American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't see it as hypocritical to support equal rights for others, even if they go against my personal beliefs/teachings, etc.

This isn't a perfect example, but here's one to better explain my meaning: I'd say that being a vegetarian is a better choice for moral, ethical, spiritual, and health reasons. But I don't believe it is wrong to eat meat, and I don't think it would be fair for others to restrict my diet because of their own beliefs.

Yes, but your type of vegetarian does not share the same mindset as religious fundamentalists - I don't use fundamentalist as a pejorative since these are actually the only religious types who are truly faithful to their religion. Both Christianity and Islam at their basic preaches the fact that their truth is the only truth, and that all other beliefs are false. So when a Muslim believes homosexuality is an abomination, they don't believe this only applies to Muslims, but that it applies to all people. So your attitude towards being a vegetarian is very very different from the core teachings of Christianity and Islam. In this regard, Vegans who practice their diet due to concerns for animal welfare is much more similar as they believe it is wrong for *anyone* to eat meat. If it was up to them, we'd all be vegans.

This is actually strong evidence that many of the founding fathers of this country were in fact secular in their true nature. It is very difficult to square one's true belief in Christianity with the thought that it is okay for others to believe what they want to believe. These are simply incompatible thoughts that people either avoid or brush aside when they bubble to the surface.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't see it as hypocritical to support equal rights for others, even if they go against my personal beliefs/teachings, etc.

This isn't a perfect example, but here's one to better explain my meaning: I'd say that being a vegetarian is a better choice for moral, ethical, spiritual, and health reasons. But I don't believe it is wrong to eat meat, and I don't think it would be fair for others to restrict my diet because of their own beliefs.

Yes, but your type of vegetarian does not share the same mindset as religious fundamentalists - I don't use fundamentalist as a pejorative since these are actually the only religious types who are truly faithful to their religion. Both Christianity and Islam at their basic preaches the fact that their truth is the only truth, and that all other beliefs are false. So when a Muslim believes homosexuality is an abomination, they don't believe this only applies to Muslims, but that it applies to all people. So your attitude towards being a vegetarian is very very different from the core teachings of Christianity and Islam. In this regard, Vegans who practice their diet due to concerns for animal welfare is much more similar as they believe it is wrong for *anyone* to eat meat. If it was up to them, we'd all be vegans.

This is actually strong evidence that many of the founding fathers of this country were in fact secular in their true nature. It is very difficult to square one's true belief in Christianity with the thought that it is okay for others to believe what they want to believe. These are simply incompatible thoughts that people either avoid or brush aside when they bubble to the surface.

FWIW, Christianity very clearly teaches that we shouldn't judge each other because only God can judge. Obviously many Christians missed that part of the gospels, but it's there in plain words. So in fact, plenty of Christians *can* square their own beliefs with the thought that others can believe what they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't see it as hypocritical to support equal rights for others, even if they go against my personal beliefs/teachings, etc.

This isn't a perfect example, but here's one to better explain my meaning: I'd say that being a vegetarian is a better choice for moral, ethical, spiritual, and health reasons. But I don't believe it is wrong to eat meat, and I don't think it would be fair for others to restrict my diet because of their own beliefs.

Yes, but your type of vegetarian does not share the same mindset as religious fundamentalists - I don't use fundamentalist as a pejorative since these are actually the only religious types who are truly faithful to their religion. Both Christianity and Islam at their basic preaches the fact that their truth is the only truth, and that all other beliefs are false. So when a Muslim believes homosexuality is an abomination, they don't believe this only applies to Muslims, but that it applies to all people. So your attitude towards being a vegetarian is very very different from the core teachings of Christianity and Islam. In this regard, Vegans who practice their diet due to concerns for animal welfare is much more similar as they believe it is wrong for *anyone* to eat meat. If it was up to them, we'd all be vegans.

This is actually strong evidence that many of the founding fathers of this country were in fact secular in their true nature. It is very difficult to square one's true belief in Christianity with the thought that it is okay for others to believe what they want to believe. These are simply incompatible thoughts that people either avoid or brush aside when they bubble to the surface.

FWIW, Christianity very clearly teaches that we shouldn't judge each other because only God can judge. Obviously many Christians missed that part of the gospels, but it's there in plain words. So in fact, plenty of Christians *can* square their own beliefs with the thought that others can believe what they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't see it as hypocritical to support equal rights for others, even if they go against my personal beliefs/teachings, etc.

