Feeling extremely discouraged. A rant.

[Anonymous]

Wonder if this is our pp whose DH who took a job with a start-up company and is earning 150K instead of 600K he used to earn over 2 years before.
Though she is a SAHM, maybe she changed it up a bit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think part of what you’re seeing is that yours, mine and ours finances often don’t work long-term when the default is yours and mine, and ours is what each person chooses to put in (which clearly is what’s happening with you guys since you’re talking about him going months without contributing and he’s talking about you only giving the are minimum). You guys aren’t a team, which you could gloss over when things were going well, but are falling to pieces now that they’re not.

OP here. I agree. Not a team at all. Each of us is trying to "win."

[Anonymous]

You’re too angry with him to have these conversations. The one about your account is especially horrid. The way we present an idea or question matters. Aggressive beginning often is followed by defensive counter.

I agree with earlier poster. Instead of criticisms look for positives or you’re headed for a crash landing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am floored, disgusted, and legitimately taken aback.
DH and I had a conversation tonight about finances. ONe of our recurring expenses is going up several hundred dollars a month. It is an expense that we have always paid for proportionately. Background- we have always been a 3 account family: his mine ours. We both put into several joint accounts, and then we maintain our own separate money. I know that many people just do 1 big pot and don't maintain individual accounts, but that's never been our practice, just as background info.

In the conversation, DH asked what the breakdown would be for each of us. I told him. He then launched into a tirade. Stated that he should be able to pull out money from one of our children's savings accounts for HIS SHARE of the additional expense- for 2 reasons...1) that he is on a financial downswing and 2) because he was overly generous in his deposits to the account during a financial upswing several months ago.

I was so floored by this I didn't say a word.

He went on. Stated that I only contribute the minimum of my fair share to our various joint accounts, and he always goes above and beyond. And now, when he could use some financial help with an added expense, it's noteworthy that I'm not enthusiastic about alowing him to pull his amount due from a joint account.

He went on. Asked me to look at the deposit statements for the last 6 months. "I've deposited 4k into this account since October and you only deposited $800." I pointed out to him that yes, I "only" deposit several hundred dollars (without fail) every month. Versus him, who will deposit zero for 10 months and then make a large deposit if and when he has the money.

I calmly said to him that I was taken aback and extremely disappointed to hear such lack of appreciation considering I have carried the family for over 4 years. He said he feels the same lack of appreciation.

I asked to start couples counseling asap.

I am floored.

New PP. I am on your side for all the rest and would be as F* pissed as you are. Now on the joint spending, I have a similar system as you (mine/ours/yours accounts. I have always maintained that system because my DH makes careers choice out of passion and doesn’t feel an obligation to earn more money to support a particular lifestyle for our family (think save the world NGO job on a 9-5 schedule while I work in more cutthroat environment making more money and being way more stressed). I am ok with his choice but I want him to walk the talk And if he wants to plan crazy holidays or put solar panels on our house he cannot ask me to finance more than my share ( I am a saver, he is a spender) .

Anyway, this is all a preliminary to ask: do you have clear and fair rules regarding who puts what in the joint account? Over the past 12 months did you indeed end up putting way more? If yes, he obviously needs to shut up. If not, you are not being fair. But I would ask you to consider one more thing: in our arrangement, as I work longer hours and DH does the pick up and drop off, we also contribute proportionally to the joint account. We put the same % of our salaries... so I put more

OP here. We too implemented the 3 account system because our spending habits have always been wildly different. Think luxury car for him/eating out for lunch every day vs no car for me/generally brown bag. It was his idea to do 3 accounts, so that no one could dictate what to do with our own personal money, as long as we met obligations to the joint accounts.

He says "money is fungible" so he should be able to withdraw the "extra/above and beyond" he put into our kid's savings account when he's short on money now.

It makes me uncomfortable that a gift, if you will, is not being pitched as a loan. Money he wants to claw back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Childcare
Would paying for fulltime childcare be cheaper than divorce?
At least try it
Better for the kids

Op here. I’ve thought about this in the last few days, even as covid numbers spike in my state. It would definitely help me in terms of work and juggling the days. But isn’t that a get out of jail free card for dh? And who pays for childcare? Yet another financial responsibility for me?

