Feeling extremely discouraged. A rant.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]I’m Pp-
Just read your response to other poster.
You were not mistaken. People kept asking you for details,$$$$
Then you are accused of divulging too much!
The sad thing is that you and husband are fighting over who has to spend time with the kids.
It just is sad. I don’t recall if u said how old they are but eventually they’ll know and feel they are a burden .
Does husband like being with the kids? Do you?
No other advice except that maybe it’s time to lay down what you can accept.
He says he won’t take on more childcare or a full time job?
What about you? Maybe you need to say you won’t accept that?[/quote]

OP here. Thank you. I don't understand why so many are jumping down my throat. I am not a perfect person nor will I ever profess to be.
I love being with my kids. I also need to remain employed and keep my stable job with excellent benefits.
I know that nothing is ever black and white, but...to state it again:

I am the only source of reliable, consistent income, and health insurance for my family, since 2017.
My kids stopped daycare due to the pandemic.
My husband lost 70% of his income due to job loss.
He has not pursued full time work.
He is unwilling to be a full time stay at home parent.
We split childcare, 50/50 or 60/40, depending on the week.
I buy 90% of groceries and cook/order dinner approx 5 nights a week.
I manage the mental load: out of diapers, milk, need a new car seat, purchase toys, books, etc.
No one asked me if I was ok with this arrangement: going from making 35% of the household income, to making 60%, with no change in sight.
Now add the temerity to tell me: "This schedule isn't working for me. I don't get enough extended breaks for myself."
He is young, able bodied, with advanced degrees.
I feel like he treats me like a stay at home mom- I am the default parent. Except I am the only source of reliable, consistent income, health insurance, and retirement.

I have never shared any of this before. With anyone. I'm too ashamed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huge red flag to me that OP is on DCUM posting *repeatedly* to vent details of specific financial and relationship issues. I agree with PPs who suggested couples counseling but:

OP, you need therapy. NOW. Like therapy just for you. I usually hate it when people come on these boards and just say "get therapy" but I really don't think there is any other solution to your problem. You need therapy and to do some work on yourself, your outlook on life, your feelings about your family (your spouse, yes, but also your family as a unit and what it means to you). You are just vibrating with anger and negativity and resentment. It's toxic. You need a way to get it out and I don't think posting here is going to get you there.

I can see how there are things about your situation with your DH that are problems and there are aspects of your situation where I agree that he isn't pulling his weight or is creating an unnecessary roadblock for your family. But it also doesn't sound like a straightforward case of "throw out the whole man." It sounds complicated. It sounds like he is great in some ways and a pain in other ways. It sounds like he's trying to contribute and share responsibility with you but that sometimes he falls short or does it in an inefficient or short-sighted way. In your posts, sometimes I relate to you, but other times I relate to him. Life is messy. Going through job loss is hard, and working part time can be a blessing and a curse, especially if you are also the primary caregiver to kids (I know his role very well). That doesn't mean he's right and you're wrong. It sounds like you are definitely right about some things. But your rage and resentment is the least productive way to fix the problems you've identified. I would venture that your rage and resentment are a much bigger problem in your marriage than his underemployment or even your struggles with allocating childcare responsibilities.

I think the only way you are going to solve any of the logistical and financial issues in your marriage is if you can spend some time addressing your anger and resentment, identify why these very normal marital conflicts are producing so much boiling anger, and then calmly approach the issues in your marriage with a collaborative spirit. Yelling at your partner (who, again, is providing the bulk of the childcare at the moment and appears to be struggling with some work and identity issues) until he acquiesces to your "my way or the highway" demands will not fix your problem. Even if he does everything you ask of him, you will have fixed nothing about your marriage. Do you understand that? His employment is not the issue, not really.

Op here. I posted with the specific income details because multiple people asked for them.
Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. Maybe I haven't been clear. Maybe my interpretation is wrong.

