Jewish life in an interfaith marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[quote=AnonymousI do understand what it means. Do you think that onlyl Jews can possibly understand? Because that is what you are suggesting when you insist that I "may not understand."

Where you and I disagree is whether the unkind/hurtful response to the situation is justified. IMO it is not.

that some gentiles can understand, is not inconsistent with it being possible that you do not understand. I imagine some gentiles understand - as some whites understand the reactions of blacks, etc. But I think to do so takes a major effort of empathy, of standing in the other's place and seeing where they are coming from. I do not see that here, only anger and a sense of victimization.

Do you think your MIL does this out sadism - she just likes to make others suffer. Is that how she conducts all relationships in her life? If not, there is something else going on here.

And I did not say it was justified. But unjustified does not mean your reaction is justified - or if your reaction is justified (its certainly understandable from your POV) it does not mean I have to share it.

I don't. I see the tragedy. Maybe you see it. I feel it. I mght not do what your MIL did, but I can see her as a human being, whose emotions come from somewhere.

I'm sorry I cannot provide the validation you seek here. Others here have, perhaps you should be satisfied with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[quote=AnonymousI do understand what it means. Do you think that onlyl Jews can possibly understand? Because that is what you are suggesting when you insist that I "may not understand."

Where you and I disagree is whether the unkind/hurtful response to the situation is justified. IMO it is not.

that some gentiles can understand, is not inconsistent with it being possible that you do not understand. I imagine some gentiles understand - as some whites understand the reactions of blacks, etc. But I think to do so takes a major effort of empathy, of standing in the other's place and seeing where they are coming from. I do not see that here, only anger and a sense of victimization.

Do you think your MIL does this out sadism - she just likes to make others suffer. Is that how she conducts all relationships in her life? If not, there is something else going on here.

And I did not say it was justified. But unjustified does not mean your reaction is justified - or if your reaction is justified (its certainly understandable from your POV) it does not mean I have to share it.

I don't. I see the tragedy. Maybe you see it. I feel it. I mght not do what your MIL did, but I can see her as a human being, whose emotions come from somewhere.

I'm sorry I cannot provide the validation you seek here. Others here have, perhaps you should be satisfied with that.

Well said, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

AnonymousTheir non-attendance has everything to do with the kids being Christian and not Jewish - I know this because MIL has told DH so. .[/quote wrote:

You did not mention that earlier, but said, IIRC, that your situation was just like another poster - a poster who said they did NOT know what was going on, which is why I speculated. Seems like a failure of communication here. Im not saying that is your problem with your ML.

There are jewish people out there would be okay with their kids marrying a (unconverted) non-Jew, as long as their grand kids are Jewish. That used to be considered a pretty tolerant position. We have come quite a way when we are expected to be happy that our grandchildren are christians, and to celebrate the fact. I think you may not understand what having jewish descendants means to people.

Perhaps you would have been happier had your MIL just said kaddish for your DH when he married you.

I do understand what it means. Do you think that onlyl Jews can possibly understand? Because that is what you are suggesting when you insist that I "may not understand."

Where you and I disagree is whether the unkind/hurtful response to the situation is justified. IMO it is not.

Your comment about kaddish is just rude. Do you think the only acceptable responses by a Jewish grandparent to a situation like ours is (a) hurtful and sometimes hostile refusal to participate; or (b) saying kaddish?

There are clearly many other ways. But I think maybe if someone like the PPs MIL is so pained by what happened, a complete cutoff old style might be the best, for all. Reminding PP that that WAS the old way might also help her see how traumatic this has been, and how much her MIL may have compromised already (I dont know here MIL - maybe her MIL isn't that old fashioned and this comes from left field, but I kinda doubt that)

PP has lots of anger at her MIL, is inviting strangers to judge her MIL, and people are calling her MIL rude, inconsiderate, etc. Someone who is NOT in a position to respond.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

This is, unfortunately, is the reality of what happens many times when Jews intermarry, be it right or wrong. It sucks for EVERYONE involved.

That says a lot. And when you say "right or wrong" I can't see how that is even a question.

