S/O Why can’t moms just chill and be nice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is nice. They just aren't.

If you have a pattern of being the victim of bullies, it might make sense to look into why. You might need to improve your social skills.

Wow.

The only time I went through this stuff as an adult was at a specific company where I worked. It was horrific. I didn't even get the worse of it, another woman did. But no. It was those people, in a setting which allowed and implicitly encouraged it.

I think social skills can help with kids and teens--I was both shy and anxious and bullied. But most of the actual bullying was between 7th and 9th grade. Later I was more just isolated (although I did stay active in extracurriculars, Girl Scouts, church youth activities, so I had kind of a life, and I made one good friend my last couple years of h.s.).



Don't make being bullied the fault of the people who are mistreated.

People love to punch down - as evidenced by this thread. I’d be willing to bet that a lot of these posters insisting bullying doesn’t happen and is just a mental production of people who are insecure/paranoid are themselves bullies.

I read those posts and wish they would get a taste of this behavior they are so in denial of. Then I remember, for most of my life I would have also been dismissive of those comments. I think beyond not experiencing it, I wanted to feel like we were collectively above that lowly behavior. Then I experienced it so maybe it was something karmic and with maturity, I am not so doubting of the dilemmas and complaints of other people's experiences. Maybe I didnt want it to be true but I was fooling myself.

No one is denying that some women do this some of the time. We are saying that this behavior isn’t unique to women and it isn’t universal or even particularly commonplace.

And yet these threads pop up on here quite frequently and always get tons of traction. Perhaps it is more common than you realize.

Also it's unclear to me why it has to be universal or even commonplace to be problematic or worth talking about? There are lots of interpersonal issues I've never experienced myself and that I know are fare from universal, but if someone told me they had experienced it, my reaction would be to empathize. Like I've never had a stalker and none of my exes would ever do that. But if a friend told me she was being stalked by an ex, I'd listen to her and care about her situation. And if she said something like "why do men do this?" I wouldn't jump in to #notallmen her, because it's already implied. Of course all men don't stalk ex girlfriends. Of course not all women are judgmental and mean. But some are, and it sucks, and it seems worthwhile to discuss it when there are several women on this thread alone who have experienced something similar to OP. Who are you to tell them their experience wasn't what they thought it was?

Is it? Because a lot of the comments here are saying the opposite.

A lot? Are you sure? Because if you'll notice, none of the posts you are replying to said that. I've certainly never posted in this thread that all women are like this or that this is just how women are. I'm not going to go back looking for the posts that said that because I'm sure I just skipped right past those as not particularly useful. But you are more than welcome to go find them and criticize those posters. There's no reason for you to replying to posts that DON'T say anything like that as though they do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is nice. They just aren't.

If you have a pattern of being the victim of bullies, it might make sense to look into why. You might need to improve your social skills.

Wow.

The only time I went through this stuff as an adult was at a specific company where I worked. It was horrific. I didn't even get the worse of it, another woman did. But no. It was those people, in a setting which allowed and implicitly encouraged it.

I think social skills can help with kids and teens--I was both shy and anxious and bullied. But most of the actual bullying was between 7th and 9th grade. Later I was more just isolated (although I did stay active in extracurriculars, Girl Scouts, church youth activities, so I had kind of a life, and I made one good friend my last couple years of h.s.).



Don't make being bullied the fault of the people who are mistreated.

People love to punch down - as evidenced by this thread. I’d be willing to bet that a lot of these posters insisting bullying doesn’t happen and is just a mental production of people who are insecure/paranoid are themselves bullies.

I read those posts and wish they would get a taste of this behavior they are so in denial of. Then I remember, for most of my life I would have also been dismissive of those comments. I think beyond not experiencing it, I wanted to feel like we were collectively above that lowly behavior. Then I experienced it so maybe it was something karmic and with maturity, I am not so doubting of the dilemmas and complaints of other people's experiences. Maybe I didnt want it to be true but I was fooling myself.

No one is denying that some women do this some of the time. We are saying that this behavior isn’t unique to women and it isn’t universal or even particularly commonplace.

And yet these threads pop up on here quite frequently and always get tons of traction. Perhaps it is more common than you realize.

