S/O big law absentee parent explains

[Anonymous]

This mentality is why I left BigLaw as a senior associate to go to a government job. It's just NOT WORTH IT to stay on that kind of a treadmill long term. And FYI OP, the other thread's OP makes $170K. If her husband quit and took a GS-15 job, their combined HHI would be over $300K. It is quite possible to have a nice house, nice vacations, and pay for college on 300K. I know because DH and I are on track to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fire extinguishers! You're gonna get so flamed.

OP here - Oh, I know. And there'll be the chorus of "this isn't healthy," "you're just greedy," and "I could never do that." This thread is for that other thread's DW and others in her position. Success in big law takes over everything and unless you want to ramp up from your mommy/daddy-track job, you need to support the person who is killing him/herself to make your life run.

No. It's not full of this isn't healthy, you're greedy, or I could never do that.

It's going to be full of people wondering why you have to be so inconsiderate and unpleasant, and trying to convince yourself and your family that this is the only way. You chose this path, putting your job above all else. You could choose differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, OP. I'm not in big law. Far from it. I am an up-until-a-minute-ago single mom working in the non-profit sector. But I get it.

The house, the food in the fridge, the college fund (meager as it is), the music lessons, it's not from magic and fairy dust. It's from hard-as-hell work. And seriously, props for actually making the cookies. I threw a pizza from Sbarro's on the swim team potluck table.

Me again. Wanted to add that, like it or not, IMO being female makes schmoozing even harder and even more necessary, because it's harder.

OP here - This. You get it. Networking as a woman is really tough when what you want is not a job, but rather for the person to put his or his company's fate in your hands. I have to deal with the jerks who humor me for a while because they want to sleep with me and then there are the time-wasters who hear my pitch, make encouraging sounds, and then choose their buddy's son or their classmate from Exeter with apologies because they don't want to burn that bridge. I would travel more and do more conferences as PP suggested, but then DH would really complain.

[Anonymous]

I can understand why you have problems networking. You are kind of terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a big law attorney with a husband who makes less (and is able to stay in his enjoyable gig because I take care of finances). I saw the other thread about the big law dad who does poker/night out twice a week and the gym daily. Many of the responses slammed the husband, but allow me to share a different perspective.

Like the big law DH, I work every day. Yup. Every single day. 12-14 hours weekdays and 4-5 hours per weekend day. Why? Because I am trying to make equity partner. People simply do not realize that all partners are not created the same. Partners who lack a book of business have no more job security than associates, BUT we are much less marketable because our brand is inextricably linked to our firm once we accept an offer of partnership. So, my position is precarious and will remain so until I have some real clients of my own. I have no real connections. Sure, I have many friends and contacts, but I am a non-WASP, non-Jew whose parents were lower middle class Schmoes. I don't have that shared background that would lead the majority in my field to feel real loyalty to me. I distinguish myself through breadth and depth of knowledge and slavish devotion to my clients' needs.

This leads me to nights out. No one who goes from work to home is going to get far in big law unless they arrived with connections. What my husband sees as "fun" drinks, poker nights, parties, and other events are really me ingratiating myself with those who will one day send me business. From the outside looking in, many of these people are my "friends" and I have known them for years. I am having a grand time laughing and chatting with them, drink in hand, right? Wrong. I am pumping them for info and thinking of the bottomline at all times.

So, most of my week is spent working and drumming up work. Then I come home and it's more work. Help out with kids, help make household decisions, drive kids to day care, won't I coach a team. Bake some fucking cookies that some stay at home dingbats requested for a bake sale. I arrive home utterly spent and then I have to put on my mother/wife hat. I love my family, but it is beyond exhausting and DH often complains that I don't do enough.

And now we have arrived at the gym. My sanctuary. This is the only place in the world where I can drop the client-/family-pleasing grin, put on my headphones, and work out my frustrations in peace. I always hated the gym until I was married with kids and a job that was killing me and had nowhere else to turn. Most of my partners drink, drug, cheat, eat, smoke, and engage in other vices to cope. I am not going to let big law and the desire to give my kids a better life kill me. So, I go to the gym. Sometimes I cry on the treadmill. Sometimes I sprint as if I am trying to outrun my life. Sometimes I do squats until I can barely bend my legs. The hour at the gym is the only time I am truly happy.

