Jewish life in an interfaith marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your MIL made a choice. She put her religion, and by extension, one side of her family before yours. Now YOU have a choice to make.

My choice would be to back up and build a world around your family, especially your children, that supports them and nurtures them, for who they are, because they are wonderful, amazing people, and not agents of a religion.

Your small-minded ILs' loss. I'm sorry, but sometimes as parents we need to choose the sources of love for our kids when a family tree doesn't provide it.

The same could be said of the PP. She is putting her religion above her MIL. Does she really not understand that a Jewish grandparent would not want to celebrate the baptism of her grandchild? In a million years, I would not celebrate my grandchild being baptized. The fact that the PP doesn't seem to get how she is hurting her MIL by baptizing her child speaks for itself.

So people should chose for their children whatever religion makes their MILs happy. Does that mean atheists should raise their child to be religious if it makes the MIL happy?

The point is that the PP is married to a Jew. Does she really think that his Jewish relatives want to celebrate that one of their relatives is Christian? I don't think it's unreasonable for this woman's MIL to feel the way she does. If the PP is going to baptize her child and then throw it in her MIL's face, she shouldn't be shocked and appalled at her MIL's reaction. Don't complain that someone is choosing religion over family when you are doing the exact same thing. The fact that her husband goes along with all of this is unbelievable.

You are a poor representation of an important religion and culture. Undoubtedly you will respond with your soft-gloved, fence-straddling approach when called out, but your true feelings are loud and clear. Prejudice is ugly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your MIL made a choice. She put her religion, and by extension, one side of her family before yours. Now YOU have a choice to make.

My choice would be to back up and build a world around your family, especially your children, that supports them and nurtures them, for who they are, because they are wonderful, amazing people, and not agents of a religion.

Your small-minded ILs' loss. I'm sorry, but sometimes as parents we need to choose the sources of love for our kids when a family tree doesn't provide it.

The same could be said of the PP. She is putting her religion above her MIL. Does she really not understand that a Jewish grandparent would not want to celebrate the baptism of her grandchild? In a million years, I would not celebrate my grandchild being baptized. The fact that the PP doesn't seem to get how she is hurting her MIL by baptizing her child speaks for itself.

So people should chose for their children whatever religion makes their MILs happy. Does that mean atheists should raise their child to be religious if it makes the MIL happy?

The point is that the PP is married to a Jew. Does she really think that his Jewish relatives want to celebrate that one of their relatives is Christian? I don't think it's unreasonable for this woman's MIL to feel the way she does. If the PP is going to baptize her child and then throw it in her MIL's face, she shouldn't be shocked and appalled at her MIL's reaction. Don't complain that someone is choosing religion over family when you are doing the exact same thing. The fact that her husband goes along with all of this is unbelievable.

Should PP have hidden that the child was baptized? Instead of a cryto-Jew, be a crypto-Christian?

Clearly PP's husband/the father of the child is content with raising a Christian child. He is choosing his family (wife and child) over his religion.

Does only blood family count?

Does the choice of religion only matter if the decision is to raise the child a Jew?

If a Christian MIL acted this way about her grandchild being raised Jewish, she would be flayed alive on DCUM as an anti-Semite!

+1,000,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your MIL made a choice. She put her religion, and by extension, one side of her family before yours. Now YOU have a choice to make.

My choice would be to back up and build a world around your family, especially your children, that supports them and nurtures them, for who they are, because they are wonderful, amazing people, and not agents of a religion.

Your small-minded ILs' loss. I'm sorry, but sometimes as parents we need to choose the sources of love for our kids when a family tree doesn't provide it.

The same could be said of the PP. She is putting her religion above her MIL. Does she really not understand that a Jewish grandparent would not want to celebrate the baptism of her grandchild? In a million years, I would not celebrate my grandchild being baptized. The fact that the PP doesn't seem to get how she is hurting her MIL by baptizing her child speaks for itself.