Also it's unclear to me why it has to be universal or even commonplace to be problematic or worth talking about? There are lots of interpersonal issues I've never experienced myself and that I know are fare from universal, but if someone told me they had experienced it, my reaction would be to empathize. Like I've never had a stalker and none of my exes would ever do that. But if a friend told me she was being stalked by an ex, I'd listen to her and care about her situation. And if she said something like "why do men do this?" I wouldn't jump in to #notallmen her, because it's already implied. Of course all men don't stalk ex girlfriends. Of course not all women are judgmental and mean. But some are, and it sucks, and it seems worthwhile to discuss it when there are several women on this thread alone who have experienced something similar to OP. Who are you to tell them their experience wasn't what they thought it was?

Is it? Because a lot of the comments here are saying the opposite.

A lot? Are you sure? Because if you'll notice, none of the posts you are replying to said that. I've certainly never posted in this thread that all women are like this or that this is just how women are. I'm not going to go back looking for the posts that said that because I'm sure I just skipped right past those as not particularly useful. But you are more than welcome to go find them and criticize those posters. There's no reason for you to replying to posts that DON'T say anything like that as though they do.

I’m calling out woman hating as I see it. You do you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is nice. They just aren't.

If you have a pattern of being the victim of bullies, it might make sense to look into why. You might need to improve your social skills.

Wow.

The only time I went through this stuff as an adult was at a specific company where I worked. It was horrific. I didn't even get the worse of it, another woman did. But no. It was those people, in a setting which allowed and implicitly encouraged it.

I think social skills can help with kids and teens--I was both shy and anxious and bullied. But most of the actual bullying was between 7th and 9th grade. Later I was more just isolated (although I did stay active in extracurriculars, Girl Scouts, church youth activities, so I had kind of a life, and I made one good friend my last couple years of h.s.).



Don't make being bullied the fault of the people who are mistreated.

People love to punch down - as evidenced by this thread. I’d be willing to bet that a lot of these posters insisting bullying doesn’t happen and is just a mental production of people who are insecure/paranoid are themselves bullies.

I read those posts and wish they would get a taste of this behavior they are so in denial of. Then I remember, for most of my life I would have also been dismissive of those comments. I think beyond not experiencing it, I wanted to feel like we were collectively above that lowly behavior. Then I experienced it so maybe it was something karmic and with maturity, I am not so doubting of the dilemmas and complaints of other people's experiences. Maybe I didnt want it to be true but I was fooling myself.

No one is denying that some women do this some of the time. We are saying that this behavior isn’t unique to women and it isn’t universal or even particularly commonplace.

And yet these threads pop up on here quite frequently and always get tons of traction. Perhaps it is more common than you realize.

Also it's unclear to me why it has to be universal or even commonplace to be problematic or worth talking about? There are lots of interpersonal issues I've never experienced myself and that I know are fare from universal, but if someone told me they had experienced it, my reaction would be to empathize. Like I've never had a stalker and none of my exes would ever do that. But if a friend told me she was being stalked by an ex, I'd listen to her and care about her situation. And if she said something like "why do men do this?" I wouldn't jump in to #notallmen her, because it's already implied. Of course all men don't stalk ex girlfriends. Of course not all women are judgmental and mean. But some are, and it sucks, and it seems worthwhile to discuss it when there are several women on this thread alone who have experienced something similar to OP. Who are you to tell them their experience wasn't what they thought it was?

That’s quite a straw man. No one is saying that this topic of off-limits. But I suggest you reread the comments in this thread because quite a few characterize this behavior as typical for women. At least a few imply or state explicitly something along the lines of “this is how women are.” THAT is what I’m objecting to.

Bullying is wrong and the behavior that OP describes is crappy. She is entitled to discuss this in an open forum. But I wont accept the lie that this kind of behavior is common for women or that female relationships are always/often characterized by this kind of passive aggression.

DP
There are more comments saying women who claim bullying are mentally ill/confused/mistaken/have trouble with social skills/craving sympathy/are reacting to being simply left out/starved for attention/women haters,,,

Literally nobody said all women are bullies though some said they are way more like this than men and people pushed back on that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is nice. They just aren't.

If you have a pattern of being the victim of bullies, it might make sense to look into why. You might need to improve your social skills.

Wow.

The only time I went through this stuff as an adult was at a specific company where I worked. It was horrific. I didn't even get the worse of it, another woman did. But no. It was those people, in a setting which allowed and implicitly encouraged it.

I think social skills can help with kids and teens--I was both shy and anxious and bullied. But most of the actual bullying was between 7th and 9th grade. Later I was more just isolated (although I did stay active in extracurriculars, Girl Scouts, church youth activities, so I had kind of a life, and I made one good friend my last couple years of h.s.).



