American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?

Anonymous
I may be wrong but all the Abrahamic faiths are in agreement about the origin of life
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My humble suggestion would be to become more devout in your own faith of Chrustianity or Judaism first. The devout Christians and Jews I know are kind and compassionate people who have never been accusatory, suspicious, or hostile towards my faith.


This is the argument equivalent of moving the goal post. Don't like Islam? It's because you are not devout enough. Only those who are not accusatory, suspicious, or hostile towards Islam are devout enough. [/quote

+1. I've read the Quran, Hadith and other sources both pro and against. After this effort, I reject Islam because I find many aspects incompatible with my values, or the values I'd attribute to a God. That makes me a careful thinker. It does not make me an "Islamophobe" who "vilifies" Islam.


If you are a careful thinker after reading these in English, then what are Muslims who embraced Islam after studying the Quran in Arabic and studying islamic history also?? Wouldn't they be considered vigilant in their study and even more careful in their thinking?


I do have great respect for people who follow Islam after much study, or who are unable to read the Quran, but are essentially following the golden rule.

However, I'm sick of your whoppers. You keep falling back on "millions of other people think this, so I'm right and you're an Islamophobe." OK then. As we've already discussed, most have NOT read the Quran in Arabic. Most have not read the Quran at all, let alone studied history or interpretations, because they're illiterate. Most were introduced to the faith -- and this is true for most faiths -- by their parents and culture.

Sure, a few converts fell for the false gambit that "Islam is just like Christianity except we don't believe Jesus is divine." I see you yourself have been pushing that whopper here on DCUM just a few pages ago.





I think I said already that just because Muslims may take Islam at face value doesn't mean you need to. Didn't I say that already? So what is it that bothers you still? That Muslims accept Islam at face value or the suggestion to study Islam more deeply? In many Muslim households, religion is an important part of upbringing. Children tend to believe that which they were taught to believe from an early age. The same may hold true for households of different religions. You were not raised with islamic beliefs so if you wish to try to understand it, you would need to study it.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
In the "earth-was-believed-to-be-flat" theory, groundbreaking revelation ultimately disproved their belief. There is no ground breaking revelation to disprove the existence of God.


It's impossible to prove a negative. Proof of God's existence has never been provided, either, so it's up to the believers to make the case for God.

Anonymous wrote: All believers in God know that the truth will be manifest on the Day of Judgment.

They don't know it. They believe it.

Anonymous wrote:Many people who were former staunch atheists have had NDE's which turned them into believers.

Many religious people have also abandoned their faith when the utter nonsensicality of it all turned them into unbelievers.

Anonymous wrote:The creation of life by random events is so unlikely that it has never been repeated. The statistical probability of such random occurrences that just happened to produce intelligent life is absurdly low, almost making it impossible.

That doesn't mean that God made it, and it especially doesn't mean that God is as he is described in the Quran.
Anonymous wrote:
Moreover, the perfection of the human body is so astounding that it is ridiculous to assume it occured by chance. There must be a Creator.

The human body is astoundingly imperfect, and if that's all Creator has to show, I wouldn't mention it too much.

Anonymous wrote:
The Quran mentioned how mankind was created, mentioned sperm, the early gestational periods, mentioned planets that travelled in orbits, that almost all life forms come in pairs of male and female. It mentioned that salt water and fresh water were kept separate with a barrier.

Quranic opinions on how mankind was created have nothing to do with science; that sperm exists can be noticed with a naked eye (it also never mentions the invisible parts - such as the egg). Quranic notions of embryonic development are half-borrowed from Greeks and half-invented; its theory of fetal gender determination is laughably false.


You must be very bored on this Thursday night to argue over semantics. No. From the believers perspective, they know it. From your perspective, they believe it.
Anonymous
Here is a good article distinguishing what Islam said about embryonic development and what the Greeks actually said:

http://www.islamicwritings.org/quran/medical-miracles/does-the-quran-plagiarise-ancient-greek-embryology/

Long article but a very enlightening read...
Anonymous
As for the atheist dogma that you can not disprove a negative....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=52XsW6jD4eg
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:But if you don't even believe in such rubbish, can't understand why you can't dismiss such people anyway.


I can't dismiss them. Because they will come to me and force aspects of their beliefs on me. For example, I mentioned I can't draw caricatures of Mohammad without being fearful of my safety, or my first amendment rights. Whether I am for or against abortion, some people vote on this issue based on their religious belief, these votes turn into laws, which directly impacts what I can or can't legally do. And of course as it has been pointed out repeatedly, we can't get any politicians elected if they claim to be atheist.

