Being a working parent (during non-pandemic times) - is it as bad as it seems?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not easy, but it's doable. Few key things, at least for me:

1) Sleep train right at 4 months. The miserable parents I knew were still getting up multiple times a night (!!) with their 18 month olds (!!) Four months is bad enough.
2) Equal partner. Truly, equal. Not "does his half when you remind him but you have to keep track of everything"
3) Short commute. Ours is 35 mins, and that's as high as I would go.
4) Actually work 40 hours a week. Both of you. Working a late night once every week or two when you're childless, just because something came up, or because you weren't all that productive during the day, is no big deal. When you have a kid, it's a PITA. I would say an occasional hour or two of work after hours can be okay IF it's flexible, and you can do it after the baby goes to bed.
5) Parental leave. Both my husband and I have 12 weeks of leave (each), and the majority is paid. We took every last day. Two weeks together at the beginning, then 10 weeks just me, then 10 weeks just him. That way, by the time kid is off to childcare, he's also sleep trained (see point 1) and you're both getting full nights of sleep.

With all that? We are loving parenthood and planning for a large family!

All of this especially the sleep training. After your kid is four months old, it’s truly your choice if absent illness or a rare event, you aren’t getting a decent nights sleep.

The sleep training thing is such BS. Infant sleep depends on a million factors. My kid performed all the motions of a good sleeper - took to her crib/room immediately, didn't need to be rocked/held to sleep - but she did not stay asleep all night until she was a year+ old. Every developmental milestone messed with her sleeping, and she was a light napper. Sometimes there's nothing you can do. LOL at "planning for a large family" b/c odds are at least one of your children won't sleep.

That’s what you don’t understand. Some of us don’t put up with children who don’t sleep. I’m not tending to a 10 month old all night anymore than my ten year old. After a certain point, kids in our household are taught that we sleep at night and don’t disturb the rest of the family. End of story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a 6 y.o and 2 y.o and both work and have no local family. It's totally fine (I mean, we are busy and it's hard work but we didn't expect having kids would involve much sitting on the beach, sipping margaritas). The KEY is that both of us have flexible schedules. We both work a lot but can almost control our schedules fully except for morning meetings and an occasional afternoon meeting. Our hhi is $300k and we had kids in our late 30's though. In non-covid times, we employed a nanny ($60k) and had no other help except cleaners twice a month. In covid times, we have literally had no help except cleaners every 2-3 months. We are both healthy and energetic, which I think makes a big difference. We never had the kids in a million activities (only one each), and plan to continue that after things normalize. We live close in but in a rowhouse condo, so no big house and yard, and our kids will go to public school (DCPS).

Lol. It's fine to have kids in the DC region provided you both have flexible jobs making $300k and can hire a nanny for $60/year. What's the big deal, OP?

Well, OP is making $200k HHI now, we were under that when we started our family. The "target market" in this post is not low income. By the way, I grew up poor (though never hungry, etc.) and my parents had two kids and both worked. Different context, though, so I didn't mention how they figured it out.

Anyway, someone else mentioned special needs. I think health is a huge factor, both the parents' and the kids' and this includes mental health.

But above all, as yet another PP noted, if you really want kids, you should have them. And if you don't, you should not. This is not a calculation you can make the way you decide whether or not to buy a particular car.

Being able to.afford a $60k nanny means your life wasn't typical. Even for someone making $200k. No student loans I take it?

[Anonymous]

I don't think anyone has mentioned waiting till you're the boss. That's what made it work for me. Had a solid income. Already owned a house. And I didn't have to worry about whether I'd be given permission to take time away when I needed to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a 6 y.o and 2 y.o and both work and have no local family. It's totally fine (I mean, we are busy and it's hard work but we didn't expect having kids would involve much sitting on the beach, sipping margaritas). The KEY is that both of us have flexible schedules. We both work a lot but can almost control our schedules fully except for morning meetings and an occasional afternoon meeting. Our hhi is $300k and we had kids in our late 30's though. In non-covid times, we employed a nanny ($60k) and had no other help except cleaners twice a month. In covid times, we have literally had no help except cleaners every 2-3 months. We are both healthy and energetic, which I think makes a big difference. We never had the kids in a million activities (only one each), and plan to continue that after things normalize. We live close in but in a rowhouse condo, so no big house and yard, and our kids will go to public school (DCPS).

