American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're right, I believe that through Islamic teachings, God has set out a way of life that is "best" for us. But I also think there are other good paths.

Unfortunately, this is not what Islam teaches. There are no other good paths - Islam is the one and only path. I know this position is tough to defend if you feel that there are other good people who hold differing beliefs. Religion has had to yield from their strict teachings time and time again throughout history. I hope people think about these things carefully, since they believe it affects the quality of their everlasting life that is sure to come after this one.

Anonymous wrote: I think you are misreading my post so that you have an opportunity articulate your frustration with religious people who seem hypocritical to you. I don't believe Jesus is the son of God. However, I don't think Christians are "bad" or that they will be denied Heaven necessarily by that belief.

It doesn't just seem hypocritical, it is hypocritical. The Quran is clear that only those Christians and Jews who convert to Islam after being exposed will be received into heaven. So all those Christians you see that you think are going to get into heaven, they are not according to your religion.

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think anything I've said is lazy-brained. I think the questions and complexities so many religious people face (the things you call hypocritical or deliberately misinterpret so you can get on your soapbox) are a product of religious people struggling with conflict.

It's lazy brained because there is an obvious difference between what you believe and what your religion teaches in no uncertain terms. Instead of asking yourself why this difference exists, you ignore it and happily parrot the latest "we-love-everyone" message. This is lazy brained because it avoids the mental exercise of seeking the truth, rather than just settle on something that feels numb and comfortable.

What you have just published about Islam is blatantly false. How about you leave the interpretation of Islam / Quran up to Muslims? Islam never ever ever says there is only one path to God or Heaven. Even those Christians who mistakenly believe (per Quran) Jesus is God will be admitted into Heaven if they did good deeds. Yes, Muslims believe Christians distorted the message of God along the way, but so what, don't Christians think only Christians will go to Heaven?

[Anonymous]

Here is what the Quran says about Christians and Jews below. Clearly the Quran does NOT say Islam is the only way to God or Heaven as PP asserted:


"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).

"O you who believe! Be helpers of God -- as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, 'Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?' Said the disciples, 'We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed" (61:14).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't see it as hypocritical to support equal rights for others, even if they go against my personal beliefs/teachings, etc.

This isn't a perfect example, but here's one to better explain my meaning: I'd say that being a vegetarian is a better choice for moral, ethical, spiritual, and health reasons. But I don't believe it is wrong to eat meat, and I don't think it would be fair for others to restrict my diet because of their own beliefs.

Yes, but your type of vegetarian does not share the same mindset as religious fundamentalists - I don't use fundamentalist as a pejorative since these are actually the only religious types who are truly faithful to their religion. Both Christianity and Islam at their basic preaches the fact that their truth is the only truth, and that all other beliefs are false. So when a Muslim believes homosexuality is an abomination, they don't believe this only applies to Muslims, but that it applies to all people. So your attitude towards being a vegetarian is very very different from the core teachings of Christianity and Islam. In this regard, Vegans who practice their diet due to concerns for animal welfare is much more similar as they believe it is wrong for *anyone* to eat meat. If it was up to them, we'd all be vegans.

This is actually strong evidence that many of the founding fathers of this country were in fact secular in their true nature. It is very difficult to square one's true belief in Christianity with the thought that it is okay for others to believe what they want to believe. These are simply incompatible thoughts that people either avoid or brush aside when they bubble to the surface.

FWIW, Christianity very clearly teaches that we shouldn't judge each other because only God can judge. Obviously many Christians missed that part of the gospels, but it's there in plain words. So in fact, plenty of Christians *can* square their own beliefs with the thought that others can believe what they want.

Well, that's a play on words. Sure only God can judge, but he has already judged and his decision on what is good/bad is written in the Bible, which Christians have faith in. All people are sinners in this fallen world, God has judged this to be true and Christians believe in this judgement. Don't accept Jesus as your savior? You are not going to be redeemed and are going to hell. No two ways about it. That decision has been made for you as a believer and practitioner. You can say "I am not judging" all you want, but living as a good Christian obligates you to believe that non Christians, people who don't accept Jesus as their savior, are sinners that will be going to hell. What's ironic to Atheists is that Christianity as an artificial human creation, is in fact humans judging other humans, but then makes the claim that they are not.