So, as you can hopefully see, every aspect of my life from the long hours to the twice weekly "hang outs" to the gym has a purpose and is necessary. I bet the same is true for that DH. If the DW is reading this, my advice is to be supportive. He is killing himself for you and your kids. If you keep being greedy and asking for more, he will either drop from a stress-induced heart attack, divorce you, or quit his job. Any of those things means an end to your lifestyle and you can kiss the nice house, vacations, peace of mind you have in your low pay job, and kids' college funds goodbye.

Did it occur to you that those "stay at home dingbats" might actually be educated professionals who might throw you some business someday?

OP here - Why else do you think I'm baking cookies for the bitches? Lol. Our kids don't know the difference between homemade and store-bought. I tolerate these women's schemes and fundraisers for networking with them and their DHs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can understand why you have problems networking. You are kind of terrible.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can understand why you have problems networking. You are kind of terrible.

OP here - Please read. Where did I say I was having trouble networking? You think it's about going to one event and voilà, business? It's an ongoing relationship-building process, hence why I do it on a weekly basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, OP. I'm not in big law. Far from it. I am an up-until-a-minute-ago single mom working in the non-profit sector. But I get it.

The house, the food in the fridge, the college fund (meager as it is), the music lessons, it's not from magic and fairy dust. It's from hard-as-hell work. And seriously, props for actually making the cookies. I threw a pizza from Sbarro's on the swim team potluck table.

Me again. Wanted to add that, like it or not, IMO being female makes schmoozing even harder and even more necessary, because it's harder.

OP here - This. You get it. Networking as a woman is really tough when what you want is not a job, but rather for the person to put his or his company's fate in your hands. I have to deal with the jerks who humor me for a while because they want to sleep with me and then there are the time-wasters who hear my pitch, make encouraging sounds, and then choose their buddy's son or their classmate from Exeter with apologies because they don't want to burn that bridge. I would travel more and do more conferences as PP suggested, but then DH would really complain.

Yep. I'm only able to travel and do mote conferences myself very recently because I re-partnered, and my child is old enough to stay home by himself for a bit.

[Anonymous]

This kind of jerk is why I left biglaw.

You have a choice, OP. You don't have to work there to have a good lifestyle. You choose to do so and to be neglectful of your family and community. You are not a martyr. You are simply greedy or insecure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fire extinguishers! You're gonna get so flamed.

OP here - Oh, I know. And there'll be the chorus of "this isn't healthy," "you're just greedy," and "I could never do that." This thread is for that other thread's DW and others in her position. Success in big law takes over everything and unless you want to ramp up from your mommy/daddy-track job, you need to support the person who is killing him/herself to make your life run.

No. It's not full of this isn't healthy, you're greedy, or I could never do that.

It's going to be full of people wondering why you have to be so inconsiderate and unpleasant, and trying to convince yourself and your family that this is the only way. You chose this path, putting your job above all else. You could choose differently.

OP here - I'm basically done with this thread, but one more thing: Don't be stupid. There is a difference between how the blunt tone I employ on a time-wasting forum and how I carry myself in real life. People are complex. That sweet, charming person might have a much edgier inner voice than you realize and your best friends might not like you as much as you think. Is this news to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can understand why you have problems networking. You are kind of terrible.

OP here - Please read. Where did I say I was having trouble networking? You think it's about going to one event and voilà, business? It's an ongoing relationship-building process, hence why I do it on a weekly basis.

Well, they are picking their Exeter buddies over you. Not a good sign. Have you ever considered this is not the right field for you? It shouldn't be this hard and your hour at the gun shouldn't be the best part of your life. That is just sad and pathetic.

[Anonymous]

OP isn't actually in big law. she's a troll

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Okay you are coming at the from the wrong place. What is the 12-14 hours a day of work that you are doing? You are working on things for the clients of partners right? What you need to do is go and get your own clients. How do you do that? Well being Jewish or a WASP isn't necessarily going to help so everyone is to a degree in the same boat. Are you going to ABA conferences? Joining committees through local bar chapters? Giving presentations at conferences? That is how you drum up business is getting to know other lawyers in your field. What area of law are you in? Being a WASP or Jewish kid of a big time defense lawyer isn't really going to help your estate planning practice is it? It is the non-billable hour work that gets you the clients. How do I know? I'm the child of a firm's rainmaker. My mom gets the clients and then passes the work off to the associates. The associates work so much they never have time to get their own clients. The people who make partner figure that out and put in the effort. Clients don't just fall into your lap like drunk guys buying you drinks at bars.

