How to approach a friend in total denial

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly would you talk to them about? They have a child who is severely mentally ill, for whom they have not yet found an effective treatment, but whom they continue to try to help. They have looked into in-patient facilities for him, but by even the OP's own concession, they probably can't afford it. At this moment in time, the child is effectively non-functional. What new alternative does the OP have for them? To just throw him out onto the street to die? Because that's what would happen -- this isn't someone who's going to have an epiphany and straighten his life out, we're talking about a severely disabled person. If it were a physical handicap, would you make the same recommendation? So what do you think you will offer them, OP? What bright shiny new answer that they're completely unable to appreciate, despite the years they've been dealing with this?

I realize that all sounds angry, but as the sister of someone with similarly severe mental illness I cannot begin to tell you how offensive it is when someone, in their near-complete ignorance about how mental health treatment works, presumes to tell you how you're doing it all wrong.

Another thing I'm going to put out there, because obviously this thread has been a huge trigger for me. OP, if you want to help your friend, then do something constructive for her. Invite her younger son over more regularly so you can be a stable and caring influence for him. Invite her out for girls' nights, whether out somewhere, at your house where she might feel more comfortable hanging out in yoga pants, or offer to come keep her company with a bottle of wine if she doesn't feel she can leave him home alone. Ask her what other kinds of support you can offer. The next time you're running out to Target, ask if you can run some errands for her to take some stuff off her plate. Bring over a dinner, not because she asked you to, but in a "Hey, I made quiche for dinner last night and have an extra one, why don't I bring it by" way. Actually be a help and support to her, rather than just one more person dumping on her. I guarantee you, she gets that enough already.

OP, THIS is the best advice you will get here... all the posters saying it is your business to get in your friends business are just spouting out their butts and freakin' clueless

[Anonymous]

My ex husband was exactly like this at age 23...he was, I am nearly certain, in the early stages of severe incapacitating mental illness. I dont think his parents or really anyone noticed how bad off he was until we divorced. Inside the relationship with him it was insane. And what made it worse was that everyone around him took the stay out of it attitude. I felt like I was in a psychological horror film and no one except one therapist and two friends who lived several hours away kept giving me a reality check. I own my mistakes but damn...of the HUGE social support network he had not a single person FORCEFULLY spoke up. Everyone was meek and said "its their relationship, hes an adult, blah blah blah). I left him quite abruptly for my safety and figured his family would help him. They did but last I heard he was jobless and homeless. It is the saddest shit ever...and a lot of shit could have been prevented or minimized if someone had recognized and treated his illness earlier...before I ever entered the picture.

Stay out if you wish but I am forever thankful to the people in my life who didnt care if they pissed me off and spoke loudly and clearly to me about exactly what they thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My ex husband was exactly like this at age 23...he was, I am nearly certain, in the early stages of severe incapacitating mental illness. I dont think his parents or really anyone noticed how bad off he was until we divorced. Inside the relationship with him it was insane. And what made it worse was that everyone around him took the stay out of it attitude. I felt like I was in a psychological horror film and no one except one therapist and two friends who lived several hours away kept giving me a reality check. I own my mistakes but damn...of the HUGE social support network he had not a single person FORCEFULLY spoke up. Everyone was meek and said "its their relationship, hes an adult, blah blah blah). I left him quite abruptly for my safety and figured his family would help him. They did but last I heard he was jobless and homeless. It is the saddest shit ever...and a lot of shit could have been prevented or minimized if someone had recognized and treated his illness earlier...before I ever entered the picture.

Stay out if you wish but I am forever thankful to the people in my life who didnt care if they pissed me off and spoke loudly and clearly to me about exactly what they thought.

Except his parents aren't ignoring it. Frankly I think OP is talking out of her ass and has absolutely no idea what's going on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We'll, OP, if you feel so strongly about this perhaps it's time for you to help lobby for adequate psychiatric care and equal access to psychiatric care as physical care. Because let me tell you, you're the one who is confused and in denial.
Your friend is doing exactly what she can do: fighting for and supporting the survival of her son, who sounds like he has a severe combination of mental illnesses.

I know, I know- folks like you blame it on the drugs and booze. But those tend to be the symptoms of someone in severe crisis. Numb the pain, numb the voices, numb everything. It's self medication, and it's a very real phenomenon , and not nearly as much choice as you probably think it is.

Yep. Mental illness rips families apart. But there no alternatives, no help, few resources, and little recourse for a family with an adult member suffering mental illness.