If you claim to be a Christian, yet you believe that other paths to god are just as valid, then you have the wrong interpretation of the Bible that you claim to have faith in. Either that or you are not truly a Christian.

Jesus isn't recorded as saying a single word about homosexuality. So, you're wrong when you say the Christian God has already judged against homosexuals.

Ans, to return to the original point, it's true that many (most?) Christians believe they can take an open, non-judgmental view on the issue of homosexuality. (Paul talked about homosexuality, but obviously, Paul was just a man and doesn't have anything near Jesus' status. Some Bible literalists take Paul's every word as being the same as God's word, but most of the rest of us feel free to ignore and to regard his letters as more pastoral in nature.)

Also, please stop with the "Christians think all non-Christians are going to hell." That's been debunked so many times here, by so many different Christians here, that your willful refusal to listen to the Christians debunking you just makes you look bigoted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is what the Quran says about Christians and Jews below. Clearly the Quran does NOT say Islam is the only way to God or Heaven as PP asserted:


"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).

"O you who believe! Be helpers of God -- as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, 'Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?' Said the disciples, 'We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed" (61:14).

There are vast differences in treatment of Christians and Jews, though. Christians and Jews have to submit to their Muslim overlords and pay the appropriate taxes. Converting from Islam to Christianity or Judaism is punishable by death. There are restrictions on interfaith marriages with Christians and Jews. And so on.

As for polytheists, for example Hindus, don't even go there....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is what the Quran says about Christians and Jews below. Clearly the Quran does NOT say Islam is the only way to God or Heaven as PP asserted:


"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).

"O you who believe! Be helpers of God -- as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, 'Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?' Said the disciples, 'We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed" (61:14).

The Quran also says this:

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5:51)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what the Quran says about Christians and Jews below. Clearly the Quran does NOT say Islam is the only way to God or Heaven as PP asserted:


"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).

"O you who believe! Be helpers of God -- as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, 'Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?' Said the disciples, 'We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed" (61:14).

There are vast differences in treatment of Christians and Jews, though. Christians and Jews have to submit to their Muslim overlords and pay the appropriate taxes. Converting from Islam to Christianity or Judaism is punishable by death. There are restrictions on interfaith marriages with Christians and Jews. And so on.

As for polytheists, for example Hindus, don't even go there....

First you said In Islam there is no path to God or Heaven except Islam. Now you're asking about how they are treated. Different points. You're talking now about jizya tax and its not a punishment. Its a tax for protection from the state because nonmuslims are exempt from military duty. This is wholly different from your initial question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what the Quran says about Christians and Jews below. Clearly the Quran does NOT say Islam is the only way to God or Heaven as PP asserted:


"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).

"O you who believe! Be helpers of God -- as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, 'Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?' Said the disciples, 'We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed" (61:14).

The Quran also says this:

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5:51)

Yes but this verse STILL doesn't say all Christians and Jews are going to hell unless they convert.

Allah speaks from two perspectives throughout the Quran- current perspective and past or overall perspective. At the time the Christians and Jews WERE trying to kill Islam off so a warning was issued here. But overall Allah speaks well of Christians and Jews.

Again, this doesn't say that Islam dooms all Christians or Jews to hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what the Quran says about Christians and Jews below. Clearly the Quran does NOT say Islam is the only way to God or Heaven as PP asserted:


"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).

"O you who believe! Be helpers of God -- as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, 'Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?' Said the disciples, 'We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed" (61:14).

The Quran also says this:

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5:51)

Yes but this verse STILL doesn't say all Christians and Jews are going to hell unless they convert.

Allah speaks from two perspectives throughout the Quran- current perspective and past or overall perspective. At the time the Christians and Jews WERE trying to kill Islam off so a warning was issued here. But overall Allah speaks well of Christians and Jews.

