S/O big law absentee parent explains

[Anonymous]

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Why do you have to be so nasty? What are you so angry about if you're happy with the choices you've made? Why isn't DH making the cookies since he has more free time? Why not just make a huge donation so they can be grateful for your generosity?

Go read the parenting forum to learn what the PTA harpies think of moms who send checks. The Stepfords think they know all about a mother if she doesn't help bake, volunteer, whatever. You're also assuming DH, who is already whining, is willing to make the cookies.

I'm one of the PTA moms. I'd rather all the parents write checks so I didn't have to fundraise for our kids. It would make my life easier.

That's good for you, but you are in the minority. PTA moms will take the checks and then gossip viciously about what a bad mom the check-writer is and refuse to organize play dates with her kids. Trying to dictate what other parents do with their free time is the only power they have.

Oh please. Here is something that will blow your mind. I was a PTA mom and a biglaw partner.

Half our pta are lawyers working full time. We don't have time to gossip about who baked the best brownies. i buy them from the grocery store anyway.

I'm a PTA mom and a govt lawyer, so very different from OP, but honestly, it doesn't matter whether you bake the brownies or not. The WOHM PTA moms like me are going to be cool with you regardless. The more "stepford" ones (a subset of SAHMs, some of whom are very cool) aren't going to set up playdates with your kid regardless. They're just going to stick to their friends they play tennis with. Who cares? Don't take offense and just forget about it. But I certainly wouldn't bake the damn brownies in an attempt to woo their friendship.

[Anonymous]

A mom here... Damn, I'm glad I'm in IT and not biglaw. I may make less, but we're all very happy and have balanced lives. If my kids preferred me to make more money so they can have more things rather than having me home more with them, I think I have failed as a parent. Luckily, that's not the case.

[Anonymous]

Two things: (1) how is THIS giving your kids a better life? and (2) I'm a full time WAHM, but you better believe my kids know the difference between homemade and store bought cookies.

[Anonymous]

OP, you should be alarmed - truly alarmed - that you refer to yourself as an absentee parent. Good lord, really? That's acceptable to you? There are jobs you can have that don't require you to toss your kids to the side. What about your job is worth it to you to sell your family to the firm?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fire extinguishers! You're gonna get so flamed.

OP here - Oh, I know. And there'll be the chorus of "this isn't healthy," "you're just greedy," and "I could never do that." This thread is for that other thread's DW and others in her position. Success in big law takes over everything and unless you want to ramp up from your mommy/daddy-track job, you need to support the person who is killing him/herself to make your life run.

I'm not flaming you, but are you considering leaving? Because if you're so strung out from the job that you're crying on the treadmill, you're not happy. And if you're not happy, it's going to bleed into your family life. You're not an indentured servant. You're not forced to stay in this job. Your family will be okay if you don't make equity partner. I think it's really easy in BigLaw to buy into that life because you're in it all day every day. If you step back and look at it more objectively, is it really what you want?

This is my thought. If my husband were working those kind of hours and was that kind of miserable, I wouldn't be supporting him. At all. I would be telling him that he needed to find a different job. I would be running the numbers to show him that we don't need that kind of money. I would make it clear to him, if he thought he was doing it for me and the kids, that it wasn't what we wanted, and if he continued to do it, it would be because he wanted to, not because we made him. You have choices.

Also, making partner isn't really going to make your life easier. I heard a lawyer describe it as a pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get it, OP. I'm not in big law. Far from it. I am an up-until-a-minute-ago single mom working in the non-profit sector. But I get it.

The house, the food in the fridge, the college fund (meager as it is), the music lessons, it's not from magic and fairy dust. It's from hard-as-hell work. And seriously, props for actually making the cookies. I threw a pizza from Sbarro's on the swim team potluck table.

Yeah holy shit. Op, my only advice is next time just buy some cookies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, OP. I'm not in big law. Far from it. I am an up-until-a-minute-ago single mom working in the non-profit sector. But I get it.