Lol. It's fine to have kids in the DC region provided you both have flexible jobs making $300k and can hire a nanny for $60/year. What's the big deal, OP?

Well, OP is making $200k HHI now, we were under that when we started our family. The "target market" in this post is not low income. By the way, I grew up poor (though never hungry, etc.) and my parents had two kids and both worked. Different context, though, so I didn't mention how they figured it out.

Anyway, someone else mentioned special needs. I think health is a huge factor, both the parents' and the kids' and this includes mental health.

But above all, as yet another PP noted, if you really want kids, you should have them. And if you don't, you should not. This is not a calculation you can make the way you decide whether or not to buy a particular car.

Being able to.afford a $60k nanny means your life wasn't typical. Even for someone making $200k. No student loans I take it?

OP here. $60k/year would be more than half of our take home pay. We would be able to pay for our housing costs along with that and literally nothing else.

[Anonymous]

I think it really depends on the support system you have and the jobs you're working. You can't sanely work all hours and dedicate yourself to your job with kids and expect to be happy. But you can find a way to balance it. Maybe you or your partners takes a step back for a bit - or you work PT for a while instead of FT.

I worked PT in a demanding job, but being PT was manageable when my kids were really little. Just ramped up to FT right before the pandemic, and now I'm miserable because we have minimal childcare. I wish I were still PT and might even go back to it in a year or two when I can (am on contract now).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it really depends on the support system you have and the jobs you're working. You can't sanely work all hours and dedicate yourself to your job with kids and expect to be happy. But you can find a way to balance it. Maybe you or your partners takes a step back for a bit - or you work PT for a while instead of FT.

I worked PT in a demanding job, but being PT was manageable when my kids were really little. Just ramped up to FT right before the pandemic, and now I'm miserable because we have minimal childcare. I wish I were still PT and might even go back to it in a year or two when I can (am on contract now).

Agree with this.

I also think you need to be honest with yourself about what makes you happy.

Does your job make you happy? If not, does the money make you happy? That's really important information to have and be real about before you have a kid. If you plan to both stay in your jobs, you better enjoy working on some level. Because it's hard to balance with having a child.

For me, my child brought me waaaaaay more joy than work. And I don't just mean the existence of my child, I mean the act of being with her and parenting. It was hard at times, but I found it much, much more satisfying than my work. And as a result, I pretty much immediately changed my work. Did something similar to this PP (moved to PP, and a WFH position, so that I could maximize my time with my child). I had friends who said "Oh no, don't quit your job, don't scale back, you just have to get through this tricky part right now and then you'll be so glad you stayed." I think they said that because they liked their work more than I did, and also maybe didn't enjoy the day-to-day of caring for a baby as much as I did (and no judgment there -- not wanting to SAH with a baby does not make you a bad parent, it's a perfectly reasonable preference).

Anyway, you just have to know yourself and find your own path. 90% of the posts on this thread are trying to give you a roadmap, and honestly? It's BS. You have to make your own map, and only you know what your priorities are or what's going to work best for you.

The one thing I will tell you is that I was unsure about having kids for many of the same reasons you are worried, and I have never, for a single moment, regretted having my kid. She is the light of my life and I know it sounds cheesy, but all the challenges are worth it because my relationship with my kid, and the family relationship between my DH, my kid, and me, is the most rewarding thing I've ever done. I don't know how other people feel, but for me, it's all absolutely worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not easy, but it's doable. Few key things, at least for me:

1) Sleep train right at 4 months. The miserable parents I knew were still getting up multiple times a night (!!) with their 18 month olds (!!) Four months is bad enough.
2) Equal partner. Truly, equal. Not "does his half when you remind him but you have to keep track of everything"
3) Short commute. Ours is 35 mins, and that's as high as I would go.
4) Actually work 40 hours a week. Both of you. Working a late night once every week or two when you're childless, just because something came up, or because you weren't all that productive during the day, is no big deal. When you have a kid, it's a PITA. I would say an occasional hour or two of work after hours can be okay IF it's flexible, and you can do it after the baby goes to bed.
5) Parental leave. Both my husband and I have 12 weeks of leave (each), and the majority is paid. We took every last day. Two weeks together at the beginning, then 10 weeks just me, then 10 weeks just him. That way, by the time kid is off to childcare, he's also sleep trained (see point 1) and you're both getting full nights of sleep.

With all that? We are loving parenthood and planning for a large family!

All of this especially the sleep training. After your kid is four months old, it’s truly your choice if absent illness or a rare event, you aren’t getting a decent nights sleep.

The sleep training thing is such BS. Infant sleep depends on a million factors. My kid performed all the motions of a good sleeper - took to her crib/room immediately, didn't need to be rocked/held to sleep - but she did not stay asleep all night until she was a year+ old. Every developmental milestone messed with her sleeping, and she was a light napper. Sometimes there's nothing you can do. LOL at "planning for a large family" b/c odds are at least one of your children won't sleep.

That’s what you don’t understand. Some of us don’t put up with children who don’t sleep. I’m not tending to a 10 month old all night anymore than my ten year old. After a certain point, kids in our household are taught that we sleep at night and don’t disturb the rest of the family. End of story.

You sound very angry. Your poor kid did not ask to be born to you. And he did not get born to screw up your happiness either. Seek help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't sound like parent material OP. Most people are excited and look forward to having kids. If you view them as disruptive and difficult, they aren't for you. If you like your life now, don't have kids. Your life will never be the same and that's the point.

Ha ha! On the other hand, unhappy people make unhappy parents. You should love your life and enjoy your life so that you do not have any regrets. You should have a great stong marriage because having kids will test your marriage. You should be a responsible person. You should work out your issues in therapy before you have a kid. Then you should go and have a kid because you both will not be able to feel this kind of love for anyone else in your life.

My neighbor's DD married and then bought a house close to her parents house. Smart girl.

People have children all the time - in good and bad circumstances. If you want things to be less painful, you have to simplify your life, have a plan, have lots of help, be ok financially. It is perfectly ok to live in a rented apartment and not have the burden of home maintainence of a debt. Don't follow what people are telling you - it is your child and you should bond the way you find it nurturing.

I nursed, I did not let the baby CIO, I co-slept, I rocked the baby when the baby needed to be rocked and I held my baby when the baby needed to be held. DH and I, took help from my family, my ILs, my parents and friends. We simplified our lives and did not take on anything that we could not handle or which would take time and energy away from the baby. No to the swimming pool, no to the pets, no to the two-seater car. DH and I also worked staggered shifts so that we could be with the baby. We worked so that we could have a family - our child was not an inconvenience for us, and not an afterthought. Our priority was always our family and we have been very successful in parenting as well in our own lives too.

If you have a kid, then love and enjoy the kid. That is the whole point.

[Anonymous]

My DH and I both worked full time and raised two successful kids. The pandemic won’t last forever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't sound like parent material OP. Most people are excited and look forward to having kids. If you view them as disruptive and difficult, they aren't for you. If you like your life now, don't have kids. Your life will never be the same and that's the point.

You sound jealous that OP is trying to make sure she enjoys parenting. Did you make bad choices like have an inflexible job, marry a man child or stay awake all night ?

She said she's already decided on having a baby. She just seems to want to know how to make her life as easy as she seems to want it to be. Her life will never be the same and unless you have tons of money to throw at it, she will be tired, rushed, overwhelmed, etc all or part of the time. I am a single mom and I love it. I actually took a nice nap this weekend so all is good here.

