Lonely, Empty Marriage After Dead MIL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I reported the gotcha bully and every post that was derailing this.

OP, I feel for you. It's a tough situation.

I was surprised when you said you stopped couples therapy because husband was spinning web of lies. I guess I think that's where he's staerting- those are the things he believes. So you have to go into therapy to come to a mutual understanding of your life together. It would take time for him to get there. I think couples therapy is not a terrible idea, but it would take a LONG time.

OP here. When I said that he was lying, I mean knowing lies. He was denying that his parents had said things that he knew who all they had sad. I had to bring out emails to prove him a liar because his constant denials were getting in the way of any kind of work we could do there. Eventually, I thought to myself, why don’t I just do this in divorce court?

That’s my husband’s personality, by the way. Any time there’s a reality he doesn’t want to face, he just lies about it. I’ve seen him do it over the years on many issues. He just denies it ever happened and just keeps on repeating that it didn’t happen almost as if trying to hypnotize himself and others into believing it. It’s a very disturbing personality trait that his parents also share.

During that time, you can start making your plans.. Those plans should include individual therapy. If nothing else, figuring out how to drop the anger at your husband would be productive. It's warranted, but just like the bully, it does you no good to stew about his lies 8 years ago. That happened, and here's where you are.

I am also curious why DH still wants to be married to you. There must be something there. And like another asked, what kind of daad is he? Does he actively love his kids? (how is he when he is around his family?). Does he coach soccer or whatever and help with special needs kid?

Right now, he’s a pretty good parent in terms of the daily details, but that came only after years of me having to educate and carry him along like a child. That’s an issue that I forgave him on, but at some point there’s just too much to keep forgiving.

If you got pregnant quickly, and have bene together about 8 years, your kids are roughly 7 or so. I'd imagine 12 or som might be enough for kids to be able to understand what is going on and express their own preferences for custody.

so, I'd advise a 5 year plan. Can you tough this out for 5 years? What do you need to do to make it for 5 years and be in a good position to divorce at that point. stick to that.

Yes, five years is the minimum my son needs. My daughter is a different story, but I have a feeling he’s not going to want to fight for custody of her when she’s a teenager who needs her sanitary pad changed and such.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would suggest finding a therapist that is preferably the same race or similar race to you. They can empathize with you in a way a white therapist can’t, and may be able to offer you suggestions, or at least a space to process everything you’ve been subjected to over the years.

OP here. You’re totally right about this. It’s just not the same with a therapist who doesn’t get it on a racial level. It just gets really tricky finding a therapist who is highly recommended, deals with marital/family issues, has availability, and is also diverse. It will take some searching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Living separate lives never gets better, only more distant. I’m flummoxed you wouldn’t divorce in this situation. Surely it’s better for your children to grown up with a loving relationship modeled for them.

OP here. One additional factor weighing against divorce for me is that while we're together, I get to regulate who is around my children. DH's family is so trashy, hateful, racist and DH is so weak and ineffectual that he has and will continue to stand by while those animals are racist towards my children. Short of fighting him for full custody, which is not guaranteed, divorcing him would just mean my kids are exposed to his family with no one to protect them. I don't want to save myself at their expense.

Excellent point.

[Anonymous]

Cheat. You need something on the side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, since you’re clearly actively monitoring this thread- can you explain why you initially mentioned your older child being in second grade and subsequently changed your story to the kids being twins (when someone asked why you continued to have a second child with your husband)?

OP here. I would explain it, but I can tell that you’re the same really aggressive person from the previous pages and you’re really being eaten up by this. So, I’m going to let you scroll through all these pages and figure it out yourself. Hint: Twins don’t come out at the same time and there’s something called cognitive age that doesn’t correspond to chronological age. Consider yourself lucky that you don’t know anything about that. Thanks for this round of gotcha!

+1. OP, you’ve explained more than enough. The black female poster who gave her POV seems dead-on. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with all of this. Shame on your DH.

To the other poster who reported some of the “gotcha” losers here, thanks as well. It gets old.

[Anonymous]

If your ILs are so racists, what makes you think they'd want your kids around? Start declining to attend events on your husband's side and keep the kids with you. Make it a habit/routine and when you divorce just offer to keep them whenever there's an event on that side. Based on what you've said about your husband, I'm sure he'd be happy not to have to deal with it.

I also want to address something you said:

I don't believe breaking up their family is the best move

Your 'family' is already broken up whether you divorce/live together or not. Your children will always have a father but you guys aren't a 'family'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your ILs are so racists, what makes you think they'd want your kids around? Start declining to attend events on your husband's side and keep the kids with you. Make it a habit/routine and when you divorce just offer to keep them whenever there's an event on that side. Based on what you've said about your husband, I'm sure he'd be happy not to have to deal with it.