The house, the food in the fridge, the college fund (meager as it is), the music lessons, it's not from magic and fairy dust. It's from hard-as-hell work. And seriously, props for actually making the cookies. I threw a pizza from Sbarro's on the swim team potluck table.

Yeah holy shit. Op, my only advice is next time just buy some cookies.

Plenty of people do it while being active parents and not being mean to everyone in their path. And without making themselves miserable.

[Anonymous]

Proof positive that big law is a miserable way to make a living. Plenty of other options offer comparable $$$ and more autonomy, along with the ancillary benefit of allowing one to sleep at night.

OP, you've been had. Get out before it lays waste to whatever remains of your humanity.

Signed,

Big Law Refugee

[Anonymous]

So glad I got out of law. The longer you stay in it the more warped your perspective becomes. OP is a prime example. She's been duped into thinking she must do this. More's the pity.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:
Okay you are coming at the from the wrong place. What is the 12-14 hours a day of work that you are doing? You are working on things for the clients of partners right? What you need to do is go and get your own clients. How do you do that? Well being Jewish or a WASP isn't necessarily going to help so everyone is to a degree in the same boat. Are you going to ABA conferences? Joining committees through local bar chapters? Giving presentations at conferences? That is how you drum up business is getting to know other lawyers in your field. What area of law are you in? Being a WASP or Jewish kid of a big time defense lawyer isn't really going to help your estate planning practice is it? It is the non-billable hour work that gets you the clients. How do I know? I'm the child of a firm's rainmaker. My mom gets the clients and then passes the work off to the associates. The associates work so much they never have time to get their own clients. The people who make partner figure that out and put in the effort. Clients don't just fall into your lap like drunk guys buying you drinks at bars.

+1. Those biglaw partners in the other thread who come home at 6:30 and then edit associates' briefs from the home office are not the rain makers. You get business by what the PP above has noted. You don't get business by going to parties--especially not for the kind of client business that biglaw rewards. You get referrals by being known in the national and international field. Present at conferences, be on a panel for your particular ABA section, publish articles, adjunct at a law school. Even if you make friends at these social events, they aren't going to recommend you to a corporate client unless you do these things. Remember, being a hard working associate is not what makes you partner. What makes you partner is bringing in new books of business. Very different than working your butt off for an existing client. I wish law schools would emphasize that what makes a great associate is very different than what makes an equity partner.

I posted in the other thread about my biglaw DH who is home for dinner nightly. He is actually a rainmaker, too, who doesn't go to happy hours or poker nights at all. He doesn't have to do all that much now in terms of business development, but when he was first looking to develop his own book of business, he didn't try to leverage his friendships for business. Instead, he started writing articles for law journals. As those got published, trade associations in areas where he worked began to ask him to speak at their conferences. He really never turned down those opportunities. At first, he picked up small matters for large clients, and as he won those, his business started snowballing.

There is no late night schmoozing that actually shows anyone the quality of your work. It is a myth that it is necessary or even desirable, and you are wasting your time if you think that is how you will become a rainmaker. Believe it or not, clients want to hire good lawyers - not good networkers.

[Anonymous]

I do not think that OP is a flaming a**hole---she was anonymously venting and she is very unhappy.

OP--the PP who emphasized being a recognized expert in your field over "social" networking events was dead-on. I'm now a GC and I do not hire lawyers because I randomly schmoozed with them at an event. The advice to become a leader within one industry-focused group is very good.
And nothing beats referrals. When I was in private practice, the best way to get additional business was from satisfied clients.

And do not be afraid to write off time (albeit in an efficient way). Take time to get to know your clients and let them know that you're not intending to bill them for it. The rate structure of BigLaw is now so high that businesspeople have a ticking meter in their heads everytime they speak to a BigLaw attorney. This is detrimental to everyone because the client doesn't feel like they can afford to fully educate their attorney regarding their business. So ask the client questions so they know you are actually interested in their goals, but assure them that you aren't looking to soak them.

I have noticed that senior associates, junior partners have lost the art of bill management in pursuit of the billables goal. Really look at the bills before you send them out and make sure that the bill is reasonable in light of the task requested and the importance of it to the client's business.

