Lonely, Empty Marriage After Dead MIL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I reported the gotcha bully and every post that was derailing this.

OP, I feel for you. It's a tough situation.

I was surprised when you said you stopped couples therapy because husband was spinning web of lies. I guess I think that's where he's staerting- those are the things he believes. So you have to go into therapy to come to a mutual understanding of your life together. It would take time for him to get there. I think couples therapy is not a terrible idea, but it would take a LONG time.

During that time, you can start making your plans.. Those plans should include individual therapy. If nothing else, figuring out how to drop the anger at your husband would be productive. It's warranted, but just like the bully, it does you no good to stew about his lies 8 years ago. That happened, and here's where you are.

I am also curious why DH still wants to be married to you. There must be something there. And like another asked, what kind of daad is he? Does he actively love his kids? (how is he when he is around his family?). Does he coach soccer or whatever and help with special needs kid?

If you got pregnant quickly, and have bene together about 8 years, your kids are roughly 7 or so. I'd imagine 12 or som might be enough for kids to be able to understand what is going on and express their own preferences for custody.

so, I'd advise a 5 year plan. Can you tough this out for 5 years? What do you need to do to make it for 5 years and be in a good position to divorce at that point. stick to that.

+1 to this.

I am curious - what is your husband's reaction when you confront him on his relative's racism? Does he acknowledge it? He sounds like kind of a mess - any chance he would GIVE you full custody? Whatever you do, I'd find a lawyer that has fought a nasty custody battle and work towards a plan with him/her. Unless things change and you regain affection for your husband I don't think it's fair to or healthy for you to remain in this marriage for the next 12 years.

OP here. The man will literally lie to my face and tell me he didn’t hear racist things his parents said loudly right in front of him. He will admit everything only under massive duress, such as when I told his parents they weren’t allowed over anymore and he cried for a week telling me they’d all change. He confessed everything then and said that he just hadn’t known what to do about them. Any respect I had left for him was gone after that.

You seem very resentful. I understand the need to protect your kid and would have taken the same approach of cutting off the in-laws. I think you married this person and have kids with this person for a reason. If he shared his parents attitude you would not be living as husband and wife.

You need to communicate with your spouse. Perhaps therapy can get you to the point where you aren't always communicating from an angry space. I think your relationship can actually be healed but you have to want to try and next your husband has to be willing to listen. 2020 alone presented several opportunities for discussion about race and how hurtful words can be. Sometimes sharing those things and allow people to empathize can help. Perhaps a change of scenery can heal your relationship. Moving away from the toxicity can help.

If you divorce I guarantee you your children will be exposed to more of those comments than they are now.

Wishing you all the luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I recommend some therapy for you.

I am also a minority woman married to a non-minority man. To me it sounds like you have so much bitterness about this that even if both ILs die and are no longer an issue you’ll continue to hold it against your husband. Could there be deeper issues there, regarding your expectations for him to protect and stand up for you? I agree with you that he sounds conflict averse and avoidant BUT I also think you holding onto this with so much anger and bitterness is not helping you or him. You might both need counseling, but I’d start with you so that you have a change to process what it is you need from him. It is hard to be in a marriage with someone who doesn’t acknowledge your feelings, on the flip side it is hard to be married to someone who doesn’t let you make amends and move on. If you get divorced you don’t want to take baggage with you . Good luck.

I'm not OP. But I don't get posts like these. OF COURSE she expects him to stand up for her and, more importantly, his kids. She doesn't need therapy to "fix" that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I recommend some therapy for you.

I am also a minority woman married to a non-minority man. To me it sounds like you have so much bitterness about this that even if both ILs die and are no longer an issue you’ll continue to hold it against your husband. Could there be deeper issues there, regarding your expectations for him to protect and stand up for you? I agree with you that he sounds conflict averse and avoidant BUT I also think you holding onto this with so much anger and bitterness is not helping you or him. You might both need counseling, but I’d start with you so that you have a change to process what it is you need from him. It is hard to be in a marriage with someone who doesn’t acknowledge your feelings, on the flip side it is hard to be married to someone who doesn’t let you make amends and move on. If you get divorced you don’t want to take baggage with you . Good luck.

