The Last Skywalker— with Spoilers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read this about the whole "why did everyone forget about the Jedi" thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/53ue24/why_did_everyone_forget_about_the_jedi_and_sith/

You all seem to not have a sense of how enormous the Star Wars galaxy is, and how disjointed it became after the Clone Wars.

At its peak, there were estimated to be about 10,000 Jedi. That's not nearly enough for most people to have known who they were. It's possible many people in the galaxy wouldn't have necessarily known about the Clone Wars.

The separatist movement alone in the prequels comprised thousands of planets. This galaxy is on a scale you aren't fully appreciating.

Lol. Okay fanboy. Yet, remarkably for all that massive distance and size, all the core characters magically ran into each other. But sure, nobody else in the rest of the universe had the same freakish luck, and nobody in the fighting forces in any of the middle three knew anything about the events in the first three.

Huh? I don't know what you're talking about when it comes to "core characters running into each other." The story is naturally about people who interact with one another. By interacting with one another, they become core characters. What you're saying is a logical tautology.

Again -- when would people have shared these war stories? While the rebel fighters are trying to destroy the Death Star, are they supposed to be saying, "oh man, remember when the clone wars happened? That sht was sick."

Finally, I'm actually a fangirl who happens to dislike it when people throw around illogical criticisms of these things. There are plenty of legit criticisms of Star Wars; this isn't one of them.

[Anonymous]

It's just a stupid criticism. Just because they didn't go around talking about these things doesn't mean they didn't know anything about them. You can easily explain why Luke, Leia, and C-3PO didn't know about them. Chewbacca can't even speak English. Obi Wan was manipulating Luke by not wanting him to know about any of it.

But I guess we're supposed to hear some random fighters talking about it? Or Lando, who was infamously dodgy with talking about his past?

[Anonymous]

I want to actually clarify something: Are you actually saying there are LITERALLY no references because you can't be more wrong. Here are two:

Luke Skywalker: You fought in the Clone Wars?
Ben Kenobi: Yes, I was once a Jedi Knight the same as your father.

Now, of course Ben isn't that forthright about his past, but there's one reference.

But here's perhaps the most egregious one that I have to believe you realize exists:

General Kenobi. Years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars. Now he begs you to help him in his struggle against the Empire. -- Leia's freaking message to Kenobi in a new hope

So I just want to clarify that you're talking about wanting more expansive references than those two?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Oh no we have a SJW on dcum going on and going that people dislike the movie because of the female lead! That is what Disney is using as their excuse and they even attack the fans with it. The reality is that critics of the new trilogy have voices valid objections, and we can see that JJ and Disney know they screwed up with this trilogy due to lack of direction. Trilogy is supposed to have a story arc and they had no outline and nothing planned ahead. That is why JJ had to spend time fixing things and had a frantic movie this time. If it was not for Riddley and Driver being great actors, this movie would be much worse off. They uplift it.
We always knew Luke's and Anakin's motivaion for doing what they did. Luke's aunt and uncle were burned to crisp by the Empire. Anakin was a slave and wanted to save Padme(turns out from himself, and his dark side was shown in the AoC.) One movie Rey is set to hear Anakin/Luke's lightsaber, next one she is nobody, third one she is a Palpatine! Lack of direction in these movies is what fans object to and critics this time too! Ridley is a great actor, she did the best she could in a role that had no motivation at all. Kylo had a better story arc. The fact is the did not make this a new not connected trilogy, they played it as an end to all the Skywalker Star Wars movies, you can't just ignore everything that came before. It is poor writing for kick only to invent a new force skill to get your our of poor writing.

I dunno. The only thing I think that was ignored were the dead ends from movie 8. The rest of it was tied in well.

I though there was a much bigger continuity gap between the prequels and eps 4-6 than between 7-9 and the rest.

What were the gaps in 1-6?

