: sibling status, diversity, a potential all-American in soccer or basketball, a student whose acting prowess is nationally recognized as early as eighth grade, or a kid whose charm is simply off the charts. Those aren't "invented" examples: I've worked with all of those kids. Schools will also turn down kids who are very obnoxious, or who have very obnoxious parents, no matter the test scores. I've seen that too, unfortunately.

Where does that leave the majority of students--good kids with good scores and normal parents who are not future all-Americans or Broadway-bound? Is high school entry still the kind of glorified lottery that pre-K admission seems to be?

There is some aspect of a lottery to it, especially in the early grades, where kids are more homogenous and don't have track records. It's harder to admit kindergartners from a big pool than ninth graders. But that's only at the most competitive five or seven schools. The rest are places where good, normal kids usually find a great education. I'd strike the word "glorified" in your question. It's only glorified because people glorify it in a cultural way that's beyond my ability to explain.

Suffice it to say: If you believe in your child, rather than in the school, you'll find that he or she is capable of doing great almost anywhere! The irony is that families who believe in their kids, rather than in the school, are probably more likely to get in.

Peter

_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to be uninformed, personal, or simply mean-spirited if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools, and I hope I can be helpful to some folks. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> arcpd <dot> com

Anonymous wrote:

pbraverman wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what do you mean she did not get any acceptance?
Did they give you guys a reason?
How was her grade at school?

She was in an alternative school and didn't have grades. Solid recommendations and we didn't need Financial Aid. But it wasn't an expansion year so we are trying again for sixth grade.

Good call. In most cases coming back is seen as a positive. Good luck!
Peter

Hope thats the case because we are doing the same-I suspect similar grade/school. My child's scores aren't strong but I am hoping strong transcript, recs and visit will overshadow. This time we are opening up and applying to several schools in addition.

If your choices include schools in Montgomery County or Virginia, your child will have a much greater chance of at least one offer. The DC schools are so competitive in large part because the perception is that DCPS doesn't offer a good alternative.

But the most important thing you said is the last — be sure to cast a wide net, and remember, the big schools are just schools. They aren't Wonka Golden Tickets or judgments on a child's life or a parent's parenting. High school isn't the end game, and neither is college. They're just steps in the process. Hard work, thoughtfulness, learning to take advantage of opportunities, and rebounding from failure will take your child much farther than a Yale degree, or whatever the high school equivalent is.

Peter

_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to be uninformed, personal, or simply mean-spirited if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools, and I hope I can be helpful to some folks. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> arcpd <dot> com

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what do you mean she did not get any acceptance?
Did they give you guys a reason?
How was her grade at school?

She was in an alternative school and didn't have grades. Solid recommendations and we didn't need Financial Aid. But it wasn't an expansion year so we are trying again for sixth grade.

Good call. In most cases coming back is seen as a positive. Good luck!
Peter

Anonymous wrote:

pbraverman wrote:I've seen several kids with every sub-score above the 95th percentile.

Only "several"? Do you believe that your sample is representative of the applicant pool, or is it possible that families with kids who score very highly are less likely to seek admissions counseling?

I take your point that kids with stratospheric scores may seem less in need of counseling than mere mortals, but testing is only one aspect of an applicant's profile and schools recognize this. Some emphasize testing more than others, of course.

To answer your question directly: My sample has not been subjected to rigorous statistical analysis, but yes, I think it's representative. Before I launched my own firm, I worked in a school, where I counseled hundreds of students applying to high school (meaning 90+ percent of each eighth grade). That includes students who had percentile scores in the upper 90s and scores in the single digits. I don't know for sure how many there were who ran the table, but I'd guess between 12 and 20 over a dozen years.

Even at the most competitive schools, there are very few kids who have scored in the 95+ percentiles across the board. And, just as Harvard turns away more 2400s than they accept, many of those independent school applicants are not offered spots. The reason is that every school I've ever known will consider scores in the context of other attributes: sibling status, diversity, a potential all-American in soccer or basketball, a student whose acting prowess is nationally recognized as early as eighth grade, or a kid whose charm is simply off the charts. Those aren't "invented" examples: I've worked with all of those kids. Schools will also turn down kids who are very obnoxious, or who have very obnoxious parents, no matter the test scores. I've seen that too, unfortunately.