I'm not OP. But I don't get posts like these. OF COURSE she expects him to stand up for her and, more importantly, his kids. She doesn't need therapy to "fix" that.

+1000. Like duh she expected her husband to stand up against racism towards his family!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I hear you. Could you document the racism in DH's social/family circles? Does anyone here think that would help/ensure a full custody arrangement?

I have A LOT of documentation. Over the years, I started writing his parents e-mails raising their racist comments with them. I also got copies of racist things they wrote about me. Not to mention so many other examples that aren't documented. But even then, nothing is guaranteed as far as custody goes. Lawyers I've consulted have told me that family court turns on the judge you get. Some white Boomer judge who is himself someone's racist in law might rule that DH has learned his lesson and can be trusted to share custody. Right now, with DH's relatives banned from the house and any FT conversations happening with my earshot, my children are safe. No more comments about how the boy has to be watched before his "other side" kicks in and he steals something. No more comments about my toddler daughter showing "slutty" tendencies. I kid you not. These people have said that and worse about my children while my husband did nothing. I will never forgive him, but I have to be pragmatic.

YOU are your children's first and best advocate, YOU. There's no way in hell I'd stay married to him. It's one thing for his parents to be racist, it's another for him to not stand up for his own children. You are not doing your children any favors by staying in this marriage. What will they think of you when learn of the choice you made to stay in this marriage?? And they will find out, for sure. You staying in this marriage isn't being "pragmatic," it's being stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Living separate lives never gets better, only more distant. I’m flummoxed you wouldn’t divorce in this situation. Surely it’s better for your children to grown up with a loving relationship modeled for them.

OP here. One additional factor weighing against divorce for me is that while we're together, I get to regulate who is around my children. DH's family is so trashy, hateful, racist and DH is so weak and ineffectual that he has and will continue to stand by while those animals are racist towards my children. Short of fighting him for full custody, which is not guaranteed, divorcing him would just mean my kids are exposed to his family with no one to protect them. I don't want to save myself at their expense.

I am a black woman, raised by a single mother (who was divorced) and now married to a spouse whose parents were married but didn’t seem to get along for years and tolerated each other. So I feel like I relate to your post in many ways: I grew up with a parent who chose to divorce rather than stay in a bad marriage “for the sake of the kids,” my spouse’s parents chose the opposite, and I’m black so I get the race thing, and I also have a kid and sometimes think about what divorce would mean in terms of sharing custody.

Were it not for your husbands complete inability to stand up for his children’s identities to his family’s racism,I would absolutely say to divorce because it’s better to model happiness alone than misery stay together. But I think it’ll be much more damaging to their psyche long term to have them spend half of their time with a racist family and a father who either doesn’t defend them or who believes the same than it would be to grow up with parents who show no affection to each other. So I’d suggest that you get individual and may couples therapy to figure out how to tolerate each other without resentment until they are in high school, when they can really choose who they want to live with, and then divorce.

OP here. You totally get it. Right now, my children are too little to protect themselves. The oldest is only in second grade. Once they're old enough to stand up for themselves or refuse to see the trash on DH's side of the family instead of being taken against their will, I'm so done with DH. But there are years and years before that happens and I'm just trying to figure out how to get through long days looking at this man. I feel as if he suckered me into what he KNEW would be a toxic dynamic and then helped bully me. Valentine's Day just passed and I actually had trouble looking at him because I was so angry at how this is my life. No love, no romance, just married on the books and rearing children together.

He may have suckered you into it, but you are choosing to stay in it. You have choices.

[Anonymous]

OP you are planning full custody with twins and a SN child? That’s going to be very very hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I hear you. Could you document the racism in DH's social/family circles? Does anyone here think that would help/ensure a full custody arrangement?