If he was eating himself into disable eyes, we'd give him insulin. Or a heart bypass. But he's crazy, so we leave the family to deal with him.

You may not like the idea of shock therapy, but it's a last resort and highly effective treatment for those whom medication is not helping.

Not sure how old the younger son is, but you know what - life is hard, no matter what. Offer hi support and help - take him for weekends if you can. It's not his fault his parents have to care for his brother - and it's not THEIR fault, either. They just need soft ears, soft words, and a soft place to land. If you're truly a friend, this is your role.

Hats off to you pp!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My ex husband was exactly like this at age 23...he was, I am nearly certain, in the early stages of severe incapacitating mental illness. I dont think his parents or really anyone noticed how bad off he was until we divorced. Inside the relationship with him it was insane. And what made it worse was that everyone around him took the stay out of it attitude. I felt like I was in a psychological horror film and no one except one therapist and two friends who lived several hours away kept giving me a reality check. I own my mistakes but damn...of the HUGE social support network he had not a single person FORCEFULLY spoke up. Everyone was meek and said "its their relationship, hes an adult, blah blah blah). I left him quite abruptly for my safety and figured his family would help him. They did but last I heard he was jobless and homeless. It is the saddest shit ever...and a lot of shit could have been prevented or minimized if someone had recognized and treated his illness earlier...before I ever entered the picture.

Stay out if you wish but I am forever thankful to the people in my life who didnt care if they pissed me off and spoke loudly and clearly to me about exactly what they thought.

Are you crazy?
The bits parents have been seeking treatment , numerous times !!!
You do realize that a parental relationship and a marital one is totally different?
Did you even read the OP??????

[Anonymous]

What would you have her do? Sounds like her optimism is a coping mechanism.

[Anonymous]

What might you suggest OP to someone whose adult child has descended into madness?

[Anonymous]

to summarize: the young man may benefit from intensive in patient therapy. so far that is one option that has not been tried, whether for financial or emotional reasons, we do not know. while these programs may or may not work, I do not think its fair to equate them with 'shipping someone off.'

the OP thinks it is clearly the best solution and that her friend is in denial. that may be the case, or there may be other reasons.

OP, be supportive to the whole family. You can ask whether inpatient residential is an option and discuss it, but you can't lecture.

and sometimes, there is no fix. and that is heartbreaking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow OP. You are not a friend. You sound like a judgemental bitch. Would love to see what you would do in her situation.

How does OP sound like a bitch? Am i missing something here? She is trying to help a friend. We all know that sometimes in the name of love we can be blinded by our devotion to those closest to us that sometimes inhibits our abilities to make good decisions.

Sounds like that is the case here. As her friend she is asking if she should speak to her. Not a big deal. If it were me, I would but it sounds like she knows everything you will tell her. They just aren't ready to face up to it yet. They need to do it on their own timetable. Is the younger brother getting therapy? I sure hope so. My own brother was sent away for severe depression when it had just overtaken our family (I was 16 at the time and it was really really hard) so I am sensitive to it.

I loved him but i will never forget the day my parents took him, I felt free and like this huge black shroud of hopelessness was gone. It served him well too, he was gone for 6 months and came back a new person. Today he is a happy, well adjusted successful professional who is married with a daughter on the way. He thanks my parents every day for doing what they did (it was a huge financial sacrifice for them). We were far from wealthy but they did what they felt they needed to do and it was absolutely the right thing.

Good luck OP. I think if you are good enough friends there is nothing wrong with taking her out for lunch or coffee and telling her that you are just really concerned about her, their family, her other son, etc....come from a caring and supportive place.

I agree with PP. Sounds very reasonable to me. While it may not be easy to "ship off" a grown adult child, in order to help him function as an adult that seems like what needs to be done. There are institutes that handle depression, bipolar, etc.

OP, I think you are a good friend. While it's hard to see your friend go through so many emotions the last few years, I think you can have a subtle conversation with her and tell her how you see things. I'm sure she's thought of a lot of the suggestions outlined here but just hasn't had the courage to act on any of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly would you talk to them about? They have a child who is severely mentally ill, for whom they have not yet found an effective treatment, but whom they continue to try to help. They have looked into in-patient facilities for him, but by even the OP's own concession, they probably can't afford it. At this moment in time, the child is effectively non-functional. What new alternative does the OP have for them? To just throw him out onto the street to die? Because that's what would happen -- this isn't someone who's going to have an epiphany and straighten his life out, we're talking about a severely disabled person. If it were a physical handicap, would you make the same recommendation? So what do you think you will offer them, OP? What bright shiny new answer that they're completely unable to appreciate, despite the years they've been dealing with this?

