Maybe I’m oblivious but I really don’t hear that kind of thing. Maybe I’m the one they are all talking about me! So that’s probably the play — find the other moms who are a total mess who everyone is gossiping about and you can all be happy together.
The only real thing I’ve seen is some unnecessary drama. Like one time a group I was in, there were some parents slow on paying the dues and the mom in charge of tracking it sent out an email to those ones that hadn’t paid with a copy to the co-leaders plus the person that kept the bank account for the group asking them to pay, and then one of the women got really nasty saying how dare the sender publicly shame her for forgetting to pay….its like. No, you just were being reminded in an efficient way rather then sending out six different emails.
And once there was insane drama over a preschool memory book but I actually think that mom was in the middle of a mental health breakdown.
I just think a certain percentage of people maybe aren’t used to working with other people and parenting puts them in situations they aren’t used to?
Anonymous wrote:What’s interesting is that I felt like this in middle and HS. Then I went off to college and didn’t encounter mean girls again until my 40s living in the burbs. The ages make me think it’s insecurity and boredom driving the behavior.
Insecurity and boredom driving the accusations, you mean?
Anonymous wrote:Can people give examples? What could these moms even be doing? I mean even if someone is a PTA tyrant for some reason, what are we talking about - the theme of the spring dance?
I haven’t experienced moms being mean at all, everyone seems nice or at worst, busy and disinterested. But I don’t understand what a mom could even do to me if she wanted to be mean.
In my experience, it's mostly gossip. People talk too much about other people, are not discreet about it, and also tend to be more judgmental of other women than I think is really necessary (lots of judgement about how other women parent, their spouses, their work situation, etc.).
I learned early on to be a little circumspect around other parents at my kids' daycare and school. That's not normally how I am, I'm usually an open book, but being a mom has taught me the value of discretion because there are just a lot of people who can't resist talking and passing judgment.
When little bits of gossip and judgment start making the rounds, it gets mean and can be really painful for the families concerned. Especially when the gossip concerns kids, marriages, or finances. This is why I make it a rule not to talk. I mean, I might discuss another family's situation with my husband, but I won't talk to other families about it. And I keep as much to myself about our own family as I can because I don't want to be the victim of one of these gossip cycles either.
That is a good example, for sure I wouldn’t want people talking about someone’s divorce in a mean way or anything like that. But while I’ve heard about stuff like that through other people, I’ve never heard it be judgmental I don’t think. And for unserious stuff like birthday parties, who cares? Aren’t we beyond being hurt by someone’s comment about the car you bought or idk what even they would be talking about? That you hired a hot nanny?
I just assume people might gossip and be mean but if they don’t say it to my face, I don’t sweat it. At worst, you kind of write someone off right?
That's fine but you might feel differently if moms around you were saying unkind things about your kids, your parenting, your spouse, etc. You think "oh I'm past being offended by that" but it's very, very easy to say that if you haven't experienced being the subject of unkind gossip. Not a one off comment about something that doesn't matter to you, but persistent gossip about something you care about, like that your kid has problems or your spouse is a loser. You think it can't touch you but it can. Everyone has their vulnerabilities.
I hear you, and I’m sure that would be hurtful, but here’s my thing about this - it’s far worse to call someone’s husband a loser than to have a loser husband, and everybody knows it. If someone goes around making genuinely unkind remarks, that person is going to get dropped by everyone, quickly.
There’s a difference between someone who repeats a factual story they know they probably shouldn’t, like that Suzie’s husband got sloshed and fell into the pool on Thursday, and someone who says “Suzie’s husband is a loser.”
Sometimes the former happens in a friend group more than it should and probably no one would do it on camera, but I wouldn’t say it’s “mean.”
This thread is reminding me though that I need to watch my tongue. Because I do sometimes repeat or pass on things that are gossipy. Not bad things, just funny or weird things. I sort of see it like, we’re all stuck on this island together. I can’t think of anyone I’ve gossiped about that I dislike or even “judge.” I wouldn’t repeat the story about the husband falling in the pool the same way if I thought he might be an alcoholic. But still, I should watch it.
Nope, because people don't say "Wow Julie's husband is a loser and her kid is messed up." What they do instead is concern troll. "I just feel so bad for Julie, the poor thing. I know she must see something in Rich but it's crazy how long he's been out if work. That must be so hard, I can't imagine. We're so lucky, Tom just got promoted last year. I'm so glad I picked a good one. And then on top of it, their son Will... I mean, I don't know for certain of course but some of his behavior just makes me think he might need some extra help, you know? Anyway I just feel so bad for her, it must be so hard, no wonder she's been struggling with her weight." But then never actually do anything to help her or even have a particularly close friendship with her, she's just a sad sack they keep around to make themselves feel good about themselves.