I have A LOT of documentation. Over the years, I started writing his parents e-mails raising their racist comments with them. I also got copies of racist things they wrote about me. Not to mention so many other examples that aren't documented. But even then, nothing is guaranteed as far as custody goes. Lawyers I've consulted have told me that family court turns on the judge you get. Some white Boomer judge who is himself someone's racist in law might rule that DH has learned his lesson and can be trusted to share custody. Right now, with DH's relatives banned from the house and any FT conversations happening with my earshot, my children are safe. No more comments about how the boy has to be watched before his "other side" kicks in and he steals something. No more comments about my toddler daughter showing "slutty" tendencies. I kid you not. These people have said that and worse about my children while my husband did nothing. I will never forgive him, but I have to be pragmatic.

YOU are your children's first and best advocate, YOU. There's no way in hell I'd stay married to him. It's one thing for his parents to be racist, it's another for him to not stand up for his own children. You are not doing your children any favors by staying in this marriage. What will they think of you when learn of the choice you made to stay in this marriage?? And they will find out, for sure. You staying in this marriage isn't being "pragmatic," it's being stupid.

OP, tge above poster is white and has no idea what your children could face if left alone with your husband. You’re doing the right thing. Dealing with racism is hard. The people like the above poster who choose “not to see race” are exhausting. You’re doing the right thing to protect your children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I recommend some therapy for you.

I am also a minority woman married to a non-minority man. To me it sounds like you have so much bitterness about this that even if both ILs die and are no longer an issue you’ll continue to hold it against your husband. Could there be deeper issues there, regarding your expectations for him to protect and stand up for you? I agree with you that he sounds conflict averse and avoidant BUT I also think you holding onto this with so much anger and bitterness is not helping you or him. You might both need counseling, but I’d start with you so that you have a change to process what it is you need from him. It is hard to be in a marriage with someone who doesn’t acknowledge your feelings, on the flip side it is hard to be married to someone who doesn’t let you make amends and move on. If you get divorced you don’t want to take baggage with you . Good luck.

What the hell is a "non-minority" man? You need to take your silly terminology and bad advice somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Living separate lives never gets better, only more distant. I’m flummoxed you wouldn’t divorce in this situation. Surely it’s better for your children to grown up with a loving relationship modeled for them.

OP here. One additional factor weighing against divorce for me is that while we're together, I get to regulate who is around my children. DH's family is so trashy, hateful, racist and DH is so weak and ineffectual that he has and will continue to stand by while those animals are racist towards my children. Short of fighting him for full custody, which is not guaranteed, divorcing him would just mean my kids are exposed to his family with no one to protect them. I don't want to save myself at their expense.

NP here. I am so relating to this, as I stay with my DH for similar reasons...and the parallels go al the way to meeting a divorce attorney in feb 2020, too. I am not of a different race, but my main source of disgust and horror is the racism that was unleashed during the Trump era...and the main reason I stay is he cause I know that he self regulates around me. So he will never say the n-word around our kid, never cross that line, because he knows I will be gone that money. But if I leave him, I will be the enemy, and he will feel free to let his misogyny and racism be expressed at full volume. In fact it will likely be his mission to expose our son as much as possible to it, for amusement. To get my goat.

So that’s why I justify staying. But as I read your post I also want to scream for you to get out so your kids don’t see you compromising like this. So they don’t see you living this half life. So they see your strength. I can see it more clearly in your story than my own.

OP here. So many of us are in this situation for different reasons. People think divorce solves everything, but all divorce does is save the adults from a bad situation. As long as the kids are minors, they still have to deal with the ex you left behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I reported the gotcha bully and every post that was derailing this.

OP, I feel for you. It's a tough situation.

I was surprised when you said you stopped couples therapy because husband was spinning web of lies. I guess I think that's where he's staerting- those are the things he believes. So you have to go into therapy to come to a mutual understanding of your life together. It would take time for him to get there. I think couples therapy is not a terrible idea, but it would take a LONG time.