And the part about living close to work is also key.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even read the other thread, OP. The only thing I would say is that this doesn't seem necessary at all. There are plenty of other career paths for lawyers. Also, any parent killing themselves at a job is not doing their kids any favors. Happy parent, happy child. I wish you all the best.

+1

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As a big law equity partner and DW, all I can say is that this is either fake or the saddest case I've ever seen.

Np. So you made equity partner working 9-5 only?

Different poster, but you don't do what OP is doing. You need to know how to play the game. She doesn't.

Well exactly, bc she wasn't born and raised in that old boy network that these service industries are built on. She is going at it from all avenues for better or worse to break in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you should be alarmed - truly alarmed - that you refer to yourself as an absentee parent. Good lord, really? That's acceptable to you? There are jobs you can have that don't require you to toss your kids to the side. What about your job is worth it to you to sell your family to the firm?

It's obvious you didn't grow up lower middle class and have no cozy safety net of a parents and connections like most DCUM enter life with. It sucks and can drive people a little crazy to make sure their kids don't have to ever worry about how to pay the rent even if their career stumbles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a big law attorney with a husband who makes less (and is able to stay in his enjoyable gig because I take care of finances). I saw the other thread about the big law dad who does poker/night out twice a week and the gym daily. Many of the responses slammed the husband, but allow me to share a different perspective.

Like the big law DH, I work every day. Yup. Every single day. 12-14 hours weekdays and 4-5 hours per weekend day. Why? Because I am trying to make equity partner. People simply do not realize that all partners are not created the same. Partners who lack a book of business have no more job security than associates, BUT we are much less marketable because our brand is inextricably linked to our firm once we accept an offer of partnership. So, my position is precarious and will remain so until I have some real clients of my own. I have no real connections. Sure, I have many friends and contacts, but I am a non-WASP, non-Jew whose parents were lower middle class Schmoes. I don't have that shared background that would lead the majority in my field to feel real loyalty to me. I distinguish myself through breadth and depth of knowledge and slavish devotion to my clients' needs.

This leads me to nights out. No one who goes from work to home is going to get far in big law unless they arrived with connections. What my husband sees as "fun" drinks, poker nights, parties, and other events are really me ingratiating myself with those who will one day send me business. From the outside looking in, many of these people are my "friends" and I have known them for years. I am having a grand time laughing and chatting with them, drink in hand, right? Wrong. I am pumping them for info and thinking of the bottomline at all times.

So, most of my week is spent working and drumming up work. Then I come home and it's more work. Help out with kids, help make household decisions, drive kids to day care, won't I coach a team. Bake some fucking cookies that some stay at home dingbats requested for a bake sale. I arrive home utterly spent and then I have to put on my mother/wife hat. I love my family, but it is beyond exhausting and DH often complains that I don't do enough.

And now we have arrived at the gym. My sanctuary. This is the only place in the world where I can drop the client-/family-pleasing grin, put on my headphones, and work out my frustrations in peace. I always hated the gym until I was married with kids and a job that was killing me and had nowhere else to turn. Most of my partners drink, drug, cheat, eat, smoke, and engage in other vices to cope. I am not going to let big law and the desire to give my kids a better life kill me. So, I go to the gym. Sometimes I cry on the treadmill. Sometimes I sprint as if I am trying to outrun my life. Sometimes I do squats until I can barely bend my legs. The hour at the gym is the only time I am truly happy.

So, as you can hopefully see, every aspect of my life from the long hours to the twice weekly "hang outs" to the gym has a purpose and is necessary. I bet the same is true for that DH. If the DW is reading this, my advice is to be supportive. He is killing himself for you and your kids. If you keep being greedy and asking for more, he will either drop from a stress-induced heart attack, divorce you, or quit his job. Any of those things means an end to your lifestyle and you can kiss the nice house, vacations, peace of mind you have in your low pay job, and kids' college funds goodbye.

This is why I couldn't make it in BigLaw. I just can't push this hard.

Good luck, OP. I am sorry that law sucks so much. I wish it didn't.