But I don't consider that he provides the bulk of childcare. I don't consider that I do either. We are splitting childcare just about 50/50. Some weeks 60/40. Today is a typical day. I have the kids for approx 6 hours total. He has the kids for approx 5 hours total. Today I handle breakfast and dinner. He handles lunch and snack. The difference is that I'm supposed to be teleworking from 9-5 for my salaried full-time job.

I asked him to either take on more childcare so that I can focus more on work, OR find full-time work, so we can comfortably outsource childcare.

He will not take on more childcare. Says he already does too mich. He will not find full-time work.

You do not have to give people something just because they act. You can say no or ignore the request. Often this is the healthiest choice.

But this is precisely what I'm talking about. I don't even disagree with you -- this sounds frustrating and hard. But why are you working so hard to convince *me* (or any of the posters on here) that you are right? What will that get you?

What if I told you right now that you are 100% correct, your husband is the worst, and that I agree with you that he should take one of the jobs you have told him to apply to. How does that help you? Even more, say that tomorrow he woke up and said "Ok, fine. I will take one of these jobs." Would that solve your marital problems? Would you suddenly become happy and stop resenting him?

What I'm saying is that your intensity on this thread indicates to me that this problem is not exclusively about him and his choices. Even if they are bad, which it sounds like they are! I'm saying that until you figure out what is going on *with you*, nothing I say, and nothing he does, is going to fix it. Why did you stay quiet about his underemployment for so many years? Why is your response to the current situation not working to yell on the internet instead of finding a way to calmly discuss with your husband, who actually has the ability to work with you on it? Why is the only acceptable outcome for you him doing something that it seems clear he doesn't want to do? Why haven't you been to couples therapy yet? Why don't you divorce him? You need to explore all of this.

Yes, his behavior sound problematic. But he's not here. You're behavior on this thread is throwing up all kinds of red flags for me, and it seems clear to me that you need real help sorting through your feelings and figuring out a productive way to move forward in your marriage. I do not think anyone on this thread can do that for you, no matter how many financial details you provide them with.

Op here. I WOULD BE THRILLED! If he took a full time job making 80k. I would honestly be thrilled. Why? Because we could get some consistency back. Get back into a routine. He could gain back confidence. I would be extremely thrilled to see him put what's best for the FAMILY first. Rather than continue this selfish hold out for the pie in the sky job. I would legitimately be thrilled to see him have a schedule, a busy day, a routine, instead of laying in bed watching tv at noon.

He has refused couples therapy this whole time. He agreed to it last night, for the first time.
In my heart I know I should leave. I should have left a long time ago. I don't want to explore that yet because of the kids.

[Anonymous]

So your DH is a real douche bag, patriarchal crapload, who doesn't want to share money nor does he want to take care of kids.
How are you going to pay for child care now?
How much money do you all have? I am guessing money is tight as all these could be solved by money, if you had plenty of it.
But, you likely don't.
If you tell us you do have a ton of money, then, the answer is the same as we give to moms who are overworked, hire it all out.
But, even if you have a ton of money, clearly both of you are not willing to split with your personal money due to this who pays what or who does what attitude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So your DH is a real douche bag, patriarchal crapload, who doesn't want to share money nor does he want to take care of kids.
How are you going to pay for child care now?
How much money do you all have? I am guessing money is tight as all these could be solved by money, if you had plenty of it.
But, you likely don't.
If you tell us you do have a ton of money, then, the answer is the same as we give to moms who are overworked, hire it all out.
But, even if you have a ton of money, clearly both of you are not willing to split with your personal money due to this who pays what or who does what attitude.

OP here. I'm researching childcare options today.
We paid for it pre-pandemic thru a joint account....the joint account that he wants to take money out of for another expense.

I know for my sanity and the kids' benefit, outsourcing childcare needs to happen ASAP.

I know some PPs have said that I am posting repeatedly, and it's psycho, unhealthy, I have anger issues etc.
In a a way, this has become a journal for me. I've never sat down and laid out my feelings on this. I have tried to push it away to not have to face reality.