During that time, you can start making your plans.. Those plans should include individual therapy. If nothing else, figuring out how to drop the anger at your husband would be productive. It's warranted, but just like the bully, it does you no good to stew about his lies 8 years ago. That happened, and here's where you are.

I am also curious why DH still wants to be married to you. There must be something there. And like another asked, what kind of daad is he? Does he actively love his kids? (how is he when he is around his family?). Does he coach soccer or whatever and help with special needs kid?

If you got pregnant quickly, and have bene together about 8 years, your kids are roughly 7 or so. I'd imagine 12 or som might be enough for kids to be able to understand what is going on and express their own preferences for custody.

so, I'd advise a 5 year plan. Can you tough this out for 5 years? What do you need to do to make it for 5 years and be in a good position to divorce at that point. stick to that.

+1 to this.

I am curious - what is your husband's reaction when you confront him on his relative's racism? Does he acknowledge it? He sounds like kind of a mess - any chance he would GIVE you full custody? Whatever you do, I'd find a lawyer that has fought a nasty custody battle and work towards a plan with him/her. Unless things change and you regain affection for your husband I don't think it's fair to or healthy for you to remain in this marriage for the next 12 years.

OP here. The man will literally lie to my face and tell me he didn’t hear racist things his parents said loudly right in front of him. He will admit everything only under massive duress, such as when I told his parents they weren’t allowed over anymore and he cried for a week telling me they’d all change. He confessed everything then and said that he just hadn’t known what to do about them. Any respect I had left for him was gone after that.

You seem very resentful. I understand the need to protect your kid and would have taken the same approach of cutting off the in-laws. I think you married this person and have kids with this person for a reason. If he shared his parents attitude you would not be living as husband and wife.

You need to communicate with your spouse. Perhaps therapy can get you to the point where you aren't always communicating from an angry space. I think your relationship can actually be healed but you have to want to try and next your husband has to be willing to listen. 2020 alone presented several opportunities for discussion about race and how hurtful words can be. Sometimes sharing those things and allow people to empathize can help. Perhaps a change of scenery can heal your relationship. Moving away from the toxicity can help.

If you divorce I guarantee you your children will be exposed to more of those comments than they are now.

Wishing you all the luck.

OP here. I appreciate your advice. I do need to process a lot of anger. I'm glad people have brought up Trump and George Floyd because it was really hard dealing with these in laws with the Trump era as a backdrop. I'm really upset and hurt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I reported the gotcha bully and every post that was derailing this.

OP, I feel for you. It's a tough situation.

I was surprised when you said you stopped couples therapy because husband was spinning web of lies. I guess I think that's where he's staerting- those are the things he believes. So you have to go into therapy to come to a mutual understanding of your life together. It would take time for him to get there. I think couples therapy is not a terrible idea, but it would take a LONG time.

During that time, you can start making your plans.. Those plans should include individual therapy. If nothing else, figuring out how to drop the anger at your husband would be productive. It's warranted, but just like the bully, it does you no good to stew about his lies 8 years ago. That happened, and here's where you are.

I am also curious why DH still wants to be married to you. There must be something there. And like another asked, what kind of daad is he? Does he actively love his kids? (how is he when he is around his family?). Does he coach soccer or whatever and help with special needs kid?

If you got pregnant quickly, and have bene together about 8 years, your kids are roughly 7 or so. I'd imagine 12 or som might be enough for kids to be able to understand what is going on and express their own preferences for custody.

so, I'd advise a 5 year plan. Can you tough this out for 5 years? What do you need to do to make it for 5 years and be in a good position to divorce at that point. stick to that.

+1 to this.

I am curious - what is your husband's reaction when you confront him on his relative's racism? Does he acknowledge it? He sounds like kind of a mess - any chance he would GIVE you full custody? Whatever you do, I'd find a lawyer that has fought a nasty custody battle and work towards a plan with him/her. Unless things change and you regain affection for your husband I don't think it's fair to or healthy for you to remain in this marriage for the next 12 years.

