Q re: the wisdom behind FERPA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP

And there is always the option of Unsubsidized Stafford Loans, PP, even if the parent won't give the information to fill out the FAFSA. Or work-study. Or having the conversation with people who are paying the tuition (the parents) on how to establish the accountability, such as waiving FERPA formally.

It doesn't matter that students are considered dependents for financial reasons. They still have rights to privacy, and they have other options. None of this establishes the point you think it does.

DP. Of course it does! The college cartel wants to have the cake and eat it too. That IS the point. Why not treat all students as independent for all purposes?.. you know.. FERPA. But no. They want to make sure parents are responsible for paying for college AND want to make those same parents jump through hoops to get basic information. All while paying zero taxes and most of the senior staff enjoying 2-4 hours of productive work each day, high salaries relative to their peers in industry, and fantastic job security.

I'll say it again -- money doesn't buy away rights. They are not attached to each other.

If you pay another adult's medical bills, even if they are your dependent on tax forms, that does not mean you get the right to view their medical information without consent. That's not the doctor's office's "having their cake and eating it too" -- that's just how rights work in this country.

[Anonymous]

PS: PP, just don't pay if you don't want to have to negotiate with the student about access to records. Just. Don't. Pay.

The student can get an unsubsidized federal loan, or do work-study, or figure something else out. You are not being forced to pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP

And there is always the option of Unsubsidized Stafford Loans, PP, even if the parent won't give the information to fill out the FAFSA. Or work-study. Or having the conversation with people who are paying the tuition (the parents) on how to establish the accountability, such as waiving FERPA formally.

It doesn't matter that students are considered dependents for financial reasons. They still have rights to privacy, and they have other options. None of this establishes the point you think it does.

DP. Of course it does! The college cartel wants to have the cake and eat it too. That IS the point. Why not treat all students as independent for all purposes?.. you know.. FERPA. But no. They want to make sure parents are responsible for paying for college AND want to make those same parents jump through hoops to get basic information. All while paying zero taxes and most of the senior staff enjoying 2-4 hours of productive work each day, high salaries relative to their peers in industry, and fantastic job security.

You are like the college version of the “Q” nuts. The “college cartel”. Lol. They are all out to get YOU. But you figured it out. You and you alone.

[Anonymous]

It's not difficult to make your kid sign the FERPA releases. If you forget to make them do it in 12th grade, make them do it before you give them tuition money and/or tax documents.

I think most parents are just totally oblivious this is even an option. And the college doesn't even inform parents it's an option which is super sketchy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not difficult to make your kid sign the FERPA releases. If you forget to make them do it in 12th grade, make them do it before you give them tuition money and/or tax documents.

I think most parents are just totally oblivious this is even an option. And the college doesn't even inform parents it's an option which is super sketchy.

Not sure what college you’re talking about but my kid’s college sent MULTIPLE emails about the FERPA waiver (in the same emails about the e-billing system). It also came up in the parent info session for parents of rising freshmen. They encouraged kids to sign it, even.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not difficult to make your kid sign the FERPA releases. If you forget to make them do it in 12th grade, make them do it before you give them tuition money and/or tax documents.

I think most parents are just totally oblivious this is even an option. And the college doesn't even inform parents it's an option which is super sketchy.

The parents aren't applying for admission. The students are, and there is a lot of information given about this (and at the parent part of orientation -- see the OP's first post).

That being said, which college or university doesn't have this information readily accessible online? Most I've looked at have referenced it in the financial aid section, too. It's made clear.

At some point, it's incumbent on adults not to assume and to, you know, look. Money doesn't waive rights in any other are of US life, does it? Why would it here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not difficult to make your kid sign the FERPA releases. If you forget to make them do it in 12th grade, make them do it before you give them tuition money and/or tax documents.

I think most parents are just totally oblivious this is even an option. And the college doesn't even inform parents it's an option which is super sketchy.

Not sure what college you’re talking about but my kid’s college sent MULTIPLE emails about the FERPA waiver (in the same emails about the e-billing system). It also came up in the parent info session for parents of rising freshmen. They encouraged kids to sign it, even.

What college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP

And there is always the option of Unsubsidized Stafford Loans, PP, even if the parent won't give the information to fill out the FAFSA. Or work-study. Or having the conversation with people who are paying the tuition (the parents) on how to establish the accountability, such as waiving FERPA formally.

It doesn't matter that students are considered dependents for financial reasons. They still have rights to privacy, and they have other options. None of this establishes the point you think it does.

DP. Of course it does! The college cartel wants to have the cake and eat it too. That IS the point. Why not treat all students as independent for all purposes?.. you know.. FERPA. But no. They want to make sure parents are responsible for paying for college AND want to make those same parents jump through hoops to get basic information. All while paying zero taxes and most of the senior staff enjoying 2-4 hours of productive work each day, high salaries relative to their peers in industry, and fantastic job security.

