I wish women would demand more in a relationship before getting intimate

[Anonymous]

I have a ten year old daughter, and my hope for her is that she respects her body, pursues her dreams, feels secure with the love of her family of origin and builds relationships with people who she cares about outside of her family of origin. I don't want her to have sex unless she wants to. I don't want her to use sex as a bargaining tool in a relationship. I want her to enjoy her body and not feel like there's any shame in that.

I have an 8 year old son. And my hopes for him are similar. I don't want him to disrespect the women in his life. Hookups don't mean disrespect if there's no slut to shame. There are only sluts when double standards are applied to male desire and female desire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And overall, I wish people were less promiscuous.

I look at a 26 year old who I have known since childhood. College graduate, so so job.

So far this woman has lived with two men, had at least 15 partners since the age of 15. Two STDs one requiring surgery. Around the time of the surgery, not one "Boyfriend" around. Even if they were around, they could do nothing for her since none of them have a thing to offer her. She is becoming more and more cynical at such a young age.
She told me that she wanted marriage, but in her world, that is almost a dirty word. She believed that if she uttered words like that to the men she dated, they would have run away. I suggested that she feel less ashamed of the M word and to treat herself well.

I am in healthcare and I see the burden of complications of sexual activity placed squarely on women. The worst thing is that many of these women have little to show for it.

I sometimes think that if more women held back and made greater demands from their partners things would change. I wish more women would be honest with themselves about what they really want.

Just a ramble, but don't want to see my dd who is just 10 in the same mess.

that's nice, dear

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

don't want to see my dd who is just 10 in the same mess

Why would she be in the same mess? Emotionally healthy, sexually active women do not turn out like this.

Stop making it about "sex". Then your daughter is more likely to be well adjusted.

+100
This! It's not about sex, it's not about promiscuity, it's about emotional health. And you will find emotionally healthy women on both ends of the promiscuity spectrum.

I have personally never met a promiscuous woman (or man) who is emotionally healthy.

Don't project your moral standards onto others. Emotional health is one thing. Strong libido a completely different thing and so is an open mind and sexuality.
There are people who are more uninhibited than others. Plain simple

Don't project your assumptions onto my statement. I am not talking about moral standards, I am talking about emotional health. This means having good friendships, being able to cope with difficult circumstances without the assistance of drugs or alcohol, showing kindness and compassion to others without expecting something in return, etc.

The promiscuous people that I have known well do not have these attributes that suggest emotional health.

Enjoying sex and not requiring a serious long term relationship to have it has nothing to do with having friends, not using drugs and being kind.

I'm just saying, I've noticed that correlation. I don't know what the root cause is or may be.

You have noticed no correlation. You are just projecting the moral standards of society. Projection--that's all.

Oh, and closed mind to boot, but you can work on that.

You have no idea how open or closed minded I am or what I've observed, especially based on 3-4 sentences. You are just trying to insult me. I am not impressed, and I wonder why you would attempt to make your point using insults, unless you don't have a very good argument. How do you know I am "projecting?" You are just attempting to make my observations seem illegitimate using random words.

What do you mean by "the moral standards of society?" Are you saying that kindness, stability, and friendships, are merely social constructs and having nothing to do with the emotional health of a person? In that case I would say that "emotional health" must mean nothing, as well, and is just a societal construct.

I am sorry, I did not mean to insult you. To me it sounded like you are projecting. From lumping stability, friendships, and promiscuity and drawing conclusions based on your own observations that I would dare assume are conjectural in nature unless you have empirical data from the line of work you do as a social worker or shrink.

That's all. Unless you are a psychiatrist, you don't really know who is stable, who has good friends etc. You can observe, and what you see may not all be what it seems on the surface. Thus you use your own past and thoughts and analyze and project based on your values. It is part of what we all too often do. It's how you create your points of view/labels on many things and find our own correlations between things...

No, sorry, saying "You're close-minded!" or "You're projecting!" is basically saying "I don't like what you're saying, so shut up!" Now you are saying "You're not a psychiatrist, or a scientist, so shut up!" There are very few psychiatrists or scientists posting on this board. We all go through life sorting through infinite amounts of data. What I have seen, personally, in my life, is that promiscuous people (men and women) are a big, big mess. A hot mess, if you will. It is extreme and obvious. Maybe you can explain that away by saying "oh that's what you've been socialized to believe," but in that manner you are de-legitimizing every personal observation that every person makes EVER. You are telling me not to trust my own eyes, and my own experience, because it is very important to you that we not contradict the idea that promiscuity is not immoral. Well ok. I'm not commenting on the morality of the issue. I don't look down on someone who wants to have sex. I'm saying that all of the promiscuous people I know are a big, hot, mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe how many women still equate low number of sexual partners with morality and emotional health.