I don’t understand. You are married so your income is joint. You say he is “underemployed.” What exactly does that mean?

He got laid off 4.5 years ago from a cushy well paying job. Since then, he has not held down full time employment. I send him job apps every week, and he turns down 99% of them because he “doesn’t want to work a regular 9-5 boring job.” He wants something cushy, glamorous, flashy like his old job. Think k street lobbyist expensing steak lunches, vs a government 9-5.

He takes on consulting contract jobs. Some months zero income and no work activity.. Some months decent income and moderate activity. At best he is making 35% of his prior salary. At best.

At his suggestion, “i can keep kids home right now while I’m under employed/not busy with projects.”

This is why I am extremely angry resentful and bitter. He will not step up and find steady employment to support his family. In the alternative, he fights to not have to do at least an equal share of childcare at home.

I hope this paints a clearer picture of my frustration and why I feel I’m being taken advantage of. Pushing back on the schedule today THAT HE ASKED FOR has pushed me over the edge.

I would get full time childcare ASAP. Tell him he needs to get full time employment within the next six months and contribute to half child care expenses. If he can't do this, DIVORCE. It sounds like he is a drain on the family.

[Anonymous]

Framing is everything.

[Anonymous]

You guys hate each other. Why are you doing this to yourselves?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You guys hate each other. Why are you doing this to yourselves?

Some people need to blow up their lives to create change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Observation: nothing about your family and marriage appears to be "team" based but rather you vs husband. Each/both of you see everything as transactional and to be divided or jealously guarded--whether time with you kids (which , I get, little ones are hard, but where is together family time?); or your finances (I can't even really understand with the accounts, but that doesn't matter, the point is that each of you views the other as a threat--to time, to money/financial security, etc. You are each in a war and it is unwinnable and you are so far down the hole you can't get your way out without a ton of effort.

I dont have great advice, except your problems are bigger than divided weekend time or whatever. I also think the biggest source of your resentment is that your husband has not gotten a 'real' job in the past 4.5 years and refuses to consider anything that might just be a decent, good job for the family. That would infuriate me too. But I do not think you will get anywhere right now, during a pandemic, working from home, with small children, and this amount of anger. my suggestion is that for the time being, you get part time care for the kids. Yes, you feel like it gives your DH a pass but it also, for now, reduces the source of fighting and frankly you need to back off on that and take care of yourself. Secondly, it takes away his excuses for not working. Thirdly, you two need counseling.

Not sure you can save the marriage, but maybe. Honestly, though, I think that if i were you, I'd back off, no matter how angry you are and unfair it seems, get your kids out of the house for a good chunk of the day (or have a nanny from after nap to dinner time) and the funds for the nanny will come from joint funds and you'll have to cut back in other areas. If he balks, then he needs to be willing to entertain/watch/educate the kids from 9 am to 5 pm, while you are on your job. The rest of the time can be split evenly. This is the same advice I have for SAHP--during the regular work day, each parent is working, one out of the house and one in the house. THe rest of the time, kid and house duties should be split. SAHP should make reasonable effort to take care of house things during the day if possible, but that depends on ages of kids. etc.

Op here. Thank you for the long thoughtful reply. I agree, we are in a war. You are 100% correct, that the biggest source of my resentment is the lack of a "real" job, and maybe even moreso, the refusal to CONSIDER a real job. It is my fault for keeping this bottled up. I should have forced this conversation 3 years ago. A year ago. 6 months ago. Now the resentment is so deep I can't see out of it. I have said to him, begged, so many times over the last 4+ years. PLEASE seriously apply for and consider something stable, with benefits, with a predictable salary. So that YOU as a person and WE as a family can get back on track. Getting a regular paycheck and having a predictable schedule will go miles towards building back your confidence, building back savings, staying current with skills/resume, and making connections for the type of gig you really want. I HAVE BEGGED. I have legitimately prayed.

I'm in tears and angry as I write this. I've been lying to myself, my family and my friends. When people ask, I make his/our situation sound a lot more robust than it really is. My family keeps asking why he doesn't seems to want a "more traditional, predictable job and income." I lie and tell everyone that he takes on the lion share of child care and domestic responsibilities. No one knows that 4-6 weeks at a time go by with zero work projects, zero income. He happily spends several hours a week doing volunteer work for a charitable org. I have become resentful of even this. Time/energy for phone calls, fundraising, volunteer work, but where is the time/energy to get a

With a straight face, he asked me recently when would be the best time, schedule-wise, for him to go golfing with a friend during the week.