Don't make being bullied the fault of the people who are mistreated.

People love to punch down - as evidenced by this thread. I’d be willing to bet that a lot of these posters insisting bullying doesn’t happen and is just a mental production of people who are insecure/paranoid are themselves bullies.

I read those posts and wish they would get a taste of this behavior they are so in denial of. Then I remember, for most of my life I would have also been dismissive of those comments. I think beyond not experiencing it, I wanted to feel like we were collectively above that lowly behavior. Then I experienced it so maybe it was something karmic and with maturity, I am not so doubting of the dilemmas and complaints of other people's experiences. Maybe I didnt want it to be true but I was fooling myself.

No one is denying that some women do this some of the time. We are saying that this behavior isn’t unique to women and it isn’t universal or even particularly commonplace.

And yet these threads pop up on here quite frequently and always get tons of traction. Perhaps it is more common than you realize.

Also it's unclear to me why it has to be universal or even commonplace to be problematic or worth talking about? There are lots of interpersonal issues I've never experienced myself and that I know are fare from universal, but if someone told me they had experienced it, my reaction would be to empathize. Like I've never had a stalker and none of my exes would ever do that. But if a friend told me she was being stalked by an ex, I'd listen to her and care about her situation. And if she said something like "why do men do this?" I wouldn't jump in to #notallmen her, because it's already implied. Of course all men don't stalk ex girlfriends. Of course not all women are judgmental and mean. But some are, and it sucks, and it seems worthwhile to discuss it when there are several women on this thread alone who have experienced something similar to OP. Who are you to tell them their experience wasn't what they thought it was?

Is it? Because a lot of the comments here are saying the opposite.

A lot? Are you sure? Because if you'll notice, none of the posts you are replying to said that. I've certainly never posted in this thread that all women are like this or that this is just how women are. I'm not going to go back looking for the posts that said that because I'm sure I just skipped right past those as not particularly useful. But you are more than welcome to go find them and criticize those posters. There's no reason for you to replying to posts that DON'T say anything like that as though they do.

I’m calling out woman hating as I see it. You do you.

You think criticizing anything a woman does is "woman hating" though. This is not the enlightened, feminist position you think it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is nice. They just aren't.

If you have a pattern of being the victim of bullies, it might make sense to look into why. You might need to improve your social skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a middle aged suburban mom who was relentlessly bullied in high school, I feel like I am reliving those horrific days again. I *hate* it, and I hate especially that it seems so much easier to be a dad: they don’t play these games and don’t care, so why do we?

Why can’t grown women just be cool and nice to each other? Real question.

You answered your own question.

My DH does not care if other dads like him. He is not in competition with other dads. He is not offended when other dads are cold or standoffish, he just think "oh this person is not friendly, I will not bother them anymore."

But I get why it happens because also society expects way more of moms, and just has higher standards, and this encourages a culture of comparison. The bar is lower for dads which means more of them clear it, and they can be more chill knowing they are meeting the minimal expectations of parenthood. Women often live in a constant state of insecurity that they aren't good enough, and this breeds competitive, unkind behavior towards one another.

Really does anyone have time for this middle school girl drama? Try to be nice and move along if nothing else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is nice. They just aren't.

If you have a pattern of being the victim of bullies, it might make sense to look into why. You might need to improve your social skills.

Wow.

The only time I went through this stuff as an adult was at a specific company where I worked. It was horrific. I didn't even get the worse of it, another woman did. But no. It was those people, in a setting which allowed and implicitly encouraged it.

I think social skills can help with kids and teens--I was both shy and anxious and bullied. But most of the actual bullying was between 7th and 9th grade. Later I was more just isolated (although I did stay active in extracurriculars, Girl Scouts, church youth activities, so I had kind of a life, and I made one good friend my last couple years of h.s.).



Don't make being bullied the fault of the people who are mistreated.

People love to punch down - as evidenced by this thread. I’d be willing to bet that a lot of these posters insisting bullying doesn’t happen and is just a mental production of people who are insecure/paranoid are themselves bullies.

I read those posts and wish they would get a taste of this behavior they are so in denial of. Then I remember, for most of my life I would have also been dismissive of those comments. I think beyond not experiencing it, I wanted to feel like we were collectively above that lowly behavior. Then I experienced it so maybe it was something karmic and with maturity, I am not so doubting of the dilemmas and complaints of other people's experiences. Maybe I didnt want it to be true but I was fooling myself.

