Lonely, Empty Marriage After Dead MIL

[Anonymous]

OP, I was on your side for much of the thread. DH’s parents have clearly said unforgivable, awful things and your DH should have dealt with that. That said, the more you post, the less sympathetic I think you sound. You take no responsibility for the state of your marriage. At a minimum, it is abundantly clear that you do not communicate effectively with your DH, and seem to refuse to take any steps that might improve things. Other posters have recommended individual therapy, and you apparently reject it (or do not address the topic). Therapy for yourself could help you to address your situation better so you were less resentful. Your resentment is understandable, but is negatively impacting your life and certainly your kids’ lives. The level of bitterness in your posts is high, but there is also a sort of arrogance that gives the strong impression that you are right about everything and are better than your DH. I suspect he has his own resentments built up around this situation, but you seem close-minded to that. Let me reiterate that I find the behavior you described by your in laws reprehensible, and your DH’s failure to address it as very problematic. At the same time, after reading your posts, I suspect that your attitude may also be impacting resolution of this with your DH.

[Anonymous]

Sounds miserable. Why aren’t you divorced yet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This isn’t a healthy dynamic for your children or sustainable for you and your husband. Maybe you both can start by doing therapy 1:1 instead of as a couple.

OP here. He's not going to go to therapy. His family stigmatizes that heavily. Not even the suicide of their untreated bipolar daughter stopped these people from bashing people who seek mental health services. DH has diagnosed depression and anxiety that he refuses to treat. At this point, that's his choice and his problem.

OP. NP also black. Please consider getting a neutral family therapist for the kids alone. Give them a safe space to have emotional mental social support outside of school and home. As they grow, and these dynamics potentially complicate, it will be a nice safe stop and also provides court admissible context should legal issues ever arise around protecting your children from verbal and emotional abuse.

The fact that you two coparent well means you can each individually support them in that place as well.

Therapy for your self.
Family therapy with a child psychiatrist to baseline and check in over years establish a relationship and equip you with new tools and advocate for your children.

[Anonymous]

I’m sorry but what race is Op? I don’t feel sorry for you. You know what dynamic you willingly married into. Smh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This isn’t a healthy dynamic for your children or sustainable for you and your husband. Maybe you both can start by doing therapy 1:1 instead of as a couple.

OP here. He's not going to go to therapy. His family stigmatizes that heavily. Not even the suicide of their untreated bipolar daughter stopped these people from bashing people who seek mental health services. DH has diagnosed depression and anxiety that he refuses to treat. At this point, that's his choice and his problem.

OP. NP also black. Please consider getting a neutral family therapist for the kids alone. Give them a safe space to have emotional mental social support outside of school and home. As they grow, and these dynamics potentially complicate, it will be a nice safe stop and also provides court admissible context should legal issues ever arise around protecting your children from verbal and emotional abuse.

The fact that you two coparent well means you can each individually support them in that place as well.

Therapy for your self.
Family therapy with a child psychiatrist to baseline and check in over years establish a relationship and equip you with new tools and advocate for your children.

OP here. This is a great suggestion. Thanks. I will definitely get on that. My daughter has a therapist, but that’s for the social aspects of her disabilities, not so much for the family dynamic specifically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I reported the gotcha bully and every post that was derailing this.

OP, I feel for you. It's a tough situation.

I was surprised when you said you stopped couples therapy because husband was spinning web of lies. I guess I think that's where he's staerting- those are the things he believes. So you have to go into therapy to come to a mutual understanding of your life together. It would take time for him to get there. I think couples therapy is not a terrible idea, but it would take a LONG time.

During that time, you can start making your plans.. Those plans should include individual therapy. If nothing else, figuring out how to drop the anger at your husband would be productive. It's warranted, but just like the bully, it does you no good to stew about his lies 8 years ago. That happened, and here's where you are.

I am also curious why DH still wants to be married to you. There must be something there. And like another asked, what kind of daad is he? Does he actively love his kids? (how is he when he is around his family?). Does he coach soccer or whatever and help with special needs kid?

If you got pregnant quickly, and have bene together about 8 years, your kids are roughly 7 or so. I'd imagine 12 or som might be enough for kids to be able to understand what is going on and express their own preferences for custody.

so, I'd advise a 5 year plan. Can you tough this out for 5 years? What do you need to do to make it for 5 years and be in a good position to divorce at that point. stick to that.

+1 to this.

