Lonely, Empty Marriage After Dead MIL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Living separate lives never gets better, only more distant. I’m flummoxed you wouldn’t divorce in this situation. Surely it’s better for your children to grown up with a loving relationship modeled for them.

OP here. One additional factor weighing against divorce for me is that while we're together, I get to regulate who is around my children. DH's family is so trashy, hateful, racist and DH is so weak and ineffectual that he has and will continue to stand by while those animals are racist towards my children. Short of fighting him for full custody, which is not guaranteed, divorcing him would just mean my kids are exposed to his family with no one to protect them. I don't want to save myself at their expense.

I am a black woman, raised by a single mother (who was divorced) and now married to a spouse whose parents were married but didn’t seem to get along for years and tolerated each other. So I feel like I relate to your post in many ways: I grew up with a parent who chose to divorce rather than stay in a bad marriage “for the sake of the kids,” my spouse’s parents chose the opposite, and I’m black so I get the race thing, and I also have a kid and sometimes think about what divorce would mean in terms of sharing custody.

Were it not for your husbands complete inability to stand up for his children’s identities to his family’s racism,I would absolutely say to divorce because it’s better to model happiness alone than misery stay together. But I think it’ll be much more damaging to their psyche long term to have them spend half of their time with a racist family and a father who either doesn’t defend them or who believes the same than it would be to grow up with parents who show no affection to each other. So I’d suggest that you get individual and may couples therapy to figure out how to tolerate each other without resentment until they are in high school, when they can really choose who they want to live with, and then divorce.

OP here. You totally get it. Right now, my children are too little to protect themselves. The oldest is only in second grade. Once they're old enough to stand up for themselves or refuse to see the trash on DH's side of the family instead of being taken against their will, I'm so done with DH. But there are years and years before that happens and I'm just trying to figure out how to get through long days looking at this man. I feel as if he suckered me into what he KNEW would be a toxic dynamic and then helped bully me. Valentine's Day just passed and I actually had trouble looking at him because I was so angry at how this is my life. No love, no romance, just married on the books and rearing children together.

You can still be a regulating influence on your kids even if they are spending time away from you with the racist paternal family members. Consider the message nthat you're sending them while continuing to stay with the father.

I totally get the unique pressures you're under with twins and a child with special needs, though. You haven't directly cited that as an issue, but I can only imagine how hard it would be a raise a child with special needs as a single parent. I know I couldn't handle my ASD child by myself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious about this too. Is there a path back from this situation? My wife and I are in a vaguely comparable situation. We had our problems before the pandemic. I wouldn't say things took a turn during the pandemic- I might be more accurate to say it accelerated and emphasized the feelings of resentment.

It's probably fair to say we function more as co-parenting roommates than a married couple. Things are usually relatively civil, but I'm not sure either one of us really likes each other. We get what we need to do with the kids ready for daycare in the morning, and bed at night, and then mostly go our separate ways once they're asleep. We tried marriage counseling for a while, but found it unhelp, perhaps even counterproductive.

We talk about divorce a bit. My wife dismisses it quite quickly. I'm not sure if she think I'm serious. And to a certain extent, I'm not sure I am, either. As bad as the marriage itself is, it seems fairly likely that life as a whole would get worse with a divorce, between the kids, finances, and general logistics of life.

The pandemic certainly didn't help, but I don't see our problems going away post-pandemic either. Is this the typical path of people that stay together another 10-15 years until the kids are out of the house?

OP here. I’m sorry you’re in a similar position. What created your resentment? Do you think coparenting as divorced parents could work with your wife or would leaving the kids with her half the time likely be bad for them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Living separate lives never gets better, only more distant. I’m flummoxed you wouldn’t divorce in this situation. Surely it’s better for your children to grown up with a loving relationship modeled for them.

OP here. One additional factor weighing against divorce for me is that while we're together, I get to regulate who is around my children. DH's family is so trashy, hateful, racist and DH is so weak and ineffectual that he has and will continue to stand by while those animals are racist towards my children. Short of fighting him for full custody, which is not guaranteed, divorcing him would just mean my kids are exposed to his family with no one to protect them. I don't want to save myself at their expense.

I am a black woman, raised by a single mother (who was divorced) and now married to a spouse whose parents were married but didn’t seem to get along for years and tolerated each other. So I feel like I relate to your post in many ways: I grew up with a parent who chose to divorce rather than stay in a bad marriage “for the sake of the kids,” my spouse’s parents chose the opposite, and I’m black so I get the race thing, and I also have a kid and sometimes think about what divorce would mean in terms of sharing custody.