Again, this doesn't say that Islam dooms all Christians or Jews to hell.

I appreciate that you're careful to specify that we're talking about Christians and Jews.

Hindus, American Indians, and other polytheists are unambiguously going to Hell, no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what the Quran says about Christians and Jews below. Clearly the Quran does NOT say Islam is the only way to God or Heaven as PP asserted:


"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).

"O you who believe! Be helpers of God -- as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, 'Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?' Said the disciples, 'We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed" (61:14).

The Quran also says this:

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5:51)

Yes but this verse STILL doesn't say all Christians and Jews are going to hell unless they convert.

Allah speaks from two perspectives throughout the Quran- current perspective and past or overall perspective. At the time the Christians and Jews WERE trying to kill Islam off so a warning was issued here. But overall Allah speaks well of Christians and Jews.

Again, this doesn't say that Islam dooms all Christians or Jews to hell.

Why do you make other people dig out the verses for you? I'm sick of this proselytizing nonsense.

Qur'an 3:86: How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their belief and had witnessed that the Messenger is true and clear signs had come to them? And Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people. Those - their recompense will be that upon them is the curse of Allah and the angels and the people, all together, abiding eternally therein. The punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved. Except for those who repent after that and correct themselves. For indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Qur'an 9:30. And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"We love everyone" as in you believe other paths are valid, or maybe some are more valid than others, but that's all okay because heaven is for all good people and you are not going to decide whether a person is good or bad based on their behavior or religious preference.

I don't doubt that you are expressing your feelings honestly, but the non-committal and uncertain nature of your belief is counter to the teachings of your religion. You claim to seek truth as part of your religious experience, yet you ignore the specific explicit claims of truth by your religion.

Who died and appointed you in charge of whether her belief is counter to the teachings of her religion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what the Quran says about Christians and Jews below. Clearly the Quran does NOT say Islam is the only way to God or Heaven as PP asserted:


"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).

"O you who believe! Be helpers of God -- as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, 'Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?' Said the disciples, 'We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed" (61:14).

The Quran also says this:

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5:51)

Yes but this verse STILL doesn't say all Christians and Jews are going to hell unless they convert.

Allah speaks from two perspectives throughout the Quran- current perspective and past or overall perspective. At the time the Christians and Jews WERE trying to kill Islam off so a warning was issued here. But overall Allah speaks well of Christians and Jews.

Again, this doesn't say that Islam dooms all Christians or Jews to hell.

I appreciate that you're careful to specify that we're talking about Christians and Jews.

Hindus, American Indians, and other polytheists are unambiguously going to Hell, no?

Shifting and dodging again. You made an assertion. It was wrong. You said in Islam, there is only one way to heaven/ god and that is by being a Muslim. This was patently false. Rather an acknowledging your error and apologizing, you quickly jump to different points, such as the treatment of Christians and Jews, then the jizya tax, and now how Islam treats Hindus, American Indians, and other polytheists.

You don't seem interested in learning the truth about Islam, you're jumping all over the place to try to vilify it.

As for Hindus, American Indians, and polytheists, Islam thinks any polytheistic belief system is a sin. If, however, they are polytheists due to no error of their own or due simply to lack of knowledge, Allah takes this into consideration. Islam thinks Christians who believe in trinity or that Jesus is God are off the right path too, but does not condemn them to hell, either if they simply had no way of knowing the truth.

If you want to learn more about islam, google the opinions of famous Muslim American scholars rather than trying to waste people's time here.

Rather than trying to vilify Islam, bring this back to the topic of the thread: Muslim perspective on marriage equality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what the Quran says about Christians and Jews below. Clearly the Quran does NOT say Islam is the only way to God or Heaven as PP asserted:


"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).

"O you who believe! Be helpers of God -- as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, 'Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?' Said the disciples, 'We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed" (61:14).

The Quran also says this:

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5:51)

Yes but this verse STILL doesn't say all Christians and Jews are going to hell unless they convert.