I am curious - what is your husband's reaction when you confront him on his relative's racism? Does he acknowledge it? He sounds like kind of a mess - any chance he would GIVE you full custody? Whatever you do, I'd find a lawyer that has fought a nasty custody battle and work towards a plan with him/her. Unless things change and you regain affection for your husband I don't think it's fair to or healthy for you to remain in this marriage for the next 12 years.

OP here. The man will literally lie to my face and tell me he didn’t hear racist things his parents said loudly right in front of him. He will admit everything only under massive duress, such as when I told his parents they weren’t allowed over anymore and he cried for a week telling me they’d all change. He confessed everything then and said that he just hadn’t known what to do about them. Any respect I had left for him was gone after that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I reported the gotcha bully and every post that was derailing this.

OP, I feel for you. It's a tough situation.

I was surprised when you said you stopped couples therapy because husband was spinning web of lies. I guess I think that's where he's staerting- those are the things he believes. So you have to go into therapy to come to a mutual understanding of your life together. It would take time for him to get there. I think couples therapy is not a terrible idea, but it would take a LONG time.

During that time, you can start making your plans.. Those plans should include individual therapy. If nothing else, figuring out how to drop the anger at your husband would be productive. It's warranted, but just like the bully, it does you no good to stew about his lies 8 years ago. That happened, and here's where you are.

I am also curious why DH still wants to be married to you. There must be something there. And like another asked, what kind of daad is he? Does he actively love his kids? (how is he when he is around his family?). Does he coach soccer or whatever and help with special needs kid?

If you got pregnant quickly, and have bene together about 8 years, your kids are roughly 7 or so. I'd imagine 12 or som might be enough for kids to be able to understand what is going on and express their own preferences for custody.

so, I'd advise a 5 year plan. Can you tough this out for 5 years? What do you need to do to make it for 5 years and be in a good position to divorce at that point. stick to that.

+1 to this.

I am curious - what is your husband's reaction when you confront him on his relative's racism? Does he acknowledge it? He sounds like kind of a mess - any chance he would GIVE you full custody? Whatever you do, I'd find a lawyer that has fought a nasty custody battle and work towards a plan with him/her. Unless things change and you regain affection for your husband I don't think it's fair to or healthy for you to remain in this marriage for the next 12 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your ILs are so racists, what makes you think they'd want your kids around? Start declining to attend events on your husband's side and keep the kids with you. Make it a habit/routine and when you divorce just offer to keep them whenever there's an event on that side. Based on what you've said about your husband, I'm sure he'd be happy not to have to deal with it.

I also want to address something you said:

I don't believe breaking up their family is the best move

Your 'family' is already broken up whether you divorce/live together or not. Your children will always have a father but you guys aren't a 'family'.

OP here. My children are the spit and image of my FIL, just with golden skin. FIL gets off on parading them around as his mixed mini-mes and he loves everything he thinks they get from him. But the moment they act up in any way, that’s the non-white side coming out, according to him (and late MIL). The family wants the kids around and they want to bash their non-white side too. I’m not having that.

First, I love that you know it's not "spitting image." That tickles me as an editor.

Second, what is it with these nasty racists who fetishize physical aspects of minorities. Ugh. There was a thread on this recently.

I have to question your skill as an editor. "Spitting image" is just as correct as "spit and image" and "spitten image". It's been in use for over century and cannot be considered incorrect.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/spitting-image-origin-meaning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Living separate lives never gets better, only more distant. I’m flummoxed you wouldn’t divorce in this situation. Surely it’s better for your children to grown up with a loving relationship modeled for them.

OP here. One additional factor weighing against divorce for me is that while we're together, I get to regulate who is around my children. DH's family is so trashy, hateful, racist and DH is so weak and ineffectual that he has and will continue to stand by while those animals are racist towards my children. Short of fighting him for full custody, which is not guaranteed, divorcing him would just mean my kids are exposed to his family with no one to protect them. I don't want to save myself at their expense.

NP here. I am so relating to this, as I stay with my DH for similar reasons...and the parallels go al the way to meeting a divorce attorney in feb 2020, too. I am not of a different race, but my main source of disgust and horror is the racism that was unleashed during the Trump era...and the main reason I stay is he cause I know that he self regulates around me. So he will never say the n-word around our kid, never cross that line, because he knows I will be gone that money. But if I leave him, I will be the enemy, and he will feel free to let his misogyny and racism be expressed at full volume. In fact it will likely be his mission to expose our son as much as possible to it, for amusement. To get my goat.

