Jewish life in an interfaith marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
NP here. I don't think PP was suggesting that we should all choose our children's religion based on our MIL's preferences. But it is equally wrong to suggest that a Jewish MIL isn't entitled to have her own feelings about having a Christian grandchild. Compromise is hard, and even decisions made for all of the right reasons aren't always going to make everyone happy. E.g., even though it is right for my DH and I to live here in DC, I know it makes my mom sad that we don't live closer to her. We're not about to move across the country to please my mom, but she still has a right to miss us and wish we lived closer (so long as she expresses it in a reasonable, respectful way, which she does.) I love and respect my mom and her feelings, so I do what I can to make it up to her by calling regularly, skyping with the kids, flying out as much as we can, etc.

Obviously religion is more complicated, but it's the same idea. Your MIL is your husband's MOM and your kids' grandma. I assume she loves and cares about you guys, and if so she is going to have feelings about decisions that you make. She doesn't have to agree with everything you do, she just has to treat you respectfully.

In addition to the general fact that grandparents are going to feel feelings about their children and grandchildren, it is a fact that Jews, and older ones in particular, often have VERY strong feelings about having Jewish children and grandchildren. First of all, intermarriage is prohibited by Jewish law. But also, Jews have been persecuted and almost wiped out so many times throughout ancient and recent history, and it's natural that over time that would result in people who feel threatened by assimilation. And it's a fact taht interfaith marriages (on the whole) lead to assimilation. This is not personal and you should not take it personally.

Of course, Jewish grandparents should find a way to express their feelings in respectful ways, and only to the extent appropriate and comfortable for everyone. Whether or not it is respectful and appropriate to miss your child's communion, etc. is something only you and your DH can determine. But you can't, and shouldn't expect your MIL to have no feelings at all about having Christian grandchildren.

New poster here. I'm tied up in interfaith stuff all day long, and here's what I have to say:

A Jewish MIL is absolutely entitled to want a Jewish grandchild, and to be sad when the child isn't. However, that bridge was crossed when she raised her son. If it was so important to her to have Jewish grandchildren, she should have raised her son with the ironclad belief that he should marry Jewish. She didn't. He married a non-Jew. That's a fact of life, and MIL does not get a seat at the committee that decides what religion her grandchildren will take. That decision is out of her hands.

There IS one decision that MIL still gets to make. That decision is whether or not she will have a relationship with the grandchildren. This relationship will be undoubtedly affected by whether or not MIL attends important events in her grandchildren's lives, and whether or not she embraces them regardless of religion. It's unrealistic to expect the relationship not to suffer when intolerance is present. What do you think will happen to the other person when they continually hear things like...I love you but I don't like your religion so I won't attend any of your religious rites...I love you but I disagree with your choice of major so I won't attend your graduation...I love you but I disagree with your choice of partner so I won't be at the wedding..and so on. You are entitled to do that. But you cannot expect the relationship not to suffer.

At the end of the day, MIL is only hurting herself by damaging her relationship with her grandchildren. She needs grandchildren more than they need her. They are looking into the future. She's looking at the decline of her life.

Very well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your MIL made a choice. She put her religion, and by extension, one side of her family before yours. Now YOU have a choice to make.

My choice would be to back up and build a world around your family, especially your children, that supports them and nurtures them, for who they are, because they are wonderful, amazing people, and not agents of a religion.

Your small-minded ILs' loss. I'm sorry, but sometimes as parents we need to choose the sources of love for our kids when a family tree doesn't provide it.

The same could be said of the PP. She is putting her religion above her MIL. Does she really not understand that a Jewish grandparent would not want to celebrate the baptism of her grandchild? In a million years, I would not celebrate my grandchild being baptized. The fact that the PP doesn't seem to get how she is hurting her MIL by baptizing her child speaks for itself.

Of course she's putting her religion above her MIL. MIL-DIL is not the type of relationship that one expects to outweigh personal religion. I mean, people convert for spouses, but no one converts for in-laws so it's not practical to expect her to put her religion below MIL.

MIL doesn't get a seat at the table when the family chooses what religion their children will follow. These choices aren't made with pleasing MIL/hurting MIL in mind. It is simply not a consideration. If there is anyone who needs to think about hurting the grandmother, it is the husband, who is her son. The grandmother paved the road to this pain by raising a son who sees marrying outside the faith as a possibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your MIL made a choice. She put her religion, and by extension, one side of her family before yours. Now YOU have a choice to make.

My choice would be to back up and build a world around your family, especially your children, that supports them and nurtures them, for who they are, because they are wonderful, amazing people, and not agents of a religion.

Your small-minded ILs' loss. I'm sorry, but sometimes as parents we need to choose the sources of love for our kids when a family tree doesn't provide it.

The same could be said of the PP. She is putting her religion above her MIL. Does she really not understand that a Jewish grandparent would not want to celebrate the baptism of her grandchild? In a million years, I would not celebrate my grandchild being baptized. The fact that the PP doesn't seem to get how she is hurting her MIL by baptizing her child speaks for itself.

Of course she's putting her religion above her MIL. MIL-DIL is not the type of relationship that one expects to outweigh personal religion. I mean, people convert for spouses, but no one converts for in-laws so it's not practical to expect her to put her religion below MIL.