There are just so many factors, and I think we tend to reach for the false certainty implied by numbers, which are easily compared. (Obviously 50 is better than 40. But in the long run that difference doesn't really matter much, if at all, to an admission officer.) There is no formula.

Peter

_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to be uninformed, personal, or simply mean-spirited if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools, and I hope I can be helpful to some folks. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> arcpd <dot> com

Anonymous wrote:DS wants to change schools at the end of eighth grade. What is the best prep class/tutoring method for her? And how much time ahead should she start?

Thank you!!

October and December is a pretty reasonable schedule; your daughter can re-take if you're not thrilled with the October scores, but she doesn't have to register for December before you see the results of October, so you have time to think about it.

You might consider having her take the June administration for practice. Technically if she hasn't finished seventh grade she's supposed to take the Middle Level, but at that point it probably makes sense for her to take the Upper Level, since that's what she'll take come fall anyway.

The prep books are all pretty good as far as that goes; you might see if any of your neighbors or friends with older kids still have theirs. (I promise you they won't be using them anymore!), or you can get them at any decent bookstore. At the very least they'll give your daughter a very good idea of what kinds of questions appear on the tests, so she doesn't have to go in without that basic information.

There are also many effective tutors, ranging in price from ski-vacation expensive to second-mortgage expensive. I'd be happy to recommend some who have helped students improve their scores if you'd like to hit me offline — see below.

Peter

_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to be uninformed, personal, or simply mean-spirited if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools, and I hope I can be helpful to some folks. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> arcpd <dot> com

Anonymous wrote:Look at the percentile score.

+1

As somebody who's counseled hundreds of students applying, I find the percentiles most helpful. Remember that these tests are taken ONLY by kids applying to independent schools, so the percentiles will be out of whack compared to a national scale. Your child's 48th percentile would be closer to 80th in a national sample, but 48 is probably pretty valid in the pool of applicants with whom he or she is applying.

I would be careful about assuming there is a "minimum" score, or that very high scores always lead to admission. In my experience, it is simply not true that the most competitive schools won't admit kids with scores below the 50th percentile – but in those cases there are mitigating factors important to the school, including family associations, diversity, sports, truly outstanding teacher recommendations, and so forth.

I've seen several kids with every sub-score above the 95th percentile. I've seen a few with scores like that who were denied for various reasons that I understood. I've seen kids with scores ranging from the teens to the mid-40s who were admitted at some of the most competitive schools in DC. There is no formula that guarantees admission, but there are ways to put together an application that emphasize strengths and mitigate weaknesses. Ultimately, especially as you climb the grades toward high school, who your child is will be more important than his or her scores.

Peter

_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to be uninformed, personal, or simply mean-spirited if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools, and I hope I can be helpful to some folks. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> arcpd <dot> com

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are not in DC -- we are in NYC.

DD goes to a private day school like Sidwell here in Manhattan. Next year she will be a freshman and wants to play three sports - soccer, basketball and lacrosse. She has been playing all three in middle school but I think it will be too much in high school.

Anyone have a kid who play a sport every season?

I'm an academic teacher who also coaches a sport at a private day school. First, I would say "Hooray for your daughter!" Great that she loves sports so much. In terms of your question, for a kid who loves sports and recognizes that there will be some sacrifices of free time to balance academics and sports, it is very do-able. Many athletes have better GPAs in-season than out-of-season as playing a sport really forces them to be organized with their time. You can also take a bit of a wait-and-see approach -- she may find that after playing high school soccer in the fall she realizes HS sports/homework is more of a juggling act and that she wants to scale back and only play one other season. Or she may play three sports as a freshman/sophomore and drop one as the academic requirements ramp up junior year. I would encourage her to give it a try, while counseling her to be realistic and periodically self-check if she feels overloaded. The three sport athletes I have coached and taught tend to be active kids who love the decompression/stress-relief of their sport.

