If you are an atheist

[Anonymous]

6:57 here. I am NOT 6:51, just want to make that clear!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:6:57 here. I am NOT 6:51, just want to make that clear!

651 here. What's your fucking point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6:57 here. I am NOT 6:51, just want to make that clear!

651 here. What's your fucking point?

Trying to be tolerant here. Unlike you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Normally, when I meet an atheist, the first thing I like to do is to congratulate him and say, " My special congratulations to you", because most of the people who believe in God are doing blind belief - he is a Christian, because his father is a Christian; he is a Hindu, because his father is a Hindu; the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers. An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him.

When a Muslim addresses this topic, we have to find our understanding from Divine Revelation and not human speculation. Because human ....

I think some of this may be a little unfair. As part of my continuing effort to question my own belief, I have read the Qu'ran cover to cover. One of the issues I had is that some of the more difficult passages must be accepted with question precisely because they are seen as infallible revelations. For this and other reasons I choose to stay in my patents' faith, but this has not been without inquiry on my part.

1. Leaving children of Muslim parents out of your "blind faith" equation involving Christians and Hindus.... No words.
2. I'm sure several of us could quote "divine revelation" in the Koran about what to do to polytheists like the Hindus. You really don't want to go there, you really don't.

[Anonymous]

NP here.
Death = the end. I don't believe the spirit lives on. We're just gone, in the permanent sense.

I sometimes wish I could believe that I'd see my loved ones after I die. It would make their deaths a bit easier, I think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the one who was talking about science. Francis Bacon, the famous philosopher, has rightly said that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God. Scientists today are eliminating models of God, but they are not eliminating God.

I am a scientist. I believe that there is something sublime, and perhaps even divine in the natural world, the way systems work, the fragility of life. I am truly in awe. But I don't feel like I'm in awe of God, but of Nature as it does appear miraculous. I don't however, believe in any formalized religion- no Jesus, no saints, no mystics, just nature, amazing, beautiful, miraculous, and yes, divine.

And, as is nature's way, when I die, my body will decompose, provide nutrients to the earth and the living creatures- grass, soil, worms. The worm may go on to feed a bird, who goes on to feed a fox, which gives birth to a kit, etc etc. It's all part of a system.

I don't begrudge anybody their beliefs, but I find plenty of people who begrudge me for mine, and for raising non-religious children.

If you are a scientist, then how do you explain the scientific miracles in the Quran, that was revealed centuries before those were known to men?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the purpose of God?

Why would God create people only if they acknowledge her/his existence and follow her/his teachings? Is that self-serving - to create some creatures only to pass judgment on them if they don't put you first?

Why are most religions beneficial to males and place females in the role of being subservient to males? What is the purpose of this?

Normally, when I meet an atheist, the first thing I like to do is to congratulate him and say, " My special congratulations to you", because most of the people who believe in God are doing blind belief - he is a Christian, because his father is a Christian; he is a Hindu, because his father is a Hindu; the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers. An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him.

When a Muslim addresses this topic, we have to find our understanding from Divine Revelation and not human speculation. Because human speculation has no bounds; we can imagine all kinds of things and if any of you has studied philosophy of religion, you will know how many opinions there are about the creation of man and existence. Because of the variety of philosophies which are out there, no one can say this one is correct or that one is incorrect, because there is no guidance behind it. No Divine Revelation. It is only from Divine Revelation that we can determine the reality of our creation, because it is Allah who has created us and so He knows the purpose of our creation. We can hardly understand it ourselves, much less trying to understand the essence of things. So it is for Allah to inform us through the revelation in the Qur'an and the sunnah (the Prophetic traditions) which were brought to us by His Last Messenger and the Messengers before him.

Now if we are to look initially into revelation, to determine why was man created, there is a deeper question that we should be asking before that: "Why did God create?" This before we even get to man because man is not the greatest act of creation. Allah says:

"The creation of the Heavens and the Earth is indeed greater then the creation of mankind; yet, most of mankind know not."
[Al-Qur'an 40:57]
Man is not the greatest act of creation, this universe is far more complex and far more magnificent than man. So the issue of creation should then go to, "Why did God create?", as opposed to simply, "Why create man?"

Fundamentally, we can say that the creation is the natural consequence of the attribute of creator. Allah is the creator. That is one of his attributes. That is what he has informed us. That being his attribute, the creator, the natural consequence or the product of this attribute is his creation.