Allah speaks from two perspectives throughout the Quran- current perspective and past or overall perspective. At the time the Christians and Jews WERE trying to kill Islam off so a warning was issued here. But overall Allah speaks well of Christians and Jews.

Again, this doesn't say that Islam dooms all Christians or Jews to hell.

Why do you make other people dig out the verses for you? I'm sick of this proselytizing nonsense.

Qur'an 3:86: How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their belief and had witnessed that the Messenger is true and clear signs had come to them? And Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people. Those - their recompense will be that upon them is the curse of Allah and the angels and the people, all together, abiding eternally therein. The punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved. Except for those who repent after that and correct themselves. For indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Qur'an 9:30. And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

This thread was written BY a Muslim and intended FOR MUSLIMS ONLY, so no proselytizing going on here. Read the entire thread carefully before you post! BUT I will explain one of the verses you chose to pull…just as a favor:

Quran 9:30 has numerous possible translations. Look below at the many translations available in print and/or google (apparently your chosen method of religious education). If God has already said in certain other verses that Christians are decent folks overall and that Heaven is for Christians too, but then reveals 9:30, how do we reconcile that apparent contradiction?? If you don't understand the entire Quran, you'd be confused…as you obviously are. There is no contradiction, however. God IS angry with Christians who say Jesus is God or the son of God. But there are those Christians who are simply following what their forefathers believed, without any understanding of their wrongdoing. God doesn't deny Heaven to people who sin unknowingly or in ignorance. He curses the people who intentionally corrupted Jesus' message, but not the ignorant descendants who unknowingly followed ancestral beliefs. Thus, he will punish and/or deny those who intentionally corrupted the Gospel. He will not deny the kind, decent Christians who sinned unknowingly.

And here are the various translations of the verse you pulled. There are huge differences in the translation. Pickthall and Yusuf Ali are, by far, the most popular translations AMONG MUSLIMS BTW.

Sahih International: The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?

Pickthall: And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!

Yusuf Ali: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Shakir: And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

Muhammad Sarwar: Some of the Jews have said that Ezra is the son of God and Christians have said the same of Jesus. This is only what they say and it is similar to what the unbelievers who lived before them had said. May God destroy them wherever they exist!

Mohsin Khan: And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah's Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!

Arberry: The Jews say, 'Ezra is the Son of God'; the Christians say, 'The Messiah is the Son of God.' That is the utterance of their mouths, conforming with the unbelievers before them. God assail them! How they are perverted!


Enough...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what the Quran says about Christians and Jews below. Clearly the Quran does NOT say Islam is the only way to God or Heaven as PP asserted:


"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).

"O you who believe! Be helpers of God -- as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, 'Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?' Said the disciples, 'We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed" (61:14).

The Quran also says this:

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5:51)

Yes but this verse STILL doesn't say all Christians and Jews are going to hell unless they convert.

Allah speaks from two perspectives throughout the Quran- current perspective and past or overall perspective. At the time the Christians and Jews WERE trying to kill Islam off so a warning was issued here. But overall Allah speaks well of Christians and Jews.

Again, this doesn't say that Islam dooms all Christians or Jews to hell.

I appreciate that you're careful to specify that we're talking about Christians and Jews.

Hindus, American Indians, and other polytheists are unambiguously going to Hell, no?

Shifting and dodging again. You made an assertion. It was wrong. You said in Islam, there is only one way to heaven/ god and that is by being a Muslim. This was patently false. Rather an acknowledging your error and apologizing, you quickly jump to different points, such as the treatment of Christians and Jews, then the jizya tax, and now how Islam treats Hindus, American Indians, and other polytheists.

You don't seem interested in learning the truth about Islam, you're jumping all over the place to try to vilify it.

As for Hindus, American Indians, and polytheists, Islam thinks any polytheistic belief system is a sin. If, however, they are polytheists due to no error of their own or due simply to lack of knowledge, Allah takes this into consideration. Islam thinks Christians who believe in trinity or that Jesus is God are off the right path too, but does not condemn them to hell, either if they simply had no way of knowing the truth.

