Parents of middle school girls, please...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Of course it's none of my business, but I struggle to understand how someone would be comfortable like that. School is an environment for learning - it's not a party or a time to "hang out." I believe students and teachers should dress accordingly.

Maybe they like how it looks. Maybe they like how it makes them feel. Maybe they like to be fashionable. Maybe they like to shock the bourgeoisie. Who knows? Different people have different reasons. If you're not their principal, their boss, or their parent, you don't have to worry about it.

I like to be fashionable, too, but in ways that don't involve exposing my ass. To each their own.

Exactly! There's nothing objectively wrong with choosing to either expose or not expose any body part not addressed by regulation or policy... so why not just let everyone make their own choices, mind our own business, and stop the judging?

But we're talking about the school environment. Do you REALLY not think that there is clothing that might be inappropriate to wear to school?

Of course. That's why we have principals and teachers to enforce the rules.

[Anonymous]

I see where our country is headed based on these loony responses. Let her wear a g-string to class, so long as she's comfortable!

smh

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see where our country is headed based on these loony responses. Let her wear a g-string to class, so long as she's comfortable!

smh

Nobody has said that.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I can't believe how this blew up.

I teach at a middle school -- a well-respected middle school with high expectations for students from school and home alike. Today I walked in behind a girl whose butt cheeks were revealed by her shorts. Kids were doing double takes; I did a double take. Our school dress code indicates that this is a body part that needs to be covered because not doing so can be distracting to others in the learning environment. I followed our school's procedure for dress code violations (which I tend to err on the side of leniency, but this was a clear violation), and in my shock, posted on DCUM during my first period planning time.

Didn't mean to spark any sort of outrage, and largely agree that it would be nice if we lived in a society where all were kind to each other and people were free to express themselves how they please, but that's not the case in my public school. So, to go back to my original point, parents, if you don't mind and in whatever philosophical way you want, it would be great if you could remind your children (sons, too!) of dress code expectations at this time of year. It saves us all unnecessary hassle. And if you disagree with the need to cover rear ends when in school, thanks for the green light for me to start wearing my booty shorts to teach your kids. (Just kidding.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see where our country is headed based on these loony responses. Let her wear a g-string to class, so long as she's comfortable!

smh

Nobody has said that.

Not exactly. But so much more importance seems to be placed on the will of the child rather than the greater good. Oh, mind your business, just listen to what the principal says! What BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the original PP on this post. I guess I don't understand what your and other posters are advocating: booty shorts on whomever wants to wear them? You don't show up to your first day of work in flip flops and cutoff shorts (unless you're working at the beach), so why should dressing for school be any different?

Furthermore, even if a child isn't actively victimized, what merit is there in exposing your flesh? By no means am I a prude, but whenever I see a girl or woman wearing shorts that literally expose their buttcheeks, I'm wondering what the motivation is there. Adding two inches to them to the hem isn't "bowing to opressive patriarchal forces," it's presenting oneself decently.

What am I advocating is that you wear the clothes that you want to wear and find appropriate, and let other people do the same. If somebody wears clothes to school that violate the dress code, that's their concern and the school's concern, not yours.

And if you want to know why a girl/woman wears shorts you find too short, you should ask her. Maybe she'll answer your question. Maybe she'll tell you it's none of your business.

Of course it's none of my business, but I struggle to understand how someone would be comfortable like that. School is an environment for learning - it's not a party or a time to "hang out." I believe students and teachers should dress accordingly.

I struggle to understand how people are comfortable in lots of different outfits, but that doesn't invalidate the fact that they are. Only the one wearing the clothes makes much sense to me to decide what clothes are worn. Yes, school is an environment for learning. And, like all other things, I think people are likely to do best when they're as comfortable as possible within the constraints of the rules. Whatever permitted clothing my child feels comfortable, happy, and confident in is fine by me. She mixes it up pretty frequently depending on the day, her schedule, and her mood. Not sure how someone else's clothing should matter to what a student does at school...and if my child's clothing causes her a distraction that's a matter for me, her, and her teacher to sort out.

No matter what? I don't understand this. I thought our job as adults is to guide our children, even if it means imposing rules that they don't like if it's in their best interest. And, yes, I think prohibiting booty shorts for tween girls is in their best interest.