So no, I can't just dismiss them because they won't let me dismiss them. They insist on imposing their views on non-believers.



You want free and unfettered ability to draw denigrating pictures of an individual highly respected by 1.6 billion people. You wish to draw pictures of him insinuating he is a pedophile. You wish to draw cartoons of him as a sex obsessed individual. You want to present him in drawing as a man who abused women by denying them rights. You aren't concerned with the opinion or feelings of the 1.6 billion. Those 1.6 billion, in stark irony, would never draw caricatures or cartoons denigrating your beloved prophets or God. In fact, they have such respect for Mary, Jesus, Moses, and Isaac that they hold them in honor, equal to the prophet of their own religion.

Those who voice objections though violence are not acting in accordance with Islam. A pious person is generally a peaceful person. Don't let what fanatics or extremists do define your education about Islam.



Thanks for confirming that you do not feel that I should be free to me drawing a caricature of your prophet. I don't give a rats ass why you feel this way, the fact that you feel this way is proof positive that I cannot dismiss your belief in Islam, as been previously suggested, because you won't let me dismiss it. You insist that I follow your rules that are derived from your religion.

As for whether people who object through violence is in accordance with Islam, you have your interpretation, other believers have theirs. There's enough people who claim to be true believers of Islam who do object through violence that this is at least a point of contention, and not as clear cut as you claim.
Anonymous
Spermis visible with the naked eye? ?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:But if you don't even believe in such rubbish, can't understand why you can't dismiss such people anyway.


I can't dismiss them. Because they will come to me and force aspects of their beliefs on me. For example, I mentioned I can't draw caricatures of Mohammad without being fearful of my safety, or my first amendment rights. Whether I am for or against abortion, some people vote on this issue based on their religious belief, these votes turn into laws, which directly impacts what I can or can't legally do. And of course as it has been pointed out repeatedly, we can't get any politicians elected if they claim to be atheist.

So no, I can't just dismiss them because they won't let me dismiss them. They insist on imposing their views on non-believers.



You want free and unfettered ability to draw denigrating pictures of an individual highly respected by 1.6 billion people. You wish to draw pictures of him insinuating he is a pedophile. You wish to draw cartoons of him as a sex obsessed individual. You want to present him in drawing as a man who abused women by denying them rights. You aren't concerned with the opinion or feelings of the 1.6 billion. Those 1.6 billion, in stark irony, would never draw caricatures or cartoons denigrating your beloved prophets or God. In fact, they have such respect for Mary, Jesus, Moses, and Isaac that they hold them in honor, equal to the prophet of their own religion.

Those who voice objections though violence are not acting in accordance with Islam. A pious person is generally a peaceful person. Don't let what fanatics or extremists do define your education about Islam.



Thanks for confirming that you do not feel that I should be free to me drawing a caricature of your prophet. I don't give a rats ass why you feel this way, the fact that you feel this way is proof positive that I cannot dismiss your belief in Islam, as been previously suggested, because you won't let me dismiss it. You insist that I follow your rules that are derived from your religion.

As for whether people who object through violence is in accordance with Islam, you have your interpretation, other believers have theirs. There's enough people who claim to be true believers of Islam who do object through violence that this is at least a point of contention, and not as clear cut as you claim.


Never said you couldn't draw caricatures. Re-read. Caricature away to your hearts content. But ask yourself this - does it make you feel good to hurt 1.6 billion people? Why denigrate their beloved prophet when they are not denigrating yours?
And...White supremacists express hatred for other racial groups. Doesn't mean all whites are supremacists, does it? A German singlehandedly led a killing spree on 6 mil Jews, but doesn't mean all Germans want to kill Jews. Don't get trapped into slippery slope thinking.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Never said you couldn't draw caricatures. Re-read. Caricature away to your hearts content. But ask yourself this - does it make you feel good to hurt 1.6 billion people? Why denigrate their beloved prophet when they are not denigrating yours?
And...White supremacists express hatred for other racial groups. Doesn't mean all whites are supremacists, does it? A German singlehandedly led a killing spree on 6 mil Jews, but doesn't mean all Germans want to kill Jews. Don't get trapped into slippery slope thinking.


How I feel about drawing caricatures of Mohammad is not the issue. The issue is that I should be free to do it, without fear of violence. And I should be able to do this anywhere, even in a majority Muslim country. The fact is, I can't. When the Charlie Hebdo attack occurred, none of the major news outlets in the US reprinted the cartoons in question. So even in the US, we are fearful of how Islamic religious beliefs may be applied to us non-believers, to the point that the news media censors themselves.

