How to approach a friend in total denial

[Anonymous]

Meant ECT

[Anonymous]

The Menninger Clinic does not take insurance (they won't even work with you to get pre-authorized in the hopes of getting some out-of-network reimbursement), and their rates are astronomical, as can be seen here:

http://www.menningerclinic.com/patient-care/admissions/program-costs

I have no doubt they can do very good work, but they are also only accessible by the very privileged.

[Anonymous]

So 3 weeks at 2100 per day and 8 weeks at 1600 per day. So over 100K for something that may or may not help. OP can your friend afford that? Would you pay that much if there was no guarantee? Most people can't afford that. Instead of writing on this forum we should all be out lobbying for better and more accessible mental health care. From my experience, the family is expected to provide all of the support. Many people say they want this model (not having a system that is a safety net for those in need) when they vote. But they don't know what that looks like till it happens to them, or a friend. This is what it looks like. OP what your friend is going through is *normal* when a family member becomes mentally ill. The younger son doesn't like hanging out at home. That's what friend are for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi its OP here and I want to say thank you to most of you who offered good advice, given me a lot to think about.

I am walkinga fine line between saying nothing and just continuing to support her as I have to saying something.

We both know someone who a few years ago was in a similiar situation but with a daughter. The mom just refused to see and acknowledge how bad it was, maybe living with it every day she just got used to that as being her new norm.

People were very hushed about it because they saw the wall she put up. Sadly the D committed suicide about a year later, no one thought it was "that bad" and needless to say it has devastated that entire family. I keep thinking about them, maybe someone close to them SHOULD have spoken up and said something, urged them to do more, etc........

I am not saying that is the answer and it would solve anything, but I never want to feel like I didn't do all I could, that was the main reason I wrote this post and wanted to get peoples honest opinions. Thank you.

OP, you sound like you just don't get it. What exactly does "do more" mean to you? Do you know exactly what this young man's doctors have suggested, tried, etc.?
Are you an expert in schizophrenia and know there is something that they know about that they have not tried and is likely to be successful?
Do you really believe that they don't know that their ENTIRE family is in crisis? Do you not think that they want to find something to help them?
Exactly what is it that you plan on saying? Or are you under the delusion that you should just say "something" as if just saying "something" is going to magically make this boy not crazy??

What is with this interrogation?? Seriously though OP came here trying to ask us for advice and you were completely jumping down her throat!!! People on this forum of sometimes really blow me away!
She did not claim to have the answers or completely understand what's going on you know but she just wants to talk about the real possibility if it is at all possible putting him into a residential program- The way I see it it's coming from a caring place there's absolutely nothing wrong with broaching the subject as long as it's done delicately.

[Anonymous]

Except that such program does not exist. Or if it does it lasts for only 8 wks and anyway may be totally unaffordable. So the message the Friend may get is I really think you guys need to do something (impossible) i.e. I disapprove of your family life. I am all for open communication but make sure you have some idea what is out there and that it is not an impossibility. If the idea that OP has is to warehouse this young man in an institution forever so the family situation improves it might be important to know that institutions don't exist anymore since the deinstitutionalization movement. Not that this young man is beyond help. Maybe just ask the friend details about the residential settings so you can understand why they are hesitating. What I don't get about the residential center is how they can get the right mix of meds in 8 weeks. Meds can take that long to kick in but may not be the right fit so usually it takes longer. Maybe there are other residential facilities?

[Anonymous]

OP here I have only discussed residential treatment with her because SHE HAS BROUGHT IT UP SEVERAL TIMES as a possibility if these last meds do not work (which so far they are not). She acknowledged things are getting so bad for the family that they are really leaning in that direction.

Then if one little thing good happens she immediately thinks things are getting better (which I understand her desperate need for optimism) but then within a few days it goes back to how its been.

I really want to say stop kidding yourself this is a lifelong affliction which hopefully can be managed with the proper meds/therapy but I feel she has still not accepted that end of it.

I am taking her next week on a desperately needed 2 day spa trip as a mental break from her torment. If she wants to talk about then we will but I am not going to bring it up, I think she needs a major break from thinking, breathing and living this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here I have only discussed residential treatment with her because SHE HAS BROUGHT IT UP SEVERAL TIMES as a possibility if these last meds do not work (which so far they are not). She acknowledged things are getting so bad for the family that they are really leaning in that direction.

Then if one little thing good happens she immediately thinks things are getting better (which I understand her desperate need for optimism) but then within a few days it goes back to how its been.

I really want to say stop kidding yourself this is a lifelong affliction which hopefully can be managed with the proper meds/therapy but I feel she has still not accepted that end of it.

I am taking her next week on a desperately needed 2 day spa trip as a mental break from her torment. If she wants to talk about then we will but I am not going to bring it up, I think she needs a major break from thinking, breathing and living this.