No one is denying that some women do this some of the time. We are saying that this behavior isn’t unique to women and it isn’t universal or even particularly commonplace.

And yet these threads pop up on here quite frequently and always get tons of traction. Perhaps it is more common than you realize.

Also it's unclear to me why it has to be universal or even commonplace to be problematic or worth talking about? There are lots of interpersonal issues I've never experienced myself and that I know are fare from universal, but if someone told me they had experienced it, my reaction would be to empathize. Like I've never had a stalker and none of my exes would ever do that. But if a friend told me she was being stalked by an ex, I'd listen to her and care about her situation. And if she said something like "why do men do this?" I wouldn't jump in to #notallmen her, because it's already implied. Of course all men don't stalk ex girlfriends. Of course not all women are judgmental and mean. But some are, and it sucks, and it seems worthwhile to discuss it when there are several women on this thread alone who have experienced something similar to OP. Who are you to tell them their experience wasn't what they thought it was?

That’s quite a straw man. No one is saying that this topic of off-limits. But I suggest you reread the comments in this thread because quite a few characterize this behavior as typical for women. At least a few imply or state explicitly something along the lines of “this is how women are.” THAT is what I’m objecting to.

Bullying is wrong and the behavior that OP describes is crappy. She is entitled to discuss this in an open forum. But I wont accept the lie that this kind of behavior is common for women or that female relationships are always/often characterized by this kind of passive aggression.

DP
There are more comments saying women who claim bullying are mentally ill/confused/mistaken/have trouble with social skills/craving sympathy/are reacting to being simply left out/starved for attention/women haters,,,

Literally nobody said all women are bullies though some said they are way more like this than men and people pushed back on that

+1, it's weird to be offended by the implication that all women are "mean girls" (which literally no one on this thread has suggested) but then accuse a woman of not understanding her own experience when she tells you what she's been through.

If you have personally not bullied another woman, then there should be nothing threatening about a woman explaining that she experienced bullying. It doesn't implicate you in any way. It would be like if a woman was describing the experience of being harassed by a man, and a man's response was "ok but I think you are misreading the situation. if this has happened to you before, you really should consider whether there is something you are doing to invite this behavior. also not all men are harassers and I notice you didn't carefully qualify your description of your experience to make it clear that you don't think all men are like this, and that really offends me. Let's focus this conversation around my feelings, I'm done talking about your experience which increasingly I'm not even sure happened."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This site and talking with friends who left DC makes me wonder if it's really worse out there in the suburbs, especially those with "high performing" schools. Most families I've met in DCPS are pretty chill.

Same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is nice. They just aren't.

If you have a pattern of being the victim of bullies, it might make sense to look into why. You might need to improve your social skills.

Because people with poor social skills get bullied by poorly matured adult women? I think the bullies might need to improve their social skills.

[Anonymous]

Because in truth, women tend to be very catty ➕ emotional.
They are also very competitive and tend to hold a grudge.

Women = drama.
Period.

Signed,
A Woman 👩🏻

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm 46 and have literally never met anyone like this, OP. I've lived in Europe and the US, and attended grade schools and universities in multiple countries. I know some comments can be interpreted in many different ways, and I always choose to take what people say ina. constructive manner.

If this keeps happening to you... consider you might be part of the problem, as in: you always gravitate towards the same toxic personalities, or you interpret innocuous comments in negative ways, or you actively do things to warrant criticism. Probably mostly #2, wouldn't you say?




Most people are kind and tolerant. Some of high-strung but well-meaning and definitely not looking to bully anyone. I'm willing to believe a few are bullies... but I haven't met anyone who goes out of their way to be mean.

You are full of shite. What absolute bs. What op is describing is as common as dirt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a middle aged suburban mom who was relentlessly bullied in high school, I feel like I am reliving those horrific days again. I *hate* it, and I hate especially that it seems so much easier to be a dad: they don’t play these games and don’t care, so why do we?

Why can’t grown women just be cool and nice to each other? Real question.

I'm truly not trying to be rude but I don't have a clue what you're on about.

Ignore these posters op. They always show up to gaslight. There are plenty of us who know exactly what you are talking about. Many of us watch the bullying go on. I keep my distance from the mean girl cliques but it hurts when it affects your kids. And it does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is nice. They just aren't.