This isn't a perfect example, but here's one to better explain my meaning: I'd say that being a vegetarian is a better choice for moral, ethical, spiritual, and health reasons. But I don't believe it is wrong to eat meat, and I don't think it would be fair for others to restrict my diet because of their own beliefs.

Yes, but your type of vegetarian does not share the same mindset as religious fundamentalists - I don't use fundamentalist as a pejorative since these are actually the only religious types who are truly faithful to their religion. Both Christianity and Islam at their basic preaches the fact that their truth is the only truth, and that all other beliefs are false. So when a Muslim believes homosexuality is an abomination, they don't believe this only applies to Muslims, but that it applies to all people. So your attitude towards being a vegetarian is very very different from the core teachings of Christianity and Islam. In this regard, Vegans who practice their diet due to concerns for animal welfare is much more similar as they believe it is wrong for *anyone* to eat meat. If it was up to them, we'd all be vegans.

This is actually strong evidence that many of the founding fathers of this country were in fact secular in their true nature. It is very difficult to square one's true belief in Christianity with the thought that it is okay for others to believe what they want to believe. These are simply incompatible thoughts that people either avoid or brush aside when they bubble to the surface.

FWIW, Christianity very clearly teaches that we shouldn't judge each other because only God can judge. Obviously many Christians missed that part of the gospels, but it's there in plain words. So in fact, plenty of Christians *can* square their own beliefs with the thought that others can believe what they want.

Well, that's a play on words. Sure only God can judge, but he has already judged and his decision on what is good/bad is written in the Bible, which Christians have faith in. All people are sinners in this fallen world, God has judged this to be true and Christians believe in this judgement. Don't accept Jesus as your savior? You are not going to be redeemed and are going to hell. No two ways about it. That decision has been made for you as a believer and practitioner. You can say "I am not judging" all you want, but living as a good Christian obligates you to believe that non Christians, people who don't accept Jesus as their savior, are sinners that will be going to hell. What's ironic to Atheists is that Christianity as an artificial human creation, is in fact humans judging other humans, but then makes the claim that they are not.

If you claim to be a Christian, yet you believe that other paths to god are just as valid, then you have the wrong interpretation of the Bible that you claim to have faith in. Either that or you are not truly a Christian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't see it as hypocritical to support equal rights for others, even if they go against my personal beliefs/teachings, etc.

This isn't a perfect example, but here's one to better explain my meaning: I'd say that being a vegetarian is a better choice for moral, ethical, spiritual, and health reasons. But I don't believe it is wrong to eat meat, and I don't think it would be fair for others to restrict my diet because of their own beliefs.

Yes, but your type of vegetarian does not share the same mindset as religious fundamentalists - I don't use fundamentalist as a pejorative since these are actually the only religious types who are truly faithful to their religion. Both Christianity and Islam at their basic preaches the fact that their truth is the only truth, and that all other beliefs are false. So when a Muslim believes homosexuality is an abomination, they don't believe this only applies to Muslims, but that it applies to all people. So your attitude towards being a vegetarian is very very different from the core teachings of Christianity and Islam. In this regard, Vegans who practice their diet due to concerns for animal welfare is much more similar as they believe it is wrong for *anyone* to eat meat. If it was up to them, we'd all be vegans.

This is actually strong evidence that many of the founding fathers of this country were in fact secular in their true nature. It is very difficult to square one's true belief in Christianity with the thought that it is okay for others to believe what they want to believe. These are simply incompatible thoughts that people either avoid or brush aside when they bubble to the surface.

FWIW, Christianity very clearly teaches that we shouldn't judge each other because only God can judge. Obviously many Christians missed that part of the gospels, but it's there in plain words. So in fact, plenty of Christians *can* square their own beliefs with the thought that others can believe what they want.

Well, that's a play on words. Sure only God can judge, but he has already judged and his decision on what is good/bad is written in the Bible, which Christians have faith in. All people are sinners in this fallen world, God has judged this to be true and Christians believe in this judgement. Don't accept Jesus as your savior? You are not going to be redeemed and are going to hell. No two ways about it. That decision has been made for you as a believer and practitioner. You can say "I am not judging" all you want, but living as a good Christian obligates you to believe that non Christians, people who don't accept Jesus as their savior, are sinners that will be going to hell. What's ironic to Atheists is that Christianity as an artificial human creation, is in fact humans judging other humans, but then makes the claim that they are not.

