Lonely, Empty Marriage After Dead MIL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This isn’t a healthy dynamic for your children or sustainable for you and your husband. Maybe you both can start by doing therapy 1:1 instead of as a couple.

OP here. He's not going to go to therapy. His family stigmatizes that heavily. Not even the suicide of their untreated bipolar daughter stopped these people from bashing people who seek mental health services. DH has diagnosed depression and anxiety that he refuses to treat. At this point, that's his choice and his problem.

[Anonymous]

Why did you marry and have multiple kids with him? One I can see but two?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Living separate lives never gets better, only more distant. I’m flummoxed you wouldn’t divorce in this situation. Surely it’s better for your children to grown up with a loving relationship modeled for them.

OP here. One additional factor weighing against divorce for me is that while we're together, I get to regulate who is around my children. DH's family is so trashy, hateful, racist and DH is so weak and ineffectual that he has and will continue to stand by while those animals are racist towards my children. Short of fighting him for full custody, which is not guaranteed, divorcing him would just mean my kids are exposed to his family with no one to protect them. I don't want to save myself at their expense.

I am a black woman, raised by a single mother (who was divorced) and now married to a spouse whose parents were married but didn’t seem to get along for years and tolerated each other. So I feel like I relate to your post in many ways: I grew up with a parent who chose to divorce rather than stay in a bad marriage “for the sake of the kids,” my spouse’s parents chose the opposite, and I’m black so I get the race thing, and I also have a kid and sometimes think about what divorce would mean in terms of sharing custody.

Were it not for your husbands complete inability to stand up for his children’s identities to his family’s racism,I would absolutely say to divorce because it’s better to model happiness alone than misery stay together. But I think it’ll be much more damaging to their psyche long term to have them spend half of their time with a racist family and a father who either doesn’t defend them or who believes the same than it would be to grow up with parents who show no affection to each other. So I’d suggest that you get individual and may couples therapy to figure out how to tolerate each other without resentment until they are in high school, when they can really choose who they want to live with, and then divorce.

OP here. You totally get it. Right now, my children are too little to protect themselves. The oldest is only in second grade. Once they're old enough to stand up for themselves or refuse to see the trash on DH's side of the family instead of being taken against their will, I'm so done with DH. But there are years and years before that happens and I'm just trying to figure out how to get through long days looking at this man. I feel as if he suckered me into what he KNEW would be a toxic dynamic and then helped bully me. Valentine's Day just passed and I actually had trouble looking at him because I was so angry at how this is my life. No love, no romance, just married on the books and rearing children together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why did you marry and have multiple kids with him? One I can see but two?

OP here. Sigh. They're twins and we conceived quickly. I didn't foresee that a sane person would knowingly bring a woman of color into a racist family and lie to her about it! To this day, he has yet to explain why he did it. If he knew he couldn't stand up to racism and that his parents were opposed, why the hell did he marry me? I told him repeatedly that if his family had a problem, I wanted him to tell me and that I would rather break up than have toxic in laws. The whole time before we announced my pregnancy, his parents were often distant in a way that made me wonder if it was my race, but nothing I could put my finger on. Little did I know they were working hard behind the scenes to end us and when they didn't succeed, they were furious.

I'm a lot wiser to human duplicity now, I guess.

[Anonymous]

OP here. One more complication. Our second twin has special needs. The type of special needs that mean she can't be educated in a mainstream setting. She's physically the same age as her brother, but mentally younger. I can't imagine putting her through a custody battle.

I feel so trapped and it's eating me.

[Anonymous]

OP, first step here is I think you build support for yourself. Whatever ends up happening you will need strong support network. Get yourself into therapy ASAP. Take the time to speak to a few, have questions prepped. If you can meet 2x/week. Virtual is better than none. Please do this for yourself. You must care for yourself first and have a place to process the resentment to have a clearer mind and heart around decisions moving forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why did you marry and have multiple kids with him? One I can see but two?

OP here. Sigh. They're twins and we conceived quickly. I didn't foresee that a sane person would knowingly bring a woman of color into a racist family and lie to her about it! To this day, he has yet to explain why he did it. If he knew he couldn't stand up to racism and that his parents were opposed, why the hell did he marry me? I told him repeatedly that if his family had a problem, I wanted him to tell me and that I would rather break up than have toxic in laws. The whole time before we announced my pregnancy, his parents were often distant in a way that made me wonder if it was my race, but nothing I could put my finger on. Little did I know they were working hard behind the scenes to end us and when they didn't succeed, they were furious.