The biggest gaps are the major plot points in the first three that are just forgotten in 4-6. It's jarring to see how little of the prequels appear in 4-6, yet there is only a 20-year gap, supposedly. It makes no sense, and undermines the plots in 4-6.

Examples:

- Midiclorians
- The Jedi are a "forgotten" order in a New Hope but Ep 3 ended 20 years earlier in a world with droids. Universal amnesia?
- Obi-Wan forgetting entirely about the droid he spent years with 20 years earlier
- Minor, but it bugged me: R2s rocket powers (wtf, like he forgot he had rockets?)

There are a lot more, this is a tiny subset. And yet, all of that forgotten, but Leia remembered her mother who died in childbirth.

It's painful to watch eps 1-3 then 4-6, but it's not nearly as bad to watch 4-6 then 7-8 (and now 9). I find the first three virtually unwatchable.

Agree on the time lapse being weird. Plus Chewbacca?! That fought in the Clone Wars and helped rescue Yoda?! Midichlorians are not a plot hole, imo, just a bad writing choice. Lei remembering? I forgot that, did she really? Did Obi Wan really forget about R2D2 and C3PO or do we pretend he just choose not to say something?

Yes, Chewbacca is another one. I mean, the collective amnesia is too much to take.

Leia remembered her mother as sad and beautiful, or something like that. I think it was in episode 6.

How do you know Obi Wan just didn’t say anything? He kept a ton from Luke.

There is a difference between just not saying anything and actively lying. Either there are huge plot holes or Obi Wan was a massive.liar.

He did lie — to a ton of people. He changed his name, told Luke his father died when that was only true “from a certain point of view.”

How can you guys forget how manipulative he is?

You know, I could buy this if Obi-Wan was the only character who forgot or didn't mention events that just happened 20 years previously. But they ALL did. And that gap in continuity between the prequels and the rest is so much worse than the continuity between 7-9 and the rest.

I think the first three movies are practically unwatchable, however, so I just pretend they don't exist anyhow.

You forget how few characters we meet in the original trilogy and how thorough the clone wars destruction was across the galaxy. We meet a small set of characters who were not necessarily exposed to all this historical knowledge. Not to mention the clone wars destroyed any semblance of interconnectedness throughout the galaxy. There WAS no government connecting the planets at that point, facilitating the dissemination of historical knowledge.


If you’re going to get upset at discontinuity between 1-3 and 4-6 you have to engage with 1-3 enough to understand why it set up the events of 4-6. You clearly don’t understand the prequels enough.

Oh for heaven's sake. I watched the prequels well over a hundred times (and the Clone Wars) because I had multiple kids that unfortunately loved them. I could probably quote them to you, even though I find them unwatchable (what you do for love). The continuity gap is really striking if you watch them all in order (which I have done multiple times, except of course for 9), and if you watch them over and over, as I did. Maybe they "set up the events," at least for a half-hearted, squinty, don't think too hard version of "set up the events." But if you suffer through them like I did, what you mostly see are the giant gaps.

Clone Wars was great, though.

Is your main problem that people aren't going around talking about the clone wars constantly in a new hope?

There are SO many reasons why it's perfectly reasonable why that wouldn't have happened. I think you needed to have paid attention better and maybe thought for a second about 1) who is actually in a new hope, and 2) how big the star wars galaxy actually is.

Umm in Force Awakens, Rey and Finn act like the Force and Luke Skywalker doesn’t exist and that Luke is some sort of myth, despite him being the hero of the Rebelloon only 25-30 years prior too.

So why do you have a problem with Kenobi barely mentioning the Clone Wars and there barely being Jedi in the 30 year gap between the prequels and it have a problem with the original trilogy and sequel trilogy gap??

Also, I rather LIKED that the prequel era felt completely different from the originals. The prequel showed more of a royal aspect to the galaxy while the originals was supposed to show the galaxy as beat up because of the Empire. The biggest issue with the sequels is that it doesn’t try to become its own era and instead is just a copy and paste of the original trilogy with the Rebels vs Empire version 2.