A painter, if we are to draw a similitude on a lower level, who tells you that he is a painter, if you ask him where are his paintings and he replies I don't have any. What kind of painter is this? The concept of a painter who doesn't paint, there is some thing not quite gelling together here, of course Allah is beyond this. But if we are to understand on the simplest level, the two go together. The perfection of a painter lies in his paintings. His quality and his ability to paint, is manifest in his paintings. And Allah, beyond all that, as creator, this quality of creation is manifest in the creation itself. Allah didn't create out of a need. No, the fact that he is the creator, is manifest in the creation.

Furthermore, consider the act of creation, this act, with regards to Allah is unique. Though we use the term i.e. So and so created a table etc, actually it is in a limited sense. Human beings don't really create, they manipulate, because they can only "create" what already exists. When we make a chair or a table, we didn't create the wood, we had to take it from a tree, we didn't create the metal, which makes the screws etc, we had to melt down rocks and take the metal out. So we are not creating from nothing. We are manipulating things which Allah has already created in to different shapes and forms which are useful to us. We call it "creation" but the real act of creation, is creation from nothing, and this is unique to Allah alone.

Therefore when we look for the purpose of worship, we have to look into man. Allah created us to worship him, because we need to worship him. It is something he has given us as a means of benefiting ourselves. We are the ones who benefit from it. Worship has been established, fundamentally for the growth, the spiritual growth of man. This growth takes place through the remembrance of Allah. When you look at all the different aspects of worship, you will see the core of it is focused on the remembrance of Allah.

"Establish the prayer for My remembrance."


Worship is there for us to remember Allah. And it is in the remembrance of Allah, that we achieve that consciousness. Because it is when we forget Allah, that Shaytan causes us to disobey Allah and fall into sin. So it is only in His remembrance that we can attain salvation. All of the various acts of worship from saying "Bismillah" when we eat is to help us remember Allah in order to grow spiritually.

Allah has said that he has created us to test us, to see which of us is best in deeds. He is not testing us to know, in the sense that he doesn't already know, but this world is a test for us in order again that we can grow spiritually.

We cannot develop this spiritual characteristic of generosity unless some of us have more then others and then we are required to give of the wealth we have. When we give, we grow. Similarly, if we were not in a position where others had more then us then we wouldn't have the ability to develop the higher spiritual quality of contentment, patience, satisfaction in what Allah has given us.

So it is all there in order to bring out the higher spiritual qualities, which enable us to attain the state, which makes us suitable and eligible to return to paradise. The paradise from which we were created, we were created in paradise and for paradise. Through our choices we have left, in this life, a field of testing, where we can grow to a state where we deserve paradise.

I'm an atheist who was raised Muslim. PP, how do you explain 4:34?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Normally, when I meet an atheist, the first thing I like to do is to congratulate him and say, " My special congratulations to you", because most of the people who believe in God are doing blind belief - he is a Christian, because his father is a Christian; he is a Hindu, because his father is a Hindu; the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers. An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him.

When a Muslim addresses this topic, we have to find our understanding from Divine Revelation and not human speculation. Because human ....

I think some of this may be a little unfair. As part of my continuing effort to question my own belief, I have read the Qu'ran cover to cover. One of the issues I had is that some of the more difficult passages must be accepted with question precisely because they are seen as infallible revelations. For this and other reasons I choose to stay in my patents' faith, but this has not been without inquiry on my part.

That's why i said "Most" not "All". I think we can all agree that most people just follow a religion because they are born into it. Most people do not research religions when they grow up and choose one based on that research, they just follow their family values and faith...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Normally, when I meet an atheist, the first thing I like to do is to congratulate him and say, " My special congratulations to you", because most of the people who believe in God are doing blind belief - he is a Christian, because his father is a Christian; he is a Hindu, because his father is a Hindu; the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers. An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him.

When a Muslim addresses this topic, we have to find our understanding from Divine Revelation and not human speculation. Because human ....

I think some of this may be a little unfair. As part of my continuing effort to question my own belief, I have read the Qu'ran cover to cover. One of the issues I had is that some of the more difficult passages must be accepted with question precisely because they are seen as infallible revelations. For this and other reasons I choose to stay in my patents' faith, but this has not been without inquiry on my part.