So people should chose for their children whatever religion makes their MILs happy. Does that mean atheists should raise their child to be religious if it makes the MIL happy?

The point is that the PP is married to a Jew. Does she really think that his Jewish relatives want to celebrate that one of their relatives is Christian? I don't think it's unreasonable for this woman's MIL to feel the way she does. If the PP is going to baptize her child and then throw it in her MIL's face, she shouldn't be shocked and appalled at her MIL's reaction. Don't complain that someone is choosing religion over family when you are doing the exact same thing. The fact that her husband goes along with all of this is unbelievable.

Should PP have hidden that the child was baptized? Instead of a cryto-Jew, be a crypto-Christian?

Clearly PP's husband/the father of the child is content with raising a Christian child. He is choosing his family (wife and child) over his religion.

Does only blood family count?

Does the choice of religion only matter if the decision is to raise the child a Jew?

If a Christian MIL acted this way about her grandchild being raised Jewish, she would be flayed alive on DCUM as an anti-Semite!

NP here. I don't think PP was suggesting that we should all choose our children's religion based on our MIL's preferences. But it is equally wrong to suggest that a Jewish MIL isn't entitled to have her own feelings about having a Christian grandchild. Compromise is hard, and even decisions made for all of the right reasons aren't always going to make everyone happy. E.g., even though it is right for my DH and I to live here in DC, I know it makes my mom sad that we don't live closer to her. We're not about to move across the country to please my mom, but she still has a right to miss us and wish we lived closer (so long as she expresses it in a reasonable, respectful way, which she does.) I love and respect my mom and her feelings, so I do what I can to make it up to her by calling regularly, skyping with the kids, flying out as much as we can, etc.

Obviously religion is more complicated, but it's the same idea. Your MIL is your husband's MOM and your kids' grandma. I assume she loves and cares about you guys, and if so she is going to have feelings about decisions that you make. She doesn't have to agree with everything you do, she just has to treat you respectfully.

In addition to the general fact that grandparents are going to feel feelings about their children and grandchildren, it is a fact that Jews, and older ones in particular, often have VERY strong feelings about having Jewish children and grandchildren. First of all, intermarriage is prohibited by Jewish law. But also, Jews have been persecuted and almost wiped out so many times throughout ancient and recent history, and it's natural that over time that would result in people who feel threatened by assimilation. And it's a fact taht interfaith marriages (on the whole) lead to assimilation. This is not personal and you should not take it personally.

Of course, Jewish grandparents should find a way to express their feelings in respectful ways, and only to the extent appropriate and comfortable for everyone. Whether or not it is respectful and appropriate to miss your child's communion, etc. is something only you and your DH can determine. But you can't, and shouldn't expect your MIL to have no feelings at all about having Christian grandchildren.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your MIL made a choice. She put her religion, and by extension, one side of her family before yours. Now YOU have a choice to make.

My choice would be to back up and build a world around your family, especially your children, that supports them and nurtures them, for who they are, because they are wonderful, amazing people, and not agents of a religion.

Your small-minded ILs' loss. I'm sorry, but sometimes as parents we need to choose the sources of love for our kids when a family tree doesn't provide it.

The same could be said of the PP. She is putting her religion above her MIL. Does she really not understand that a Jewish grandparent would not want to celebrate the baptism of her grandchild? In a million years, I would not celebrate my grandchild being baptized. The fact that the PP doesn't seem to get how she is hurting her MIL by baptizing her child speaks for itself.

So people should chose for their children whatever religion makes their MILs happy. Does that mean atheists should raise their child to be religious if it makes the MIL happy?

The point is that the PP is married to a Jew. Does she really think that his Jewish relatives want to celebrate that one of their relatives is Christian? I don't think it's unreasonable for this woman's MIL to feel the way she does. If the PP is going to baptize her child and then throw it in her MIL's face, she shouldn't be shocked and appalled at her MIL's reaction. Don't complain that someone is choosing religion over family when you are doing the exact same thing. The fact that her husband goes along with all of this is unbelievable.