I'll say it again -- money doesn't buy away rights. They are not attached to each other.

If you pay another adult's medical bills, even if they are your dependent on tax forms, that does not mean you get the right to view their medical information without consent. That's not the doctor's office's "having their cake and eating it too" -- that's just how rights work in this country.

LOL. Thanks for making my point. Shouldn't it though? This is like saying, you have to pay for food at a very expensive restaurant and they will decide what to feed, when to feed and whom to feed in exchange for your money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP

And there is always the option of Unsubsidized Stafford Loans, PP, even if the parent won't give the information to fill out the FAFSA. Or work-study. Or having the conversation with people who are paying the tuition (the parents) on how to establish the accountability, such as waiving FERPA formally.

It doesn't matter that students are considered dependents for financial reasons. They still have rights to privacy, and they have other options. None of this establishes the point you think it does.

DP. Of course it does! The college cartel wants to have the cake and eat it too. That IS the point. Why not treat all students as independent for all purposes?.. you know.. FERPA. But no. They want to make sure parents are responsible for paying for college AND want to make those same parents jump through hoops to get basic information. All while paying zero taxes and most of the senior staff enjoying 2-4 hours of productive work each day, high salaries relative to their peers in industry, and fantastic job security.

I'll say it again -- money doesn't buy away rights. They are not attached to each other.

If you pay another adult's medical bills, even if they are your dependent on tax forms, that does not mean you get the right to view their medical information without consent. That's not the doctor's office's "having their cake and eating it too" -- that's just how rights work in this country.

LOL. Thanks for making my point. Shouldn't it though? This is like saying, you have to pay for food at a very expensive restaurant and they will decide what to feed, when to feed and whom to feed in exchange for your money.

... why would you think there is a legal right to privacy about what food you order in a US restaurant?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you’re more of a helicopter parent than you realize. I’m guessing you’re paying for all or most of college and that’s why you feel entitled?

I graduated from college in the mid-aughts, and I was a true adult. I paid my own tuition and rent with money I made working (attended a very cheap in-state, probably one of the last places in America where this is still possible without major loans or grants). Nothing about college was any of my parents’ business and they certainly had no entitlement to information from the school.

Maybe instead of worrying so much about the fact that FERPA recognizes that your children are adults, you should worry more about the fact that you do not.

And I get it. Since you have the wealth to pay for college, the system puts you in this role of still being “daddy” for check-writing purposes. But if your wealth has, to date, emotionally stunted your children to the point that you really do not believe they are independent and autonomous adults (clearly happens, see the threads about college freshman who don’t even have their own checking accounts) maybe you should ask them to take a gap year and come back when they are truly adults.

I don't think you learned much in college. You don't seem to realize that the chip on your shoulder is blocking your view of most kids' college experiences. Most kids have parental help paying for college expenses. It is not unreasonable for a parent to want information about the outcomes related to those expenses. My parents paid 100% of my tuition, room and board, expenses and spending money while I was in college. Of course I would not begrudge them the ability to know how I was doing with that support. When you mature perhaps you'll understand more about things like this.

I don’t have a chip on my shoulder at all, why would I have a chip about being a true adult when I was, in fact, an adult?

And of course “most kids” do not have rich parents bankrolling the college experience for them. That’s your DCUM bubble.

Weird. We have 5 kids who have just graduated college or are in college now. Of the hundreds of people those 5 kids are friends with I cannot think of a single one who isn't getting some sort of financial assistance from their parents. That isn't a DCUM bubble, it is a fact.

It is more normative for a child to have parental financial support paying for college than it is to be fully responsible for the payment oneself. According to Sallie Mae only 34% of students borrow money, and that borrowed money accounts for only 13% of their total expenditures. In other words, the child paying 100% of college expenses him/herself is the outlier.

Please do yourself and the rest of us a world of good by educating yourself before you post. When you post such foolishness you make yourself look bad and you bring down the rest of us with you.

You realize that kids without rich parents get aid right

Jesus you don’t even understand what the data you’re citing to means and then you tell me to educate me

NP. Are not many of these aid packages included with a Parent Plus loan that the parents are responsible for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP

And there is always the option of Unsubsidized Stafford Loans, PP, even if the parent won't give the information to fill out the FAFSA. Or work-study. Or having the conversation with people who are paying the tuition (the parents) on how to establish the accountability, such as waiving FERPA formally.

It doesn't matter that students are considered dependents for financial reasons. They still have rights to privacy, and they have other options. None of this establishes the point you think it does.

DP. Of course it does! The college cartel wants to have the cake and eat it too. That IS the point. Why not treat all students as independent for all purposes?.. you know.. FERPA. But no. They want to make sure parents are responsible for paying for college AND want to make those same parents jump through hoops to get basic information. All while paying zero taxes and most of the senior staff enjoying 2-4 hours of productive work each day, high salaries relative to their peers in industry, and fantastic job security.