[Anonymous]

OP, your MIL made a choice. She put her religion, and by extension, one side of her family before yours. Now YOU have a choice to make.

My choice would be to back up and build a world around your family, especially your children, that supports them and nurtures them, for who they are, because they are wonderful, amazing people, and not agents of a religion.

Your small-minded ILs' loss. I'm sorry, but sometimes as parents we need to choose the sources of love for our kids when a family tree doesn't provide it.

[Anonymous]

^ just realized I was addressing the pp whose family didn't attend her DD's religious ceremonies, not OP. sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, your MIL made a choice. She put her religion, and by extension, one side of her family before yours. Now YOU have a choice to make.

My choice would be to back up and build a world around your family, especially your children, that supports them and nurtures them, for who they are, because they are wonderful, amazing people, and not agents of a religion.

Your small-minded ILs' loss. I'm sorry, but sometimes as parents we need to choose the sources of love for our kids when a family tree doesn't provide it.

The same could be said of the PP. She is putting her religion above her MIL. Does she really not understand that a Jewish grandparent would not want to celebrate the baptism of her grandchild? In a million years, I would not celebrate my grandchild being baptized. The fact that the PP doesn't seem to get how she is hurting her MIL by baptizing her child speaks for itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your MIL made a choice. She put her religion, and by extension, one side of her family before yours. Now YOU have a choice to make.

My choice would be to back up and build a world around your family, especially your children, that supports them and nurtures them, for who they are, because they are wonderful, amazing people, and not agents of a religion.

Your small-minded ILs' loss. I'm sorry, but sometimes as parents we need to choose the sources of love for our kids when a family tree doesn't provide it.

The same could be said of the PP. She is putting her religion above her MIL. Does she really not understand that a Jewish grandparent would not want to celebrate the baptism of her grandchild? In a million years, I would not celebrate my grandchild being baptized. The fact that the PP doesn't seem to get how she is hurting her MIL by baptizing her child speaks for itself.

So people should chose for their children whatever religion makes their MILs happy. Does that mean atheists should raise their child to be religious if it makes the MIL happy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your MIL made a choice. She put her religion, and by extension, one side of her family before yours. Now YOU have a choice to make.

My choice would be to back up and build a world around your family, especially your children, that supports them and nurtures them, for who they are, because they are wonderful, amazing people, and not agents of a religion.

Your small-minded ILs' loss. I'm sorry, but sometimes as parents we need to choose the sources of love for our kids when a family tree doesn't provide it.

The same could be said of the PP. She is putting her religion above her MIL. Does she really not understand that a Jewish grandparent would not want to celebrate the baptism of her grandchild? In a million years, I would not celebrate my grandchild being baptized. The fact that the PP doesn't seem to get how she is hurting her MIL by baptizing her child speaks for itself.

So people should chose for their children whatever religion makes their MILs happy. Does that mean atheists should raise their child to be religious if it makes the MIL happy?

Mothers in law first!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your MIL made a choice. She put her religion, and by extension, one side of her family before yours. Now YOU have a choice to make.

My choice would be to back up and build a world around your family, especially your children, that supports them and nurtures them, for who they are, because they are wonderful, amazing people, and not agents of a religion.

Your small-minded ILs' loss. I'm sorry, but sometimes as parents we need to choose the sources of love for our kids when a family tree doesn't provide it.

The same could be said of the PP. She is putting her religion above her MIL. Does she really not understand that a Jewish grandparent would not want to celebrate the baptism of her grandchild? In a million years, I would not celebrate my grandchild being baptized. The fact that the PP doesn't seem to get how she is hurting her MIL by baptizing her child speaks for itself.

So we should all base our life decisions for our children based on our MILs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your MIL made a choice. She put her religion, and by extension, one side of her family before yours. Now YOU have a choice to make.

My choice would be to back up and build a world around your family, especially your children, that supports them and nurtures them, for who they are, because they are wonderful, amazing people, and not agents of a religion.

Your small-minded ILs' loss. I'm sorry, but sometimes as parents we need to choose the sources of love for our kids when a family tree doesn't provide it.