I think you're being unrealistically idealistic. If a boy wore a shirt to school featuring a graphic of a woman in a string bikini, I would think (a) that it's sexist and (b) that it's distracting to other students. What do you think?

We have a different idea of what is in our child's best interest, that's all. Once they are past the toddler/preschool stage, I think it's their right to choose their clothing unless there's a safety issue. I absolutely give them the info about society having an idea of what clothes are appropriate for what places or activities, and why, and the implications of choosing to go against that. I think usually parents have greater wisdom and understanding of the world due to their life experience, and they should absolutely share that with their kids for their benefit so the kids are making informed choices. What I don't do, though, is insist they conform to societal standards on their clothing choice other than to follow rules where dress codes exist. I see no value in it, no necessity in it, and no moral imperative in it, whereas I do see potential harm in doing so.

A graphic of someone else, I might find sexist depending. I would probably think it was sexist if someone of any gender showed up wearing a graphic of someone else dressed in a stereotypical and revealing way. But I wouldn't find anything wrong with an individual person deciding to dress themselves any way they want...because that's a choice made only for them and doesn't seem to me to risk objectifying anyone like a shirt graphic of someone else might.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see where our country is headed based on these loony responses. Let her wear a g-string to class, so long as she's comfortable!

smh

Nobody has said that.

Not exactly. But so much more importance seems to be placed on the will of the child rather than the greater good. Oh, mind your business, just listen to what the principal says! What BS.

What greater good?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I can't believe how this blew up.

I teach at a middle school -- a well-respected middle school with high expectations for students from school and home alike. Today I walked in behind a girl whose butt cheeks were revealed by her shorts. Kids were doing double takes; I did a double take. Our school dress code indicates that this is a body part that needs to be covered because not doing so can be distracting to others in the learning environment. I followed our school's procedure for dress code violations (which I tend to err on the side of leniency, but this was a clear violation), and in my shock, posted on DCUM during my first period planning time.

Didn't mean to spark any sort of outrage, and largely agree that it would be nice if we lived in a society where all were kind to each other and people were free to express themselves how they please, but that's not the case in my public school. So, to go back to my original point, parents, if you don't mind and in whatever philosophical way you want, it would be great if you could remind your children (sons, too!) of dress code expectations at this time of year. It saves us all unnecessary hassle. And if you disagree with the need to cover rear ends when in school, thanks for the green light for me to start wearing my booty shorts to teach your kids. (Just kidding.)

This is what I was going to say to the poster who said something to the effect of "everyone should be free to wear whatever makes them most comfortable." I think it's ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Of course it's none of my business, but I struggle to understand how someone would be comfortable like that. School is an environment for learning - it's not a party or a time to "hang out." I believe students and teachers should dress accordingly.

Maybe they like how it looks. Maybe they like how it makes them feel. Maybe they like to be fashionable. Maybe they like to shock the bourgeoisie. Who knows? Different people have different reasons. If you're not their principal, their boss, or their parent, you don't have to worry about it.

I like to be fashionable, too, but in ways that don't involve exposing my ass. To each their own.

Exactly! There's nothing objectively wrong with choosing to either expose or not expose any body part not addressed by regulation or policy... so why not just let everyone make their own choices, mind our own business, and stop the judging?

But we're talking about the school environment. Do you REALLY not think that there is clothing that might be inappropriate to wear to school?

Me personally (the last PP you quoted)? No, I don't. But I do acknowledge that that is an extreme minority opinion and that the societal consensus, and thus school policy, disagrees. My children know they are to follow the school dress code for so long as they are attending a school with one. That said, when my child's shorts DO meet the dress code, and some random parent -- not even a teacher or anyone with authority at the school, which would be one thing although not really ok-- tells her she is dressed inappropriately, that I will take issue with, every time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the original PP on this post. I guess I don't understand what your and other posters are advocating: booty shorts on whomever wants to wear them? You don't show up to your first day of work in flip flops and cutoff shorts (unless you're working at the beach), so why should dressing for school be any different?

Furthermore, even if a child isn't actively victimized, what merit is there in exposing your flesh? By no means am I a prude, but whenever I see a girl or woman wearing shorts that literally expose their buttcheeks, I'm wondering what the motivation is there. Adding two inches to them to the hem isn't "bowing to opressive patriarchal forces," it's presenting oneself decently.