I realize that all sounds angry, but as the sister of someone with similarly severe mental illness I cannot begin to tell you how offensive it is when someone, in their near-complete ignorance about how mental health treatment works, presumes to tell you how you're doing it all wrong.

Another thing I'm going to put out there, because obviously this thread has been a huge trigger for me. OP, if you want to help your friend, then do something constructive for her. Invite her younger son over more regularly so you can be a stable and caring influence for him. Invite her out for girls' nights, whether out somewhere, at your house where she might feel more comfortable hanging out in yoga pants, or offer to come keep her company with a bottle of wine if she doesn't feel she can leave him home alone. Ask her what other kinds of support you can offer. The next time you're running out to Target, ask if you can run some errands for her to take some stuff off her plate. Bring over a dinner, not because she asked you to, but in a "Hey, I made quiche for dinner last night and have an extra one, why don't I bring it by" way. Actually be a help and support to her, rather than just one more person dumping on her. I guarantee you, she gets that enough already.

OP, THIS is the best advice you will get here... all the posters saying it is your business to get in your friends business are just spouting out their butts and freakin' clueless

+1 PP, you are so wise and articulate and these are the words OP, and all of us, need to hear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:to summarize: the young man may benefit from intensive in patient therapy. so far that is one option that has not been tried, whether for financial or emotional reasons, we do not know. while these programs may or may not work, I do not think its fair to equate them with 'shipping someone off.'

the OP thinks it is clearly the best solution and that her friend is in denial. that may be the case, or there may be other reasons.

OP, be supportive to the whole family. You can ask whether inpatient residential is an option and discuss it, but you can't lecture.

and sometimes, there is no fix. and that is heartbreaking.

I worked inpatient psych for 5 years. Unless he's a danger to himself or others, he probably doesn't meet medical necessity for admission. Perhaps if he's undergoing a massive med change (i.e. 3 days to cycle off, a week to start new) but more than likely, insurance won't cover inpatient. And unless the parents want to pay a couple thousand dollars a day for limited improvement- inpatient psych would be throwing money away (based on the OP's description of the situation).

There is no quick fix- or really any fix- for schizophrenia. Just trying different cocktails of meds until you find the right combo. And even then the effects can diminish over time. Or they work, the patient feels better, and decides to stop taking meds.

Based on the OP- the parents are doing what they can and it sure as hell doesn't sound like they're in denial. As other PPs have very eloquently said- offer help and support to the parents. But there is no quick fix and don't push inpatient programs. If the guy's got a psychiatrist and therapist- let them present the treatment options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly would you talk to them about? They have a child who is severely mentally ill, for whom they have not yet found an effective treatment, but whom they continue to try to help. They have looked into in-patient facilities for him, but by even the OP's own concession, they probably can't afford it. At this moment in time, the child is effectively non-functional. What new alternative does the OP have for them? To just throw him out onto the street to die? Because that's what would happen -- this isn't someone who's going to have an epiphany and straighten his life out, we're talking about a severely disabled person. If it were a physical handicap, would you make the same recommendation? So what do you think you will offer them, OP? What bright shiny new answer that they're completely unable to appreciate, despite the years they've been dealing with this?

I realize that all sounds angry, but as the sister of someone with similarly severe mental illness I cannot begin to tell you how offensive it is when someone, in their near-complete ignorance about how mental health treatment works, presumes to tell you how you're doing it all wrong.

Another thing I'm going to put out there, because obviously this thread has been a huge trigger for me. OP, if you want to help your friend, then do something constructive for her. Invite her younger son over more regularly so you can be a stable and caring influence for him. Invite her out for girls' nights, whether out somewhere, at your house where she might feel more comfortable hanging out in yoga pants, or offer to come keep her company with a bottle of wine if she doesn't feel she can leave him home alone. Ask her what other kinds of support you can offer. The next time you're running out to Target, ask if you can run some errands for her to take some stuff off her plate. Bring over a dinner, not because she asked you to, but in a "Hey, I made quiche for dinner last night and have an extra one, why don't I bring it by" way. Actually be a help and support to her, rather than just one more person dumping on her. I guarantee you, she gets that enough already.