No we are relating it to physical health, did you read?

To me, physical health is related to your education. Knowing how to be a grown woman and protect yourself. But OP's post is not about education, it forgoes that vital element of the story of the 26-year-old friend.

To me, it is a lack of education, sexual education, if a young woman chooses to sleep with men without a condom. She has to know what the risks are. It is the 21 century.

There are also issues of self-esteem that are apparent to me from OP's post. It is not that she is sleeping with man. It is why is she sleeping with this men? What is she getting from these relationships, what does she want from them? Does she even know or is she just going with the flow.

I am not judging her actions; it just seems that she lacks self-awareness and self-worth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

don't want to see my dd who is just 10 in the same mess

Why would she be in the same mess? Emotionally healthy, sexually active women do not turn out like this.

Stop making it about "sex". Then your daughter is more likely to be well adjusted.

+100
This! It's not about sex, it's not about promiscuity, it's about emotional health. And you will find emotionally healthy women on both ends of the promiscuity spectrum.

I have personally never met a promiscuous woman (or man) who is emotionally healthy.

Don't project your moral standards onto others. Emotional health is one thing. Strong libido a completely different thing and so is an open mind and sexuality.
There are people who are more uninhibited than others. Plain simple

Don't project your assumptions onto my statement. I am not talking about moral standards, I am talking about emotional health. This means having good friendships, being able to cope with difficult circumstances without the assistance of drugs or alcohol, showing kindness and compassion to others without expecting something in return, etc.

The promiscuous people that I have known well do not have these attributes that suggest emotional health.

Enjoying sex and not requiring a serious long term relationship to have it has nothing to do with having friends, not using drugs and being kind.

I'm just saying, I've noticed that correlation. I don't know what the root cause is or may be.

You have noticed no correlation. You are just projecting the moral standards of society. Projection--that's all.

Oh, and closed mind to boot, but you can work on that.

You have no idea how open or closed minded I am or what I've observed, especially based on 3-4 sentences. You are just trying to insult me. I am not impressed, and I wonder why you would attempt to make your point using insults, unless you don't have a very good argument. How do you know I am "projecting?" You are just attempting to make my observations seem illegitimate using random words.

What do you mean by "the moral standards of society?" Are you saying that kindness, stability, and friendships, are merely social constructs and having nothing to do with the emotional health of a person? In that case I would say that "emotional health" must mean nothing, as well, and is just a societal construct.

I am sorry, I did not mean to insult you. To me it sounded like you are projecting. From lumping stability, friendships, and promiscuity and drawing conclusions based on your own observations that I would dare assume are conjectural in nature unless you have empirical data from the line of work you do as a social worker or shrink.

That's all. Unless you are a psychiatrist, you don't really know who is stable, who has good friends etc. You can observe, and what you see may not all be what it seems on the surface. Thus you use your own past and thoughts and analyze and project based on your values. It is part of what we all too often do. It's how you create your points of view/labels on many things and find our own correlations between things...

No, sorry, saying "You're close-minded!" or "You're projecting!" is basically saying "I don't like what you're saying, so shut up!" Now you are saying "You're not a psychiatrist, or a scientist, so shut up!" There are very few psychiatrists or scientists posting on this board. We all go through life sorting through infinite amounts of data. What I have seen, personally, in my life, is that promiscuous people (men and women) are a big, big mess. A hot mess, if you will. It is extreme and obvious. Maybe you can explain that away by saying "oh that's what you've been socialized to believe," but in that manner you are de-legitimizing every personal observation that every person makes EVER. You are telling me not to trust my own eyes, and my own experience, because it is very important to you that we not contradict the idea that promiscuity is not immoral. Well ok. I'm not commenting on the morality of the issue. I don't look down on someone who wants to have sex. I'm saying that all of the promiscuous people I know are a big, hot, mess.

Alright, PP... Aren't you happy that you are not a big hot mess?! But who really cares, PP. So what if they are....How does that affect you is my question? It is them who are, not you, a big hot mess. Let them deal with their big hot mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe how many women still equate low number of sexual partners with morality and emotional health.

No we are relating it to physical health, did you read?

I'm one of the first one that responded to this thread. I specifically said the only problem I might see with women having a high number of sexual partners is physical health (if they don't protect themselves appropriately). That is the only straw the OP can grasp for. The rest is BS. Women can and should be sexual beings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe how many women still equate low number of sexual partners with morality and emotional health.

No we are relating it to physical health, did you read?