I also want to address something you said:

I don't believe breaking up their family is the best move

Your 'family' is already broken up whether you divorce/live together or not. Your children will always have a father but you guys aren't a 'family'.

OP here. My children are the spit and image of my FIL, just with golden skin. FIL gets off on parading them around as his mixed mini-mes and he loves everything he thinks they get from him. But the moment they act up in any way, that’s the non-white side coming out, according to him (and late MIL). The family wants the kids around and they want to bash their non-white side too. I’m not having that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your ILs are so racists, what makes you think they'd want your kids around? Start declining to attend events on your husband's side and keep the kids with you. Make it a habit/routine and when you divorce just offer to keep them whenever there's an event on that side. Based on what you've said about your husband, I'm sure he'd be happy not to have to deal with it.

I also want to address something you said:

I don't believe breaking up their family is the best move

Your 'family' is already broken up whether you divorce/live together or not. Your children will always have a father but you guys aren't a 'family'.

OP here. My children are the spit and image of my FIL, just with golden skin. FIL gets off on parading them around as his mixed mini-mes and he loves everything he thinks they get from him. But the moment they act up in any way, that’s the non-white side coming out, according to him (and late MIL). The family wants the kids around and they want to bash their non-white side too. I’m not having that.

First, I love that you know it's not "spitting image." That tickles me as an editor.

Second, what is it with these nasty racists who fetishize physical aspects of minorities. Ugh. There was a thread on this recently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your ILs are so racists, what makes you think they'd want your kids around? Start declining to attend events on your husband's side and keep the kids with you. Make it a habit/routine and when you divorce just offer to keep them whenever there's an event on that side. Based on what you've said about your husband, I'm sure he'd be happy not to have to deal with it.

I also want to address something you said:

I don't believe breaking up their family is the best move

Your 'family' is already broken up whether you divorce/live together or not. Your children will always have a father but you guys aren't a 'family'.

OP here. My children are the spit and image of my FIL, just with golden skin. FIL gets off on parading them around as his mixed mini-mes and he loves everything he thinks they get from him. But the moment they act up in any way, that’s the non-white side coming out, according to him (and late MIL). The family wants the kids around and they want to bash their non-white side too. I’m not having that.

Well, then, enjoy your marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I hear you. Could you document the racism in DH's social/family circles? Does anyone here think that would help/ensure a full custody arrangement?

I have A LOT of documentation. Over the years, I started writing his parents e-mails raising their racist comments with them. I also got copies of racist things they wrote about me. Not to mention so many other examples that aren't documented. But even then, nothing is guaranteed as far as custody goes. Lawyers I've consulted have told me that family court turns on the judge you get. Some white Boomer judge who is himself someone's racist in law might rule that DH has learned his lesson and can be trusted to share custody. Right now, with DH's relatives banned from the house and any FT conversations happening with my earshot, my children are safe. No more comments about how the boy has to be watched before his "other side" kicks in and he steals something. No more comments about my toddler daughter showing "slutty" tendencies. I kid you not. These people have said that and worse about my children while my husband did nothing. I will never forgive him, but I have to be pragmatic.

I'm no legal expert but if you have this documentation, wouldn't that be enough for at least a supervised visit with DH if he has the kids

You guys are cute. You do realize that there are women who have medical records documenting physical abuse and hospital stays from broken bones and the man still gets 50/50 custody.

The most that this type of documentation would get you is an online parenting seminar. Maybe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I hear you. Could you document the racism in DH's social/family circles? Does anyone here think that would help/ensure a full custody arrangement?

I have A LOT of documentation. Over the years, I started writing his parents e-mails raising their racist comments with them. I also got copies of racist things they wrote about me. Not to mention so many other examples that aren't documented. But even then, nothing is guaranteed as far as custody goes. Lawyers I've consulted have told me that family court turns on the judge you get. Some white Boomer judge who is himself someone's racist in law might rule that DH has learned his lesson and can be trusted to share custody. Right now, with DH's relatives banned from the house and any FT conversations happening with my earshot, my children are safe. No more comments about how the boy has to be watched before his "other side" kicks in and he steals something. No more comments about my toddler daughter showing "slutty" tendencies. I kid you not. These people have said that and worse about my children while my husband did nothing. I will never forgive him, but I have to be pragmatic.

I'm no legal expert but if you have this documentation, wouldn't that be enough for at least a supervised visit with DH if he has the kids

You guys are cute. You do realize that there are women who have medical records documenting physical abuse and hospital stays from broken bones and the man still gets 50/50 custody.

The most that this type of documentation would get you is an online parenting seminar. Maybe.