At the time he lost job, we were both salaried, he made 210k gross, without bonus. I made 110k.
Right now, I make 135k. His income changes every year, since he is only doing contract work. This past year was his highest gross, by far. 80k.

[Anonymous]

Huge red flag to me that OP is on DCUM posting *repeatedly* to vent details of specific financial and relationship issues. I agree with PPs who suggested couples counseling but:

OP, you need therapy. NOW. Like therapy just for you. I usually hate it when people come on these boards and just say "get therapy" but I really don't think there is any other solution to your problem. You need therapy and to do some work on yourself, your outlook on life, your feelings about your family (your spouse, yes, but also your family as a unit and what it means to you). You are just vibrating with anger and negativity and resentment. It's toxic. You need a way to get it out and I don't think posting here is going to get you there.

I can see how there are things about your situation with your DH that are problems and there are aspects of your situation where I agree that he isn't pulling his weight or is creating an unnecessary roadblock for your family. But it also doesn't sound like a straightforward case of "throw out the whole man." It sounds complicated. It sounds like he is great in some ways and a pain in other ways. It sounds like he's trying to contribute and share responsibility with you but that sometimes he falls short or does it in an inefficient or short-sighted way. In your posts, sometimes I relate to you, but other times I relate to him. Life is messy. Going through job loss is hard, and working part time can be a blessing and a curse, especially if you are also the primary caregiver to kids (I know his role very well). That doesn't mean he's right and you're wrong. It sounds like you are definitely right about some things. But your rage and resentment is the least productive way to fix the problems you've identified. I would venture that your rage and resentment are a much bigger problem in your marriage than his underemployment or even your struggles with allocating childcare responsibilities.

I think the only way you are going to solve any of the logistical and financial issues in your marriage is if you can spend some time addressing your anger and resentment, identify why these very normal marital conflicts are producing so much boiling anger, and then calmly approach the issues in your marriage with a collaborative spirit. Yelling at your partner (who, again, is providing the bulk of the childcare at the moment and appears to be struggling with some work and identity issues) until he acquiesces to your "my way or the highway" demands will not fix your problem. Even if he does everything you ask of him, you will have fixed nothing about your marriage. Do you understand that? His employment is not the issue, not really.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Huge red flag to me that OP is on DCUM posting *repeatedly* to vent details of specific financial and relationship issues. I agree with PPs who suggested couples counseling but:

OP, you need therapy. NOW. Like therapy just for you. I usually hate it when people come on these boards and just say "get therapy" but I really don't think there is any other solution to your problem. You need therapy and to do some work on yourself, your outlook on life, your feelings about your family (your spouse, yes, but also your family as a unit and what it means to you). You are just vibrating with anger and negativity and resentment. It's toxic. You need a way to get it out and I don't think posting here is going to get you there.

I can see how there are things about your situation with your DH that are problems and there are aspects of your situation where I agree that he isn't pulling his weight or is creating an unnecessary roadblock for your family. But it also doesn't sound like a straightforward case of "throw out the whole man." It sounds complicated. It sounds like he is great in some ways and a pain in other ways. It sounds like he's trying to contribute and share responsibility with you but that sometimes he falls short or does it in an inefficient or short-sighted way. In your posts, sometimes I relate to you, but other times I relate to him. Life is messy. Going through job loss is hard, and working part time can be a blessing and a curse, especially if you are also the primary caregiver to kids (I know his role very well). That doesn't mean he's right and you're wrong. It sounds like you are definitely right about some things. But your rage and resentment is the least productive way to fix the problems you've identified. I would venture that your rage and resentment are a much bigger problem in your marriage than his underemployment or even your struggles with allocating childcare responsibilities.

