School Shooting in Michigan. 3 Teens DEAD. 1 15-yr old suspect in custody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There was a report that the disturbing drawing was “updated” after the teacher saw it and reported it, prior to the meeting with the parents. The school did many things right. Probably more things than most large HS’s in this country would’ve done. Teacher reported the note and the school admin called for urgent, immediate meeting with parents. But the drawing changed before the meeting and the enabling/head-in-the sand parents pushed back on taking kid home. He had no prior disciplinary issues.Where the school failed IMHO 1.) didn’t ask whether they had guns in their home that were currently accounted for and 2.) didn’t insist on searching kids backpack and locker before sending back to class.

I agree the families that lost their children should be compensated through the civil suits that will likely follow.I hope that monies will be found to outfit every HS with metal detectors to avoid future gun violence in schools. This HS did many things right but it still wasn’t enough to prevent this tragedy.

How do you deal with non-metal, 3D printed weapons and the like?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a report that the disturbing drawing was “updated” after the teacher saw it and reported it, prior to the meeting with the parents. The school did many things right. Probably more things than most large HS’s in this country would’ve done. Teacher reported the note and the school admin called for urgent, immediate meeting with parents. But the drawing changed before the meeting and the enabling/head-in-the sand parents pushed back on taking kid home. He had no prior disciplinary issues.Where the school failed IMHO 1.) didn’t ask whether they had guns in their home that were currently accounted for and 2.) didn’t insist on searching kids backpack and locker before sending back to class.

I agree the families that lost their children should be compensated through the civil suits that will likely follow.I hope that monies will be found to outfit every HS with metal detectors to avoid future gun violence in schools. This HS did many things right but it still wasn’t enough to prevent this tragedy.

How do you deal with non-metal, 3D printed weapons and the like?

Nice red herring. Remind the class how many multiple person school shootings have been carried out with 3D printed weapons again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There was a report that the disturbing drawing was “updated” after the teacher saw it and reported it, prior to the meeting with the parents. The school did many things right. Probably more things than most large HS’s in this country would’ve done. Teacher reported the note and the school admin called for urgent, immediate meeting with parents. But the drawing changed before the meeting and the enabling/head-in-the sand parents pushed back on taking kid home. He had no prior disciplinary issues.Where the school failed IMHO 1.) didn’t ask whether they had guns in their home that were currently accounted for and 2.) didn’t insist on searching kids backpack and locker before sending back to class.

I agree the families that lost their children should be compensated through the civil suits that will likely follow.I hope that monies will be found to outfit every HS with metal detectors to avoid future gun violence in schools. This HS did many things right but it still wasn’t enough to prevent this tragedy.

Doesn’t the standard risk assessment script for school include the question about whether there are weapons in the home/ available to the child? We were asked those questions once when a 1st grader told my dd that he was going to bring his dad’s pistol to school and shoot him. My son replied that he was going to bring his mom’s musket to school and shoot back. It was a long week, but we learned about the process whereby schools determine if a comment is a credible threat. There was a call with the assistant principal and she had a series of questions she asked us.

(And for the record I don’t own a musket- that was just the only gun name DA knew.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a report that the disturbing drawing was “updated” after the teacher saw it and reported it, prior to the meeting with the parents. The school did many things right. Probably more things than most large HS’s in this country would’ve done. Teacher reported the note and the school admin called for urgent, immediate meeting with parents. But the drawing changed before the meeting and the enabling/head-in-the sand parents pushed back on taking kid home. He had no prior disciplinary issues.Where the school failed IMHO 1.) didn’t ask whether they had guns in their home that were currently accounted for and 2.) didn’t insist on searching kids backpack and locker before sending back to class.

I agree the families that lost their children should be compensated through the civil suits that will likely follow.I hope that monies will be found to outfit every HS with metal detectors to avoid future gun violence in schools. This HS did many things right but it still wasn’t enough to prevent this tragedy.

How do you deal with non-metal, 3D printed weapons and the like?

Nice red herring. Remind the class how many multiple person school shootings have been carried out with 3D printed weapons again?

Ha! Just a matter of time. -our local high school made national news for mass shooting in the 80s before Columbine, metal detectors won’t help and now we have new ways to produce stuff at home; don’t be naive

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Such a horrible situation. After listening to the latest news on Channel 4 Detroit, I was struck by how similar the guidance counselors in this case compared to the police who stopped Brian Laundry and Gabby Petition. Only in this case, the counselors were presumably trained more in looking for warning signs associated with people on the verge.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2021/12/05/school-threat-investigations-in-wayne-county-lead-to-charges-against-7-minors/

Anyone think the counselor is the third person officials may charge? Or is it someone who aided the parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oxford High School has a full-time school resource officer, who is a sworn Oakland County sheriff's deputy. There was no need to "call the police," the resource officer literally has an office in the school, presumably mere feet from the principal's office where these meetings took place. The high school brass, for whatever reason, did not loop the deputy into any of this. That is pure negligence.

