S/O big law absentee parent explains

[Anonymous]

most efficient

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who the hell cares whether OP is female or male? Focus on the message, not the messenger.

And the message is that OP is bitter and unhappy.

No, that's a commentary on the messenger. You really aren't capable of even discerning the message, are you?

Well, OP thinks that her message is that her long hours, "social" activities, and gym time are all "necessary," but the message that really comes across is that she is miserable. She says the hour a day she spends at the gym is the only time that she's happy all day. That's awful, and what it says to me is that she's killing herself for material things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a big law attorney with a husband who makes less (and is able to stay in his enjoyable gig because I take care of finances). I saw the other thread about the big law dad who does poker/night out twice a week and the gym daily. Many of the responses slammed the husband, but allow me to share a different perspective.

Like the big law DH, I work every day. Yup. Every single day. 12-14 hours weekdays and 4-5 hours per weekend day. Why? Because I am trying to make equity partner. People simply do not realize that all partners are not created the same. Partners who lack a book of business have no more job security than associates, BUT we are much less marketable because our brand is inextricably linked to our firm once we accept an offer of partnership. So, my position is precarious and will remain so until I have some real clients of my own. I have no real connections. Sure, I have many friends and contacts, but I am a non-WASP, non-Jew whose parents were lower middle class Schmoes. I don't have that shared background that would lead the majority in my field to feel real loyalty to me. I distinguish myself through breadth and depth of knowledge and slavish devotion to my clients' needs.

This leads me to nights out. No one who goes from work to home is going to get far in big law unless they arrived with connections. What my husband sees as "fun" drinks, poker nights, parties, and other events are really me ingratiating myself with those who will one day send me business. From the outside looking in, many of these people are my "friends" and I have known them for years. I am having a grand time laughing and chatting with them, drink in hand, right? Wrong. I am pumping them for info and thinking of the bottomline at all times.

So, most of my week is spent working and drumming up work. Then I come home and it's more work. Help out with kids, help make household decisions, drive kids to day care, won't I coach a team. Bake some fucking cookies that some stay at home dingbats requested for a bake sale. I arrive home utterly spent and then I have to put on my mother/wife hat. I love my family, but it is beyond exhausting and DH often complains that I don't do enough.

And now we have arrived at the gym. My sanctuary. This is the only place in the world where I can drop the client-/family-pleasing grin, put on my headphones, and work out my frustrations in peace. I always hated the gym until I was married with kids and a job that was killing me and had nowhere else to turn. Most of my partners drink, drug, cheat, eat, smoke, and engage in other vices to cope. I am not going to let big law and the desire to give my kids a better life kill me. So, I go to the gym. Sometimes I cry on the treadmill. Sometimes I sprint as if I am trying to outrun my life. Sometimes I do squats until I can barely bend my legs. The hour at the gym is the only time I am truly happy.

So, as you can hopefully see, every aspect of my life from the long hours to the twice weekly "hang outs" to the gym has a purpose and is necessary. I bet the same is true for that DH. If the DW is reading this, my advice is to be supportive. He is killing himself for you and your kids. If you keep being greedy and asking for more, he will either drop from a stress-induced heart attack, divorce you, or quit his job. Any of those things means an end to your lifestyle and you can kiss the nice house, vacations, peace of mind you have in your low pay job, and kids' college funds goodbye.

Did it occur to you that those "stay at home dingbats" might actually be educated professionals who might throw you some business someday?

I'm sure it did not occur to OP because her head is so far crammed up her own a$$ that it's cutting off circulation.

[Anonymous]

Big law partner, and I do not doubt that OP is doing what she says she is doing, or that it may be necessary at her firm. I will add only a few things:

1. I did not work like OP as an associate (I still worked 2400 hours or so a year, but even that seems less than what OP is doing with all her other business-related activities outside of work) and I don't think most of those who make equity partners do so either.

2. Even in "big law," cultures are very different. Some firms expect face time, others (like my own) generally don't care where you work as long as your work is done and the client is happy (note this does not mean the hours aren't long, but it does mean I can work from home after having dinner with my family most nights).

3. If you are miserable, OP, it will NOT get better as a partner. Please don't set yourself up for long-term career disappointment or sudden burnout. If you honestly find the work rewarding, that is one thing, but the money you envision in the partnership will not bring happiness.

4. If it works for you and your family, then don't worry about what others think.

[Anonymous]

Op, sounds like your husband is unhappy. These types of careers just aren't condusive for a happy family. I have a close friend who is married to an Ob-gyn. He works a corporate job but she makes at least 4 times what he does and also works way more hours. Which leaves him handling their kid and everything around the house. He is miserable and all he talks about is how he regrets marrying her.

[Anonymous]

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

[Anonymous]

Op, you are lying to yourself when you say you are doing this for your family. This is for you, not them. At least own that part of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, you are lying to yourself when you say you are doing this for your family. This is for you, not them. At least own that part of it.

Exactly. I've been there too and made the same excuses. Then I grew up, re-prioritized, and gained enough self-respect to leave that insufferable environment. Maybe someday you'll get there too. In the meantime, you'll just keep pissing away your life thinking that those that "succumb" to spending time with their families are soft and not cut-out for management positions.

[Anonymous]

What a flaming asshole and a great reminder why I left that environment. I don't stay at home, but anyone who refers to them as "stay at home dingbats" is a flaming asshole.

[Anonymous]

Dear op, instead of wasting you time writing here, go play with your kids. They will appreciate it very much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: You sound motivated and hard working enough to hang up your own shingle and be pretty successful at it. Have you ever considered giving that a shot? Obviously you would need your spouse's support on making this kind of a decision.

