11yo DD furious that we don't allow screens M-Th

[Anonymous]

My 10 yo (11 in April) has almost identical rules.

[Anonymous]

I think rules like these should really depend on the kid. If I had a mild, obedient child who would voluntarily put down electronics to do homework or practice piano or do chores or go play outside, and who went to bed and fell asleep easily, then strict rules wouldn't be necessary

I've got 3 kids, the oldest is in 7th grade. We don't allow screen time during the week because we've learned through experience that it's difficult for our kids to transition away from it and it interferes with their sleep (if watching before bed). If a homework assignment requires or they would benefit from looking something up on the computer, we let them do that but we limit it. None of them have screens in their bedrooms. Two of them have ADHD and we need to ensure the develop good habits, especially as it relates to sleep and exercise. It doesn't come natural to them like it does for my kid without ADHD. DH and I don't watch TV during the week either - and don't miss it (we also don't have cable). I don't care if people think it's too strict or controlling. It's what works for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well, tough for your daughter. Your house, your rules.
I make stricter rules for my 10 year old. He knows whining about it will only annoy me, and that I'm not pleasant when annoyed.

Right, but what does that teach your kid? The fact that the person in charge makes rules which must be respected is an important lesson, of course, but what about other aspects?

Like learning why the rules are what they are, so he learns to set reasonable limits for himself.

Or developing autonomy to manage himself without the confines of strict rules.

Or learning negotiation and critical thinking skills -- if my kid has a valid reason for objecting to a rule and can articulate that in a logical and respectful way, I'm willing to at least hear her out and consider whether her points change my thinking about the rule.

Or fostering a respectful but open relationship, not one where the kid keeps quiet to avoid "unpleasantness" from annoyed parents. I get that there are times for a child to just keep his or her mouth shut, but I would want my kid to be able to talk to me if they found something at home completely unfair and grating.

Yeah- it sounds like PP is more concerned with a kid that obeys rather than one who can function independently.

Don't be silly, of course my children trust and confide in me. However whining, begging or demanding is not tolerated in my house.
I encourage them to present more persuasive and rational arguments, and those have won my 10 year old son the right, in theory, to play video games during the week. But only if he finishes his homework, his music, his chores, his native language homework, etc.
He was the one who proposed this arrangement!
By the time he's finished, he needs to relax and often prefers reading or playing with his sister. The secret is that I don't prohibit anything he wants to do, because that would breed resentment. I just make the prize hard to achieve, and that is my right as a parent. Sometimes on weekends he plays Minecraft with DH and DD, but then again, only after his work is done. I actually think it's a great game.

I see more and more parents giving in to their kids out of guilt that they're not child-centric enough and then feeling confused about where to draw the line. That's not teaching kids to be responsible.

You sound like a Chinese parent. I don't know if you are or not but I love your response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well, tough for your daughter. Your house, your rules.
I make stricter rules for my 10 year old. He knows whining about it will only annoy me, and that I'm not pleasant when annoyed.

Right, but what does that teach your kid? The fact that the person in charge makes rules which must be respected is an important lesson, of course, but what about other aspects?
Like learning why the rules are what they are, so he learns to set reasonable limits for himself.
Or developing autonomy to manage himself without the confines of strict rules.
Or learning negotiation and critical thinking skills -- if my kid has a valid reason for objecting to a rule and can articulate that in a logical and respectful way, I'm willing to at least hear her out and consider whether her points change my thinking about the rule.
Or fostering a respectful but open relationship, not one where the kid keeps quiet to avoid "unpleasantness" from annoyed parents. I get that there are times for a child to just keep his or her mouth shut, but I would want my kid to be able to talk to me if they found something at home completely unfair and grating.

Yeah- it sounds like PP is more concerned with a kid that obeys rather than one who can function independently.

Don't be silly, of course my children trust and confide in me. However whining, begging or demanding is not tolerated in my house.
I encourage them to present more persuasive and rational arguments, and those have won my 10 year old son the right, in theory, to play video games during the week. But only if he finishes his homework, his music, his chores, his native language homework, etc.
He was the one who proposed this arrangement!
By the time he's finished, he needs to relax and often prefers reading or playing with his sister. The secret is that I don't prohibit anything he wants to do, because that would breed resentment. I just make the prize hard to achieve, and that is my right as a parent. Sometimes on weekends he plays Minecraft with DH and DD, but then again, only after his work is done. I actually think it's a great game.

I see more and more parents giving in to their kids out of guilt that they're not child-centric enough and then feeling confused about where to draw the line. That's not teaching kids to be responsible.

You sound like a Chinese parent. I don't know if you are or not but I love your response.