What am I advocating is that you wear the clothes that you want to wear and find appropriate, and let other people do the same. If somebody wears clothes to school that violate the dress code, that's their concern and the school's concern, not yours.

And if you want to know why a girl/woman wears shorts you find too short, you should ask her. Maybe she'll answer your question. Maybe she'll tell you it's none of your business.

Of course it's none of my business, but I struggle to understand how someone would be comfortable like that. School is an environment for learning - it's not a party or a time to "hang out." I believe students and teachers should dress accordingly.

I struggle to understand how people are comfortable in lots of different outfits, but that doesn't invalidate the fact that they are. Only the one wearing the clothes makes much sense to me to decide what clothes are worn. Yes, school is an environment for learning. And, like all other things, I think people are likely to do best when they're as comfortable as possible within the constraints of the rules. Whatever permitted clothing my child feels comfortable, happy, and confident in is fine by me. She mixes it up pretty frequently depending on the day, her schedule, and her mood. Not sure how someone else's clothing should matter to what a student does at school...and if my child's clothing causes her a distraction that's a matter for me, her, and her teacher to sort out.

No matter what? I don't understand this. I thought our job as adults is to guide our children, even if it means imposing rules that they don't like if it's in their best interest. And, yes, I think prohibiting booty shorts for tween girls is in their best interest.

I think you're being unrealistically idealistic. If a boy wore a shirt to school featuring a graphic of a woman in a string bikini, I would think (a) that it's sexist and (b) that it's distracting to other students. What do you think?

We have a different idea of what is in our child's best interest, that's all. Once they are past the toddler/preschool stage, I think it's their right to choose their clothing unless there's a safety issue. I absolutely give them the info about society having an idea of what clothes are appropriate for what places or activities, and why, and the implications of choosing to go against that. I think usually parents have greater wisdom and understanding of the world due to their life experience, and they should absolutely share that with their kids for their benefit so the kids are making informed choices. What I don't do, though, is insist they conform to societal standards on their clothing choice other than to follow rules where dress codes exist. I see no value in it, no necessity in it, and no moral imperative in it, whereas I do see potential harm in doing so.

A graphic of someone else, I might find sexist depending. I would probably think it was sexist if someone of any gender showed up wearing a graphic of someone else dressed in a stereotypical and revealing way. But I wouldn't find anything wrong with an individual person deciding to dress themselves any way they want...because that's a choice made only for them and doesn't seem to me to risk objectifying anyone like a shirt graphic of someone else might.

Okay. I admire how thoroughly you've examined your approach to parenting, but we obviously disagree. Agree to disagree! Something DCUM (and DC in general) would benefit from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see where our country is headed based on these loony responses. Let her wear a g-string to class, so long as she's comfortable!

smh

Nobody has said that.

Not exactly. But so much more importance seems to be placed on the will of the child rather than the greater good. Oh, mind your business, just listen to what the principal says! What BS.

What greater good?

How is anyone else's "greater good" served or harmed by what another person chooses to wear, exactly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the original PP on this post. I guess I don't understand what your and other posters are advocating: booty shorts on whomever wants to wear them? You don't show up to your first day of work in flip flops and cutoff shorts (unless you're working at the beach), so why should dressing for school be any different?

Furthermore, even if a child isn't actively victimized, what merit is there in exposing your flesh? By no means am I a prude, but whenever I see a girl or woman wearing shorts that literally expose their buttcheeks, I'm wondering what the motivation is there. Adding two inches to them to the hem isn't "bowing to opressive patriarchal forces," it's presenting oneself decently.

What am I advocating is that you wear the clothes that you want to wear and find appropriate, and let other people do the same. If somebody wears clothes to school that violate the dress code, that's their concern and the school's concern, not yours.

And if you want to know why a girl/woman wears shorts you find too short, you should ask her. Maybe she'll answer your question. Maybe she'll tell you it's none of your business.

Of course it's none of my business, but I struggle to understand how someone would be comfortable like that. School is an environment for learning - it's not a party or a time to "hang out." I believe students and teachers should dress accordingly.