OP, I truly hope that you are just coming off wrong in your posts, but really mean well in real life. Otherwise, who the freak are you to tell a suffering parent in the actual situation how to feel???
It's not as if they are not doing anything, they seem to be trying everything. STOP TRYING TO REGULATE HER HOPES AND FEELINGS!
That is not your place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here I have only discussed residential treatment with her because SHE HAS BROUGHT IT UP SEVERAL TIMES as a possibility if these last meds do not work (which so far they are not). She acknowledged things are getting so bad for the family that they are really leaning in that direction.

Then if one little thing good happens she immediately thinks things are getting better (which I understand her desperate need for optimism) but then within a few days it goes back to how its been.

I really want to say stop kidding yourself this is a lifelong affliction which hopefully can be managed with the proper meds/therapy but I feel she has still not accepted that end of it.

I am taking her next week on a desperately needed 2 day spa trip as a mental break from her torment. If she wants to talk about then we will but I am not going to bring it up, I think she needs a major break from thinking, breathing and living this.

OP, I truly hope that you are just coming off wrong in your posts, but really mean well in real life. Otherwise, who the freak are you to tell a suffering parent in the actual situation how to feel???
It's not as if they are not doing anything, they seem to be trying everything. STOP TRYING TO REGULATE HER HOPES AND FEELINGS!
That is not your place.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? You could not be more wrong!!!!! Regulate her hopes and feelings? No I am a friend and see her denial and the price it is costing both she, her family, her marriage, her health, it goes on. Its like a sinking ship where he is taking everyone done with him. Their younger son is suffering miserable and starting to engage in behavior that is questionable. I know it, she does not. I dont have the heart to tell her and burden her with one more thing.
Yes i see the writing on the wall and am not the only one. Her own sister has come to me about this. She too thinks she in serious denial. I am not alone in my thinking. I am here for her no matter what but am very very concerned about her at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here I have only discussed residential treatment with her because SHE HAS BROUGHT IT UP SEVERAL TIMES as a possibility if these last meds do not work (which so far they are not). She acknowledged things are getting so bad for the family that they are really leaning in that direction.

Then if one little thing good happens she immediately thinks things are getting better (which I understand her desperate need for optimism) but then within a few days it goes back to how its been.

I really want to say stop kidding yourself this is a lifelong affliction which hopefully can be managed with the proper meds/therapy but I feel she has still not accepted that end of it.

I am taking her next week on a desperately needed 2 day spa trip as a mental break from her torment. If she wants to talk about then we will but I am not going to bring it up, I think she needs a major break from thinking, breathing and living this.

OP, I truly hope that you are just coming off wrong in your posts, but really mean well in real life. Otherwise, who the freak are you to tell a suffering parent in the actual situation how to feel???
It's not as if they are not doing anything, they seem to be trying everything. STOP TRYING TO REGULATE HER HOPES AND FEELINGS!
That is not your place.

Reminds me so much of my own sister who dealt with this about 9 years ago with her son (22 at the time). It was really devastating for her whole family and us to watch but not be able to do anything about. Only when he tried to hurt himself was he admitted. Best thing that could have happened to their family. Your friend is doing her son no favors to allow him to sit and rot away in his room. Sorry to be so crude but that is it. He will not get better sitting there. He needs intense therapy 24/7. Can they afford it? It is outrageously expensive but some insurance companies like Oxford can help out (they did with my sister).

Lots of parents including my own sister think they can fix their kid. They can't. It just does not work that way. It is a complicated and an immense energy draining illness that ideally is overseen by professionals trained to deal with it, not parents who are emotionally over involved. That is my angle having lived through it with my nephew. The healing for their family only began once he left the house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here I have only discussed residential treatment with her because SHE HAS BROUGHT IT UP SEVERAL TIMES as a possibility if these last meds do not work (which so far they are not). She acknowledged things are getting so bad for the family that they are really leaning in that direction.

Then if one little thing good happens she immediately thinks things are getting better (which I understand her desperate need for optimism) but then within a few days it goes back to how its been.

I really want to say stop kidding yourself this is a lifelong affliction which hopefully can be managed with the proper meds/therapy but I feel she has still not accepted that end of it.

I am taking her next week on a desperately needed 2 day spa trip as a mental break from her torment. If she wants to talk about then we will but I am not going to bring it up, I think she needs a major break from thinking, breathing and living this.

OP, I truly hope that you are just coming off wrong in your posts, but really mean well in real life. Otherwise, who the freak are you to tell a suffering parent in the actual situation how to feel???
It's not as if they are not doing anything, they seem to be trying everything. STOP TRYING TO REGULATE HER HOPES AND FEELINGS!
That is not your place.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? You could not be more wrong!!!!! Regulate her hopes and feelings? No I am a friend and see her denial and the price it is costing both she, her family, her marriage, her health, it goes on. Its like a sinking ship where he is taking everyone done with him. Their younger son is suffering miserable and starting to engage in behavior that is questionable. I know it, she does not. I dont have the heart to tell her and burden her with one more thing.
Yes i see the writing on the wall and am not the only one. Her own sister has come to me about this. She too thinks she in serious denial. I am not alone in my thinking. I am here for her no matter what but am very very concerned about her at the same time.