Should PP have hidden that the child was baptized? Instead of a cryto-Jew, be a crypto-Christian?

Clearly PP's husband/the father of the child is content with raising a Christian child. He is choosing his family (wife and child) over his religion.

Does only blood family count?

Does the choice of religion only matter if the decision is to raise the child a Jew?

If a Christian MIL acted this way about her grandchild being raised Jewish, she would be flayed alive on DCUM as an anti-Semite!

NP here. I don't think PP was suggesting that we should all choose our children's religion based on our MIL's preferences. But it is equally wrong to suggest that a Jewish MIL isn't entitled to have her own feelings about having a Christian grandchild. Compromise is hard, and even decisions made for all of the right reasons aren't always going to make everyone happy. E.g., even though it is right for my DH and I to live here in DC, I know it makes my mom sad that we don't live closer to her. We're not about to move across the country to please my mom, but she still has a right to miss us and wish we lived closer (so long as she expresses it in a reasonable, respectful way, which she does.) I love and respect my mom and her feelings, so I do what I can to make it up to her by calling regularly, skyping with the kids, flying out as much as we can, etc.

Obviously religion is more complicated, but it's the same idea. Your MIL is your husband's MOM and your kids' grandma. I assume she loves and cares about you guys, and if so she is going to have feelings about decisions that you make. She doesn't have to agree with everything you do, she just has to treat you respectfully.

In addition to the general fact that grandparents are going to feel feelings about their children and grandchildren, it is a fact that Jews, and older ones in particular, often have VERY strong feelings about having Jewish children and grandchildren. First of all, intermarriage is prohibited by Jewish law. But also, Jews have been persecuted and almost wiped out so many times throughout ancient and recent history, and it's natural that over time that would result in people who feel threatened by assimilation. And it's a fact taht interfaith marriages (on the whole) lead to assimilation. This is not personal and you should not take it personally.

Of course, Jewish grandparents should find a way to express their feelings in respectful ways, and only to the extent appropriate and comfortable for everyone. Whether or not it is respectful and appropriate to miss your child's communion, etc. is something only you and your DH can determine. But you can't, and shouldn't expect your MIL to have no feelings at all about having Christian grandchildren.

Still smacks of intolerance to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your MIL made a choice. She put her religion, and by extension, one side of her family before yours. Now YOU have a choice to make.

My choice would be to back up and build a world around your family, especially your children, that supports them and nurtures them, for who they are, because they are wonderful, amazing people, and not agents of a religion.

Your small-minded ILs' loss. I'm sorry, but sometimes as parents we need to choose the sources of love for our kids when a family tree doesn't provide it.

The same could be said of the PP. She is putting her religion above her MIL. Does she really not understand that a Jewish grandparent would not want to celebrate the baptism of her grandchild? In a million years, I would not celebrate my grandchild being baptized. The fact that the PP doesn't seem to get how she is hurting her MIL by baptizing her child speaks for itself.

So people should chose for their children whatever religion makes their MILs happy. Does that mean atheists should raise their child to be religious if it makes the MIL happy?

The point is that the PP is married to a Jew. Does she really think that his Jewish relatives want to celebrate that one of their relatives is Christian? I don't think it's unreasonable for this woman's MIL to feel the way she does. If the PP is going to baptize her child and then throw it in her MIL's face, she shouldn't be shocked and appalled at her MIL's reaction. Don't complain that someone is choosing religion over family when you are doing the exact same thing. The fact that her husband goes along with all of this is unbelievable.

Should PP have hidden that the child was baptized? Instead of a cryto-Jew, be a crypto-Christian?

Clearly PP's husband/the father of the child is content with raising a Christian child. He is choosing his family (wife and child) over his religion.

Does only blood family count?