"Like many schools across the country, Oxford High School has a police officer assigned to patrol its halls and campus. On Tuesday, according to a law enforcement official, that deputy and a responding deputy disarmed and arrested a 15-year-old student."

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/11/30/oxford-high-shooting-police-school-liaison-officer/8813723002/

It’s clear a big lawsuit judgment against the district (and administration?) is bound to happen but I don’t understand who will pay. There’s no way this small exurban district has a $100mn policy — probably not even $20mn. Are the district’s taxpayers soaked with the lawsuit tab, i.e. they’re basically suing themselves if the judgment is higher than the insurance max coverage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Such a horrible situation. After listening to the latest news on Channel 4 Detroit, I was struck by how similar the guidance counselors in this case compared to the police who stopped Brian Laundry and Gabby Petition. Only in this case, the counselors were presumably trained more in looking for warning signs associated with people on the verge.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2021/12/05/school-threat-investigations-in-wayne-county-lead-to-charges-against-7-minors/

Anyone think the counselor is the third person officials may charge? Or is it someone who aided the parents?

My read is the sheriff’s dept and the prosecutor are too cowardly and politically motivated to charge any leaders at the school.

[Anonymous]

Metal detectors and turning high schools into prison is not going to fly. It’s an emotional overreaction. More teens are killed in car accidents to and from school and by opioids each year than the sum of all school shootings ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Such a horrible situation. After listening to the latest news on Channel 4 Detroit, I was struck by how similar the guidance counselors in this case compared to the police who stopped Brian Laundry and Gabby Petition. Only in this case, the counselors were presumably trained more in looking for warning signs associated with people on the verge.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2021/12/05/school-threat-investigations-in-wayne-county-lead-to-charges-against-7-minors/

Anyone think the counselor is the third person officials may charge? Or is it someone who aided the parents?

I read they are considering charging the person who helped the parents hide in the warehouse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oxford High School has a full-time school resource officer, who is a sworn Oakland County sheriff's deputy. There was no need to "call the police," the resource officer literally has an office in the school, presumably mere feet from the principal's office where these meetings took place. The high school brass, for whatever reason, did not loop the deputy into any of this. That is pure negligence.

"Like many schools across the country, Oxford High School has a police officer assigned to patrol its halls and campus. On Tuesday, according to a law enforcement official, that deputy and a responding deputy disarmed and arrested a 15-year-old student."

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/11/30/oxford-high-shooting-police-school-liaison-officer/8813723002/

It’s clear a big lawsuit judgment against the district (and administration?) is bound to happen but I don’t understand who will pay. There’s no way this small exurban district has a $100mn policy — probably not even $20mn. Are the district’s taxpayers soaked with the lawsuit tab, i.e. they’re basically suing themselves if the judgment is higher than the insurance max coverage?

Doesn’t the judge usually just give the insurance max in these cases?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a report that the disturbing drawing was “updated” after the teacher saw it and reported it, prior to the meeting with the parents. The school did many things right. Probably more things than most large HS’s in this country would’ve done. Teacher reported the note and the school admin called for urgent, immediate meeting with parents. But the drawing changed before the meeting and the enabling/head-in-the sand parents pushed back on taking kid home. He had no prior disciplinary issues.Where the school failed IMHO 1.) didn’t ask whether they had guns in their home that were currently accounted for and 2.) didn’t insist on searching kids backpack and locker before sending back to class.

I agree the families that lost their children should be compensated through the civil suits that will likely follow.I hope that monies will be found to outfit every HS with metal detectors to avoid future gun violence in schools. This HS did many things right but it still wasn’t enough to prevent this tragedy.

How do you deal with non-metal, 3D printed weapons and the like?

Nice red herring. Remind the class how many multiple person school shootings have been carried out with 3D printed weapons again?

Ha! Just a matter of time. -our local high school made national news for mass shooting in the 80s before Columbine, metal detectors won’t help and now we have new ways to produce stuff at home; don’t be naive

San Diego?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, every rationale possible is being used by the PPs in this thread to excuse the gun owners and their kid (the shooter) passing the blame to anyone else.

Not true. I blame:

The kid
The parents (maybe even more than the kid)
The school admin (for not calling police/searching the bag/sending the kid home)
The laws for giving this kid more rights than his fellow students.

I can blame many things at once. An absolutely tragedy that could have been prevented so many ways.

Tell me what rights this kid has that other kids do not. Name one.

You can't because this kid has no more rights than anyone else.