The same could be said of the PP. She is putting her religion above her MIL. Does she really not understand that a Jewish grandparent would not want to celebrate the baptism of her grandchild? In a million years, I would not celebrate my grandchild being baptized. The fact that the PP doesn't seem to get how she is hurting her MIL by baptizing her child speaks for itself.

So we should all base our life decisions for our children based on our MILs?

on our MIL's religion, apparently

[Anonymous]

What if your MIL's belongs to one those white supremacist "churches"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It has been very difficult to raise culturally Jewish but religiously Christian children amidst Jewish cousins. The cousins don't see Christianity as equal or even valid. They act as though Christian beliefs and practices are a big joke. My younger DD has celebrated with all of her cousins when they reached b'nai mitzvah age, but not a single one attended her First Communion. She was very hurt.

I'd be hurt, too, but would take this up with the parents. What you hear from the kids is coming straight from them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am Jewish and have never heard of this prohibition on going into churches. Is that in the Torah?? I doubt it.

Perhaps it is the kernel of truth and sadness behind Graucho's quip about not wanting to join any club that would have him as a member?

It is a practice among many of the orthodox. The other denominations don't care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your MIL made a choice. She put her religion, and by extension, one side of her family before yours. Now YOU have a choice to make.

My choice would be to back up and build a world around your family, especially your children, that supports them and nurtures them, for who they are, because they are wonderful, amazing people, and not agents of a religion.

Your small-minded ILs' loss. I'm sorry, but sometimes as parents we need to choose the sources of love for our kids when a family tree doesn't provide it.

The same could be said of the PP. She is putting her religion above her MIL. Does she really not understand that a Jewish grandparent would not want to celebrate the baptism of her grandchild? In a million years, I would not celebrate my grandchild being baptized. The fact that the PP doesn't seem to get how she is hurting her MIL by baptizing her child speaks for itself.

So people should chose for their children whatever religion makes their MILs happy. Does that mean atheists should raise their child to be religious if it makes the MIL happy?

The point is that the PP is married to a Jew. Does she really think that his Jewish relatives want to celebrate that one of their relatives is Christian? I don't think it's unreasonable for this woman's MIL to feel the way she does. If the PP is going to baptize her child and then throw it in her MIL's face, she shouldn't be shocked and appalled at her MIL's reaction. Don't complain that someone is choosing religion over family when you are doing the exact same thing. The fact that her husband goes along with all of this is unbelievable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your MIL made a choice. She put her religion, and by extension, one side of her family before yours. Now YOU have a choice to make.

My choice would be to back up and build a world around your family, especially your children, that supports them and nurtures them, for who they are, because they are wonderful, amazing people, and not agents of a religion.

Your small-minded ILs' loss. I'm sorry, but sometimes as parents we need to choose the sources of love for our kids when a family tree doesn't provide it.

The same could be said of the PP. She is putting her religion above her MIL. Does she really not understand that a Jewish grandparent would not want to celebrate the baptism of her grandchild? In a million years, I would not celebrate my grandchild being baptized. The fact that the PP doesn't seem to get how she is hurting her MIL by baptizing her child speaks for itself.

So people should chose for their children whatever religion makes their MILs happy. Does that mean atheists should raise their child to be religious if it makes the MIL happy?

The point is that the PP is married to a Jew. Does she really think that his Jewish relatives want to celebrate that one of their relatives is Christian? I don't think it's unreasonable for this woman's MIL to feel the way she does. If the PP is going to baptize her child and then throw it in her MIL's face, she shouldn't be shocked and appalled at her MIL's reaction. Don't complain that someone is choosing religion over family when you are doing the exact same thing. The fact that her husband goes along with all of this is unbelievable.

Should PP have hidden that the child was baptized? Instead of a cryto-Jew, be a crypto-Christian?

Clearly PP's husband/the father of the child is content with raising a Christian child. He is choosing his family (wife and child) over his religion.

Does only blood family count?

Does the choice of religion only matter if the decision is to raise the child a Jew?

If a Christian MIL acted this way about her grandchild being raised Jewish, she would be flayed alive on DCUM as an anti-Semite!