So that’s why I justify staying. But as I read your post I also want to scream for you to get out so your kids don’t see you compromising like this. So they don’t see you living this half life. So they see your strength. I can see it more clearly in your story than my own.

[Anonymous]

I feel so sorry for your children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your ILs are so racists, what makes you think they'd want your kids around? Start declining to attend events on your husband's side and keep the kids with you. Make it a habit/routine and when you divorce just offer to keep them whenever there's an event on that side. Based on what you've said about your husband, I'm sure he'd be happy not to have to deal with it.

I also want to address something you said:

I don't believe breaking up their family is the best move

Your 'family' is already broken up whether you divorce/live together or not. Your children will always have a father but you guys aren't a 'family'.

OP here. My children are the spit and image of my FIL, just with golden skin. FIL gets off on parading them around as his mixed mini-mes and he loves everything he thinks they get from him. But the moment they act up in any way, that’s the non-white side coming out, according to him (and late MIL). The family wants the kids around and they want to bash their non-white side too. I’m not having that.

First, I love that you know it's not "spitting image." That tickles me as an editor.

Second, what is it with these nasty racists who fetishize physical aspects of minorities. Ugh. There was a thread on this recently.

I have to question your skill as an editor. "Spitting image" is just as correct as "spit and image" and "spitten image". It's been in use for over century and cannot be considered incorrect.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/spitting-image-origin-meaning

My, this thread has brought out all the nitpickers! Sure, let me rephrase: I love that she used the little-known original phrase rather than the more popular bastardized version.

[Anonymous]

OP - have you truly let go of your marriage emotionally? Do you feel that you need to pretend to DH at least that it isn't over? Are you still "faithful" even no sex is being had?

I ask because there is leeway in how you are living life NOW - most importantly in your thoughts, and then in how you live day-to-day and how you are planning your future. Truly, you being "stuck" is just a mindset - whether you decide to stay legally married or not.

Another thing - are you prepared if your DH gets fed up with the status quo and seeks separation or divorce?

[Anonymous]

OP I recommend some therapy for you.

I am also a minority woman married to a non-minority man. To me it sounds like you have so much bitterness about this that even if both ILs die and are no longer an issue you’ll continue to hold it against your husband. Could there be deeper issues there, regarding your expectations for him to protect and stand up for you? I agree with you that he sounds conflict averse and avoidant BUT I also think you holding onto this with so much anger and bitterness is not helping you or him. You might both need counseling, but I’d start with you so that you have a change to process what it is you need from him. It is hard to be in a marriage with someone who doesn’t acknowledge your feelings, on the flip side it is hard to be married to someone who doesn’t let you make amends and move on. If you get divorced you don’t want to take baggage with you . Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I recommend some therapy for you.

I am also a minority woman married to a non-minority man. To me it sounds like you have so much bitterness about this that even if both ILs die and are no longer an issue you’ll continue to hold it against your husband. Could there be deeper issues there, regarding your expectations for him to protect and stand up for you? I agree with you that he sounds conflict averse and avoidant BUT I also think you holding onto this with so much anger and bitterness is not helping you or him. You might both need counseling, but I’d start with you so that you have a change to process what it is you need from him. It is hard to be in a marriage with someone who doesn’t acknowledge your feelings, on the flip side it is hard to be married to someone who doesn’t let you make amends and move on. If you get divorced you don’t want to take baggage with you . Good luck.

Also, I agree with others who said that you need to accept some accountability here. You did choose this guy, knowing that he wasn’t the best at emotional communication/confrontation and that the family of origin was cold, and that he was of another race and wasn’t able to discuss how that would impact you and your relationship. That was your best choice at the time (like you probably didn’t have anyone else you cared more about at the time and you wanted to get married) and there’s no reason to beat yourself up about it. But that’s why others on here are saying you are responsible for the marriage also.

I get that you feel furious and hopeless, and upset at being trapped for the sake of the kids. I really think individual counseling would help you figure out what would be the best resolution, not just practically but also emotionally, for you. Co parenting as you noticed is not necessarily easier and you will be dealing with this guy for the next 20 years at least. No doubt he has made a lot of hurtful mistakes. On the other hand he sounds like a decent partner in many respects and you must have liked something about him emotionally to marry him. Many relationships are in a bad place right now also bc of the stress of the pandemic, so could it be that a change of situation might help you to see more positive possibilities here...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I hear you. Could you document the racism in DH's social/family circles? Does anyone here think that would help/ensure a full custody arrangement?

Hahahahahaha no.