If you claim to be a Christian, yet you believe that other paths to god are just as valid, then you have the wrong interpretation of the Bible that you claim to have faith in. Either that or you are not truly a Christian.

I'm the American Muslim you've been speaking with, OP. I think there's a difference between saying "all paths are valid" and saying "I don't know what paths are more valid than others and don't want to judge another's path."

Sure, many of these religious texts condemn homosexuality. But that's about people who are homosexual to grapple with. I don't feel the need to decide if someone is a "good" or "bad" person or Muslim based on sexuality. I don't believe the world is that simplistic, and I think God is aware of the complexity.

I think you really seem to be struggling with your own beliefs and seem oddly threatened by others not following them. Why is that?

[Anonymous]

I'm the OP and not 09:49 btw.

I wasn't really expecting you to judge if homosexual Muslims or Muslims in a same sex marriage will go to hellfire. The totality of an individual's acts in life will determine if their path is valid. And certainly the decision as to WHO goes to hellfire is with Allah alone. I understand that for all we know, a Muslim who is struggling with restraining his homosexuality but who deeply loves Allah may end up in Heaven but the heterosexual Muslim who prays, fasts, but engages in fornication regularly with no regret may not. Allah only knows.

I was trying to determine Muslim perception of one act, the lone act of homosexuality or same sex marriage for a Muslim and if it offends Muslims deeply and spiritually.

This is different from acknowledging that all the religious texts prohibit homosexuality because this is passive tolerance. I'm asking if you have that deep abiding belief and faith in what the Quran says about homosexuality as opposed to passive tolerance in what it says.

I am not struggling with my belief on this issue at all. But I definitely feel the preservation of Islam is absolutely threatened by anyone who doesn't have deep faith in Quranic decrees. In the last ten or so years, I've watched the liberal media and certain advocacy groups push the gay agenda with great determination, and in the process, vilify religious people who reject homosexuality based on their faith. There has been intense pressure put on religious groups to reform their faith and make it more inclusive to accept homosexuality. Some American Muslims are buckling under this pressure and, as a result, are supporting same sex marriage or at least no longer comfortable to openly reject it.

I find their apprehension in openly rejecting that which the Quran already openly rejected very interesting. Were you a supporter of same sex marriage ten or fifteen years ago?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the American Muslim you've been speaking with, OP. I think there's a difference between saying "all paths are valid" and saying "I don't know what paths are more valid than others and don't want to judge another's path."

That's highly contradictory. You are a Muslim, by definition you've chosen a path which you've determined is at least somewhat more valid than other paths, assuming you have some degree of rationality. Take this mental test: how would you feel about declaring tomorrow that you are now a Christian. If you cannot accomplish this without some difficulty, then there is clearly some underlying reason for you to be a Muslim. As a Muslim, do you believe in the truth of the Koran and Hadith? If so, how do you square what the Koran and Hadith says about non-Muslims with the idea that Islam is perhaps no more valid than Christianity?

Anonymous wrote:
Sure, many of these religious texts condemn homosexuality. But that's about people who are homosexual to grapple with. I don't feel the need to decide if someone is a "good" or "bad" person or Muslim based on sexuality. I don't believe the world is that simplistic, and I think God is aware of the complexity.

No, that's absolutely wrong. As a Muslim, you subscribe to the truth of the Koran as it applies to the existence of our world and the universe. Your concept that Jesus was not the son of God doesn't just apply to Muslims, it applies to *EVERYONE*. Christians have it wrong about Jesus, Jews have it wrong by ignoring the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, Hindus have it wrong with their multitude of gods, this is the claim of your religion. You absolutely cannot say that Muslim beliefs about the world only apply to Muslims - this is counter to the very teachings of the Koran. You may not feel the need to decide if someone is good or bad based on sexuality, but your religion does, in no uncertain terms. By deviating from the clear and concise teachings of your claimed religion, you are a hypocrite.

Anonymous wrote:
I think you really seem to be struggling with your own beliefs and seem oddly threatened by others not following them. Why is that?

I find religion to be ridiculous as a system of factual belief and want those who are still trapped within it to see the ridiculousness. So whenever someone defaults to contemporary feel-good lazy brained interpretations of what their religion teaches, I am simply point these out so that they can't be ignored . It's not me who have to struggle with these conflicts, but the self claimed religious that must deal with with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP and not 09:49 btw.