Ha! Thanks. I am partly Asian, but my European mother was the "Tiger Parent" in the family. She prohibited many things, and I vowed not to do that to my kids. However I can make access to fun more or less laborious, as appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have always had this rule during the school year. Lately she is really upset about it. She says she just "wants to be normal". She says she is the only one. She cried herself to sleep about it 2 nights ago.

She has daily homework and gets it done without problems. She plays soccer 3 nights a week. She has lots of screen time Friday-Sunday.

She says we baby her and that our rules are abnormal. She still sits in the back seat, and is outraged about that too. She also has a "in bed by 8:45, lights out by 9pm" bedtime. She says this is also crazy. She has to get up at 6:15 for school start time of 7:30 so I worry about her getting enough rest.

Also, my hope is that if she doesn't have access to screens, she'll read. She used to be a voracious reader, but now there are so many things competing for her time. I feel she has stopped reading for pleasure and I worry that her vocaulary will not develop.

Is no screens M-Th excessively strict?

I do notice that virtually all of her classmates and soccer teammates sit in the front seat. I think she is actually the only one who sits in the back seat still. She weighs 80 pounds.

Three nights a week devoted to sports sounds really over the top to me. One night is plenty.

OP here. I agree with you somewhat. She is required to play/practice this much to be on her team. She does love it. She was one of only two girls on her regular season team who did not do two indoor leagues this winter. We stuck to one indoor league because I felt that 2 was excessive in every way. Now regular season practices are starting up. It's a lot. I feel we have come to a crossroads with soccer where she either has to practice and participate in tournaments a lot or move to rec. She loves her team and teammates. It is costly and I worry about injury. Declining to do 2 indoor leagues this winter reduced her playing time compared to her teammates, so we will see how that plays out this spring.

She benefits from exercise every day, and can be annoying to be around if she hasn't had movement. So that's a positive of all these practices. I wish I could just "send her out to run around", but there aren't any other kids close to her age playing outside in our neighborhood. I think they are all at sports or music practice.

My hsuband and I plan to allow her more autonomy with weekday screens, have to figure out how to go about it. I don't want her to think that she harrassed us into it and that this is an effective way to get rules changed, so we are going to sit tight for a little while longer. Great advice here, thanks.

I think you're missing an opportunity here -- yes, you don't want her to think she "harassed" you into it, but why is it a bad thing for her to hear that her position was heard and considered, and it made you change your mind? Think of this as a learning opportunity -- tell her you're going to have a family meeting that night to discuss bedtime and screen time, and if she wants to present calm, rational arguments and new ideas, you and DH will listen. Then tell her you're going to consider, and let her know your decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Three nights a week devoted to sports sounds really over the top to me. One night is plenty.

I'm curious- how old are your kids? By middle school, most school-sponsored sports have daily practice with 2-3 games per week. If you go the club route its not uncommon to have 3-4 nights per week. My kids are a freshman and junior, both are good (not great) at sports and aren't anywhere near a highly competitive level. Daughter has gymnastics 4 nights per week plus weekend competitions, son has basketball every week night, either practice or a game. Plus he works every other weekend at a grocery store. Its hectic at times but both have learned to manage their time very well and get most homework done in study hall or weekends. There are some late nights but its a trade off.

One night of sports per week is not common with older kids.

So with everything they do, if their homework is done I don't care how much screen time they have. Both have GPAs over 3.8 so if my son wants to play Destiny for hours on a night off, I gladly let him.

They don't go to school yet and my partner and I are going to homeschool. We are both on the same page on the fact that we won't let sports become a major deal in our family.

Thanks- that puts your opinion in perspective for me. In the next 6-10 years, your opinion may change significantly after you've BTDT. Extra-curricular activities don't necessarily need to be sports, it could be dance, ballet, an instrument, etc. If/when your child starts activities outside the home, it will probably be one day per week. But as they develop a passion for something, one day can turn into two, then three, and then four. For example, kids in the HS band play at home basketball games- typically 2-3 times per week. Its not sports that becomes a "major deal"- its life.

For example, here is my son's experience with basketball. K-3rd grade it was Saturday mornings for an hour, local rec group. 4th grade was a local rec league, one or two practices per week and games on Saturdays. That continued thru 6th grade. 7th and 8th grade was thru the school, practices were (on average) 3 days per week with 1 or 2 games per week, no weekends. Pretty much the same for freshman/JV ball. Now he's a junior, plays varsity, and has practice 3-4 times per week for a couple hours each, 2-3 games per week. He's not particularly good at it- he's a 6 foot hustle/energy guy with no aspiration to play beyond high school. But he loves the game and he's in great physical shape. Several of his best friends are active in the same sports or come to the games and cheer on the team. Its stereotypical HS kind of stuff and while sports isn't "a major deal" it is a time commitment.