I struggle to understand how people are comfortable in lots of different outfits, but that doesn't invalidate the fact that they are. Only the one wearing the clothes makes much sense to me to decide what clothes are worn. Yes, school is an environment for learning. And, like all other things, I think people are likely to do best when they're as comfortable as possible within the constraints of the rules. Whatever permitted clothing my child feels comfortable, happy, and confident in is fine by me. She mixes it up pretty frequently depending on the day, her schedule, and her mood. Not sure how someone else's clothing should matter to what a student does at school...and if my child's clothing causes her a distraction that's a matter for me, her, and her teacher to sort out.

No matter what? I don't understand this. I thought our job as adults is to guide our children, even if it means imposing rules that they don't like if it's in their best interest. And, yes, I think prohibiting booty shorts for tween girls is in their best interest.

I think you're being unrealistically idealistic. If a boy wore a shirt to school featuring a graphic of a woman in a string bikini, I would think (a) that it's sexist and (b) that it's distracting to other students. What do you think?

We have a different idea of what is in our child's best interest, that's all. Once they are past the toddler/preschool stage, I think it's their right to choose their clothing unless there's a safety issue. I absolutely give them the info about society having an idea of what clothes are appropriate for what places or activities, and why, and the implications of choosing to go against that. I think usually parents have greater wisdom and understanding of the world due to their life experience, and they should absolutely share that with their kids for their benefit so the kids are making informed choices. What I don't do, though, is insist they conform to societal standards on their clothing choice other than to follow rules where dress codes exist. I see no value in it, no necessity in it, and no moral imperative in it, whereas I do see potential harm in doing so.

A graphic of someone else, I might find sexist depending. I would probably think it was sexist if someone of any gender showed up wearing a graphic of someone else dressed in a stereotypical and revealing way. But I wouldn't find anything wrong with an individual person deciding to dress themselves any way they want...because that's a choice made only for them and doesn't seem to me to risk objectifying anyone like a shirt graphic of someone else might.

Okay. I admire how thoroughly you've examined your approach to parenting, but we obviously disagree. Agree to disagree! Something DCUM (and DC in general) would benefit from.

Sounds good to me, thanks for the civil (and interesting) discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see where our country is headed based on these loony responses. Let her wear a g-string to class, so long as she's comfortable!

smh

Nobody has said that.

Not exactly. But so much more importance seems to be placed on the will of the child rather than the greater good. Oh, mind your business, just listen to what the principal says! What BS.

What greater good?

The school community - parents, teachers, students, administrators, volunteers. If you read what OP posted, it seemed to make people uncomfortable that a pre-pubescent girl was exposing her ass. This is not "their problem." It is also the child's and, more importantly, her parent's problem!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I can't believe how this blew up.

I teach at a middle school -- a well-respected middle school with high expectations for students from school and home alike. Today I walked in behind a girl whose butt cheeks were revealed by her shorts. Kids were doing double takes; I did a double take. Our school dress code indicates that this is a body part that needs to be covered because not doing so can be distracting to others in the learning environment. I followed our school's procedure for dress code violations (which I tend to err on the side of leniency, but this was a clear violation), and in my shock, posted on DCUM during my first period planning time.

Didn't mean to spark any sort of outrage, and largely agree that it would be nice if we lived in a society where all were kind to each other and people were free to express themselves how they please, but that's not the case in my public school. So, to go back to my original point, parents, if you don't mind and in whatever philosophical way you want, it would be great if you could remind your children (sons, too!) of dress code expectations at this time of year. It saves us all unnecessary hassle. And if you disagree with the need to cover rear ends when in school, thanks for the green light for me to start wearing my booty shorts to teach your kids. (Just kidding.)

This is what I was going to say to the poster who said something to the effect of "everyone should be free to wear whatever makes them most comfortable." I think it's ridiculous.

I would honestly be fine with that. I know it's a minority opinion and odd, and I will own that. But I'm definitely not a hypocrite and I think it is usually inappropriate for anyone other than the person wearing the clothing to tell someone else what to wear unless safety is an issue. You, my daughter, anyone... our clothing shouldn't matter and should be our choice unless it's dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see where our country is headed based on these loony responses. Let her wear a g-string to class, so long as she's comfortable!

smh

Nobody has said that.

Not exactly. But so much more importance seems to be placed on the will of the child rather than the greater good. Oh, mind your business, just listen to what the principal says! What BS.

What greater good?

How is anyone else's "greater good" served or harmed by what another person chooses to wear, exactly?

We live in a society - what other people do affects us, and what we do affects others.