I wasn't really expecting you to judge if homosexual Muslims or Muslims in a same sex marriage will go to hellfire. The totality of an individual's acts in life will determine if their path is valid. And certainly the decision as to WHO goes to hellfire is with Allah alone. I understand that for all we know, a Muslim who is struggling with restraining his homosexuality but who deeply loves Allah may end up in Heaven but the heterosexual Muslim who prays, fasts, but engages in fornication regularly with no regret may not. Allah only knows.

I was trying to determine Muslim perception of one act, the lone act of homosexuality or same sex marriage for a Muslim and if it offends Muslims deeply and spiritually.

This is different from acknowledging that all the religious texts prohibit homosexuality because this is passive tolerance. I'm asking if you have that deep abiding belief and faith in what the Quran says about homosexuality as opposed to passive tolerance in what it says.

I am not struggling with my belief on this issue at all. But I definitely feel the preservation of Islam is absolutely threatened by anyone who doesn't have deep faith in Quranic decrees. In the last ten or so years, I've watched the liberal media and certain advocacy groups push the gay agenda with great determination, and in the process, vilify religious people who reject homosexuality based on their faith. There has been intense pressure put on religious groups to reform their faith and make it more inclusive to accept homosexuality. Some American Muslims are buckling under this pressure and, as a result, are supporting same sex marriage or at least no longer comfortable to openly reject it.

I find their apprehension in openly rejecting that which the Quran already openly rejected very interesting. Were you a supporter of same sex marriage ten or fifteen years ago?

Hi OP, I am 09:49. It's ironic that me as an atheist find your position to be more agreeable than those who bend their beliefs to fit their own personal preference and yield to social pressures. If you claim to believe in something, have the basic integrity to exercise the belief with conviction. Otherwise, why bother at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP and not 09:49 btw.

I wasn't really expecting you to judge if homosexual Muslims or Muslims in a same sex marriage will go to hellfire. The totality of an individual's acts in life will determine if their path is valid. And certainly the decision as to WHO goes to hellfire is with Allah alone. I understand that for all we know, a Muslim who is struggling with restraining his homosexuality but who deeply loves Allah may end up in Heaven but the heterosexual Muslim who prays, fasts, but engages in fornication regularly with no regret may not. Allah only knows.

I was trying to determine Muslim perception of one act, the lone act of homosexuality or same sex marriage for a Muslim and if it offends Muslims deeply and spiritually.

This is different from acknowledging that all the religious texts prohibit homosexuality because this is passive tolerance. I'm asking if you have that deep abiding belief and faith in what the Quran says about homosexuality as opposed to passive tolerance in what it says.

I am not struggling with my belief on this issue at all. But I definitely feel the preservation of Islam is absolutely threatened by anyone who doesn't have deep faith in Quranic decrees. In the last ten or so years, I've watched the liberal media and certain advocacy groups push the gay agenda with great determination, and in the process, vilify religious people who reject homosexuality based on their faith. There has been intense pressure put on religious groups to reform their faith and make it more inclusive to accept homosexuality. Some American Muslims are buckling under this pressure and, as a result, are supporting same sex marriage or at least no longer comfortable to openly reject it.

I find their apprehension in openly rejecting that which the Quran already openly rejected very interesting. Were you a supporter of same sex marriage ten or fifteen years ago?

OP, I think the problem is that your question was unclear initially. I read you first question to be about the US laws that allow for gay marriage, not about a spiritual position about it. I answered with the mindset that I cannot support the government granting rights to one person that it does not to another. I don't feel pressure to feel this way at all (in fact, plenty of family members and friend's would disagree with my stance, I am sure). It's just a matter of how I feel a government should protect/treat its citizens.

I also agree with you that I think it is hard being religious in today's world. It has hard to be someone who believes in God and believes in obedience to God's decrees, especially if you're in academia or other largely "liberal," "progressive" fields. I have felt this too.

You want me to proclaim that homosexuality is a sin, and I do. But I don't/can't do more than that. I don't know what choices my gay friends have other than to build committed relationships with people they love and are attracted to. What do I do if a loved one who is Muslim is gay? Preach? Or love and support and reflect and pray?

I have more questions than answers and I turn to the Quran not just for rules to obey but for guidance about how to deal with questions, complexity, doubts, and difference, and I feel that throughout the Quran there are lessons about patience, tolerance, kindness, and forgiveness, doing what is right and praying for understanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the American Muslim you've been speaking with, OP. I think there's a difference between saying "all paths are valid" and saying "I don't know what paths are more valid than others and don't want to judge another's path."