To me, physical health is related to your education. Knowing how to be a grown woman and protect yourself. But OP's post is not about education, it forgoes that vital element of the story of the 26-year-old friend.

To me, it is a lack of education, sexual education, if a young woman chooses to sleep with men without a condom. She has to know what the risks are. It is the 21 century.

There are also issues of self-esteem that are apparent to me from OP's post. It is not that she is sleeping with man. It is why is she sleeping with this men? What is she getting from these relationships, what does she want from them? Does she even know or is she just going with the flow.

I am not judging her actions; it just seems that she lacks self-awareness and self-worth.

All the knowledge in the world is not going to protect a person who has a lot of partners. After a while it is a combination of safety and luck. You minimize risk with fewer partners.
That said, YEs, self esteem plays a role, but many many women are not confident enough, or not smart enough, to protect themselves. That is what it is.

[Anonymous]

I am in healthcare and I see the burden of complications of sexual activity placed squarely on women. The worst thing is that many of these women have little to show for it.

I sometimes think that if more women held back and made greater demands from their partners things would change. I wish more women would be honest with themselves about what they really want.

But this is really part of the same mindset that sex is a bargaining tool, and these women just didn't invest their virtue wisely right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe how many women still equate low number of sexual partners with morality and emotional health.

No we are relating it to physical health, did you read?

I'm one of the first one that responded to this thread. I specifically said the only problem I might see with women having a high number of sexual partners is physical health (if they don't protect themselves appropriately). That is the only straw the OP can grasp for. The rest is BS. Women can and should be sexual beings.

You can be a "sexual being" with one partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No, sorry, saying "You're close-minded!" or "You're projecting!" is basically saying "I don't like what you're saying, so shut up!" Now you are saying "You're not a psychiatrist, or a scientist, so shut up!" There are very few psychiatrists or scientists posting on this board. We all go through life sorting through infinite amounts of data. What I have seen, personally, in my life, is that promiscuous people (men and women) are a big, big mess. A hot mess, if you will. It is extreme and obvious. Maybe you can explain that away by saying "oh that's what you've been socialized to believe," but in that manner you are de-legitimizing every personal observation that every person makes EVER. You are telling me not to trust my own eyes, and my own experience, because it is very important to you that we not contradict the idea that promiscuity is not immoral. Well ok. I'm not commenting on the morality of the issue. I don't look down on someone who wants to have sex. I'm saying that all of the promiscuous people I know are a big, hot, mess.

Alright, PP... Aren't you happy that you are not a big hot mess?! But who really cares, PP. So what if they are....How does that affect you is my question? It is them who are, not you, a big hot mess. Let them deal with their big hot mess.

OP started a board on this topic. Are we supposed to not talk about it because some people don't like what is being said?

Everyone has friends and relatives and people who they care about who have problems in their relationships, and we care, because we care about those people. What should OP say to someone like her friend? And it is good to sort through these issues. I have children. What am I going to teach them about sex, and relationships? Are the norms in our society healthy, and will following the crowd lead to their happiness and stability? Personally, I don't think so. It is good to discuss these issues, and have everyone give their opinion. People get so insulting and defensive, assuming that someone who disagrees with them is judging them. But I'm not. I just like talking about stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe how many women still equate low number of sexual partners with morality and emotional health.

No we are relating it to physical health, did you read?

I'm one of the first one that responded to this thread. I specifically said the only problem I might see with women having a high number of sexual partners is physical health (if they don't protect themselves appropriately). That is the only straw the OP can grasp for. The rest is BS. Women can and should be sexual beings.

You can be a "sexual being" with one partner.

Absolutely, you don't have to feel ashamed if you have had 40 or want 3 partners at one time. You just have to know the risks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No, sorry, saying "You're close-minded!" or "You're projecting!" is basically saying "I don't like what you're saying, so shut up!" Now you are saying "You're not a psychiatrist, or a scientist, so shut up!" There are very few psychiatrists or scientists posting on this board. We all go through life sorting through infinite amounts of data. What I have seen, personally, in my life, is that promiscuous people (men and women) are a big, big mess. A hot mess, if you will. It is extreme and obvious. Maybe you can explain that away by saying "oh that's what you've been socialized to believe," but in that manner you are de-legitimizing every personal observation that every person makes EVER. You are telling me not to trust my own eyes, and my own experience, because it is very important to you that we not contradict the idea that promiscuity is not immoral. Well ok. I'm not commenting on the morality of the issue. I don't look down on someone who wants to have sex. I'm saying that all of the promiscuous people I know are a big, hot, mess.

Alright, PP... Aren't you happy that you are not a big hot mess?! But who really cares, PP. So what if they are....How does that affect you is my question? It is them who are, not you, a big hot mess. Let them deal with their big hot mess.