Were it not for your husbands complete inability to stand up for his children’s identities to his family’s racism,I would absolutely say to divorce because it’s better to model happiness alone than misery stay together. But I think it’ll be much more damaging to their psyche long term to have them spend half of their time with a racist family and a father who either doesn’t defend them or who believes the same than it would be to grow up with parents who show no affection to each other. So I’d suggest that you get individual and may couples therapy to figure out how to tolerate each other without resentment until they are in high school, when they can really choose who they want to live with, and then divorce.

OP here. You totally get it. Right now, my children are too little to protect themselves. The oldest is only in second grade. Once they're old enough to stand up for themselves or refuse to see the trash on DH's side of the family instead of being taken against their will, I'm so done with DH. But there are years and years before that happens and I'm just trying to figure out how to get through long days looking at this man. I feel as if he suckered me into what he KNEW would be a toxic dynamic and then helped bully me. Valentine's Day just passed and I actually had trouble looking at him because I was so angry at how this is my life. No love, no romance, just married on the books and rearing children together.

You can still be a regulating influence on your kids even if they are spending time away from you with the racist paternal family members. Consider the message nthat you're sending them while continuing to stay with the father.

I totally get the unique pressures you're under with twins and a child with special needs, though. You haven't directly cited that as an issue, but I can only imagine how hard it would be a raise a child with special needs as a single parent. I know I couldn't handle my ASD child by myself.

Her reason for that is a prolonged custody battle would be upsetting to the child, not that carrying for a special needs child on her own would be difficult.

[Anonymous]

I can't get over the fact that he didn't stand up to his parents when they were insulting his OWN children. This is unacceptable.

[Anonymous]

Okay your marriage started off bad, now that you are through the difficult MIL it should get better.

Give your husband time to privately grieve and move on. His dad will pass soon enough, and you still have to coparent either way. Work on forgiving and moving forward.

Simultaneously make a quiet plan to get out (finances in order, no large purchases). Just to have in your back pocket. Give your marriage six months or a year and then make a decision. Let the dust settle on his mother’s passing, the pandemic, and other shit from the past year. Make your decisions with a clear head and full knowledge that it was a planned out move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, first step here is I think you build support for yourself. Whatever ends up happening you will need strong support network. Get yourself into therapy ASAP. Take the time to speak to a few, have questions prepped. If you can meet 2x/week. Virtual is better than none. Please do this for yourself. You must care for yourself first and have a place to process the resentment to have a clearer mind and heart around decisions moving forward.

OP here. Thank you. You’re totally right. I was in therapy for a while and then got discouraged because talking about the situation while also living it was actually making me feel worse. I’m looking into a new therapist. Maybe some CBT to help my intrusive resentful thoughts might help. Most days, I am a nose to the grindstone kind of person who just goes about life. Today is a tough day because of an occasion coming up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I hear you. Could you document the racism in DH's social/family circles? Does anyone here think that would help/ensure a full custody arrangement?

I have A LOT of documentation. Over the years, I started writing his parents e-mails raising their racist comments with them. I also got copies of racist things they wrote about me. Not to mention so many other examples that aren't documented. But even then, nothing is guaranteed as far as custody goes. Lawyers I've consulted have told me that family court turns on the judge you get. Some white Boomer judge who is himself someone's racist in law might rule that DH has learned his lesson and can be trusted to share custody. Right now, with DH's relatives banned from the house and any FT conversations happening with my earshot, my children are safe. No more comments about how the boy has to be watched before his "other side" kicks in and he steals something. No more comments about my toddler daughter showing "slutty" tendencies. I kid you not. These people have said that and worse about my children while my husband did nothing. I will never forgive him, but I have to be pragmatic.

I'm no legal expert but if you have this documentation, wouldn't that be enough for at least a supervised visit with DH if he has the kids

OP here. One would think so. The divorce lawyer I hired is really good and I was fired up to go to court and be done with this bullshit until we started discussing custody. She says that there just aren’t enough cases like this for it to be clear that being subjected to racism by the extended family, instead of the actual parent, is enough. She also made very clear to me that there’s a difference between the court order on paper and what parents will comply with. I can spend the rest of my life dragging her to court for not complying with supervision.She also made very clear to me that there’s a difference between the court order on paper and what parents will comply with. I could spend the rest of my life dragging him to court for exposing the kids to his family unsupervised. I also wouldn’t know until after if he had them at his house while the kids were over. Her advice really took the wind out of my sails, but was confirmed by two other lawyers I also consulted. According to another lawyer, 20 years ago when the presumption was in favor of the mother getting custody, this would’ve been a slam dunk full custody case. The law has changed though.