1. Leaving children of Muslim parents out of your "blind faith" equation involving Christians and Hindus.... No words.
2. I'm sure several of us could quote "divine revelation" in the Koran about what to do to polytheists like the Hindus. You really don't want to go there, you really don't.

1- Children of Muslim Parents are also part of that equation, the same thing applies to them.
2- Go ahead and quote whatever you want, I really do not care just like anyone can quote the bible and any other religious book for that matter about what they would do to non-believers. So again, your point it? And why are you so angry? Relax, take a deep breath, this is not a fight....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the purpose of God?

Why would God create people only if they acknowledge her/his existence and follow her/his teachings? Is that self-serving - to create some creatures only to pass judgment on them if they don't put you first?

Why are most religions beneficial to males and place females in the role of being subservient to males? What is the purpose of this?

Normally, when I meet an atheist, the first thing I like to do is to congratulate him and say, " My special congratulations to you", because most of the people who believe in God are doing blind belief - he is a Christian, because his father is a Christian; he is a Hindu, because his father is a Hindu; the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers. An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him.

When a Muslim addresses this topic, we have to find our understanding from Divine Revelation and not human speculation. Because human speculation has no bounds; we can imagine all kinds of things and if any of you has studied philosophy of religion, you will know how many opinions there are about the creation of man and existence. Because of the variety of philosophies which are out there, no one can say this one is correct or that one is incorrect, because there is no guidance behind it. No Divine Revelation. It is only from Divine Revelation that we can determine the reality of our creation, because it is Allah who has created us and so He knows the purpose of our creation. We can hardly understand it ourselves, much less trying to understand the essence of things. So it is for Allah to inform us through the revelation in the Qur'an and the sunnah (the Prophetic traditions) which were brought to us by His Last Messenger and the Messengers before him.

Now if we are to look initially into revelation, to determine why was man created, there is a deeper question that we should be asking before that: "Why did God create?" This before we even get to man because man is not the greatest act of creation. Allah says:

"The creation of the Heavens and the Earth is indeed greater then the creation of mankind; yet, most of mankind know not."
[Al-Qur'an 40:57]
Man is not the greatest act of creation, this universe is far more complex and far more magnificent than man. So the issue of creation should then go to, "Why did God create?", as opposed to simply, "Why create man?"

Fundamentally, we can say that the creation is the natural consequence of the attribute of creator. Allah is the creator. That is one of his attributes. That is what he has informed us. That being his attribute, the creator, the natural consequence or the product of this attribute is his creation.

A painter, if we are to draw a similitude on a lower level, who tells you that he is a painter, if you ask him where are his paintings and he replies I don't have any. What kind of painter is this? The concept of a painter who doesn't paint, there is some thing not quite gelling together here, of course Allah is beyond this. But if we are to understand on the simplest level, the two go together. The perfection of a painter lies in his paintings. His quality and his ability to paint, is manifest in his paintings. And Allah, beyond all that, as creator, this quality of creation is manifest in the creation itself. Allah didn't create out of a need. No, the fact that he is the creator, is manifest in the creation.

Furthermore, consider the act of creation, this act, with regards to Allah is unique. Though we use the term i.e. So and so created a table etc, actually it is in a limited sense. Human beings don't really create, they manipulate, because they can only "create" what already exists. When we make a chair or a table, we didn't create the wood, we had to take it from a tree, we didn't create the metal, which makes the screws etc, we had to melt down rocks and take the metal out. So we are not creating from nothing. We are manipulating things which Allah has already created in to different shapes and forms which are useful to us. We call it "creation" but the real act of creation, is creation from nothing, and this is unique to Allah alone.

Therefore when we look for the purpose of worship, we have to look into man. Allah created us to worship him, because we need to worship him. It is something he has given us as a means of benefiting ourselves. We are the ones who benefit from it. Worship has been established, fundamentally for the growth, the spiritual growth of man. This growth takes place through the remembrance of Allah. When you look at all the different aspects of worship, you will see the core of it is focused on the remembrance of Allah.

"Establish the prayer for My remembrance."


Worship is there for us to remember Allah. And it is in the remembrance of Allah, that we achieve that consciousness. Because it is when we forget Allah, that Shaytan causes us to disobey Allah and fall into sin. So it is only in His remembrance that we can attain salvation. All of the various acts of worship from saying "Bismillah" when we eat is to help us remember Allah in order to grow spiritually.