I'll say it again -- money doesn't buy away rights. They are not attached to each other.

If you pay another adult's medical bills, even if they are your dependent on tax forms, that does not mean you get the right to view their medical information without consent. That's not the doctor's office's "having their cake and eating it too" -- that's just how rights work in this country.

LOL. Thanks for making my point. Shouldn't it though? This is like saying, you have to pay for food at a very expensive restaurant and they will decide what to feed, when to feed and whom to feed in exchange for your money.

This may be the worst analogy I have seen in a while. Privacy rights are nothing like your rights in a restaurant. And guess what? At many very expensive restaurants, they do "decide what to feed, when to feed and whom to feed". So you fail twice.

As for your question as to whether money should be able to buy away rights, "Shouldn't it though?" Here is the answer:

NO!

We had a war over this back in the day. Very ironic you posted such drivel on 7/4. Shameful and un-American, actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have a son starting college in the fall (large state flagship).

At all the parent orientation sessions this summer, the university staff repeatedly emphasize FERPA again and again. It's as if they live in fear of getting in trouble for violating this statute. I'm new to learning about this statute, but it seems extreme in protecting the privacy of the student. I'm definitely not a helicopter dad in any way, but this law seems kind of like overkill.

As a jaded lawyer, I am kind of asking myself why this statute exists, if the university staff acknowledge that it's not ideal to have such a strict law that only makes the parents aware of things if they are really really bad.

What prompted the enactment of this statute in the first place? And have universities ever questioned the law (and tried to lobby Congress to change it), or do they just live in fear of violating it?

Our laws should have legitimate purposes, and if not, we should try to amend them.

They don't want crazy, over-involved parent harassing them on a regular basis.

[Anonymous]

Crazy to me that so many people want the school to force students to allow parents to helicopter instead of just working it out with their adult children. This is so solveable. Get the information from your kids. If you can’t, pull the funding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP

And there is always the option of Unsubsidized Stafford Loans, PP, even if the parent won't give the information to fill out the FAFSA. Or work-study. Or having the conversation with people who are paying the tuition (the parents) on how to establish the accountability, such as waiving FERPA formally.

It doesn't matter that students are considered dependents for financial reasons. They still have rights to privacy, and they have other options. None of this establishes the point you think it does.

DP. Of course it does! The college cartel wants to have the cake and eat it too. That IS the point. Why not treat all students as independent for all purposes?.. you know.. FERPA. But no. They want to make sure parents are responsible for paying for college AND want to make those same parents jump through hoops to get basic information. All while paying zero taxes and most of the senior staff enjoying 2-4 hours of productive work each day, high salaries relative to their peers in industry, and fantastic job security.

I'll say it again -- money doesn't buy away rights. They are not attached to each other.

If you pay another adult's medical bills, even if they are your dependent on tax forms, that does not mean you get the right to view their medical information without consent. That's not the doctor's office's "having their cake and eating it too" -- that's just how rights work in this country.

LOL. Thanks for making my point. Shouldn't it though? This is like saying, you have to pay for food at a very expensive restaurant and they will decide what to feed, when to feed and whom to feed in exchange for your money.

Nobody is making you pay for anything, PP. There are others options listed multiple times in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you’re more of a helicopter parent than you realize. I’m guessing you’re paying for all or most of college and that’s why you feel entitled?

I graduated from college in the mid-aughts, and I was a true adult. I paid my own tuition and rent with money I made working (attended a very cheap in-state, probably one of the last places in America where this is still possible without major loans or grants). Nothing about college was any of my parents’ business and they certainly had no entitlement to information from the school.

Maybe instead of worrying so much about the fact that FERPA recognizes that your children are adults, you should worry more about the fact that you do not.

And I get it. Since you have the wealth to pay for college, the system puts you in this role of still being “daddy” for check-writing purposes. But if your wealth has, to date, emotionally stunted your children to the point that you really do not believe they are independent and autonomous adults (clearly happens, see the threads about college freshman who don’t even have their own checking accounts) maybe you should ask them to take a gap year and come back when they are truly adults.

I don't think you learned much in college. You don't seem to realize that the chip on your shoulder is blocking your view of most kids' college experiences. Most kids have parental help paying for college expenses. It is not unreasonable for a parent to want information about the outcomes related to those expenses. My parents paid 100% of my tuition, room and board, expenses and spending money while I was in college. Of course I would not begrudge them the ability to know how I was doing with that support. When you mature perhaps you'll understand more about things like this.

DP. Perhaps when you mature enough to realize that the schools can't be responsible for deciphering which students are paying their own way and which have parental help, you'll understand more about things like this. If you are paying for all that for your kid and can't get access to their information, that's on you.