Not every kid plays sports, nor should they necessarily do so. But IMO, extra curricular activities are important to a child's emotional and social development. The older they get, the greater the time commitment.

But I find it a little presumptuous to offer your opinion on Older Kids and Teenagers when yours are pre-K. Just my two cents.

We require it daily for our boys (the exercise requirement)---though we don't really have to tell them. I just stay after school and they play hard for an hour or more--football, basketball, soccer, etc with classmates. They have soccer practice 3 nights per week. Weekends we go up to HS track/field as a family--play 2v2 --parents vs kids or head to a park for pick up games (one that always has classmates/kids).

Dh and I exercise 5-6 days per week. To me this habit is equivalent to brushing your teeth. Our boys see it as normal.

Screen time issues--just use moderation and common sense not excess restrictions.

Screen time limitations by themselves are futile.

Model moderation in everything and daily exercise (like above) a must so its learned to be second nature.

[Anonymous]

Your daughter is right. Your rules are not the norm.

[Anonymous]

These rules are not the norm except the car thing. Why not give her 30 mins of screen time after homework is done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have always had this rule during the school year. Lately she is really upset about it. She says she just "wants to be normal". She says she is the only one. She cried herself to sleep about it 2 nights ago.

She has daily homework and gets it done without problems. She plays soccer 3 nights a week. She has lots of screen time Friday-Sunday.

She says we baby her and that our rules are abnormal. She still sits in the back seat, and is outraged about that too. She also has a "in bed by 8:45, lights out by 9pm" bedtime. She says this is also crazy. She has to get up at 6:15 for school start time of 7:30 so I worry about her getting enough rest.

Also, my hope is that if she doesn't have access to screens, she'll read. She used to be a voracious reader, but now there are so many things competing for her time. I feel she has stopped reading for pleasure and I worry that her vocaulary will not develop.

Is no screens M-Th excessively strict?

I do notice that virtually all of her classmates and soccer teammates sit in the front seat. I think she is actually the only one who sits in the back seat still. She weighs 80 pounds.

Three nights a week devoted to sports sounds really over the top to me. One night is plenty.

OP here. I agree with you somewhat. She is required to play/practice this much to be on her team. She does love it. She was one of only two girls on her regular season team who did not do two indoor leagues this winter. We stuck to one indoor league because I felt that 2 was excessive in every way. Now regular season practices are starting up. It's a lot. I feel we have come to a crossroads with soccer where she either has to practice and participate in tournaments a lot or move to rec. She loves her team and teammates. It is costly and I worry about injury. Declining to do 2 indoor leagues this winter reduced her playing time compared to her teammates, so we will see how that plays out this spring.

She benefits from exercise every day, and can be annoying to be around if she hasn't had movement. So that's a positive of all these practices. I wish I could just "send her out to run around", but there aren't any other kids close to her age playing outside in our neighborhood. I think they are all at sports or music practice.

My hsuband and I plan to allow her more autonomy with weekday screens, have to figure out how to go about it. I don't want her to think that she harrassed us into it and that this is an effective way to get rules changed, so we are going to sit tight for a little while longer. Great advice here, thanks.

I think you're missing an opportunity here -- yes, you don't want her to think she "harassed" you into it, but why is it a bad thing for her to hear that her position was heard and considered, and it made you change your mind? Think of this as a learning opportunity -- tell her you're going to have a family meeting that night to discuss bedtime and screen time, and if she wants to present calm, rational arguments and new ideas, you and DH will listen. Then tell her you're going to consider, and let her know your decision.

I agree with this. I think it's a great opportunity to show her that you are interested in her thoughts and open to her suggestions when she shares them in a reasonable way. It's also an opportunity to model flexibility. I assume you want her to listen to you and be open to changing her opinions and behavior based on your input. This is a great way to show her how to do it with grace, rather than having to "save face" etc.

I would be clear, however, that you are not doing this because she "wore you down" or because she cried and moped in her room for weeks etc. You're doing it because you agree she is old enough and responsible enough to have some screen time during the week. But there are some conditions. The first is that she meets her other obligations (homework etc.). The second is that she doesn't whine or complain when it's time to turn it off, and she doesn't try to wheedle or negotiate for extra time beyond what you all agree on upfront. This is not the START of an ongoing negotiation. It is what it is, and if she whines, cries, mopes or complains about it, the privilege is gone. (This rule worked well for us in the preschool years, and it remains a reference point for our kids.)