I think the only way you are going to solve any of the logistical and financial issues in your marriage is if you can spend some time addressing your anger and resentment, identify why these very normal marital conflicts are producing so much boiling anger, and then calmly approach the issues in your marriage with a collaborative spirit. Yelling at your partner (who, again, is providing the bulk of the childcare at the moment and appears to be struggling with some work and identity issues) until he acquiesces to your "my way or the highway" demands will not fix your problem. Even if he does everything you ask of him, you will have fixed nothing about your marriage. Do you understand that? His employment is not the issue, not really.

Op here. I posted with the specific income details because multiple people asked for them.
Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. Maybe I haven't been clear. Maybe my interpretation is wrong.

But I don't consider that he provides the bulk of childcare. I don't consider that I do either. We are splitting childcare just about 50/50. Some weeks 60/40. Today is a typical day. I have the kids for approx 6 hours total. He has the kids for approx 5 hours total. Today I handle breakfast and dinner. He handles lunch and snack. The difference is that I'm supposed to be teleworking from 9-5 for my salaried full-time job.

I asked him to either take on more childcare so that I can focus more on work, OR find full-time work, so we can comfortably outsource childcare.

He will not take on more childcare. Says he already does too mich. He will not find full-time work.

[Anonymous]

[quote]Huge red flag to me that OP is on DCUM posting *repeatedly* to vent details of specific financial and relationship issues. I agree with PPs who suggested couples counseling but:

OP, you need therapy. NOW. Like therapy just for you. I usually hate it when people come on these boards and just say "get therapy" but I really don't think there is any other solution to your problem. You need therapy and to do some work on yourself, your outlook on life, your feelings about your family (your spouse, yes, but also your family as a unit and what it means to you). You are just vibrating with anger and negativity and resentment. It's toxic. You need a way to get it out and I don't think posting here is going to get you there.

I can see how there are things about your situation with your DH that are problems and there are aspects of your situation where I agree that he isn't pulling his weight or is creating an unnecessary roadblock for your family. But it also doesn't sound like a straightforward case of "throw out the whole man." It sounds complicated. It sounds like he is great in some ways and a pain in other ways. It sounds like he's trying to contribute and share responsibility with you but that sometimes he falls short or does it in an inefficient or short-sighted way. In your posts, sometimes I relate to you, but other times I relate to him. Life is messy. Going through job loss is hard, and working part time can be a blessing and a curse, especially if you are also the primary caregiver to kids (I know his role very well). That doesn't mean he's right and you're wrong. It sounds like you are definitely right about some things. But your rage and resentment is the least productive way to fix the problems you've identified. I would venture that your rage and resentment are a much bigger problem in your marriage than his underemployment or even your struggles with allocating childcare responsibilities.

I think the only way you are going to solve any of the logistical and financial issues in your marriage is if you can spend some time addressing your anger and resentment, identify why these very normal marital conflicts are producing so much boiling anger, and then calmly approach the issues in your marriage with a collaborative spirit. Yelling at your partner (who, again, is providing the bulk of the childcare at the moment and appears to be struggling with some work and identity issues) until he acquiesces to your "my way or the highway" demands will not fix your problem. Even if he does everything you ask of him, you will have fixed nothing about your marriage. Do you understand that? His employment is not the issue, not really.[/quote]

TOTALLY DISAGREE. OP has already explained it’s been bottled up for years! She SHOULD be angry! From what she has described several times, he is not respecting her requests to get a job! And pull his weight!
What is it with some of these responders? What has she done to be blamed for her frustration and anger? OP- the only thing you have done wrong is let it get to the point where you are so angry that you have to vent here. Is there anyone in your personal circle who know him , knows you that can listen and help you?

[Anonymous]

I’m Pp-
Just read your response to other poster.
You were not mistaken. People kept asking you for details,$$$$
Then you are accused of divulging too much!
The sad thing is that you and husband are fighting over who has to spend time with the kids.
It just is sad. I don’t recall if u said how old they are but eventually they’ll know and feel they are a burden .
Does husband like being with the kids? Do you?
No other advice except that maybe it’s time to lay down what you can accept.
He says he won’t take on more childcare or a full time job?
What about you? Maybe you need to say you won’t accept that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huge red flag to me that OP is on DCUM posting *repeatedly* to vent details of specific financial and relationship issues. I agree with PPs who suggested couples counseling but:

OP, you need therapy. NOW. Like therapy just for you. I usually hate it when people come on these boards and just say "get therapy" but I really don't think there is any other solution to your problem. You need therapy and to do some work on yourself, your outlook on life, your feelings about your family (your spouse, yes, but also your family as a unit and what it means to you). You are just vibrating with anger and negativity and resentment. It's toxic. You need a way to get it out and I don't think posting here is going to get you there.