[Anonymous]

Yes. It's also bad with a SAHP, who will be exhausted all the time and suffering for $. Parenting is the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not easy, but it's doable. Few key things, at least for me:

1) Sleep train right at 4 months. The miserable parents I knew were still getting up multiple times a night (!!) with their 18 month olds (!!) Four months is bad enough.
2) Equal partner. Truly, equal. Not "does his half when you remind him but you have to keep track of everything"
3) Short commute. Ours is 35 mins, and that's as high as I would go.
4) Actually work 40 hours a week. Both of you. Working a late night once every week or two when you're childless, just because something came up, or because you weren't all that productive during the day, is no big deal. When you have a kid, it's a PITA. I would say an occasional hour or two of work after hours can be okay IF it's flexible, and you can do it after the baby goes to bed.
5) Parental leave. Both my husband and I have 12 weeks of leave (each), and the majority is paid. We took every last day. Two weeks together at the beginning, then 10 weeks just me, then 10 weeks just him. That way, by the time kid is off to childcare, he's also sleep trained (see point 1) and you're both getting full nights of sleep.

With all that? We are loving parenthood and planning for a large family!

All of this especially the sleep training. After your kid is four months old, it’s truly your choice if absent illness or a rare event, you aren’t getting a decent nights sleep.

The sleep training thing is such BS. Infant sleep depends on a million factors. My kid performed all the motions of a good sleeper - took to her crib/room immediately, didn't need to be rocked/held to sleep - but she did not stay asleep all night until she was a year+ old. Every developmental milestone messed with her sleeping, and she was a light napper. Sometimes there's nothing you can do. LOL at "planning for a large family" b/c odds are at least one of your children won't sleep.

That’s what you don’t understand. Some of us don’t put up with children who don’t sleep. I’m not tending to a 10 month old all night anymore than my ten year old. After a certain point, kids in our household are taught that we sleep at night and don’t disturb the rest of the family. End of story.

You sound very angry. Your poor kid did not ask to be born to you. And he did not get born to screw up your happiness either. Seek help.

NP and yes the tone is off, but the message is right. Barring special needs or illness, etc, your kid can sleep through the night after 4 months. It takes some encouraging and training, but if you can get them there early, they will be on track to be great sleepers for their childhood. In our home, anytime between roughly 8 pm-7 am is kid night time, and all three kids got there despite starting out with different baseline sleep tendencies. If DH or I are tired, it's usually our fault because we stayed up too late ourselves. Not every night is perfect, but this is the routine. They are happy, well rested, well adjusted kids. 7, 5 and 2 y.o.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Buy a home you can afford on one salary in a school district you like. Everything else will be fine. 90% of the problems on here come from being house poor.

Ehhhh I think a lot of problems stem from having really long, miserable commutes. Spending a bit more to be close to work makes life a million times easier. But if you can afford a house near work with just one salary then yes, totally do that.

Any money you save from buying a cheaper house with a long commute will be thrown at outsourcing stuff because you’re never home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not miserable at all. Key factors:
- WFH 2x a week, fairly flexible hours the rest of the week to avoid traffic
- A great nanny, and a Mom nearby who could be around and help

Oh, AND
- An equal partner with respect to childcare and housework

+1
I have been able to work remotely for years. My mom lives with us and I have a cleaning lady who comes twice a week and a cooking/prep lady who comes for 3 hours on the weekend.

When kids were little, a nanny came and worked under the eagle eye of my mom. When they were 3 years old, we put them in a montessori school (paid full time, but used it 1/2 day for socialization only). Nanny came for part of the day. Mom supervised. I had basically 4 backups for childcare. Me, my mom, nanny and montessori school.

DH is very involved dad and does not hesitate to help or to she'll the money out to outsource.

Kids are in HS now, and I still have the cleaning lady come. My cooking person now cooks and delivers...slightly more work and inconvenience during the pandemic but no where near what employed people without childcare are facing.

Oh, also, for very long time, all my earnings was going towards paying for help...All. this was for years. We do not live in an expensive neighborhood of MoCo.

How did your kids turn out? This sounds genius.

[Anonymous]

Yes. It’s genius because she outsourced basically everything her life: parenting, cooking, cleaning...while just working from home!