That's highly contradictory. You are a Muslim, by definition you've chosen a path which you've determined is at least somewhat more valid than other paths, assuming you have some degree of rationality. Take this mental test: how would you feel about declaring tomorrow that you are now a Christian. If you cannot accomplish this without some difficulty, then there is clearly some underlying reason for you to be a Muslim. As a Muslim, do you believe in the truth of the Koran and Hadith? If so, how do you square what the Koran and Hadith says about non-Muslims with the idea that Islam is perhaps no more valid than Christianity?

You're right, I believe that through Islamic teachings, God has set out a way of life that is "best" for us. But I also think there are other good paths.

Anonymous wrote:
Sure, many of these religious texts condemn homosexuality. But that's about people who are homosexual to grapple with. I don't feel the need to decide if someone is a "good" or "bad" person or Muslim based on sexuality. I don't believe the world is that simplistic, and I think God is aware of the complexity.

No, that's absolutely wrong. As a Muslim, you subscribe to the truth of the Koran as it applies to the existence of our world and the universe. Your concept that Jesus was not the son of God doesn't just apply to Muslims, it applies to *EVERYONE*. Christians have it wrong about Jesus, Jews have it wrong by ignoring the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, Hindus have it wrong with their multitude of gods, this is the claim of your religion. You absolutely cannot say that Muslim beliefs about the world only apply to Muslims - this is counter to the very teachings of the Koran. You may not feel the need to decide if someone is good or bad based on sexuality, but your religion does, in no uncertain terms. By deviating from the clear and concise teachings of your claimed religion, you are a hypocrite.

I think you are misreading my post so that you have an opportunity articulate your frustration with religious people who seem hypocritical to you. I don't believe Jesus is the son of God. However, I don't think Christians are "bad" or that they will be denied Heaven necessarily by that belief.

Anonymous wrote:
I think you really seem to be struggling with your own beliefs and seem oddly threatened by others not following them. Why is that?

I find religion to be ridiculous as a system of factual belief and want those who are still trapped within it to see the ridiculousness. So whenever someone defaults to contemporary feel-good lazy brained interpretations of what their religion teaches, I am simply point these out so that they can't be ignored . It's not me who have to struggle with these conflicts, but the self claimed religious that must deal with with them.

I don't think anything I've said is lazy-brained. I think the questions and complexities so many religious people face (the things you call hypocritical or deliberately misinterpret so you can get on your soapbox) are a product of religious people struggling with conflict.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're right, I believe that through Islamic teachings, God has set out a way of life that is "best" for us. But I also think there are other good paths.

Unfortunately, this is not what Islam teaches. There are no other good paths - Islam is the one and only path. I know this position is tough to defend if you feel that there are other good people who hold differing beliefs. Religion has had to yield from their strict teachings time and time again throughout history. I hope people think about these things carefully, since they believe it affects the quality of their everlasting life that is sure to come after this one.

Anonymous wrote: I think you are misreading my post so that you have an opportunity articulate your frustration with religious people who seem hypocritical to you. I don't believe Jesus is the son of God. However, I don't think Christians are "bad" or that they will be denied Heaven necessarily by that belief.

It doesn't just seem hypocritical, it is hypocritical. The Quran is clear that only those Christians and Jews who convert to Islam after being exposed will be received into heaven. So all those Christians you see that you think are going to get into heaven, they are not according to your religion.

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think anything I've said is lazy-brained. I think the questions and complexities so many religious people face (the things you call hypocritical or deliberately misinterpret so you can get on your soapbox) are a product of religious people struggling with conflict.

It's lazy brained because there is an obvious difference between what you believe and what your religion teaches in no uncertain terms. Instead of asking yourself why this difference exists, you ignore it and happily parrot the latest "we-love-everyone" message. This is lazy brained because it avoids the mental exercise of seeking the truth, rather than just settle on something that feels numb and comfortable.

[Anonymous]

^ Where have I happily parroted the "we love everyone" message? I've only expressed my own feelings in an honest manner, and that is why there are complexities. I am seeking truth.

[Anonymous]

"We love everyone" as in you believe other paths are valid, or maybe some are more valid than others, but that's all okay because heaven is for all good people and you are not going to decide whether a person is good or bad based on their behavior or religious preference.