Allah has said that he has created us to test us, to see which of us is best in deeds. He is not testing us to know, in the sense that he doesn't already know, but this world is a test for us in order again that we can grow spiritually.

We cannot develop this spiritual characteristic of generosity unless some of us have more then others and then we are required to give of the wealth we have. When we give, we grow. Similarly, if we were not in a position where others had more then us then we wouldn't have the ability to develop the higher spiritual quality of contentment, patience, satisfaction in what Allah has given us.

So it is all there in order to bring out the higher spiritual qualities, which enable us to attain the state, which makes us suitable and eligible to return to paradise. The paradise from which we were created, we were created in paradise and for paradise. Through our choices we have left, in this life, a field of testing, where we can grow to a state where we deserve paradise.

I'm an atheist who was raised Muslim. PP, how do you explain 4:34?

What do you mean by 4:34?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the one who was talking about science. Francis Bacon, the famous philosopher, has rightly said that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God. Scientists today are eliminating models of God, but they are not eliminating God.

I am a scientist. I believe that there is something sublime, and perhaps even divine in the natural world, the way systems work, the fragility of life. I am truly in awe. But I don't feel like I'm in awe of God, but of Nature as it does appear miraculous. I don't however, believe in any formalized religion- no Jesus, no saints, no mystics, just nature, amazing, beautiful, miraculous, and yes, divine.

And, as is nature's way, when I die, my body will decompose, provide nutrients to the earth and the living creatures- grass, soil, worms. The worm may go on to feed a bird, who goes on to feed a fox, which gives birth to a kit, etc etc. It's all part of a system.

I don't begrudge anybody their beliefs, but I find plenty of people who begrudge me for mine, and for raising non-religious children.

If you are a scientist, then how do you explain the scientific miracles in the Quran, that was revealed centuries before those were known to men?

Several verses in the Koran say the earth is flat, with the sky set like a dome above. See 88:20 re flatness, for example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the one who was talking about science. Francis Bacon, the famous philosopher, has rightly said that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God. Scientists today are eliminating models of God, but they are not eliminating God.

I am a scientist. I believe that there is something sublime, and perhaps even divine in the natural world, the way systems work, the fragility of life. I am truly in awe. But I don't feel like I'm in awe of God, but of Nature as it does appear miraculous. I don't however, believe in any formalized religion- no Jesus, no saints, no mystics, just nature, amazing, beautiful, miraculous, and yes, divine.

And, as is nature's way, when I die, my body will decompose, provide nutrients to the earth and the living creatures- grass, soil, worms. The worm may go on to feed a bird, who goes on to feed a fox, which gives birth to a kit, etc etc. It's all part of a system.

I don't begrudge anybody their beliefs, but I find plenty of people who begrudge me for mine, and for raising non-religious children.

If you are a scientist, then how do you explain the scientific miracles in the Quran, that was revealed centuries before those were known to men?

Several verses in the Koran say the earth is flat, with the sky set like a dome above. See 88:20 re flatness, for example.

Wrong- 1) the quran doesnt say the earth is flat

2) the earth is not flat

3) It is impossible to describe the shape of the earth. It is not a sphere, it is from a the family of spheroid/ellipsoid so they invented a new word for it geo-spherical
That is due to translation, a lot is lost in translation when the quran is translated in english and then a lot of poeple scream outrage. The word used in 88:20 the word “suttihat” and the word “tahaaha” in 91:6, all may mean, “to spread”, “to expand” or “to extend” with slight differences in their connotations but none signify the earth being straight-shaped or flat.

Qur'an 88:20
???? ????? ??? ????

Wa-ila al-ardi kayfa sutihat
And at the Earth, how it is spread out?
Qur'an 88:20

Notice the word ??????? ? If you do a word search in an Arabic Qur'an text file you will find the word ???? , feminine for ???????

??????? = outspread , unfold , unroll , roll , lengthen , level , range , pave , pervade , circulate , grade , reach , even , level off , spread out , prostrate , plane , outstretch, flat , flatten , even , smoothen.