If you have a pattern of being the victim of bullies, it might make sense to look into why. You might need to improve your social skills.

Because people with poor social skills get bullied by poorly matured adult women? I think the bullies might need to improve their social skills.

So much this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is nice. They just aren't.

If you have a pattern of being the victim of bullies, it might make sense to look into why. You might need to improve your social skills.

Because people with poor social skills get bullied by poorly matured adult women? I think the bullies might need to improve their social skills.

So much this.

I am so glad someone said this. Sometimes I feel like I live in upside-down land because some of these comments are so backwards.

In my experience the best thing you can do when being bullied is remove yourself from the situation. It's the only behavioral change a victim can make that will actually cease the bully-victim dynamic, which is generally caused by the emotional immaturity/dysfunciton of the bully, not that of the victim.

Example: Victoria (victim) and Belinda (bully) work together. Victoria has some irritating behaviors, including talking excessively even when others are trying to work. There are several emotionally mature ways to address Victoria's behavior. One option would be to simply steer clear of her, knowing her excessive talking will annoy you. Another option might be set clear boundaries, for instance by telling her "Victoria, I need to get back to my work, I can't talk to you anymore right now" and being consistent with it. If Victoria's behavior didn't improve or continue to distract or annoy, you might reach out to her supervisor to ask them to speak to her about excessive talking in the office. All of these responses are fine.

But Belinda is emotionally immature and these measured, mature responses to Victoria's talking don't feel satisfying to her. She wants to punish Victoria for annoying her, because Belinda scores high on narcissism and views Victoria's annoying personality trait as a personal offense against Belinda. However, Belinda does not communicate directly because she does not like taking responsibility for her own feelings. Instead she will seek to passively harm Victoria through social manipulation. She will discuss Victoria casually with other colleagues, gossiping about how annoying Victoria is and speculating as to *why* she's annoying. She will be friendly to Victoria's face in the office, but criticize her continually behind her back. Belinda won't simply avoid Victoria as others do, she will seek to exclude Victoria while making sure Victoria knows she's being excluded. Belinda's goal is not merely to minimize interaction with Victoria (in fact Belinda will sometimes seek Victoria out or invite her to things because Belinda wants to see the negative impact her behavior has on Victoria -- the goal is to punish Victoria for annoying Belinda). Belinda will view Victoria's behavior as intentional and directed at Belinda, even when it's clearly just an annoying trait Victoria has with everyone.

Once this dynamic is in place, nothing Victoria does will change Belinda's feelings towards her. Victoria could stop speaking altogether, but Belinda will then be annoyed by Victoria's lack of speech. Or this will encourage Belinda, who will say "see, she could control it all along -- she was doing it on purpose to annoy me." Belinda will likely find other things she doesn't like about Victoria, to help justify her outsized dislike of her. She will criticize how Victoria dresses, her hobbies, etc., to emphasize that Victoria doesn't belong. If Victoria attempts to change her clothes or fit in better with people in the office, Belinda will label this behavior "desperate" or "try hard." It won't work.

The ONLY option for Victoria, unless Belinda suddenly leaves or company management miraculously decides to intervene (this never happens), is to quit that job and start over elsewhere. Or maybe transfer to another division if the company is large enough. And sure, this experience might lead her to be more careful about her talking problem at future jobs. But her excessive talking didn't cause the bullying. That was entirely caused by Belinda's own emotional and behavioral limitations. A mature person would be able to navigate a talkative colleague without trying to emotionally and reputationally destroy that colleague. But Belinda is not a mature person. She has a dark triad personality (high in narcissism, social manipulation, and psychopathy or lack of empathy) and likely needs intensive therapy to alter her dysfunctional social behaviors. There is no appeasing her. She's an abuser.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a middle aged suburban mom who was relentlessly bullied in high school, I feel like I am reliving those horrific days again. I *hate* it, and I hate especially that it seems so much easier to be a dad: they don’t play these games and don’t care, so why do we?

Why can’t grown women just be cool and nice to each other? Real question.

I'm truly not trying to be rude but I don't have a clue what you're on about.

Ignore these posters op. They always show up to gaslight. There are plenty of us who know exactly what you are talking about. Many of us watch the bullying go on. I keep my distance from the mean girl cliques but it hurts when it affects your kids. And it does.

NP. Having different experiences than you is not gaslighting.