If you want to learn more about islam, google the opinions of famous Muslim American scholars rather than trying to waste people's time here.

Rather than trying to vilify Islam, bring this back to the topic of the thread: Muslim perspective on marriage equality.

How is it "shifting and dodging" to point out that there aren't "many" ways to heaven, given that the Hindu, Yazidi, American Indian, and other ways to heaven apparently lead to hell? Seems right to the point.

[Anonymous]

To be fair to the PP, *I* am the one who said there is only one path to God.

Based on my understanding of the Quran, the only time Christians and Jews are "cool with God" was before the final revelations of Muhammad. Who can fault Jews and Christians for believing what they believe before Muhammad came along? After all, Islam is simply an "expansion pack" and you can't fault someone for not playing a game when the game hasn't been released yet. Many Muslims twists this into the argument that as long as a Christian/Jew didn't learn about Islam, even modern day Christians/Jews, that's okay because they didn't know.

First, this contradicts with the versus condemning Christians/Jews who don't convert to Islam. Second, can you find any modern day Christians/Jews who have *not* heard of Islam? Substantially all modern day Christians and Jews have heard of Islam, have been told that there is one more revelation from a prophet called Muhammad, yet they rejected this knowledge as false. These Christians and Jews are going to hell according to the Quran.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what the Quran says about Christians and Jews below. Clearly the Quran does NOT say Islam is the only way to God or Heaven as PP asserted:


"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).

"O you who believe! Be helpers of God -- as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, 'Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?' Said the disciples, 'We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed" (61:14).

The Quran also says this:

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5:51)

Yes but this verse STILL doesn't say all Christians and Jews are going to hell unless they convert.

Allah speaks from two perspectives throughout the Quran- current perspective and past or overall perspective. At the time the Christians and Jews WERE trying to kill Islam off so a warning was issued here. But overall Allah speaks well of Christians and Jews.

Again, this doesn't say that Islam dooms all Christians or Jews to hell.

I appreciate that you're careful to specify that we're talking about Christians and Jews.

Hindus, American Indians, and other polytheists are unambiguously going to Hell, no?

Shifting and dodging again. You made an assertion. It was wrong. You said in Islam, there is only one way to heaven/ god and that is by being a Muslim. This was patently false. Rather an acknowledging your error and apologizing, you quickly jump to different points, such as the treatment of Christians and Jews, then the jizya tax, and now how Islam treats Hindus, American Indians, and other polytheists.

You don't seem interested in learning the truth about Islam, you're jumping all over the place to try to vilify it.

As for Hindus, American Indians, and polytheists, Islam thinks any polytheistic belief system is a sin. If, however, they are polytheists due to no error of their own or due simply to lack of knowledge, Allah takes this into consideration. Islam thinks Christians who believe in trinity or that Jesus is God are off the right path too, but does not condemn them to hell, either if they simply had no way of knowing the truth.

If you want to learn more about islam, google the opinions of famous Muslim American scholars rather than trying to waste people's time here.

Rather than trying to vilify Islam, bring this back to the topic of the thread: Muslim perspective on marriage equality.

How is it "shifting and dodging" to point out that there aren't "many" ways to heaven, given that the Hindu, Yazidi, American Indian, and other ways to heaven apparently lead to hell? Seems right to the point.

The assertion that was made was that in Islam there is only one way to God and/or Heaven and that is through Islam. This was absolutely a false statement. Now you are asserting that "there aren't MANY ways to Heaven…." Which statement am I to address and how many times will the question change?

Christians and Jews who do good deeds throughout their lives and believe in trinity unknowingly will go to Heaven. Polytheists, we are not sure about, but we know Allah considers intention in people's beliefs and oaths. Whether these constitute "MANY" or "few" people is a judgment you can make on your own. It's irrelevant because Islam does not purport to say all of mankind is going to Heaven with no conditions whatsoever. Does it have to? Does Christianity? Does Judaism? But the point is it is patently false to state that in Islam there is only one way to God and Heaven, via Islam only. That was your statement and it's false.