This kid has no more rights than any other kid. You sound like one of those insane anti-public school LCPS haters nutjobs. You are ignorant and don't understand the laws related to education. BTW if you are the same poster blaming IDEA and FAPE, YOU ARE AN IDIOT. FAPE AND IDEA have nothing to do with what happened with this kid and would not stop the school from sending the kid home.

So much ignorance posted here.

The push for the rights of troubled kids absolutely are the reason this kid was not told to go home with his parents. It’s the reason they were allowed to “decline” to take him home. And why the school didn’t search him. Schools searched lockers and bags all the time when we were kids. All they needed was an anonymous tip.

NP. How, precisely, is a school administrator supposed to force a parent to take a child home if that parent declines. Please explain with precision how that works both legally and logistically.

They can’t anymore. But year ago, they had a lot more leeway to suspend a student, and search them.

Okay then, years ago during this golden time that you think existed, how precisely would they have forced a parent to remove a child if the parent declined to take the child. You keep insisting there was a time when administration could do that. I want to know exactly that happened.

It’s already been answered. If the parents won’t, call 911. Danger to self and others. Trespassing. No parental consent required.

Hahahaha OMG. No, the police did not used to be at the heck and call of school administrators. What an idiot you are.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, every rationale possible is being used by the PPs in this thread to excuse the gun owners and their kid (the shooter) passing the blame to anyone else.

Not true. I blame:

The kid
The parents (maybe even more than the kid)
The school admin (for not calling police/searching the bag/sending the kid home)
The laws for giving this kid more rights than his fellow students.

I can blame many things at once. An absolutely tragedy that could have been prevented so many ways.

Tell me what rights this kid has that other kids do not. Name one.

You can't because this kid has no more rights than anyone else.

This kid has no more rights than any other kid. You sound like one of those insane anti-public school LCPS haters nutjobs. You are ignorant and don't understand the laws related to education. BTW if you are the same poster blaming IDEA and FAPE, YOU ARE AN IDIOT. FAPE AND IDEA have nothing to do with what happened with this kid and would not stop the school from sending the kid home.

So much ignorance posted here.

The push for the rights of troubled kids absolutely are the reason this kid was not told to go home with his parents. It’s the reason they were allowed to “decline” to take him home. And why the school didn’t search him. Schools searched lockers and bags all the time when we were kids. All they needed was an anonymous tip.

NP. How, precisely, is a school administrator supposed to force a parent to take a child home if that parent declines. Please explain with precision how that works both legally and logistically.

They can’t anymore. But year ago, they had a lot more leeway to suspend a student, and search them.

Okay then, years ago during this golden time that you think existed, how precisely would they have forced a parent to remove a child if the parent declined to take the child. You keep insisting there was a time when administration could do that. I want to know exactly that happened.

First of all, most parents didn't recuse a school's request. Also, parents knew they didn't really have the option to decline. "Ma'am, if you don't remove your son from the premises, we'll call the police; and you can pick him up at the station. Your choice."

The schools do not do that any more, and the trouble parents with the troubled kids know this - there is a ton of information out there about their loopholes, and they have read every single one of them. How is that helping them?? Hint: it is not, because this is exactly what ends up happening. Denial is not good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, every rationale possible is being used by the PPs in this thread to excuse the gun owners and their kid (the shooter) passing the blame to anyone else.

Not true. I blame:

The kid
The parents (maybe even more than the kid)
The school admin (for not calling police/searching the bag/sending the kid home)
The laws for giving this kid more rights than his fellow students.

I can blame many things at once. An absolutely tragedy that could have been prevented so many ways.

Tell me what rights this kid has that other kids do not. Name one.

You can't because this kid has no more rights than anyone else.

This kid has no more rights than any other kid. You sound like one of those insane anti-public school LCPS haters nutjobs. You are ignorant and don't understand the laws related to education. BTW if you are the same poster blaming IDEA and FAPE, YOU ARE AN IDIOT. FAPE AND IDEA have nothing to do with what happened with this kid and would not stop the school from sending the kid home.

So much ignorance posted here.

The push for the rights of troubled kids absolutely are the reason this kid was not told to go home with his parents. It’s the reason they were allowed to “decline” to take him home. And why the school didn’t search him. Schools searched lockers and bags all the time when we were kids. All they needed was an anonymous tip.

+1

Exactly this. But the troubled parents of the troubled kids know they don't have to comply, so they don't, which is exactly why we have school shootings. It has nothing to do with anything else. Bottom line: loopholes allow the school to be shot up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of shocking aspects of this story. But for me the most painful/unbelievable/horrible is how a child wrote “help me” on a note, and the parents didn’t help or react or anything. As a parent, I just don’t get it.

x1000000

People like this are not parents, or even human, they are selfish animals.