OP here. The man will literally lie to my face and tell me he didn’t hear racist things his parents said loudly right in front of him. He will admit everything only under massive duress, such as when I told his parents they weren’t allowed over anymore and he cried for a week telling me they’d all change. He confessed everything then and said that he just hadn’t known what to do about them. Any respect I had left for him was gone after that.

Wow. Yeah. The black poster with the 5 year plan is the best advice I've seen so far. Stay strong against the IL's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I hear you. Could you document the racism in DH's social/family circles? Does anyone here think that would help/ensure a full custody arrangement?

I have A LOT of documentation. Over the years, I started writing his parents e-mails raising their racist comments with them. I also got copies of racist things they wrote about me. Not to mention so many other examples that aren't documented. But even then, nothing is guaranteed as far as custody goes. Lawyers I've consulted have told me that family court turns on the judge you get. Some white Boomer judge who is himself someone's racist in law might rule that DH has learned his lesson and can be trusted to share custody. Right now, with DH's relatives banned from the house and any FT conversations happening with my earshot, my children are safe. No more comments about how the boy has to be watched before his "other side" kicks in and he steals something. No more comments about my toddler daughter showing "slutty" tendencies. I kid you not. These people have said that and worse about my children while my husband did nothing. I will never forgive him, but I have to be pragmatic.

YOU are your children's first and best advocate, YOU. There's no way in hell I'd stay married to him. It's one thing for his parents to be racist, it's another for him to not stand up for his own children. You are not doing your children any favors by staying in this marriage. What will they think of you when learn of the choice you made to stay in this marriage?? And they will find out, for sure. You staying in this marriage isn't being "pragmatic," it's being stupid.

OP, tge above poster is white and has no idea what your children could face if left alone with your husband. You’re doing the right thing. Dealing with racism is hard. The people like the above poster who choose “not to see race” are exhausting. You’re doing the right thing to protect your children.

Wrong, lady. I'm biracial, just like her children. One black parent, one white. You people kill me thinking you know everything about every poster. It's laughable.

Staying with a racist is NOT protecting her children. Her husband clearly has an issue with blackness which is why he has refused to stand up to his own family to defend it. And proximity to blackness (like marrying a black person) does not exclude him from being racist. How do you stay married to man who is unwilling to protect his own children?? My father would never allow a racist to talk about me and not defend me. Never. Hell, even Harry had the balls to leave the royal family!

She's better off without him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I hear you. Could you document the racism in DH's social/family circles? Does anyone here think that would help/ensure a full custody arrangement?

I have A LOT of documentation. Over the years, I started writing his parents e-mails raising their racist comments with them. I also got copies of racist things they wrote about me. Not to mention so many other examples that aren't documented. But even then, nothing is guaranteed as far as custody goes. Lawyers I've consulted have told me that family court turns on the judge you get. Some white Boomer judge who is himself someone's racist in law might rule that DH has learned his lesson and can be trusted to share custody. Right now, with DH's relatives banned from the house and any FT conversations happening with my earshot, my children are safe. No more comments about how the boy has to be watched before his "other side" kicks in and he steals something. No more comments about my toddler daughter showing "slutty" tendencies. I kid you not. These people have said that and worse about my children while my husband did nothing. I will never forgive him, but I have to be pragmatic.

YOU are your children's first and best advocate, YOU. There's no way in hell I'd stay married to him. It's one thing for his parents to be racist, it's another for him to not stand up for his own children. You are not doing your children any favors by staying in this marriage. What will they think of you when learn of the choice you made to stay in this marriage?? And they will find out, for sure. You staying in this marriage isn't being "pragmatic," it's being stupid.

OP, tge above poster is white and has no idea what your children could face if left alone with your husband. You’re doing the right thing. Dealing with racism is hard. The people like the above poster who choose “not to see race” are exhausting. You’re doing the right thing to protect your children.