Obviously you don't care about what anyone here has to say about the situation, so go ahead and tell her. And I hope she then tells you where you can shove your ignorance so she can have one less toxic person in her life.

[Anonymous]

I have heard Western State psychiatric hospital in Virginia is very good. To be admitted and to have a chance of your insurance paying, you have to be legally committed as a danger to yourself or others.

Otherwise insurance will pay for a few days at a time if you enter the hospital via the emergency room. The doctors have to get approval for each day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here I have only discussed residential treatment with her because SHE HAS BROUGHT IT UP SEVERAL TIMES as a possibility if these last meds do not work (which so far they are not). She acknowledged things are getting so bad for the family that they are really leaning in that direction.

Then if one little thing good happens she immediately thinks things are getting better (which I understand her desperate need for optimism) but then within a few days it goes back to how its been.

I really want to say stop kidding yourself this is a lifelong affliction which hopefully can be managed with the proper meds/therapy but I feel she has still not accepted that end of it.

I am taking her next week on a desperately needed 2 day spa trip as a mental break from her torment. If she wants to talk about then we will but I am not going to bring it up, I think she needs a major break from thinking, breathing and living this.

OP, I truly hope that you are just coming off wrong in your posts, but really mean well in real life. Otherwise, who the freak are you to tell a suffering parent in the actual situation how to feel???
It's not as if they are not doing anything, they seem to be trying everything. STOP TRYING TO REGULATE HER HOPES AND FEELINGS!
That is not your place.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? You could not be more wrong!!!!! Regulate her hopes and feelings? No I am a friend and see her denial and the price it is costing both she, her family, her marriage, her health, it goes on. Its like a sinking ship where he is taking everyone done with him. Their younger son is suffering miserable and starting to engage in behavior that is questionable. I know it, she does not. I dont have the heart to tell her and burden her with one more thing.
Yes i see the writing on the wall and am not the only one. Her own sister has come to me about this. She too thinks she in serious denial. I am not alone in my thinking. I am here for her no matter what but am very very concerned about her at the same time.

Obviously you don't care about what anyone here has to say about the situation, so go ahead and tell her. And I hope she then tells you where you can shove your ignorance so she can have one less toxic person in her life.

You mean because she does not agree with you? Sad. OP if you believe in your heart telling her what you want to tell her will open her eyes or at least get her to think about things differently then do it you are in the end doing her a favor and doing it because you care. Maybe more people need to stop worrying about stepping on someone toes and pipe up about the obvious. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

So OP are you thinking your friend is trying too hard or not hard enough? Who wants to accept that nothing will change with a mentally ill son?? And where do you think he is supposed to live? She is trying to save his life. Yes, in an ideal world there would be a positive environment where a young mentally ill man could live and have fantastic therapeutic services for as long as they are needed but I don't think that exists. If your friend doesn't have her son at home she might be even more overcome by worry and stress.

You should know that the prefrontal cortex of the brain is still in development phase until age 25+ for males. That is the part of the brain that has to do with executive function--planning, organization, emotional regulation, etc. Some people need longer at home to mature and have the skills to handle life. Maybe with all of their efforts he'll get stabilized and launch a little later.

Also, if she is coming to you and feels she is at the end of her rope, let her get there. Then she knows she is making her own decisions that sit well with HER heart instead of caving to well-meaning advice from others who can't possible know what she is dealing with, her feelings as a parent, and what she already knows.

I'm sorry it's hard for her other son. That is very hard. But he has a brother who is mentally ill for the time being and no matter what treatment and residential situation they find, the fact doesn't change. It also could end up worse than it is now.

You are kind to take your friend to the spa. That's a good role for you to have. Be a friend. If she talks about her situation, let her know you are concerned and you wish so much you could help them get their family situation back to what it was and ask how you can help. If you are concerned about her younger son you can bring that up to whatever degree you think is appropriate. That information may help her see the big picture. Ask her if she needs a sounding board to make a pro and con list for different decisions she is considering. Be an "objective" ear and don't assume she doesn't know what she's doing. Trust me, her fears for her son are greater than yours. That is not being in denial. She wants to know she is doing everything she can. People at that age grow and change a tremendous amount. I wouldn't write someone that young off as a lost cause ever.

[Anonymous]

I think you and your friend may benefit from reading a book called I'm Not Crazy, I Don't Need Help about dealing with family members with mental illnesses that make them unable to see that they are ill (primarily bipolar and schizophrenia).

Medication compliance is a big issue--people will spit out their pills secretly because they don't like the side effects and don't believe they need help--but some anti-psychotic meds are available as long-lasting shots. Your friend may want to ask her son's doctors about this if she hasn't already.

It sounds like your friend is aware of the drawbacks of a residential program. I'm not sure if her insurance would cover an intensive day program--basically 6 to 8 hours a day of therapy and programs to help those with mental illness while allowing them to live in their homes.

[Anonymous]

MYOB, be there for the younger son as much as you can. Sleepovers, outings, etc.