[Anonymous]

PP here. My post is directed at the PP. not who I quoted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's just a stupid criticism. Just because they didn't go around talking about these things doesn't mean they didn't know anything about them. You can easily explain why Luke, Leia, and C-3PO didn't know about them. Chewbacca can't even speak English. Obi Wan was manipulating Luke by not wanting him to know about any of it.

But I guess we're supposed to hear some random fighters talking about it? Or Lando, who was infamously dodgy with talking about his past?

Yeah people don’t understand that the prequels were all about showing how the Jedi sucked and got manipulated because they were manipulators and liars themselves. Heck, they stole Anakin because qui-got cheated to use the force. The Jedi also were supposed to be neutral but they ended up fighting in a war and siding with the Reublic when their code forbid them too. That’s why Obi-wan is an ass in the original trilogy. He’s basically using Luke to do his own doing. Which, morally, isn’t different from Vader wanting Luke to join him under the empire. Luke represents the guy who makes the morally right decisions in life, while the Jedi and Sith only want things done according to their worldview.

[Anonymous]

No one else noticed the similarities in plot between Rise of Skywalker and Frozen 2? Just me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one else noticed the similarities in plot between Rise of Skywalker and Frozen 2? Just me?

Badly written fan films that are simply cash grabs and don’t tell an actual story?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Read this about the whole "why did everyone forget about the Jedi" thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/53ue24/why_did_everyone_forget_about_the_jedi_and_sith/

You all seem to not have a sense of how enormous the Star Wars galaxy is, and how disjointed it became after the Clone Wars.

At its peak, there were estimated to be about 10,000 Jedi. That's not nearly enough for most people to have known who they were. It's possible many people in the galaxy wouldn't have necessarily known about the Clone Wars.

The separatist movement alone in the prequels comprised thousands of planets. This galaxy is on a scale you aren't fully appreciating.

You are somewhat underestimating what a Jedi was. He could move things simply by will alone, deflect blaster bolts, face hundreds of enemies single-handed and win, and all the other Force powers that show up randomly. Each was essentially a superman. If we had a superman, on this planet almost everyone would certainly know about it.

Given the extraordinarily low number of Force sensitives and the fairly diverse Jedi, it appears they had an extensive recruitment program across the galaxy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one else noticed the similarities in plot between Rise of Skywalker and Frozen 2? Just me?

I haven't seen Frozen 2, but there are tropes that are common to all movies. That's what was "exciting" about the 7th film. Rey was just some ordinary orphan with no special background who happened to be the strongest Jedi in existence. That subverted the "you have to be special" trope. Of course, the rags to riches trope is also a thing as well. So in subverting one trope, they encountered another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read this about the whole "why did everyone forget about the Jedi" thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/53ue24/why_did_everyone_forget_about_the_jedi_and_sith/

You all seem to not have a sense of how enormous the Star Wars galaxy is, and how disjointed it became after the Clone Wars.

At its peak, there were estimated to be about 10,000 Jedi. That's not nearly enough for most people to have known who they were. It's possible many people in the galaxy wouldn't have necessarily known about the Clone Wars.

The separatist movement alone in the prequels comprised thousands of planets. This galaxy is on a scale you aren't fully appreciating.

You are somewhat underestimating what a Jedi was. He could move things simply by will alone, deflect blaster bolts, face hundreds of enemies single-handed and win, and all the other Force powers that show up randomly. Each was essentially a superman. If we had a superman, on this planet almost everyone would certainly know about it.

Given the extraordinarily low number of Force sensitives and the fairly diverse Jedi, it appears they had an extensive recruitment program across the galaxy.

Umm, what's your evidence of that? There's no way to "recruit" a Jedi. You can identify Force sensitivity and then train a Jedi, but you can't recruit amongst the general population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read this about the whole "why did everyone forget about the Jedi" thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/53ue24/why_did_everyone_forget_about_the_jedi_and_sith/

You all seem to not have a sense of how enormous the Star Wars galaxy is, and how disjointed it became after the Clone Wars.