MIL doesn't get a seat at the table when the family chooses what religion their children will follow. These choices aren't made with pleasing MIL/hurting MIL in mind. It is simply not a consideration. If there is anyone who needs to think about hurting the grandmother, it is the husband, who is her son. The grandmother paved the road to this pain by raising a son who sees marrying outside the faith as a possibility.

So now the Jewish MIL bears responsibility for having Christian grandchildren? That's a step too far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
So now the Jewish MIL bears responsibility for having Christian grandchildren? That's a step too far.

If you think parents have no responsibility at all for how their children turn out, then no, she doesn't.

If she was dead-set on Jewish grandchildren, she should have raised her son to marry a Jew. We don't know if that was the case. If marrying a gentile was a possibility in this family, then she bears part of the responsibility for her sadness in not having Jewish grandchildren.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So now the Jewish MIL bears responsibility for having Christian grandchildren? That's a step too far.

If you think parents have no responsibility at all for how their children turn out, then no, she doesn't.

If she was dead-set on Jewish grandchildren, she should have raised her son to marry a Jew. We don't know if that was the case. If marrying a gentile was a possibility in this family, then she bears part of the responsibility for her sadness in not having Jewish grandchildren.

She should have raised a robot is what you're saying - someone who would marry who mama said.

Mothers don't have that kind of control Even Jewish mothers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So now the Jewish MIL bears responsibility for having Christian grandchildren? That's a step too far.

If you think parents have no responsibility at all for how their children turn out, then no, she doesn't.

If she was dead-set on Jewish grandchildren, she should have raised her son to marry a Jew. We don't know if that was the case. If marrying a gentile was a possibility in this family, then she bears part of the responsibility for her sadness in not having Jewish grandchildren.

She should have raised a robot is what you're saying - someone who would marry who mama said.

Mothers don't have that kind of control Even Jewish mothers.

You say this yet clearly some ethnic and religious groups in the U.S. have much lower intermarriage rates than others. So somewhere, mothers and families DO have that kind of control in setting expectations for their children. Perhaps you should look at minorities in the U.S. with the lower intermarriage rates and ask yourself how they are doing it while living in a society that allows all kinds of choices for kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So now the Jewish MIL bears responsibility for having Christian grandchildren? That's a step too far.

If you think parents have no responsibility at all for how their children turn out, then no, she doesn't.

If she was dead-set on Jewish grandchildren, she should have raised her son to marry a Jew. We don't know if that was the case. If marrying a gentile was a possibility in this family, then she bears part of the responsibility for her sadness in not having Jewish grandchildren.

She should have raised a robot is what you're saying - someone who would marry who mama said.

Mothers don't have that kind of control Even Jewish mothers.

You say this yet clearly some ethnic and religious groups in the U.S. have much lower intermarriage rates than others. So somewhere, mothers and families DO have that kind of control in setting expectations for their children. Perhaps you should look at minorities in the U.S. with the lower intermarriage rates and ask yourself how they are doing it while living in a society that allows all kinds of choices for kids.

Frequently, they do it by telling the kids they will disown them if they marry out. I've seen this happen with both religious and ethnic groups. In these instances the kids (my friends) have gone behind their parents' backs and hidden their relationships. Ultimately, when it comes time for marriage they tend to cave but are resentful of their parents' coercive tactics. It's not healthy. My kids are a different faith from my family and we've not had any problems because my parents have respected my right to choose for myself and my children. They don't see it as a loss but just another route to God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Frequently, they do it by telling the kids they will disown them if they marry out. I've seen this happen with both religious and ethnic groups. In these instances the kids (my friends) have gone behind their parents' backs and hidden their relationships. Ultimately, when it comes time for marriage they tend to cave but are resentful of their parents' coercive tactics. It's not healthy. My kids are a different faith from my family and we've not had any problems because my parents have respected my right to choose for myself and my children. They don't see it as a loss but just another route to God.

The reason you haven't had any problems is that your parents and you, by extension, are OK with the idea of different religions in your family. The MIL in the example is heartbroken that her kids aren't Jewish. So if having Jewish grandchildren (which requires a Jewish DIL) was so important to the woman, all I'm saying is that she should have raised her kids with a firm expectation that they marry within the religion with a clear emphasis on benefits of Jewish family life. The road to this goal begins when her son is still a boy. All I'm saying is that if that hasn't happened, the MIL really have no cause to be angry or sad that her grandchildren aren't Jewish. She has to take a hard look at what she did to raise her son in a way that he considers it acceptable to marry outside of the religion. This has nothing to do with raising robots and everything to do with raising your children in a way that's infused with benefits of religion cohesion within the family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:this is from an Orthodox web site, on entering a church


http://www.torah.org/advanced/weekly-halacha/5772/bo.html

this conservative answer allows it

http://www.responsafortoday.com/engsums/6_13.htm

Both note that traditional sources are more lenient on entering a mosque than entering a church

Wow. I learn something new on DCUM every time I go on. This explains why some Orthodox Jews did not attend my wedding and a recent funeral but came to the after event. However, other Orthodox Jews even made the effort to walk a long way (Shabbat, not allowed to drive or be driven) to my very High Episcopal wedding and certainly entered the church and then walked miles to attend the reception even though I provided transportation. Do Orthodox and Conservative Jews make the decision whether or not to enter a Christian Church on a case-by-case situation, or on their own interpretation of the Torah, or what was written above?