I'm a lot wiser to human duplicity now, I guess.

Nope, OP. This is on you as much as it is him. You had your suspicions but went ahead and married him and had kids with him anyway. You weren't deceived you chose to ignore a gigantic red flag for whatever reason. I can say this as a woman of color who has been in the situation with the racist family whose SO claims they aren't racist.

You are dropping the rope again by refusing therapy for YOURSELF. You don't have to go with him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I hear you. Could you document the racism in DH's social/family circles? Does anyone here think that would help/ensure a full custody arrangement?

I have A LOT of documentation. Over the years, I started writing his parents e-mails raising their racist comments with them. I also got copies of racist things they wrote about me. Not to mention so many other examples that aren't documented. But even then, nothing is guaranteed as far as custody goes. Lawyers I've consulted have told me that family court turns on the judge you get. Some white Boomer judge who is himself someone's racist in law might rule that DH has learned his lesson and can be trusted to share custody. Right now, with DH's relatives banned from the house and any FT conversations happening with my earshot, my children are safe. No more comments about how the boy has to be watched before his "other side" kicks in and he steals something. No more comments about my toddler daughter showing "slutty" tendencies. I kid you not. These people have said that and worse about my children while my husband did nothing. I will never forgive him, but I have to be pragmatic.

I'm no legal expert but if you have this documentation, wouldn't that be enough for at least a supervised visit with DH if he has the kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why did you marry and have multiple kids with him? One I can see but two?

OP here. Sigh. They're twins and we conceived quickly. I didn't foresee that a sane person would knowingly bring a woman of color into a racist family and lie to her about it! To this day, he has yet to explain why he did it. If he knew he couldn't stand up to racism and that his parents were opposed, why the hell did he marry me? I told him repeatedly that if his family had a problem, I wanted him to tell me and that I would rather break up than have toxic in laws. The whole time before we announced my pregnancy, his parents were often distant in a way that made me wonder if it was my race, but nothing I could put my finger on. Little did I know they were working hard behind the scenes to end us and when they didn't succeed, they were furious.

I'm a lot wiser to human duplicity now, I guess.

Nope, OP. This is on you as much as it is him. You had your suspicions but went ahead and married him and had kids with him anyway. You weren't deceived you chose to ignore a gigantic red flag for whatever reason. I can say this as a woman of color who has been in the situation with the racist family whose SO claims they aren't racist.

You are dropping the rope again by refusing therapy for YOURSELF. You don't have to go with him.

OP here. OK, if that’s how you read it. Maybe you’re just a savvier person who would have seen that cold behavior, combined to with your presumably trustworthy fiancé reassuring you that they’re just reserved and it’s not you, means secret racists waiting to pounce. I had never dealt with anything like that before or after. I had had white boyfriends before and grew up with white friends and still have a number of white friends I’m close to. They’re all baffled too. I don’t get how people living in a major city are so racist and yet felt the need to hide it until we were all trapped. If they had made their feelings known to me, I would’ve gotten lost and they could have been happy. But hey, if you want to read this as my fault, that’s fine with me. That doesn’t do me any good in my current life, however.

[Anonymous]

I'm curious about this too. Is there a path back from this situation? My wife and I are in a vaguely comparable situation. We had our problems before the pandemic. I wouldn't say things took a turn during the pandemic- I might be more accurate to say it accelerated and emphasized the feelings of resentment.

It's probably fair to say we function more as co-parenting roommates than a married couple. Things are usually relatively civil, but I'm not sure either one of us really likes each other. We get what we need to do with the kids ready for daycare in the morning, and bed at night, and then mostly go our separate ways once they're asleep. We tried marriage counseling for a while, but found it unhelp, perhaps even counterproductive.

We talk about divorce a bit. My wife dismisses it quite quickly. I'm not sure if she think I'm serious. And to a certain extent, I'm not sure I am, either. As bad as the marriage itself is, it seems fairly likely that life as a whole would get worse with a divorce, between the kids, finances, and general logistics of life.

The pandemic certainly didn't help, but I don't see our problems going away post-pandemic either. Is this the typical path of people that stay together another 10-15 years until the kids are out of the house?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why did you marry and have multiple kids with him? One I can see but two?