At its peak, there were estimated to be about 10,000 Jedi. That's not nearly enough for most people to have known who they were. It's possible many people in the galaxy wouldn't have necessarily known about the Clone Wars.

The separatist movement alone in the prequels comprised thousands of planets. This galaxy is on a scale you aren't fully appreciating.

You are somewhat underestimating what a Jedi was. He could move things simply by will alone, deflect blaster bolts, face hundreds of enemies single-handed and win, and all the other Force powers that show up randomly. Each was essentially a superman. If we had a superman, on this planet almost everyone would certainly know about it.

Given the extraordinarily low number of Force sensitives and the fairly diverse Jedi, it appears they had an extensive recruitment program across the galaxy.

Umm, what's your evidence of that? There's no way to "recruit" a Jedi. You can identify Force sensitivity and then train a Jedi, but you can't recruit amongst the general population.

The only one who could find a Force sensitive individual was a Jedi AFAIK. Since there are so few Jedi, there are either a huge number of Force sensitive individuals or Jedi are moving throughout the Galaxy constantly looking for recruits, or there are more than 10,000 Jedi. If there are a huge number of Force sensitive individuals, then the number of Jedi would be larger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read this about the whole "why did everyone forget about the Jedi" thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/53ue24/why_did_everyone_forget_about_the_jedi_and_sith/

You all seem to not have a sense of how enormous the Star Wars galaxy is, and how disjointed it became after the Clone Wars.

At its peak, there were estimated to be about 10,000 Jedi. That's not nearly enough for most people to have known who they were. It's possible many people in the galaxy wouldn't have necessarily known about the Clone Wars.

The separatist movement alone in the prequels comprised thousands of planets. This galaxy is on a scale you aren't fully appreciating.

You are somewhat underestimating what a Jedi was. He could move things simply by will alone, deflect blaster bolts, face hundreds of enemies single-handed and win, and all the other Force powers that show up randomly. Each was essentially a superman. If we had a superman, on this planet almost everyone would certainly know about it.

Given the extraordinarily low number of Force sensitives and the fairly diverse Jedi, it appears they had an extensive recruitment program across the galaxy.

Umm, what's your evidence of that? There's no way to "recruit" a Jedi. You can identify Force sensitivity and then train a Jedi, but you can't recruit amongst the general population.

The only one who could find a Force sensitive individual was a Jedi AFAIK. Since there are so few Jedi, there are either a huge number of Force sensitive individuals or Jedi are moving throughout the Galaxy constantly looking for recruits, or there are more than 10,000 Jedi. If there are a huge number of Force sensitive individuals, then the number of Jedi would be larger.

It’s been established in the books that there are about 10,000 trained Jedi. Considering how many planets there are, it’s not hard to imagine that lots of people would’ve never met one, and might have only a vague idea about the force. Having 10,000 Jedi does not mean they were constantly recruiting. It’s a small number.

There are undoubtedly more force sensitive people, but they didn’t necessarily know what their powers were if they were never trained.

[Anonymous]

I'm laughing at the desperate prequel fanboys and girls. Sorry, the prequels sucked. Most rational fans recognize that.

Thankfully George Lucas sold to Disney or we would have had those monstrosities duplicated in 7-9. Did you see the interview where Lucas was going to go full on Midiclorian in 7-9, and add another kind of magic force virus? What a mess that would have been.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm laughing at the desperate prequel fanboys and girls. Sorry, the prequels sucked. Most rational fans recognize that.

Thankfully George Lucas sold to Disney or we would have had those monstrosities duplicated in 7-9. Did you see the interview where Lucas was going to go full on Midiclorian in 7-9, and add another kind of magic force virus? What a mess that would have been.

I don’t understand the point of your comment. Where do you see “prequel fanboys and girls”? Like it or not, the prequels are canon. And what’s your issue with midiclorians? That’s a weird gripe to have.