OP started a board on this topic. Are we supposed to not talk about it because some people don't like what is being said?

Everyone has friends and relatives and people who they care about who have problems in their relationships, and we care, because we care about those people. What should OP say to someone like her friend? And it is good to sort through these issues. I have children. What am I going to teach them about sex, and relationships? Are the norms in our society healthy, and will following the crowd lead to their happiness and stability? Personally, I don't think so. It is good to discuss these issues, and have everyone give their opinion. People get so insulting and defensive, assuming that someone who disagrees with them is judging them. But I'm not. I just like talking about stuff.

You get insulted. I have no intention of insulting you. I, just like you, share my opinion. And we all know that opinions are like hmm, noses, everyone has one.

Lighten up, PP. It is all good. We are not solving world hunger here. Don't get emotionally highjacked by my responses. Just ignore them.

[Anonymous]

OP, how do you suggest women break out of that circle?

I guess I'm kinda like your friend, minus living with guys and the STD's, outside of two short relationships, I've been single my whole adult life (I'm 31).
I don't think I know how to have a normal healthy relationship because I was never in one (broke up with my last bf after 4 months because he didn't treat me very nice) and my parents had a terrible relationship.

I tried therapy but that did nothing to help matters.

I think people are quick to judge but not everyone is as lucky to be taught what a real healthy relationship should be like and how to find one and be in one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No, sorry, saying "You're close-minded!" or "You're projecting!" is basically saying "I don't like what you're saying, so shut up!" Now you are saying "You're not a psychiatrist, or a scientist, so shut up!" There are very few psychiatrists or scientists posting on this board. We all go through life sorting through infinite amounts of data. What I have seen, personally, in my life, is that promiscuous people (men and women) are a big, big mess. A hot mess, if you will. It is extreme and obvious. Maybe you can explain that away by saying "oh that's what you've been socialized to believe," but in that manner you are de-legitimizing every personal observation that every person makes EVER. You are telling me not to trust my own eyes, and my own experience, because it is very important to you that we not contradict the idea that promiscuity is not immoral. Well ok. I'm not commenting on the morality of the issue. I don't look down on someone who wants to have sex. I'm saying that all of the promiscuous people I know are a big, hot, mess.

Alright, PP... Aren't you happy that you are not a big hot mess?! But who really cares, PP. So what if they are....How does that affect you is my question? It is them who are, not you, a big hot mess. Let them deal with their big hot mess.

OP started a board on this topic. Are we supposed to not talk about it because some people don't like what is being said?

Everyone has friends and relatives and people who they care about who have problems in their relationships, and we care, because we care about those people. What should OP say to someone like her friend? And it is good to sort through these issues. I have children. What am I going to teach them about sex, and relationships? Are the norms in our society healthy, and will following the crowd lead to their happiness and stability? Personally, I don't think so. It is good to discuss these issues, and have everyone give their opinion. People get so insulting and defensive, assuming that someone who disagrees with them is judging them. But I'm not. I just like talking about stuff.

You get insulted. I have no intention of insulting you. I, just like you, share my opinion. And we all know that opinions are like hmm, noses, everyone has one.

Lighten up, PP. It is all good. We are not solving world hunger here. Don't get emotionally highjacked by my responses. Just ignore them.

Why do you think I am getting emotionally hijacked? What does that even mean? You can rest easy knowing that I don't really give a shit about this nonsense, pp, I just happen to be writing in a more serious tone. Cuz I feelz like it, LOLZ.

Better?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And overall, I wish people were less promiscuous.

I look at a 26 year old who I have known since childhood. College graduate, so so job.

So far this woman has lived with two men, had at least 15 partners since the age of 15. Two STDs one requiring surgery. Around the time of the surgery, not one "Boyfriend" around. Even if they were around, they could do nothing for her since none of them have a thing to offer her. She is becoming more and more cynical at such a young age.
She told me that she wanted marriage, but in her world, that is almost a dirty word. She believed that if she uttered words like that to the men she dated, they would have run away. I suggested that she feel less ashamed of the M word and to treat herself well.

I am in healthcare and I see the burden of complications of sexual activity placed squarely on women. The worst thing is that many of these women have little to show for it.

I sometimes think that if more women held back and made greater demands from their partners things would change. I wish more women would be honest with themselves about what they really want.

Just a ramble, but don't want to see my dd who is just 10 in the same mess.

I don't think the problem here is your young friend. It's not the woman. It's the guys. They have nothing to offer her. If you are worried about the future of young women, how about worrying about raising young men who have something to offer emotionally/physically/spiritually/financially to their female partners?