Who wants to admit that your spouse is holding himself out as an entrepeneur, but after doing daycare drop off, was going home to work out, watch tv, and lay around?

I am going to work on shifting my mindset. I have to change my outlook, for myself. My inclination is to view getting childcare as abdication of his responsibilities. Instead, I really have to try and view it as: reliable and fun days for the kids, uninterrupted work time for me, and hopefully a little of the edge taken off at home.

[Anonymous]

He needs a full time job ASAP. And honestly, it seems like you are on the road to divorce. But you will both be financially worse off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Observation: nothing about your family and marriage appears to be "team" based but rather you vs husband. Each/both of you see everything as transactional and to be divided or jealously guarded--whether time with you kids (which , I get, little ones are hard, but where is together family time?); or your finances (I can't even really understand with the accounts, but that doesn't matter, the point is that each of you views the other as a threat--to time, to money/financial security, etc. You are each in a war and it is unwinnable and you are so far down the hole you can't get your way out without a ton of effort.

I dont have great advice, except your problems are bigger than divided weekend time or whatever. I also think the biggest source of your resentment is that your husband has not gotten a 'real' job in the past 4.5 years and refuses to consider anything that might just be a decent, good job for the family. That would infuriate me too. But I do not think you will get anywhere right now, during a pandemic, working from home, with small children, and this amount of anger. my suggestion is that for the time being, you get part time care for the kids. Yes, you feel like it gives your DH a pass but it also, for now, reduces the source of fighting and frankly you need to back off on that and take care of yourself. Secondly, it takes away his excuses for not working. Thirdly, you two need counseling.

Not sure you can save the marriage, but maybe. Honestly, though, I think that if i were you, I'd back off, no matter how angry you are and unfair it seems, get your kids out of the house for a good chunk of the day (or have a nanny from after nap to dinner time) and the funds for the nanny will come from joint funds and you'll have to cut back in other areas. If he balks, then he needs to be willing to entertain/watch/educate the kids from 9 am to 5 pm, while you are on your job. The rest of the time can be split evenly. This is the same advice I have for SAHP--during the regular work day, each parent is working, one out of the house and one in the house. THe rest of the time, kid and house duties should be split. SAHP should make reasonable effort to take care of house things during the day if possible, but that depends on ages of kids. etc.

Op here. Thank you for the long thoughtful reply. I agree, we are in a war. You are 100% correct, that the biggest source of my resentment is the lack of a "real" job, and maybe even moreso, the refusal to CONSIDER a real job. It is my fault for keeping this bottled up. I should have forced this conversation 3 years ago. A year ago. 6 months ago. Now the resentment is so deep I can't see out of it. I have said to him, begged, so many times over the last 4+ years. PLEASE seriously apply for and consider something stable, with benefits, with a predictable salary. So that YOU as a person and WE as a family can get back on track. Getting a regular paycheck and having a predictable schedule will go miles towards building back your confidence, building back savings, staying current with skills/resume, and making connections for the type of gig you really want. I HAVE BEGGED. I have legitimately prayed.

I'm in tears and angry as I write this. I've been lying to myself, my family and my friends. When people ask, I make his/our situation sound a lot more robust than it really is. My family keeps asking why he doesn't seems to want a "more traditional, predictable job and income." I lie and tell everyone that he takes on the lion share of child care and domestic responsibilities. No one knows that 4-6 weeks at a time go by with zero work projects, zero income. He happily spends several hours a week doing volunteer work for a charitable org. I have become resentful of even this. Time/energy for phone calls, fundraising, volunteer work, but where is the time/energy to get a

With a straight face, he asked me recently when would be the best time, schedule-wise, for him to go golfing with a friend during the week.

At the time he lost job, we were both salaried, he made 210k gross, without bonus. I made 110k.
Right now, I make 135k. His income changes every year, since he is only doing contract work. This past year was his highest gross, by far. 80k.

