How to approach a friend in total denial

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think most will say to mind my own business which basically is what I have done but heres the story.

A very good friends son has mental illness (depression, bipolar, possible schizophrenic ) They have been dealing with these for almost 4 years after he had to leave college. He could not deal (was also doing some drugs heavy drinking while in school) was exacerbated the problem of course.

He has been home pretty much at 23 doing nothing. No job, no school, stays home in his room. They have had him going to many drs and programs which all start with a bang but then fizzle out and this has been the cycle for over 3 years now. It is heartbreaking. It has taken a HUGE toll on their family, their happiness, they are mere skeleton of the family they once were. My friend is the eternal optimist, she can never admit things are really bad. VERY BAD.
Once in a great while when shes at a breaking point she will but rarely, I think it is her own coping mechanism.

They talk a lot about him going away to a facility to get treatment but don't "do". I think its part emotional and part financial. They do very well but still these places are a fortune. The way those closest to them see it they are without intentionally doing it, enabling him. He is not growing even one bit and every day he is getting older with nothing to show for it. It is sad. He can't live with them forever and stay in his room doing nothing.

For me seeing the effects its had on their younger son who is my sons very good friend has been heartbreaking to watch. I know they see it and have acknowledged it but I am starting to feel like they are being outright selfish in their relentless desire to "fix" him. It's not going to happen, they cannot fix him. He has been on literally every medication, and now they are even starting shock therapy. But whats happening is their younger son is starting to act out and its so obvious it is because of how troubled he is over this. He has expressed this many times to my son and resents his older brother still being home (won't allow friends to come over for fear of embarrassment since the older brother barely speaks it is obvious something is not quite right).

Bottom line I love my friend and feel for what they are going through, but I feel like i want to take her by the shoulders and say wake up, this is not changing, its not only not gotten better, its gotten worse and look at the expense. Their families happiness, her husband looks like a walking corpse he has lost so much weight, stopped his social sporting activities, my friend quit her part time job to oversee her son, and then you look at the younger son who is really suffering. It is so sad. Is it my place to say anything? It would be out of a place of nothing but total love and sincerity in hopes that they can be whole again.

Yes. It is your place to express concern for her and her family, and to point out how severely her family is affected. You act as a friend and provide her with the space to let down her relentless optimism mask and express her fears to you. You listen and support, you don't tell her what she is feeling or how she should feel. She should feel, after talkingto you, like you are there for her, not like you are watching her family for signs of its dissolution.

You do NOT say the underlined stuff to her. That stuff is judgmental and harmful to share. There's plenty you can share in terms of your actual observations that should convey what you want.

[Anonymous]

16:08 again. forgot to mention another reason to speak up. My family lost a member to suicide and the sort of denial you describe sounds like where we were the months before it happened. Reality checks can be helpful but must be done carefully so they aren't ignored.

[Anonymous]

I want to know how OP defines denial.
Does she actually think that her friend does not realize that her life is being devastated?
Other than offering a shoulder to cry on, a place to vent, OP needs to keep her unhelpful and uninformed trap shut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this isn't some failure to launch story or someone who is clinically depressed...

OP said he had multitude of mental health issues, including possible schizophrenia... If he presented as a danger to himself or others than an intervention would be absolutely necessary.

Other than that, it is something THEY need to navigate and you need to BUTT out of cause you have no idea. Saying something like you are thinking could END your friendship since you don't realize how insensitive you are coming off and don't get how hard this most be for them.

If they had an adult child with Down syndrome living with them would you say the same thing?

how would speaking to her friend be insensitive? I do not agree at all. I think if anything it shows she cares and sees the devastation it is causing. Sometimes you see things more objectively when you are not directly in the line of fire.
Friends speak to their friends about the good, the hard, the bad and the ugly. Period.

OP has many statements in her original posts that would be extremely insensitive. Being a support and expressing concern is one thing, but doing so brazenly when someone is already in crisis it can turn very easily into an attack. Well intention-ed or not she needs to choose her words carefully when expressing her opinions of what her friend "should do"

[Anonymous]

What exactly would you talk to them about? They have a child who is severely mentally ill, for whom they have not yet found an effective treatment, but whom they continue to try to help. They have looked into in-patient facilities for him, but by even the OP's own concession, they probably can't afford it. At this moment in time, the child is effectively non-functional. What new alternative does the OP have for them? To just throw him out onto the street to die? Because that's what would happen -- this isn't someone who's going to have an epiphany and straighten his life out, we're talking about a severely disabled person. If it were a physical handicap, would you make the same recommendation? So what do you think you will offer them, OP? What bright shiny new answer that they're completely unable to appreciate, despite the years they've been dealing with this?

I realize that all sounds angry, but as the sister of someone with similarly severe mental illness I cannot begin to tell you how offensive it is when someone, in their near-complete ignorance about how mental health treatment works, presumes to tell you how you're doing it all wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What exactly would you talk to them about? They have a child who is severely mentally ill, for whom they have not yet found an effective treatment, but whom they continue to try to help. They have looked into in-patient facilities for him, but by even the OP's own concession, they probably can't afford it. At this moment in time, the child is effectively non-functional. What new alternative does the OP have for them? To just throw him out onto the street to die? Because that's what would happen -- this isn't someone who's going to have an epiphany and straighten his life out, we're talking about a severely disabled person. If it were a physical handicap, would you make the same recommendation? So what do you think you will offer them, OP? What bright shiny new answer that they're completely unable to appreciate, despite the years they've been dealing with this?

I realize that all sounds angry, but as the sister of someone with similarly severe mental illness I cannot begin to tell you how offensive it is when someone, in their near-complete ignorance about how mental health treatment works, presumes to tell you how you're doing it all wrong.