OP here. This is exactly the kind of advice that multiple Lawrence gave me. They said that there is such a presumption in favor of sharing custody but even manifestly unfit and cruel parents who aren’t fighting all that hard for custody still stand a good chance of sharing custody nowadays. So, where the father is an otherwise “good” parent who is just a complete coward where his family are concerned on race, he’s well situated. The pendulum has basically swung in the other extreme from the days when women always got custody and men almost never did.

[Anonymous]

^^Lawyers, not Lawrence. Lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your ILs are so racists, what makes you think they'd want your kids around? Start declining to attend events on your husband's side and keep the kids with you. Make it a habit/routine and when you divorce just offer to keep them whenever there's an event on that side. Based on what you've said about your husband, I'm sure he'd be happy not to have to deal with it.

I also want to address something you said:

I don't believe breaking up their family is the best move

Your 'family' is already broken up whether you divorce/live together or not. Your children will always have a father but you guys aren't a 'family'.

OP here. My children are the spit and image of my FIL, just with golden skin. FIL gets off on parading them around as his mixed mini-mes and he loves everything he thinks they get from him. But the moment they act up in any way, that’s the non-white side coming out, according to him (and late MIL). The family wants the kids around and they want to bash their non-white side too. I’m not having that.

First, I love that you know it's not "spitting image." That tickles me as an editor.

Second, what is it with these nasty racists who fetishize physical aspects of minorities. Ugh. There was a thread on this recently.

OP here. It’s a very real phenomenon that I hadn’t experienced until I had mixed children. My children have interesting goldish eyes (hard to describe), tan skin, and auburn curls. All the white people on that side just eat up the “exotic” twist on their features that my kids represent. MIL said my kids look like someone used an app to make FIL universally attractive with sun-kissed skin. The thing is that they don’t actually like the kids’ non-white blood. The fact that those features come from non-white genes mixed with the white ones is inconvenient and irritating to them. I know they would try to raise my ambiguous kids as white in a heartbeat if something happened to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I hear you. Could you document the racism in DH's social/family circles? Does anyone here think that would help/ensure a full custody arrangement?

I have A LOT of documentation. Over the years, I started writing his parents e-mails raising their racist comments with them. I also got copies of racist things they wrote about me. Not to mention so many other examples that aren't documented. But even then, nothing is guaranteed as far as custody goes. Lawyers I've consulted have told me that family court turns on the judge you get. Some white Boomer judge who is himself someone's racist in law might rule that DH has learned his lesson and can be trusted to share custody. Right now, with DH's relatives banned from the house and any FT conversations happening with my earshot, my children are safe. No more comments about how the boy has to be watched before his "other side" kicks in and he steals something. No more comments about my toddler daughter showing "slutty" tendencies. I kid you not. These people have said that and worse about my children while my husband did nothing. I will never forgive him, but I have to be pragmatic.

I'm no legal expert but if you have this documentation, wouldn't that be enough for at least a supervised visit with DH if he has the kids

Actually I doubt it. The documentation may help, but the problem is that parents have a right to parent their children. That means mom AND dad in this situation. If her DH was living with racist relatives, it may be enough to prevent less than 50% time with dad, but I doubt it would be enough to require supervised visits with dad - to get supervised visits there needs to be actual abuse by the parent to the child. It’s very hard to get. Even emotional abuse often isn’t enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I reported the gotcha bully and every post that was derailing this.

OP, I feel for you. It's a tough situation.

I was surprised when you said you stopped couples therapy because husband was spinning web of lies. I guess I think that's where he's staerting- those are the things he believes. So you have to go into therapy to come to a mutual understanding of your life together. It would take time for him to get there. I think couples therapy is not a terrible idea, but it would take a LONG time.

During that time, you can start making your plans.. Those plans should include individual therapy. If nothing else, figuring out how to drop the anger at your husband would be productive. It's warranted, but just like the bully, it does you no good to stew about his lies 8 years ago. That happened, and here's where you are.

I am also curious why DH still wants to be married to you. There must be something there. And like another asked, what kind of daad is he? Does he actively love his kids? (how is he when he is around his family?). Does he coach soccer or whatever and help with special needs kid?

If you got pregnant quickly, and have bene together about 8 years, your kids are roughly 7 or so. I'd imagine 12 or som might be enough for kids to be able to understand what is going on and express their own preferences for custody.

so, I'd advise a 5 year plan. Can you tough this out for 5 years? What do you need to do to make it for 5 years and be in a good position to divorce at that point. stick to that.

+1 to this.

I am curious - what is your husband's reaction when you confront him on his relative's racism? Does he acknowledge it? He sounds like kind of a mess - any chance he would GIVE you full custody? Whatever you do, I'd find a lawyer that has fought a nasty custody battle and work towards a plan with him/her. Unless things change and you regain affection for your husband I don't think it's fair to or healthy for you to remain in this marriage for the next 12 years.