!!
best time to do this is on the weekend. During the week shoud be devoted to work, caring for kids, or looking for work!

[Anonymous]

I am going to work on shifting my mindset. I have to change my outlook, for myself. My inclination is to view getting childcare as abdication of his responsibilities. Instead, I really have to try and view it as: reliable and fun days for the kids, uninterrupted work time for me, and hopefully a little of the edge taken off at home.

This is golden. Begin here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huge red flag to me that OP is on DCUM posting *repeatedly* to vent details of specific financial and relationship issues. I agree with PPs who suggested couples counseling but:

OP, you need therapy. NOW. Like therapy just for you. I usually hate it when people come on these boards and just say "get therapy" but I really don't think there is any other solution to your problem. You need therapy and to do some work on yourself, your outlook on life, your feelings about your family (your spouse, yes, but also your family as a unit and what it means to you). You are just vibrating with anger and negativity and resentment. It's toxic. You need a way to get it out and I don't think posting here is going to get you there.

I can see how there are things about your situation with your DH that are problems and there are aspects of your situation where I agree that he isn't pulling his weight or is creating an unnecessary roadblock for your family. But it also doesn't sound like a straightforward case of "throw out the whole man." It sounds complicated. It sounds like he is great in some ways and a pain in other ways. It sounds like he's trying to contribute and share responsibility with you but that sometimes he falls short or does it in an inefficient or short-sighted way. In your posts, sometimes I relate to you, but other times I relate to him. Life is messy. Going through job loss is hard, and working part time can be a blessing and a curse, especially if you are also the primary caregiver to kids (I know his role very well). That doesn't mean he's right and you're wrong. It sounds like you are definitely right about some things. But your rage and resentment is the least productive way to fix the problems you've identified. I would venture that your rage and resentment are a much bigger problem in your marriage than his underemployment or even your struggles with allocating childcare responsibilities.

I think the only way you are going to solve any of the logistical and financial issues in your marriage is if you can spend some time addressing your anger and resentment, identify why these very normal marital conflicts are producing so much boiling anger, and then calmly approach the issues in your marriage with a collaborative spirit. Yelling at your partner (who, again, is providing the bulk of the childcare at the moment and appears to be struggling with some work and identity issues) until he acquiesces to your "my way or the highway" demands will not fix your problem. Even if he does everything you ask of him, you will have fixed nothing about your marriage. Do you understand that? His employment is not the issue, not really.

Op here. I posted with the specific income details because multiple people asked for them.
Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. Maybe I haven't been clear. Maybe my interpretation is wrong.

But I don't consider that he provides the bulk of childcare. I don't consider that I do either. We are splitting childcare just about 50/50. Some weeks 60/40. Today is a typical day. I have the kids for approx 6 hours total. He has the kids for approx 5 hours total. Today I handle breakfast and dinner. He handles lunch and snack. The difference is that I'm supposed to be teleworking from 9-5 for my salaried full-time job.

I asked him to either take on more childcare so that I can focus more on work, OR find full-time work, so we can comfortably outsource childcare.

He will not take on more childcare. Says he already does too mich. He will not find full-time work.

he isn't providing the bulk of anything. today you are doing 6 hrs of chiildcare, supposed to do 8 hours of a workday, and this is the norm? you are being taken advantage of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, to be clear OP, the underemployed part does not have anything to do with Covid, correct? I think that's an important point.

Oo here- dh lost his job in 2017 and has Been underemployed since then.
I feel so taken advantage of.

Boohoo. I carried my unemployed or underemployed (now ex-) wife for 21 years of marriage.

This isn’t something to brag about..