I don't doubt that you are expressing your feelings honestly, but the non-committal and uncertain nature of your belief is counter to the teachings of your religion. You claim to seek truth as part of your religious experience, yet you ignore the specific explicit claims of truth by your religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"We love everyone" as in you believe other paths are valid, or maybe some are more valid than others, but that's all okay because heaven is for all good people and you are not going to decide whether a person is good or bad based on their behavior or religious preference.

I don't doubt that you are expressing your feelings honestly, but the non-committal and uncertain nature of your belief is counter to the teachings of your religion. You claim to seek truth as part of your religious experience, yet you ignore the specific explicit claims of truth by your religion.

How am I supposed to commit to who goes to heaven? This is not something I'm in charge of.

I'm trying not to make claims about things I do not know or fully understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP and not 09:49 btw.

I wasn't really expecting you to judge if homosexual Muslims or Muslims in a same sex marriage will go to hellfire. The totality of an individual's acts in life will determine if their path is valid. And certainly the decision as to WHO goes to hellfire is with Allah alone. I understand that for all we know, a Muslim who is struggling with restraining his homosexuality but who deeply loves Allah may end up in Heaven but the heterosexual Muslim who prays, fasts, but engages in fornication regularly with no regret may not. Allah only knows.

I was trying to determine Muslim perception of one act, the lone act of homosexuality or same sex marriage for a Muslim and if it offends Muslims deeply and spiritually.

This is different from acknowledging that all the religious texts prohibit homosexuality because this is passive tolerance. I'm asking if you have that deep abiding belief and faith in what the Quran says about homosexuality as opposed to passive tolerance in what it says.

I am not struggling with my belief on this issue at all. But I definitely feel the preservation of Islam is absolutely threatened by anyone who doesn't have deep faith in Quranic decrees. In the last ten or so years, I've watched the liberal media and certain advocacy groups push the gay agenda with great determination, and in the process, vilify religious people who reject homosexuality based on their faith. There has been intense pressure put on religious groups to reform their faith and make it more inclusive to accept homosexuality. Some American Muslims are buckling under this pressure and, as a result, are supporting same sex marriage or at least no longer comfortable to openly reject it.

I find their apprehension in openly rejecting that which the Quran already openly rejected very interesting. Were you a supporter of same sex marriage ten or fifteen years ago?

OP, I think the problem is that your question was unclear initially. I read you first question to be about the US laws that allow for gay marriage, not about a spiritual position about it. I answered with the mindset that I cannot support the government granting rights to one person that it does not to another. I don't feel pressure to feel this way at all (in fact, plenty of family members and friend's would disagree with my stance, I am sure). It's just a matter of how I feel a government should protect/treat its citizens.

I also agree with you that I think it is hard being religious in today's world. It has hard to be someone who believes in God and believes in obedience to God's decrees, especially if you're in academia or other largely "liberal," "progressive" fields. I have felt this too.

You want me to proclaim that homosexuality is a sin, and I do. But I don't/can't do more than that. I don't know what choices my gay friends have other than to build committed relationships with people they love and are attracted to. What do I do if a loved one who is Muslim is gay? Preach? Or love and support and reflect and pray?

I have more questions than answers and I turn to the Quran not just for rules to obey but for guidance about how to deal with questions, complexity, doubts, and difference, and I feel that throughout the Quran there are lessons about patience, tolerance, kindness, and forgiveness, doing what is right and praying for understanding.

I am the OP. Then I suspect that you do feel and believe what I feel and believe. In Islam, we need to believe in God's decrees with our whole heart. If Islam says homosexuality is a sin, then it is a sin. We are to assume God knew the reason why. Perhaps He knew it was harmful to society. For whatever reason, we don't know, but we are asked to trust God.

However, God never commanded us to punish anyone for simply identifying themselves as gay. He Himself chose to punish Lot's people, but did not ask society to punish anyone for identifying as a homosexual. Islam is clear on the punishment of fornication, however, but even then death is never prescribed!!

I agree that Islam is a religion of mercy. If our loved one is gay, we are not to hurt or insult him;we are asked only to explain what the Quran says about their chosen lifestyle, and explain that it is a sin. Whether he refrains from homosexual acts is up to him. He may have been born gay, but in Islam God expects restraining oneself from sins. Everyone has challenges in life and the objective is to learn patience and self restraint in life.