I never called all Muslims terrorists or extremist/fundamentalists. Re-read. The point is, whether Islam prescribes violence against non-believers as a mater of its core teaching is up to interpretation and debate. Whether white skin color makes that race superior, is not. There is sizable population of the Muslim population on both sides of the camp. There fore, it's not possible for one camp to just claim to be the right interpretation and discount the other side as "not acting in accordance with Islam", such as you've done. Well, you can do it, but I can point out that you are claiming from a position of bias.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:As for the atheist dogma that you can not disprove a negative....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=52XsW6jD4eg


No living T-Rex? How the heck do you know? Do we have a human simultaneously monitoring every single spot on Earth? If not, he is just making an assumption. I agree it is highly improbable that there is a living T-Rex, but an absolute proof that there isn't?

No Muslims in the US senate? How doe she know? Just as there may be closet Atheists in the senate, there can be closet Muslims in the senate. He doesn't know, and he is just making an assumption.

He then drags out the self-contradictory examples as a red herring.

I do agree, however, that you can prove a negative, so this is indeed often mis-used by atheists. Just that the examples given by Craig sucks.

The underlying issue of proving a negative, is actually one of burden of proof. The theists claim God exists, and when they hear that an atheist challenge that claim, respond with "prove that God doesn't exist". The response of an atheist shouldn't be "you can't prove a negative", but rather respond with "the burden of proof rests with the person making the claim, not for others to prove otherwise."
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Never said you couldn't draw caricatures. Re-read. Caricature away to your hearts content. But ask yourself this - does it make you feel good to hurt 1.6 billion people? Why denigrate their beloved prophet when they are not denigrating yours?
And...White supremacists express hatred for other racial groups. Doesn't mean all whites are supremacists, does it? A German singlehandedly led a killing spree on 6 mil Jews, but doesn't mean all Germans want to kill Jews. Don't get trapped into slippery slope thinking.


How I feel about drawing caricatures of Mohammad is not the issue. The issue is that I should be free to do it, without fear of violence. And I should be able to do this anywhere, even in a majority Muslim country. The fact is, I can't. When the Charlie Hebdo attack occurred, none of the major news outlets in the US reprinted the cartoons in question. So even in the US, we are fearful of how Islamic religious beliefs may be applied to us non-believers, to the point that the news media censors themselves.

I never called all Muslims terrorists or extremist/fundamentalists. Re-read. The point is, whether Islam prescribes violence against non-believers as a mater of its core teaching is up to interpretation and debate. Whether white skin color makes that race superior, is not. There is sizable population of the Muslim population on both sides of the camp. There fore, it's not possible for one camp to just claim to be the right interpretation and discount the other side as "not acting in accordance with Islam", such as you've done. Well, you can do it, but I can point out that you are claiming from a position of bias.


No, but what you essentially want me to contend is that violent opposition of caricatures is condoned by Islam. Whether white skin is superior is most certainly subject to interpretation and debate, else there would be no white supremacist groups in existence. It is subject to debate and interpretation by those who believe it. The same holds true for Muslim extremists.

Read this by Pew and tell me if even the majority of Muslims support violent extremism:
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/

As for your demand to do as you please with no regard to who it hurts, I ask you - WHY? Does it make the world more peaceful? Why is your conscience unaffected by the deep hurt of over a billion people? Should anyone be permitted to publish in Vatican city a caricature of Mary or Jesus? How about a mockery of the virgin Mary's "immaculate conception" ? No practicing Muslim would publish such a thing. And the basis is not of censorship but rather deep respect.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The Quran mentioned how mankind was created, mentioned sperm, the early gestational periods, mentioned planets that travelled in orbits, that almost all life forms come in pairs of male and female. It mentioned that salt water and fresh water were kept separate with a barrier.

Quranic opinions on how mankind was created have nothing to do with science; that sperm exists can be noticed with a naked eye (it also never mentions the invisible parts - such as the egg). Quranic notions of embryonic development are half-borrowed from Greeks and half-invented; its theory of fetal gender determination is laughably false.


The problem with the Quranic version is that there's no egg. In common with many belief systems of the time, the Quran has all life originating with the male, while the female is more or less an incubator.
Anonymous
The author is a medical school professor in KY, and he provides additional proof that the Quran said sex is determined by the male.
Anonymous
A reading on the face of the Quranic text, before heavy "interpretation", says that all of life is determined by the male. There's no egg on Quran. So sex, too, would necessarily be determined by the male.
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