Wrong, lady. I'm biracial, just like her children. One black parent, one white. You people kill me thinking you know everything about every poster. It's laughable.

Staying with a racist is NOT protecting her children. Her husband clearly has an issue with blackness which is why he has refused to stand up to his own family to defend it. And proximity to blackness (like marrying a black person) does not exclude him from being racist. How do you stay married to man who is unwilling to protect his own children?? My father would never allow a racist to talk about me and not defend me. Never. Hell, even Harry had the balls to leave the royal family!

She's better off without him.

Yes, SHE is better off...but her children still have to deal with it all. If she leaves, who can look out for them at daddy’s family get togethers? Think!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I hear you. Could you document the racism in DH's social/family circles? Does anyone here think that would help/ensure a full custody arrangement?

I have A LOT of documentation. Over the years, I started writing his parents e-mails raising their racist comments with them. I also got copies of racist things they wrote about me. Not to mention so many other examples that aren't documented. But even then, nothing is guaranteed as far as custody goes. Lawyers I've consulted have told me that family court turns on the judge you get. Some white Boomer judge who is himself someone's racist in law might rule that DH has learned his lesson and can be trusted to share custody. Right now, with DH's relatives banned from the house and any FT conversations happening with my earshot, my children are safe. No more comments about how the boy has to be watched before his "other side" kicks in and he steals something. No more comments about my toddler daughter showing "slutty" tendencies. I kid you not. These people have said that and worse about my children while my husband did nothing. I will never forgive him, but I have to be pragmatic.

YOU are your children's first and best advocate, YOU. There's no way in hell I'd stay married to him. It's one thing for his parents to be racist, it's another for him to not stand up for his own children. You are not doing your children any favors by staying in this marriage. What will they think of you when learn of the choice you made to stay in this marriage?? And they will find out, for sure. You staying in this marriage isn't being "pragmatic," it's being stupid.

OP, tge above poster is white and has no idea what your children could face if left alone with your husband. You’re doing the right thing. Dealing with racism is hard. The people like the above poster who choose “not to see race” are exhausting. You’re doing the right thing to protect your children.

Wrong, lady. I'm biracial, just like her children. One black parent, one white. You people kill me thinking you know everything about every poster. It's laughable.

Staying with a racist is NOT protecting her children. Her husband clearly has an issue with blackness which is why he has refused to stand up to his own family to defend it. And proximity to blackness (like marrying a black person) does not exclude him from being racist. How do you stay married to man who is unwilling to protect his own children?? My father would never allow a racist to talk about me and not defend me. Never. Hell, even Harry had the balls to leave the royal family!

She's better off without him.

Yes, SHE is better off...but her children still have to deal with it all. If she leaves, who can look out for them at daddy’s family get togethers? Think!

She can't stop her in laws behaviors married or divorced. That is not a reason to stay married.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I recommend some therapy for you.

I am also a minority woman married to a non-minority man. To me it sounds like you have so much bitterness about this that even if both ILs die and are no longer an issue you’ll continue to hold it against your husband. Could there be deeper issues there, regarding your expectations for him to protect and stand up for you? I agree with you that he sounds conflict averse and avoidant BUT I also think you holding onto this with so much anger and bitterness is not helping you or him. You might both need counseling, but I’d start with you so that you have a change to process what it is you need from him. It is hard to be in a marriage with someone who doesn’t acknowledge your feelings, on the flip side it is hard to be married to someone who doesn’t let you make amends and move on. If you get divorced you don’t want to take baggage with you . Good luck.

I'm not OP. But I don't get posts like these. OF COURSE she expects him to stand up for her and, more importantly, his kids. She doesn't need therapy to "fix" that.

No, she doesn’t. But it sounds like some betrayal that existed pre-marriage has been triggered by this. Multiple people have said that regardless of what she decides, letting go of the bitterness and resentment would be necessary for her to heal.