Oh, and one other thing about the in-patient treatment OP proposes. If their child is unwilling to commit himself voluntarily, there is virtually nothing OP's friend can do to make it happen. He is legally an adult, and proving incompetence so that the parents can get guardianship over him is exceeding difficult. Further, if they try and they lose, they risk completely alienating him so that he actually does run off and die on the streets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What exactly would you talk to them about? They have a child who is severely mentally ill, for whom they have not yet found an effective treatment, but whom they continue to try to help. They have looked into in-patient facilities for him, but by even the OP's own concession, they probably can't afford it. At this moment in time, the child is effectively non-functional. What new alternative does the OP have for them? To just throw him out onto the street to die? Because that's what would happen -- this isn't someone who's going to have an epiphany and straighten his life out, we're talking about a severely disabled person. If it were a physical handicap, would you make the same recommendation? So what do you think you will offer them, OP? What bright shiny new answer that they're completely unable to appreciate, despite the years they've been dealing with this?

I realize that all sounds angry, but as the sister of someone with similarly severe mental illness I cannot begin to tell you how offensive it is when someone, in their near-complete ignorance about how mental health treatment works, presumes to tell you how you're doing it all wrong.

OP ARE YOU LISTENING?

[Anonymous]

Your friend is not in denial. She fully understands what she's dealing with. That being the hand they were dealt.

I know you're concerned but if I were you, I'd keep my feelings to myself, my opinion to myself and just be ready to have that shoulder for her to cry on.

It's her life and she's doing what she thinks is best. Whether right or wrong.

[Anonymous]

MYOFB. This is not a case of being in denial. They are trying to decide what to do. Unless they ask you, you aren't involved.

[Anonymous]

I am so sick of everyone saying stay out of it do not interfere. Well there are many cases where suicide could have been prevented if maybe everyone stepped out of their comfort zone a bit and did something and spoke up even when it was not comfortable!!
YES talk to your friend but be mindful of the devastation they are experiencing and preface it all by telling her how much you care and that you are there for her no matter what.

[Anonymous]

Op, how do you propose your friend force her adult son into this type of program. You talk as if he's simply depressed. He's not. I think you are ignorant and judgemental.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am so sick of everyone saying stay out of it do not interfere. Well there are many cases where suicide could have been prevented if maybe everyone stepped out of their comfort zone a bit and did something and spoke up even when it was not comfortable!!
YES talk to your friend but be mindful of the devastation they are experiencing and preface it all by telling her how much you care and that you are there for her no matter what.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am so sick of everyone saying stay out of it do not interfere. Well there are many cases where suicide could have been prevented if maybe everyone stepped out of their comfort zone a bit and did something and spoke up even when it was not comfortable!!
YES talk to your friend but be mindful of the devastation they are experiencing and preface it all by telling her how much you care and that you are there for her no matter what.

spoke up and did what? How is OP going to prevent a suicide? by saying something judgmental to her friend who is in an impossible situation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What exactly would you talk to them about? They have a child who is severely mentally ill, for whom they have not yet found an effective treatment, but whom they continue to try to help. They have looked into in-patient facilities for him, but by even the OP's own concession, they probably can't afford it. At this moment in time, the child is effectively non-functional. What new alternative does the OP have for them? To just throw him out onto the street to die? Because that's what would happen -- this isn't someone who's going to have an epiphany and straighten his life out, we're talking about a severely disabled person. If it were a physical handicap, would you make the same recommendation? So what do you think you will offer them, OP? What bright shiny new answer that they're completely unable to appreciate, despite the years they've been dealing with this?

I realize that all sounds angry, but as the sister of someone with similarly severe mental illness I cannot begin to tell you how offensive it is when someone, in their near-complete ignorance about how mental health treatment works, presumes to tell you how you're doing it all wrong.

Another thing I'm going to put out there, because obviously this thread has been a huge trigger for me. OP, if you want to help your friend, then do something constructive for her. Invite her younger son over more regularly so you can be a stable and caring influence for him. Invite her out for girls' nights, whether out somewhere, at your house where she might feel more comfortable hanging out in yoga pants, or offer to come keep her company with a bottle of wine if she doesn't feel she can leave him home alone. Ask her what other kinds of support you can offer. The next time you're running out to Target, ask if you can run some errands for her to take some stuff off her plate. Bring over a dinner, not because she asked you to, but in a "Hey, I made quiche for dinner last night and have an extra one, why don't I bring it by" way. Actually be a help and support to her, rather than just one more person dumping on her. I guarantee you, she gets that enough already.

[Anonymous]

We'll, OP, if you feel so strongly about this perhaps it's time for you to help lobby for adequate psychiatric care and equal access to psychiatric care as physical care. Because let me tell you, you're the one who is confused and in denial.
Your friend is doing exactly what she can do: fighting for and supporting the survival of her son, who sounds like he has a severe combination of mental illnesses.

I know, I know- folks like you blame it on the drugs and booze. But those tend to be the symptoms of someone in severe crisis. Numb the pain, numb the voices, numb everything. It's self medication, and it's a very real phenomenon , and not nearly as much choice as you probably think it is.

Yep. Mental illness rips families apart. But there no alternatives, no help, few resources, and little recourse for a family with an adult member suffering mental illness.

If he was eating himself into disable eyes, we'd give him insulin. Or a heart bypass. But he's crazy, so we leave the family to deal with him.

You may not like the idea of shock therapy, but it's a last resort and highly effective treatment for those whom medication is not helping.

Not sure how old the younger son is, but you know what - life is hard, no matter what. Offer hi support and help - take him for weekends if you can. It's not his fault his parents have to care for his brother - and it's not THEIR fault, either. They just need soft ears, soft words, and a soft place to land. If you're truly a friend, this is your role.