I can see how there are things about your situation with your DH that are problems and there are aspects of your situation where I agree that he isn't pulling his weight or is creating an unnecessary roadblock for your family. But it also doesn't sound like a straightforward case of "throw out the whole man." It sounds complicated. It sounds like he is great in some ways and a pain in other ways. It sounds like he's trying to contribute and share responsibility with you but that sometimes he falls short or does it in an inefficient or short-sighted way. In your posts, sometimes I relate to you, but other times I relate to him. Life is messy. Going through job loss is hard, and working part time can be a blessing and a curse, especially if you are also the primary caregiver to kids (I know his role very well). That doesn't mean he's right and you're wrong. It sounds like you are definitely right about some things. But your rage and resentment is the least productive way to fix the problems you've identified. I would venture that your rage and resentment are a much bigger problem in your marriage than his underemployment or even your struggles with allocating childcare responsibilities.

I think the only way you are going to solve any of the logistical and financial issues in your marriage is if you can spend some time addressing your anger and resentment, identify why these very normal marital conflicts are producing so much boiling anger, and then calmly approach the issues in your marriage with a collaborative spirit. Yelling at your partner (who, again, is providing the bulk of the childcare at the moment and appears to be struggling with some work and identity issues) until he acquiesces to your "my way or the highway" demands will not fix your problem. Even if he does everything you ask of him, you will have fixed nothing about your marriage. Do you understand that? His employment is not the issue, not really.

Op here. I posted with the specific income details because multiple people asked for them.
Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. Maybe I haven't been clear. Maybe my interpretation is wrong.

But I don't consider that he provides the bulk of childcare. I don't consider that I do either. We are splitting childcare just about 50/50. Some weeks 60/40. Today is a typical day. I have the kids for approx 6 hours total. He has the kids for approx 5 hours total. Today I handle breakfast and dinner. He handles lunch and snack. The difference is that I'm supposed to be teleworking from 9-5 for my salaried full-time job.

I asked him to either take on more childcare so that I can focus more on work, OR find full-time work, so we can comfortably outsource childcare.

He will not take on more childcare. Says he already does too mich. He will not find full-time work.

You do not have to give people something just because they act. You can say no or ignore the request. Often this is the healthiest choice.

But this is precisely what I'm talking about. I don't even disagree with you -- this sounds frustrating and hard. But why are you working so hard to convince *me* (or any of the posters on here) that you are right? What will that get you?

What if I told you right now that you are 100% correct, your husband is the worst, and that I agree with you that he should take one of the jobs you have told him to apply to. How does that help you? Even more, say that tomorrow he woke up and said "Ok, fine. I will take one of these jobs." Would that solve your marital problems? Would you suddenly become happy and stop resenting him?

What I'm saying is that your intensity on this thread indicates to me that this problem is not exclusively about him and his choices. Even if they are bad, which it sounds like they are! I'm saying that until you figure out what is going on *with you*, nothing I say, and nothing he does, is going to fix it. Why did you stay quiet about his underemployment for so many years? Why is your response to the current situation not working to yell on the internet instead of finding a way to calmly discuss with your husband, who actually has the ability to work with you on it? Why is the only acceptable outcome for you him doing something that it seems clear he doesn't want to do? Why haven't you been to couples therapy yet? Why don't you divorce him? You need to explore all of this.

Yes, his behavior sound problematic. But he's not here. You're behavior on this thread is throwing up all kinds of red flags for me, and it seems clear to me that you need real help sorting through your feelings and figuring out a productive way to move forward in your marriage. I do not think anyone on this thread can do that for you, no matter how many financial details you provide them with.

[Anonymous]

Get childcare for the kids. Get counseling for yourself and find a marriage counselor. You two are a hot mess. I don't think anything anyone says here can help you. As pp's have said, you two are operating as independent entities who don't particularly like each other. That's a horrible way to run a marriage.