Does the choice of religion only matter if the decision is to raise the child a Jew?

If a Christian MIL acted this way about her grandchild being raised Jewish, she would be flayed alive on DCUM as an anti-Semite!

NP here. I don't think PP was suggesting that we should all choose our children's religion based on our MIL's preferences. But it is equally wrong to suggest that a Jewish MIL isn't entitled to have her own feelings about having a Christian grandchild. Compromise is hard, and even decisions made for all of the right reasons aren't always going to make everyone happy. E.g., even though it is right for my DH and I to live here in DC, I know it makes my mom sad that we don't live closer to her. We're not about to move across the country to please my mom, but she still has a right to miss us and wish we lived closer (so long as she expresses it in a reasonable, respectful way, which she does.) I love and respect my mom and her feelings, so I do what I can to make it up to her by calling regularly, skyping with the kids, flying out as much as we can, etc.

Obviously religion is more complicated, but it's the same idea. Your MIL is your husband's MOM and your kids' grandma. I assume she loves and cares about you guys, and if so she is going to have feelings about decisions that you make. She doesn't have to agree with everything you do, she just has to treat you respectfully.

In addition to the general fact that grandparents are going to feel feelings about their children and grandchildren, it is a fact that Jews, and older ones in particular, often have VERY strong feelings about having Jewish children and grandchildren. First of all, intermarriage is prohibited by Jewish law. But also, Jews have been persecuted and almost wiped out so many times throughout ancient and recent history, and it's natural that over time that would result in people who feel threatened by assimilation. And it's a fact taht interfaith marriages (on the whole) lead to assimilation. This is not personal and you should not take it personally.

Of course, Jewish grandparents should find a way to express their feelings in respectful ways, and only to the extent appropriate and comfortable for everyone. Whether or not it is respectful and appropriate to miss your child's communion, etc. is something only you and your DH can determine. But you can't, and shouldn't expect your MIL to have no feelings at all about having Christian grandchildren.

+1000 - that is what I meant to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your MIL made a choice. She put her religion, and by extension, one side of her family before yours. Now YOU have a choice to make.

My choice would be to back up and build a world around your family, especially your children, that supports them and nurtures them, for who they are, because they are wonderful, amazing people, and not agents of a religion.

Your small-minded ILs' loss. I'm sorry, but sometimes as parents we need to choose the sources of love for our kids when a family tree doesn't provide it.

The same could be said of the PP. She is putting her religion above her MIL. Does she really not understand that a Jewish grandparent would not want to celebrate the baptism of her grandchild? In a million years, I would not celebrate my grandchild being baptized. The fact that the PP doesn't seem to get how she is hurting her MIL by baptizing her child speaks for itself.

So people should chose for their children whatever religion makes their MILs happy. Does that mean atheists should raise their child to be religious if it makes the MIL happy?

The point is that the PP is married to a Jew. Does she really think that his Jewish relatives want to celebrate that one of their relatives is Christian? I don't think it's unreasonable for this woman's MIL to feel the way she does. If the PP is going to baptize her child and then throw it in her MIL's face, she shouldn't be shocked and appalled at her MIL's reaction. Don't complain that someone is choosing religion over family when you are doing the exact same thing. The fact that her husband goes along with all of this is unbelievable.

Should PP have hidden that the child was baptized? Instead of a cryto-Jew, be a crypto-Christian?

Clearly PP's husband/the father of the child is content with raising a Christian child. He is choosing his family (wife and child) over his religion.

Does only blood family count?

Does the choice of religion only matter if the decision is to raise the child a Jew?

If a Christian MIL acted this way about her grandchild being raised Jewish, she would be flayed alive on DCUM as an anti-Semite!