So why are people using FLAT to translate this verse?????? makes zero sense


spread out basically means that the earth has no end or no edge that you will fall over into space i.e. at all points on the surface of the earth, it is spread out in every direction you look. you can travel across the surface of the earth forever in any direction you want, but you will never hit an edge or wall to stop you from going further. The surface of the earth will always be spread out in all directions at any location on the earth whether you are on mount Everest or inside marina's trench. This indicate that the earth is rounded. any other shape in 3d would have an edge; like you would see the ground disappear and there would be space below. i still dont understand how spread out implies flat. Spread out means spread out. This is perhaps the most precise way of describing the shape of the earth without getting math involved. If Allah wanted to say flat He would have said just that (not carpet or spread out) and in that case the earth would have been flat!

[Anonymous]

For some reason the arabic words in arabic alphabet came out on my post as ????? Sorry about that, but the arabic word was suttitat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Normally, when I meet an atheist, the first thing I like to do is to congratulate him and say, " My special congratulations to you", because most of the people who believe in God are doing blind belief - he is a Christian, because his father is a Christian; he is a Hindu, because his father is a Hindu; the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers. An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him.

When a Muslim addresses this topic, we have to find our understanding from Divine Revelation and not human speculation. Because human ....

I think some of this may be a little unfair. As part of my continuing effort to question my own belief, I have read the Qu'ran cover to cover. One of the issues I had is that some of the more difficult passages must be accepted with question precisely because they are seen as infallible revelations. For this and other reasons I choose to stay in my patents' faith, but this has not been without inquiry on my part.

1. Leaving children of Muslim parents out of your "blind faith" equation involving Christians and Hindus.... No words.
2. I'm sure several of us could quote "divine revelation" in the Koran about what to do to polytheists like the Hindus. You really don't want to go there, you really don't.

1- Children of Muslim Parents are also part of that equation, the same thing applies to them.
2- Go ahead and quote whatever you want, I really do not care just like anyone can quote the bible and any other religious book for that matter about what they would do to non-believers. So again, your point it? And why are you so angry? Relax, take a deep breath, this is not a fight....

I'm not angry, and I think you're mistaking me with the emoticon-using poster above.

You imply I have no point, that I'm merely venting my anger. I was trying to be gentle, but you want me to spell it out. My point is that it's hard to see a book as divinely revealed when it urges followers in no uncertain terms to kill Hindus. (Koran 9:5, "Kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and beseige them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush.") Treatment of Christians and Jews (People of the Book) varies greatly in verses that vary by the context of the Muslims' relations to these other tribes on the particular day the verse was revealed, but in some verses the treatment is dire indeed. Again, my point is that claiming these words are God's own words is not as convincing as you were arguing above.

You go on to disparage other religions as "speculation that has no limits" which is untrue. Many religions are in fact based on sacred texts that are taken literally in some cases, and seen as divinely-inspired in other cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the same thing happens as before you are conceived, i.e. nothing.

If there is a God? To be honest, I find the idea of god as conceived by religious people to be so untenable that I don't spend any time worrying about it. But certainly I believe I have lived my life with as much integrity and generosity as most religious people.

Well, it is not about living you life with much integrity, it is about accepting his existence. The very fact that you deny Him is the biggest lack of integrity....

This is some of the most smug, arrogant, self righteous b.s. I have ever read. The kind of nonsense that lets sanctimonious hypocrites profess their righteousness and godliness and then misuse positions of power for private good (like Gov. VagProbe for ex.).

God knows that you are this ignorant and she is probably really pissed off at you right now for so completely misunderstanding her words and her commandments, and somewhere down the road awaits your comeuppance.

How utterly ignorant.

You don't believe in God, ergo you don't get to pontificate ever about what God wants, not in any form, including erecting hypotheticals for straw man purposes. I really cannot believe you claim to have any insight whatsoever into what God wants. You forfeited the right to have any opinion about it when you rejected Him.

The author of that post is not an atheist. The author is a nondenominational theist who thinks that intolerant hypocrites like you are profoundly un-Christian, and that god sees this and it really pisses her off. You may spew your pompous declarations about who is entitled to what but god sees you for the phony that you are.

Don't you fucking roll your eyes at me. Seriously, don't you do it.

I'm sorry I confused the pp with one of the atheists -- but I find it funny when atheists loudly proclaim their rejection of Him but then turn around and profess to have insight into what He believes.

You don't know anything about me. You called me un-Christian and an intolerant hypocrite. Based on what? A perfectly logical observation? Look, I'm sure this cognitive dissonance must be hard for you, but seriously, shut the fuck up, stop posting. And don't roll your fucking eyes at me.

NP, here.

I just have to say: "Yes, Mom."