OP here. Sigh. They're twins and we conceived quickly. I didn't foresee that a sane person would knowingly bring a woman of color into a racist family and lie to her about it! To this day, he has yet to explain why he did it. If he knew he couldn't stand up to racism and that his parents were opposed, why the hell did he marry me? I told him repeatedly that if his family had a problem, I wanted him to tell me and that I would rather break up than have toxic in laws. The whole time before we announced my pregnancy, his parents were often distant in a way that made me wonder if it was my race, but nothing I could put my finger on. Little did I know they were working hard behind the scenes to end us and when they didn't succeed, they were furious.

I'm a lot wiser to human duplicity now, I guess.

Nope, OP. This is on you as much as it is him. You had your suspicions but went ahead and married him and had kids with him anyway. You weren't deceived you chose to ignore a gigantic red flag for whatever reason. I can say this as a woman of color who has been in the situation with the racist family whose SO claims they aren't racist.

You are dropping the rope again by refusing therapy for YOURSELF. You don't have to go with him.

OP here. OK, if that’s how you read it. Maybe you’re just a savvier person who would have seen that cold behavior, combined to with your presumably trustworthy fiancé reassuring you that they’re just reserved and it’s not you, means secret racists waiting to pounce. I had never dealt with anything like that before or after. I had had white boyfriends before and grew up with white friends and still have a number of white friends I’m close to. They’re all baffled too. I don’t get how people living in a major city are so racist and yet felt the need to hide it until we were all trapped. If they had made their feelings known to me, I would’ve gotten lost and they could have been happy. But hey, if you want to read this as my fault, that’s fine with me. That doesn’t do me any good in my current life, however.

You said you thought she was a racist. That should have been enough for you. That's vetting, no need to beg fiance to tell you the truth or other such nonsense. Every single POC knows what's up with racism and family, and you either ignore and accept it or get the hell out the first time you suspect it. But you went right on ahead with it. You have equal responsibility in it. It has nothing to do with all the white people you know, or how you supposedly don't understand it. If you're a real POC you know racism doesn't make any damn sense and exists everywhere. Anyway, pp is correct about you you don't actually want to change on improving anything. You like the toxicity and the drama despite what you claim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I hear you. Could you document the racism in DH's social/family circles? Does anyone here think that would help/ensure a full custody arrangement?

I have A LOT of documentation. Over the years, I started writing his parents e-mails raising their racist comments with them. I also got copies of racist things they wrote about me. Not to mention so many other examples that aren't documented. But even then, nothing is guaranteed as far as custody goes. Lawyers I've consulted have told me that family court turns on the judge you get. Some white Boomer judge who is himself someone's racist in law might rule that DH has learned his lesson and can be trusted to share custody. Right now, with DH's relatives banned from the house and any FT conversations happening with my earshot, my children are safe. No more comments about how the boy has to be watched before his "other side" kicks in and he steals something. No more comments about my toddler daughter showing "slutty" tendencies. I kid you not. These people have said that and worse about my children while my husband did nothing. I will never forgive him, but I have to be pragmatic.

I'm no legal expert but if you have this documentation, wouldn't that be enough for at least a supervised visit with DH if he has the kids

OP here. One would think so. The divorce lawyer I hired is really good and I was fired up to go to court and be done with this bullshit until we started discussing custody. She says that there just aren’t enough cases like this for it to be clear that being subjected to racism by the extended family, instead of the actual parent, is enough. She also made very clear to me that there’s a difference between the court order on paper and what parents will comply with. I can spend the rest of my life dragging her to court for not complying with supervision.She also made very clear to me that there’s a difference between the court order on paper and what parents will comply with. I could spend the rest of my life dragging him to court for exposing the kids to his family unsupervised. I also wouldn’t know until after if he had them at his house while the kids were over. Her advice really took the wind out of my sails, but was confirmed by two other lawyers I also consulted. According to another lawyer, 20 years ago when the presumption was in favor of the mother getting custody, this would’ve been a slam dunk full custody case. The law has changed though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why did you marry and have multiple kids with him? One I can see but two?

OP here. Sigh. They're twins and we conceived quickly. I didn't foresee that a sane person would knowingly bring a woman of color into a racist family and lie to her about it! To this day, he has yet to explain why he did it. If he knew he couldn't stand up to racism and that his parents were opposed, why the hell did he marry me? I told him repeatedly that if his family had a problem, I wanted him to tell me and that I would rather break up than have toxic in laws. The whole time before we announced my pregnancy, his parents were often distant in a way that made me wonder if it was my race, but nothing I could put my finger on. Little did I know they were working hard behind the scenes to end us and when they didn't succeed, they were furious.

I'm a lot wiser to human duplicity now, I guess.