NP here. I don't think PP was suggesting that we should all choose our children's religion based on our MIL's preferences. But it is equally wrong to suggest that a Jewish MIL isn't entitled to have her own feelings about having a Christian grandchild. Compromise is hard, and even decisions made for all of the right reasons aren't always going to make everyone happy. E.g., even though it is right for my DH and I to live here in DC, I know it makes my mom sad that we don't live closer to her. We're not about to move across the country to please my mom, but she still has a right to miss us and wish we lived closer (so long as she expresses it in a reasonable, respectful way, which she does.) I love and respect my mom and her feelings, so I do what I can to make it up to her by calling regularly, skyping with the kids, flying out as much as we can, etc.

Obviously religion is more complicated, but it's the same idea. Your MIL is your husband's MOM and your kids' grandma. I assume she loves and cares about you guys, and if so she is going to have feelings about decisions that you make. She doesn't have to agree with everything you do, she just has to treat you respectfully.

In addition to the general fact that grandparents are going to feel feelings about their children and grandchildren, it is a fact that Jews, and older ones in particular, often have VERY strong feelings about having Jewish children and grandchildren. First of all, intermarriage is prohibited by Jewish law. But also, Jews have been persecuted and almost wiped out so many times throughout ancient and recent history, and it's natural that over time that would result in people who feel threatened by assimilation. And it's a fact taht interfaith marriages (on the whole) lead to assimilation. This is not personal and you should not take it personally.

Of course, Jewish grandparents should find a way to express their feelings in respectful ways, and only to the extent appropriate and comfortable for everyone. Whether or not it is respectful and appropriate to miss your child's communion, etc. is something only you and your DH can determine. But you can't, and shouldn't expect your MIL to have no feelings at all about having Christian grandchildren.

Still smacks of intolerance to me.

You are correct. It is intolerance. Many Jews are intolerant of having Christian grandchildren. I'm sure there are many Catholics who are intolerant of having Jewish grandchildren and Protestants and Muslims, etc. It cuts both ways. Way to call out the Jews on this one.

[Anonymous]

Yes, but the PP expects us to understand the feelings of intolerant Jewish MILs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Presbyterian Church is currently protesting Israel. Very welcoming to interfaith.

Which branch? (not challenging - just want to know which branch - there are several).

[Anonymous]

I think a jewish MIL already knew baby would not be jewish when they started dating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You are correct. It is intolerance. Many Jews are intolerant of having Christian grandchildren. I'm sure there are many Catholics who are intolerant of having Jewish grandchildren and Protestants and Muslims, etc. It cuts both ways. Way to call out the Jews on this one.

Don't you dare try to paint my comment as an anti-Jewish one. Regardless of the religious context, this is a case of prejudice plain and simple. If the situation were one of a grandparent being intolerant of a mixed-race grandchild it would not be reasonable to request standing in the bigot's shoes and understand/sympathize with the historical context of the hateful sentiments. And one group disliking another in kind does not excuse the hatred at the base of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your MIL made a choice. She put her religion, and by extension, one side of her family before yours. Now YOU have a choice to make.

My choice would be to back up and build a world around your family, especially your children, that supports them and nurtures them, for who they are, because they are wonderful, amazing people, and not agents of a religion.

Your small-minded ILs' loss. I'm sorry, but sometimes as parents we need to choose the sources of love for our kids when a family tree doesn't provide it.

The same could be said of the PP. She is putting her religion above her MIL. Does she really not understand that a Jewish grandparent would not want to celebrate the baptism of her grandchild? In a million years, I would not celebrate my grandchild being baptized. The fact that the PP doesn't seem to get how she is hurting her MIL by baptizing her child speaks for itself.

So people should chose for their children whatever religion makes their MILs happy. Does that mean atheists should raise their child to be religious if it makes the MIL happy?

The point is that the PP is married to a Jew. Does she really think that his Jewish relatives want to celebrate that one of their relatives is Christian? I don't think it's unreasonable for this woman's MIL to feel the way she does. If the PP is going to baptize her child and then throw it in her MIL's face, she shouldn't be shocked and appalled at her MIL's reaction. Don't complain that someone is choosing religion over family when you are doing the exact same thing. The fact that her husband goes along with all of this is unbelievable.