I worked in schools for a long time, and concur with the teacher's wisdom above. My own daughter is a HS senior who plays one sport, but it goes for almost three full seasons when club teams are figured in, and the more active she is in sports, the more focused she is at school. That's not to say that every student will find the same thing — I'd encourage you to observe and listen to your daughter and see how it's going, probably once each season. If she wants to take a season off, that may be very healthy. But I don't see any reason it can't be done by a student who wants to do it and who meets the challenge adeptly. (You don't sound like the kind of parent who's pushing her child to do that, but if a child's motivation in sports is really her parents' motivation, that's a different question...)

Peter
_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to be uninformed, personal, or simply mean-spirited if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools, and I hope I can be helpful to some folks. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> arcpd <dot> com

Anonymous wrote:^ that quote is taken out of context. They're taking about school rankings, not class rankings.

Good lord, totally right. I did that much too fast.

I think you'll find that most independent schools in this area do not compute class rank, as one or two other posters wrote.

Apologies.

1. Ask the schools to which you're applying if your proposed approach is okay with them. It won't matter much what the teacher does if a school won't accept it.

2. Assuming it's okay, ask the teacher to put the recommendation in an envelope from the school (i.e., one with the school's return address printed on it), and mail it directly to the admission office. It's common practice for those writing recommendations to initial or sign over the seal of the envelope to show that it hasn't been tampered with. It would be unusual for a parent to deliver a recommendation letter for her own child.

3. The scenario you cite may not matter that much unless a parent actually re-writes a letter of recommendation, which is outright fraud. Yes, the parent might see what the teacher writes, and that's not kosher, but actually changing the teacher's rec is another kettle of possum entirely.

4. Parents who waive their rights to see recommendations (and you should!) but then steam open the letters raise concerns above the pay grade herein represented.

_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to be uninformed, personal, or simply mean-spirited if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools, and I hope I can be helpful to some folks. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> arcpd <dot> com

From the NAIS Web site: The National Association of Independent Schools "is officially and staunchly opposed to school ranking systems."

_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to be uninformed, personal, or simply mean-spirited if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools, and I hope I can be helpful to some folks. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> arcpd <dot> com

Your son sounds like an ideal candidate for an independent school. He seems like a very typical seventh-grade boy.

Almost everything your kids learn about education will stick with them, and the earlier it happens the "stickier" it will be. My children's lives are very much affected by their earliest years in school.

I've worked in both K-8 and K-12 schools. Advantages of K-8 schools are that they're usually a little gentler in middle school; the MS program isn't driven (at least in part) by the Upper School, so it's more responsive to the needs of early adolescents; and the 8-to-9 transition is usually the perfect year to involve the student in that choice, since it's the year that most kids (boys, especially) become sufficiently self-aware to have meaningful input. One strong disadvantage is that your son will be in grade 8 next year, so he'd be making a transition in and out in the same year, which can be rough. Most K-8s are a little skeptical about incoming eighth graders for that reason.

The obvious advantage of a K-12 is that you don't have to make the decision and go through the process twice. If your son is definitely going to start in eighth grade, as much as I believe in K-8 schools I think this is probably your better option, though grade 8 is not an "entry year" for any independent schools, for the same reason as above. It's almost always easier to gain admission in grade 7 or 9.

That said, since he's young and behind the curve (such a nicer phrase than "immature, don't you think? LOL), have you considered your son's repeating seventh grade? Switching schools will mitigate most of the stigma attached, and the advantage of a little more confidence for a boy in middle school is hard to overstate.

For what it's worth, my wife and I both attended public schools; our kids did private schools for PK-8 and will both have attended MCPS for HS. (The older is graduating from HS this year; the younger will begin HS in the fall. The younger is a boy who repeated a grade.)

I hope that helps.
Peter

_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to be uninformed, personal, or simply mean-spirited if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools, and I hope I can be helpful to some folks. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> arcpd <dot> com