As a matter of fact I do just that, I have along with two others scheduled dinners to be delivered to their home on average 2-3 times a week. Her son you mentioned? Well most weekends he is at our house for at least 1 if not both nights of the weekend. I have been there well beyond what many would think is necessary so in this respect, I feel confident in saying I am doing all I can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly would you talk to them about? They have a child who is severely mentally ill, for whom they have not yet found an effective treatment, but whom they continue to try to help. They have looked into in-patient facilities for him, but by even the OP's own concession, they probably can't afford it. At this moment in time, the child is effectively non-functional. What new alternative does the OP have for them? To just throw him out onto the street to die? Because that's what would happen -- this isn't someone who's going to have an epiphany and straighten his life out, we're talking about a severely disabled person. If it were a physical handicap, would you make the same recommendation? So what do you think you will offer them, OP? What bright shiny new answer that they're completely unable to appreciate, despite the years they've been dealing with this?

I realize that all sounds angry, but as the sister of someone with similarly severe mental illness I cannot begin to tell you how offensive it is when someone, in their near-complete ignorance about how mental health treatment works, presumes to tell you how you're doing it all wrong.

Another thing I'm going to put out there, because obviously this thread has been a huge trigger for me. OP, if you want to help your friend, then do something constructive for her. Invite her younger son over more regularly so you can be a stable and caring influence for him. Invite her out for girls' nights, whether out somewhere, at your house where she might feel more comfortable hanging out in yoga pants, or offer to come keep her company with a bottle of wine if she doesn't feel she can leave him home alone. Ask her what other kinds of support you can offer. The next time you're running out to Target, ask if you can run some errands for her to take some stuff off her plate. Bring over a dinner, not because she asked you to, but in a "Hey, I made quiche for dinner last night and have an extra one, why don't I bring it by" way. Actually be a help and support to her, rather than just one more person dumping on her. I guarantee you, she gets that enough already.

As a matter of fact I do just that, I have along with two others scheduled dinners to be delivered to their home on average 2-3 times a week. Her son you mentioned? Well most weekends he is at our house for at least 1 if not both nights of the weekend. I have been there well beyond what many would think is necessary so in this respect, I feel confident in saying I am doing all I can.

so is your friend OP, and it really sucks but that is the situation they are in. You are a good friend to do these things, just be there for her they way you have been

[Anonymous]

So OP, that's your take away on all of this? Really? Done. Go back to your high horse of thinking you can be the one to swoop in and save these awful enabling parents and their terrible son.

Forget all the great advice you've received. Forget that you seem to have no idea how difficult it is to get someone who is over 18 into A treatment. People like you aren't a real friend. You find situations where you can feel superior and on a moral high ground. Awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly would you talk to them about? They have a child who is severely mentally ill, for whom they have not yet found an effective treatment, but whom they continue to try to help. They have looked into in-patient facilities for him, but by even the OP's own concession, they probably can't afford it. At this moment in time, the child is effectively non-functional. What new alternative does the OP have for them? To just throw him out onto the street to die? Because that's what would happen -- this isn't someone who's going to have an epiphany and straighten his life out, we're talking about a severely disabled person. If it were a physical handicap, would you make the same recommendation? So what do you think you will offer them, OP? What bright shiny new answer that they're completely unable to appreciate, despite the years they've been dealing with this?

I realize that all sounds angry, but as the sister of someone with similarly severe mental illness I cannot begin to tell you how offensive it is when someone, in their near-complete ignorance about how mental health treatment works, presumes to tell you how you're doing it all wrong.

Another thing I'm going to put out there, because obviously this thread has been a huge trigger for me. OP, if you want to help your friend, then do something constructive for her. Invite her younger son over more regularly so you can be a stable and caring influence for him. Invite her out for girls' nights, whether out somewhere, at your house where she might feel more comfortable hanging out in yoga pants, or offer to come keep her company with a bottle of wine if she doesn't feel she can leave him home alone. Ask her what other kinds of support you can offer. The next time you're running out to Target, ask if you can run some errands for her to take some stuff off her plate. Bring over a dinner, not because she asked you to, but in a "Hey, I made quiche for dinner last night and have an extra one, why don't I bring it by" way. Actually be a help and support to her, rather than just one more person dumping on her. I guarantee you, she gets that enough already.

As a matter of fact I do just that, I have along with two others scheduled dinners to be delivered to their home on average 2-3 times a week. Her son you mentioned? Well most weekends he is at our house for at least 1 if not both nights of the weekend. I have been there well beyond what many would think is necessary so in this respect, I feel confident in saying I am doing all I can.

Good, great, bully for you. Here's your pat on the back.

Having read this thread, do you now understand why shaking her by the shoulders and telling her she's doing it wrong would be the opposite of helpful?