+1. Those biglaw partners in the other thread who come home at 6:30 and then edit associates' briefs from the home office are not the rain makers. You get business by what the PP above has noted. You don't get business by going to parties--especially not for the kind of client business that biglaw rewards. You get referrals by being known in the national and international field. Present at conferences, be on a panel for your particular ABA section, publish articles, adjunct at a law school. Even if you make friends at these social events, they aren't going to recommend you to a corporate client unless you do these things. Remember, being a hard working associate is not what makes you partner. What makes you partner is bringing in new books of business. Very different than working your butt off for an existing client. I wish law schools would emphasize that what makes a great associate is very different than what makes an equity partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a big law attorney with a husband who makes less (and is able to stay in his enjoyable gig because I take care of finances). I saw the other thread about the big law dad who does poker/night out twice a week and the gym daily. Many of the responses slammed the husband, but allow me to share a different perspective.

Like the big law DH, I work every day. Yup. Every single day. 12-14 hours weekdays and 4-5 hours per weekend day. Why? Because I am trying to make equity partner. People simply do not realize that all partners are not created the same. Partners who lack a book of business have no more job security than associates, BUT we are much less marketable because our brand is inextricably linked to our firm once we accept an offer of partnership. So, my position is precarious and will remain so until I have some real clients of my own. I have no real connections. Sure, I have many friends and contacts, but I am a non-WASP, non-Jew whose parents were lower middle class Schmoes. I don't have that shared background that would lead the majority in my field to feel real loyalty to me. I distinguish myself through breadth and depth of knowledge and slavish devotion to my clients' needs.

This leads me to nights out. No one who goes from work to home is going to get far in big law unless they arrived with connections. What my husband sees as "fun" drinks, poker nights, parties, and other events are really me ingratiating myself with those who will one day send me business. From the outside looking in, many of these people are my "friends" and I have known them for years. I am having a grand time laughing and chatting with them, drink in hand, right? Wrong. I am pumping them for info and thinking of the bottomline at all times.

So, most of my week is spent working and drumming up work. Then I come home and it's more work. Help out with kids, help make household decisions, drive kids to day care, won't I coach a team. Bake some fucking cookies that some stay at home dingbats requested for a bake sale. I arrive home utterly spent and then I have to put on my mother/wife hat. I love my family, but it is beyond exhausting and DH often complains that I don't do enough.

And now we have arrived at the gym. My sanctuary. This is the only place in the world where I can drop the client-/family-pleasing grin, put on my headphones, and work out my frustrations in peace. I always hated the gym until I was married with kids and a job that was killing me and had nowhere else to turn. Most of my partners drink, drug, cheat, eat, smoke, and engage in other vices to cope. I am not going to let big law and the desire to give my kids a better life kill me. So, I go to the gym. Sometimes I cry on the treadmill. Sometimes I sprint as if I am trying to outrun my life. Sometimes I do squats until I can barely bend my legs. The hour at the gym is the only time I am truly happy.

So, as you can hopefully see, every aspect of my life from the long hours to the twice weekly "hang outs" to the gym has a purpose and is necessary. I bet the same is true for that DH. If the DW is reading this, my advice is to be supportive. He is killing himself for you and your kids. If you keep being greedy and asking for more, he will either drop from a stress-induced heart attack, divorce you, or quit his job. Any of those things means an end to your lifestyle and you can kiss the nice house, vacations, peace of mind you have in your low pay job, and kids' college funds goodbye.

Did it occur to you that those "stay at home dingbats" might actually be educated professionals who might throw you some business someday?

OP here - Why else do you think I'm baking cookies for the bitches? Lol. Our kids don't know the difference between homemade and store-bought. I tolerate these women's schemes and fundraisers for networking with them and their DHs.

Why do you have to be so nasty? What are you so angry about if you're happy with the choices you've made? Why isn't DH making the cookies since he has more free time? Why not just make a huge donation so they can be grateful for your generosity?

[Anonymous]

I used to be in big law and now in house, and all I can say is thank you for reminding me why I left. Yes, it's a choice, and no, we don't feel bad for you. I never expected anyone to feel bad for me when I was in that hell hole. Keep telling yourself it's for a grand cause, some greater good, if that makes you feel better.