Meanwhile, I agree with sticking to your rule about sitting in the back seat, and I also agree with the early bedtime. Both are health and safety issues, and I would explain them as such. If you feel she would be more receptive to hearing it from a doctor, ask your pediatrician if he/she is willing to talk with DD about it. To me, these are no-brainers and you should remain firm.

[Anonymous]

I think no tv is fine. But she should be allowed maybe half an hour per day for communicating with her friends.

Restricting it entirely would've been like your parents not allowing you to talk on the phone five days a week.

[Anonymous]

"My hsuband and I plan to allow her more autonomy with weekday screens, have to figure out how to go about it. I don't want her to think that she harrassed us into it and that this is an effective way to get rules changed, so we are going to sit tight for a little while longer. Great advice here, thanks."

You sound controlling.

[Anonymous]

I set the expectation that--as a kid (with mom and dad's help) and as an adult (independently)--people have to balance needs and wants, responsibilities and electives, work and play.

I believe a person needs time to play, but also must attend to the schedule of work so it's not all left to the last minute.

Therefore, I ask that she "earn" her screen time. I help her set up a schedule for her work and we assign the value of each thing, value meaning how hard something is, how important it is determines how many minutes of TV, movie, or computer play time she earns by doing it.

This system means she pretty much self-regulates her work and screen time. She loves TV so much, as you might imagine, that she'll jump to her homework to get in a show.

For us, the important thing for making this work is to NEVER (meaning really almost never ever with few exceptions) deviate from the earn-it-to-watch-it system. Even during the summer, the weekends, when friends are over (at someone else's home, I don't monitor or regulate). I tell her she can watch AS MUCH TV AS HER HEART DESIRES... so long as she earns it.

[Anonymous]

My advice is to go the other way and get rid of the screens altogether. Then it doesn't become this carrot that is dangling on Friday, with Friday seeming OH so far away.

Screens are a very low focus in our house. We have one advanced maternal age laptop (upon which I'm typing). It sits in the kitchen and is not used that much, except for mostly quicker lookup type things (and of course the late night DCUM extravaganza!). So the kids don't witness the adults using it very much; instead the adults have modeled other activities which draw the kids in. The adults have cell phones which are not constantly in view/being used and even get left at home on outings. And honestly, there doesn't seem to be much time for idle screen time anyway - it's a really busy time of life. Anyway, there are five kids in the house ages 13 and down. None of them have any electronic device of any kind. There is a house phone that they can and do use to call their friends. My kids are happy, healthy, get lots of adult attention, are involved in really interesting activities, and do not beg about screen things at all. When they are at their friends houses, they are free to do whatever their friends do, such as video games, TV, or internet surfing, and we don't make a big deal out of it. And of course they watch TV when we go out to eat/the doctors office/at the gym/practically every public space so it's not like they are entirely cut off from such things. We've told our oldest that he is welcome to buy a phone when he has the money for it and the monthly plan. So far, he doesn't care enough to pursue it.

As for your situation OP, it seems plenty of people are more lax than you, so you have plenty of support to just loosen up. However, I agree with what some other posters have suggested - that you make her work for it. I would never "just give in" to her whining. I would probably make her wait a few weeks before I would even discuss it (just for basic self-discipline and development of patience -- and letting her know I'd be using that time to consider it) and if she whined about it during that time, I'd start tacking on extra weeks. Anyway, if she can demonstrate sufficient maturity and patience, then ultimately I might suggest a list of things that needed to be accomplished on either a daily or weekly basis in order for her to use her device during the week. I'd probably include some big ticket items on the list, like preparing dinner for the family once a week, keeping the bathroom scrubbed and clean, or visiting with an elderly neighbor on a regular basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think no tv is fine. But she should be allowed maybe half an hour per day for communicating with her friends.

Restricting it entirely would've been like your parents not allowing you to talk on the phone five days a week.

There was a lot of time I couldn't talk on the phone. For starters, there were 7 people living in my house and just one phone line. That phone line didn't have call waiting or any other feature, so calls had to be kept short unless permission was given to talk for a longer stretch. Then there was afterschool activities, homework, chores, long family dinner. So no, it's not like talking on the phone was this essential daily feature growing up.

[Anonymous]

I had OP's rule until my kids turned 12. Now when they finish homework, they can watch some TV but it I have learned it is more psychological with my kids. They want to watch it more when you say no. When I gave them permission, they don't really sit in front of the TV and watch. It becomes background noise mostly. Also, like a previous PP, now that my kids are older, they play a lot of sports and have practice 2-3 times per week and at least one game a week. They don't have much time for TV because when they get home, they eat dinner and have to do homework. After they do all that and shower, it's pretty much time for bed. They are tired. My son might watch college sports and daughter may watch one of her favorite shows on Netflix but it is not continous. You should reassess things as they get older.