You're in the same situation right now, and arguably worse. Right now your DH can bring your kids around his family at any time without any recourse. You can't be with them at all times. You'd have more options for him subjecting your kids to racial abuse if diorced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't get over the fact that he didn't stand up to his parents when they were insulting his OWN children. This is unacceptable.

Why would he? He never stood up for OP? He's just as racist as his family.

[Anonymous]

OP, since you’re clearly actively monitoring this thread- can you explain why you initially mentioned your older child being in second grade and subsequently changed your story to the kids being twins (when someone asked why you continued to have a second child with your husband)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, since you’re clearly actively monitoring this thread- can you explain why you initially mentioned your older child being in second grade and subsequently changed your story to the kids being twins (when someone asked why you continued to have a second child with your husband)?

OP here. I would explain it, but I can tell that you’re the same really aggressive person from the previous pages and you’re really being eaten up by this. So, I’m going to let you scroll through all these pages and figure it out yourself. Hint: Twins don’t come out at the same time and there’s something called cognitive age that doesn’t correspond to chronological age. Consider yourself lucky that you don’t know anything about that. Thanks for this round of gotcha!

[Anonymous]

The strangest thing about this thread is the focus on the dead MIL in the title, when she really has nothing to do with the current dilemma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, since you’re clearly actively monitoring this thread- can you explain why you initially mentioned your older child being in second grade and subsequently changed your story to the kids being twins (when someone asked why you continued to have a second child with your husband)?

OP here. I would explain it, but I can tell that you’re the same really aggressive person from the previous pages and you’re really being eaten up by this. So, I’m going to let you scroll through all these pages and figure it out yourself. Hint: Twins don’t come out at the same time and there’s something called cognitive age that doesn’t correspond to chronological age. Consider yourself lucky that you don’t know anything about that. Thanks for this round of gotcha!

No we're different posters. So go ahead and explain yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay your marriage started off bad, now that you are through the difficult MIL it should get better.

Give your husband time to privately grieve and move on. His dad will pass soon enough, and you still have to coparent either way. Work on forgiving and moving forward.

Simultaneously make a quiet plan to get out (finances in order, no large purchases). Just to have in your back pocket. Give your marriage six months or a year and then make a decision. Let the dust settle on his mother’s passing, the pandemic, and other shit from the past year. Make your decisions with a clear head and full knowledge that it was a planned out move.

OP here. Sometimes, I think that a new start is possible now that MIL is dead and I can just wait out FIL. The problem is that my feelings towards my husband have changed. I just don’t respect who he is. I think about all the times he stood there while these people were saying awful things to me and the kids as casually as you would pass somebody the potatoes. I think about how he has never had my back. Many times, if I could wave a magic wand and make him disappear, I would. It’s taking everything to be civil for the sake of the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, since you’re clearly actively monitoring this thread- can you explain why you initially mentioned your older child being in second grade and subsequently changed your story to the kids being twins (when someone asked why you continued to have a second child with your husband)?

OP here. I would explain it, but I can tell that you’re the same really aggressive person from the previous pages and you’re really being eaten up by this. So, I’m going to let you scroll through all these pages and figure it out yourself. Hint: Twins don’t come out at the same time and there’s something called cognitive age that doesn’t correspond to chronological age. Consider yourself lucky that you don’t know anything about that. Thanks for this round of gotcha!

No we're different posters. So go ahead and explain yourself.

OP here. I’m not explaining myself further to you, lol. Bye.

[Anonymous]

Black woman with white DH. Sister, I am going to tell you the truth that will be hard to hear: you cannot leave anytime soon. The cultural dislocation, loss of control over whom they see or don't see. What if your DH marries a racist woman of whom his family approves? Your kids will be eaten alive. When we married outside the race we gave ourselves a higher burden and a greater responsibility to stick by the father of our kids for their well-being. I feel you fully on not wanting to stay with your DH for excellent reason but if he wants to stay married you should make a 5-year plan that prominently features whatever it takes to get you through to the next stage -- self-care of any effective kind, therapy for you, developing more of those close friendships that bring you through tough times because you are stuck in the war zone for at least a few years. I wish you all the best.