Nope, OP. This is on you as much as it is him. You had your suspicions but went ahead and married him and had kids with him anyway. You weren't deceived you chose to ignore a gigantic red flag for whatever reason. I can say this as a woman of color who has been in the situation with the racist family whose SO claims they aren't racist.

You are dropping the rope again by refusing therapy for YOURSELF. You don't have to go with him.

OP here. OK, if that’s how you read it. Maybe you’re just a savvier person who would have seen that cold behavior, combined to with your presumably trustworthy fiancé reassuring you that they’re just reserved and it’s not you, means secret racists waiting to pounce. I had never dealt with anything like that before or after. I had had white boyfriends before and grew up with white friends and still have a number of white friends I’m close to. They’re all baffled too. I don’t get how people living in a major city are so racist and yet felt the need to hide it until we were all trapped. If they had made their feelings known to me, I would’ve gotten lost and they could have been happy. But hey, if you want to read this as my fault, that’s fine with me. That doesn’t do me any good in my current life, however.

You said you thought she was a racist. That should have been enough for you. That's vetting, no need to beg fiance to tell you the truth or other such nonsense. Every single POC knows what's up with racism and family, and you either ignore and accept it or get the hell out the first time you suspect it. But you went right on ahead with it. You have equal responsibility in it. It has nothing to do with all the white people you know, or how you supposedly don't understand it. If you're a real POC you know racism doesn't make any damn sense and exists everywhere. Anyway, pp is correct about you you don't actually want to change on improving anything. You like the toxicity and the drama despite what you claim.

OP here. Excellent job analyzing what I should’ve known eight years ago. That’s not very useful right now, but at least you got it off your chest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I hear you. Could you document the racism in DH's social/family circles? Does anyone here think that would help/ensure a full custody arrangement?

I have A LOT of documentation. Over the years, I started writing his parents e-mails raising their racist comments with them. I also got copies of racist things they wrote about me. Not to mention so many other examples that aren't documented. But even then, nothing is guaranteed as far as custody goes. Lawyers I've consulted have told me that family court turns on the judge you get. Some white Boomer judge who is himself someone's racist in law might rule that DH has learned his lesson and can be trusted to share custody. Right now, with DH's relatives banned from the house and any FT conversations happening with my earshot, my children are safe. No more comments about how the boy has to be watched before his "other side" kicks in and he steals something. No more comments about my toddler daughter showing "slutty" tendencies. I kid you not. These people have said that and worse about my children while my husband did nothing. I will never forgive him, but I have to be pragmatic.

I'm no legal expert but if you have this documentation, wouldn't that be enough for at least a supervised visit with DH if he has the kids

OP here. One would think so. The divorce lawyer I hired is really good and I was fired up to go to court and be done with this bullshit until we started discussing custody. She says that there just aren’t enough cases like this for it to be clear that being subjected to racism by the extended family, instead of the actual parent, is enough. She also made very clear to me that there’s a difference between the court order on paper and what parents will comply with. I can spend the rest of my life dragging her to court for not complying with supervision.She also made very clear to me that there’s a difference between the court order on paper and what parents will comply with. I could spend the rest of my life dragging him to court for exposing the kids to his family unsupervised. I also wouldn’t know until after if he had them at his house while the kids were over. Her advice really took the wind out of my sails, but was confirmed by two other lawyers I also consulted. According to another lawyer, 20 years ago when the presumption was in favor of the mother getting custody, this would’ve been a slam dunk full custody case. The law has changed though.

Pardon the typos! Microphone isn’t the greatest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of me thinks you are making this up, because you are just adding bits and pieces to the story to make it seem worse.

If it is true, it's clear you don't actually want to do anything about it, just wallow in your misery make exxcuses and make yourself the matyr.

If you do want things to change you have been given some good advice that I hope you take.

OP here. I know. Sometimes, I seriously lay in bed and think to myself how the hell is this my life? I honestly don’t know what to do. If you see that as wallowing, that’s fine. I hope you never end up in a similar situation. I know what to do to save myself and, if I could get full custody, I would be long gone. I know my husband will fight to the death though and I just can’t commit myself that a good mom would share custody in this situation knowing what the kids are dealing with.

You could go to individual therapy to sort your head out, you have given your finger to that suggestion.

Have you talked with an attorney about your specific case and custody? Doesn't seem like you have, so you might want to start there. And stop your pity party.

OP here. Is there someone else posting in this thread as me? Where did you read that I have given the finger to individual therapy?