You are a poor representation of an important religion and culture. Undoubtedly you will respond with your soft-gloved, fence-straddling approach when called out, but your true feelings are loud and clear. Prejudice is ugly.

Well... If Jews continue to intermarry and raise children who aren't Jewish, there eventually won't be an important religion and culture to represent.

[Anonymous]

Everyone. Shut up. You all sound intolerant. And the OP learned what she needed and has moved on.

[Anonymous]

Everyone. Shut up. You all sound intolerant. And the OP learned what she needed and has moved on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
NP here. I don't think PP was suggesting that we should all choose our children's religion based on our MIL's preferences. But it is equally wrong to suggest that a Jewish MIL isn't entitled to have her own feelings about having a Christian grandchild. Compromise is hard, and even decisions made for all of the right reasons aren't always going to make everyone happy. E.g., even though it is right for my DH and I to live here in DC, I know it makes my mom sad that we don't live closer to her. We're not about to move across the country to please my mom, but she still has a right to miss us and wish we lived closer (so long as she expresses it in a reasonable, respectful way, which she does.) I love and respect my mom and her feelings, so I do what I can to make it up to her by calling regularly, skyping with the kids, flying out as much as we can, etc.

Obviously religion is more complicated, but it's the same idea. Your MIL is your husband's MOM and your kids' grandma. I assume she loves and cares about you guys, and if so she is going to have feelings about decisions that you make. She doesn't have to agree with everything you do, she just has to treat you respectfully.

In addition to the general fact that grandparents are going to feel feelings about their children and grandchildren, it is a fact that Jews, and older ones in particular, often have VERY strong feelings about having Jewish children and grandchildren. First of all, intermarriage is prohibited by Jewish law. But also, Jews have been persecuted and almost wiped out so many times throughout ancient and recent history, and it's natural that over time that would result in people who feel threatened by assimilation. And it's a fact taht interfaith marriages (on the whole) lead to assimilation. This is not personal and you should not take it personally.

Of course, Jewish grandparents should find a way to express their feelings in respectful ways, and only to the extent appropriate and comfortable for everyone. Whether or not it is respectful and appropriate to miss your child's communion, etc. is something only you and your DH can determine. But you can't, and shouldn't expect your MIL to have no feelings at all about having Christian grandchildren.

New poster here. I'm tied up in interfaith stuff all day long, and here's what I have to say:

A Jewish MIL is absolutely entitled to want a Jewish grandchild, and to be sad when the child isn't. However, that bridge was crossed when she raised her son. If it was so important to her to have Jewish grandchildren, she should have raised her son with the ironclad belief that he should marry Jewish. She didn't. He married a non-Jew. That's a fact of life, and MIL does not get a seat at the committee that decides what religion her grandchildren will take. That decision is out of her hands.

There IS one decision that MIL still gets to make. That decision is whether or not she will have a relationship with the grandchildren. This relationship will be undoubtedly affected by whether or not MIL attends important events in her grandchildren's lives, and whether or not she embraces them regardless of religion. It's unrealistic to expect the relationship not to suffer when intolerance is present. What do you think will happen to the other person when they continually hear things like...I love you but I don't like your religion so I won't attend any of your religious rites...I love you but I disagree with your choice of major so I won't attend your graduation...I love you but I disagree with your choice of partner so I won't be at the wedding..and so on. You are entitled to do that. But you cannot expect the relationship not to suffer.

At the end of the day, MIL is only hurting herself by damaging her relationship with her grandchildren. She needs grandchildren more than they need her. They are looking into the future. She's looking at the decline of her life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Well... If Jews continue to intermarry and raise children who aren't Jewish, there eventually won't be an important religion and culture to represent.

The time to worry about this was when MIL raised a boy who was allowed to entertain the idea of marrying a non-Jew.