Men are expected to do this.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I’m Pp-
Just read your response to other poster.
You were not mistaken. People kept asking you for details,$$$$
Then you are accused of divulging too much!
The sad thing is that you and husband are fighting over who has to spend time with the kids.
It just is sad. I don’t recall if u said how old they are but eventually they’ll know and feel they are a burden .
Does husband like being with the kids? Do you?
No other advice except that maybe it’s time to lay down what you can accept.
He says he won’t take on more childcare or a full time job?
What about you? Maybe you need to say you won’t accept that?[/quote]

OP here. Thank you. I don't understand why so many are jumping down my throat. I am not a perfect person nor will I ever profess to be.
I love being with my kids. I also need to remain employed and keep my stable job with excellent benefits.
I know that nothing is ever black and white, but...to state it again:

[quote]I am the only source of reliable, consistent income, and health insurance for my family, since 2017.
My kids stopped daycare due to the pandemic.
My husband lost 70% of his income due to job loss.
He has not pursued full time work.
He is unwilling to be a full time stay at home parent.
We split childcare, 50/50 or 60/40, depending on the week.
I buy 90% of groceries and cook/order dinner approx 5 nights a week.
I manage the mental load: out of diapers, milk, need a new car seat, purchase toys, books, etc.
No one asked me if I was ok with this arrangement: going from making 35% of the household income, to making 60%, with no change in sight.
Now add the temerity to tell me: "This schedule isn't working for me. I don't get enough extended breaks for myself."
He is young, able bodied, with advanced degrees.
I feel like he treats me like a stay at home mom- I am the default parent. Except I am the only source of reliable, consistent income, health insurance, and retirement.

I have never shared any of this before. With anyone. I'm too ashamed. [/quote][/quote]

Damn. Hugs to you, OP. He is an ass.

[Anonymous]

So he doesn't want to work OR take care of the kids? So what does he think he needs to contribute to his family, his beauty?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So he doesn't want to work OR take care of the kids? So what does he think he needs to contribute to his family, his beauty?

#knowyourworth

Seriously, OP I feel for you. Getting childcare is definitely and I'm impressed with your mindset change - I know I'd be hard pressed to do that. Hugs you find your way through this!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he doesn't want to work OR take care of the kids? So what does he think he needs to contribute to his family, his beauty?

#knowyourworth

Seriously, OP I feel for you. Getting childcare is definitely and I'm impressed with your mindset change - I know I'd be hard pressed to do that. Hugs you find your way through this!

Op here. I have to just force myself to try and fake it. I don't know if this is denial or coping mechanism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But this is precisely what I'm talking about. I don't even disagree with you -- this sounds frustrating and hard. But why are you working so hard to convince *me* (or any of the posters on here) that you are right? What will that get you?

What if I told you right now that you are 100% correct, your husband is the worst, and that I agree with you that he should take one of the jobs you have told him to apply to. How does that help you? Even more, say that tomorrow he woke up and said "Ok, fine. I will take one of these jobs." Would that solve your marital problems? Would you suddenly become happy and stop resenting him?

Op here. I WOULD BE THRILLED! If he took a full time job making 80k. I would honestly be thrilled. Why? Because we could get some consistency back. Get back into a routine. He could gain back confidence. I would be extremely thrilled to see him put what's best for the FAMILY first. Rather than continue this selfish hold out for the pie in the sky job. I would legitimately be thrilled to see him have a schedule, a busy day, a routine, instead of laying in bed watching tv at noon.

I'm an NP following along, and when I got to the PP's hypothetical job situation, where she thinks she's "catching you" being disingenuous about the cause of your rage, I shouted "OF COURSE THAT WOULD SOLVE THEIR MARITAL PROBLEMS, YOU DUMMY!" PP is overcomplicating things. Your posts have been so straightforward and sympathetic, OP, I don't understand why you've gotten so much pushback.

In your shoes, I think I'd give him a deadline to get a full-time job or else divorce. He is destroying your marriage one day at a time. You might as well rip the bandaid off. But hopefully he'll get his head out of his ass in time.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thank you, PP. I feel at sp?)times like he is gaslighting me; like with the weeknd schedule/kids slept in late thing. I have even more gaslit/gaslighted? on here...with people saying his lack of employment wasn't the issue, but rather my reaction to/feeling about it.