Also ignore all the haters on this thread. Most of them claim to be feminists but when push comes to shove their feminism is purely situational.

THIS.

Or maybe some of the feminists balk at women being called dingbats and bitches while OP looks down on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a big law attorney with a husband who makes less (and is able to stay in his enjoyable gig because I take care of finances). I saw the other thread about the big law dad who does poker/night out twice a week and the gym daily. Many of the responses slammed the husband, but allow me to share a different perspective.

Like the big law DH, I work every day. Yup. Every single day. 12-14 hours weekdays and 4-5 hours per weekend day. Why? Because I am trying to make equity partner. People simply do not realize that all partners are not created the same. Partners who lack a book of business have no more job security than associates, BUT we are much less marketable because our brand is inextricably linked to our firm once we accept an offer of partnership. So, my position is precarious and will remain so until I have some real clients of my own. I have no real connections. Sure, I have many friends and contacts, but I am a non-WASP, non-Jew whose parents were lower middle class Schmoes. I don't have that shared background that would lead the majority in my field to feel real loyalty to me. I distinguish myself through breadth and depth of knowledge and slavish devotion to my clients' needs.

This leads me to nights out. No one who goes from work to home is going to get far in big law unless they arrived with connections. What my husband sees as "fun" drinks, poker nights, parties, and other events are really me ingratiating myself with those who will one day send me business. From the outside looking in, many of these people are my "friends" and I have known them for years. I am having a grand time laughing and chatting with them, drink in hand, right? Wrong. I am pumping them for info and thinking of the bottomline at all times.

So, most of my week is spent working and drumming up work. Then I come home and it's more work. Help out with kids, help make household decisions, drive kids to day care, won't I coach a team. Bake some fucking cookies that some stay at home dingbats requested for a bake sale. I arrive home utterly spent and then I have to put on my mother/wife hat. I love my family, but it is beyond exhausting and DH often complains that I don't do enough.

And now we have arrived at the gym. My sanctuary. This is the only place in the world where I can drop the client-/family-pleasing grin, put on my headphones, and work out my frustrations in peace. I always hated the gym until I was married with kids and a job that was killing me and had nowhere else to turn. Most of my partners drink, drug, cheat, eat, smoke, and engage in other vices to cope. I am not going to let big law and the desire to give my kids a better life kill me. So, I go to the gym. Sometimes I cry on the treadmill. Sometimes I sprint as if I am trying to outrun my life. Sometimes I do squats until I can barely bend my legs. The hour at the gym is the only time I am truly happy.

So, as you can hopefully see, every aspect of my life from the long hours to the twice weekly "hang outs" to the gym has a purpose and is necessary. I bet the same is true for that DH. If the DW is reading this, my advice is to be supportive. He is killing himself for you and your kids. If you keep being greedy and asking for more, he will either drop from a stress-induced heart attack, divorce you, or quit his job. Any of those things means an end to your lifestyle and you can kiss the nice house, vacations, peace of mind you have in your low pay job, and kids' college funds goodbye.

Did it occur to you that those "stay at home dingbats" might actually be educated professionals who might throw you some business someday?

OP here - Why else do you think I'm baking cookies for the bitches? Lol. Our kids don't know the difference between homemade and store-bought. I tolerate these women's schemes and fundraisers for networking with them and their DHs.

OP ... I guarantee you that your toxic and cynical attitude --- the nastiness -- is not lost on those with whom you deal, including those who will decide your future.

You see quite misguided and quite angry ... a real case of missing the forest for the trees.

I kind of feel sorry for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Big law partner, and I do not doubt that OP is doing what she says she is doing, or that it may be necessary at her firm. I will add only a few things:

1. I did not work like OP as an associate (I still worked 2400 hours or so a year, but even that seems less than what OP is doing with all her other business-related activities outside of work) and I don't think most of those who make equity partners do so either.

2. Even in "big law," cultures are very different. Some firms expect face time, others (like my own) generally don't care where you work as long as your work is done and the client is happy (note this does not mean the hours aren't long, but it does mean I can work from home after having dinner with my family most nights).

3. If you are miserable, OP, it will NOT get better as a partner. Please don't set yourself up for long-term career disappointment or sudden burnout. If you honestly find the work rewarding, that is one thing, but the money you envision in the partnership will not bring happiness.

4. If it works for you and your family, then don't worry about what others think.

This is exactly right, especially Item 3. I cannot emphasize that strongly enough.

I wonder if OP is an inefficient worker with all that time spent, all the time. Not sure what the source of the anger is but I have to agree w/ the reaction that OP comes off as a flaming a-hole.

Item 3 is huge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fire extinguishers! You're gonna get so flamed.

OP here - Oh, I know. And there'll be the chorus of "this isn't healthy," "you're just greedy," and "I could never do that." This thread is for that other thread's DW and others in her position. Success in big law takes over everything and unless you want to ramp up from your mommy/daddy-track job, you need to support the person who is killing him/herself to make your life run.

I'm not flaming you, but are you considering leaving? Because if you're so strung out from the job that you're crying on the treadmill, you're not happy. And if you're not happy, it's going to bleed into your family life. You're not an indentured servant. You're not forced to stay in this job. Your family will be okay if you don't make equity partner. I think it's really easy in BigLaw to buy into that life because you're in it all day every day. If you step back and look at it more objectively, is it really what you want?

[Anonymous]

You have my sympathy, OP. That doesn't sound like much of a fun life at all -- I assume you regret going into law?