Then if Julie's fortunes change, are they happy? No. That's not what the want. Then it will be "Julie's changed since she lost all that weight. Ozempic. And I mean it's good Rich is doing well now but the way they talk about it -- have some humility. I worry about Will, too, you can tell he's not getting enough attention from either of them. Sometimes you need to focus on your kids, you know."
All in hushed tones like "I shouldn't be saying this, don't judge me, I'm just worried about her!"
And other people like to gossip and feel superior too, so they'll participate even if they don't instigate.
Happens all the time.
I don’t think people really talk like that.
I've heard people talk like that MANY times. The fake sympathy/pity thing to mask judgment and criticism is really common IME. Perhaps more common with older women (like over 50) but I've known younger women who act that way too.
They definitely do. I didn't think they did (not past the ages of 15-20something) but then I met someone who does that all the fudging time and you know if they talk like that to you, they are talking about you like that to someone else. So I keep my distance but can't avoid them in the name of "community."
They also do a lot of the other things cliquish moms are accused of, so it's totally real. I think they maintain just enough friends and acquaintances that you might assume that there are tons of others like them out there but I'd like to believe they're a small, but vocal and toxic, minority in any community.
Anonymous wrote:Can people give examples? What could these moms even be doing? I mean even if someone is a PTA tyrant for some reason, what are we talking about - the theme of the spring dance?
I haven’t experienced moms being mean at all, everyone seems nice or at worst, busy and disinterested. But I don’t understand what a mom could even do to me if she wanted to be mean.
In my experience, it's mostly gossip. People talk too much about other people, are not discreet about it, and also tend to be more judgmental of other women than I think is really necessary (lots of judgement about how other women parent, their spouses, their work situation, etc.).
I learned early on to be a little circumspect around other parents at my kids' daycare and school. That's not normally how I am, I'm usually an open book, but being a mom has taught me the value of discretion because there are just a lot of people who can't resist talking and passing judgment.
When little bits of gossip and judgment start making the rounds, it gets mean and can be really painful for the families concerned. Especially when the gossip concerns kids, marriages, or finances. This is why I make it a rule not to talk. I mean, I might discuss another family's situation with my husband, but I won't talk to other families about it. And I keep as much to myself about our own family as I can because I don't want to be the victim of one of these gossip cycles either.
That is a good example, for sure I wouldn’t want people talking about someone’s divorce in a mean way or anything like that. But while I’ve heard about stuff like that through other people, I’ve never heard it be judgmental I don’t think. And for unserious stuff like birthday parties, who cares? Aren’t we beyond being hurt by someone’s comment about the car you bought or idk what even they would be talking about? That you hired a hot nanny?
I just assume people might gossip and be mean but if they don’t say it to my face, I don’t sweat it. At worst, you kind of write someone off right?
That's fine but you might feel differently if moms around you were saying unkind things about your kids, your parenting, your spouse, etc. You think "oh I'm past being offended by that" but it's very, very easy to say that if you haven't experienced being the subject of unkind gossip. Not a one off comment about something that doesn't matter to you, but persistent gossip about something you care about, like that your kid has problems or your spouse is a loser. You think it can't touch you but it can. Everyone has their vulnerabilities.
I hear you, and I’m sure that would be hurtful, but here’s my thing about this - it’s far worse to call someone’s husband a loser than to have a loser husband, and everybody knows it. If someone goes around making genuinely unkind remarks, that person is going to get dropped by everyone, quickly.
There’s a difference between someone who repeats a factual story they know they probably shouldn’t, like that Suzie’s husband got sloshed and fell into the pool on Thursday, and someone who says “Suzie’s husband is a loser.”
Sometimes the former happens in a friend group more than it should and probably no one would do it on camera, but I wouldn’t say it’s “mean.”
This thread is reminding me though that I need to watch my tongue. Because I do sometimes repeat or pass on things that are gossipy. Not bad things, just funny or weird things. I sort of see it like, we’re all stuck on this island together. I can’t think of anyone I’ve gossiped about that I dislike or even “judge.” I wouldn’t repeat the story about the husband falling in the pool the same way if I thought he might be an alcoholic. But still, I should watch it.
Nope, because people don't say "Wow Julie's husband is a loser and her kid is messed up." What they do instead is concern troll. "I just feel so bad for Julie, the poor thing. I know she must see something in Rich but it's crazy how long he's been out if work. That must be so hard, I can't imagine. We're so lucky, Tom just got promoted last year. I'm so glad I picked a good one. And then on top of it, their son Will... I mean, I don't know for certain of course but some of his behavior just makes me think he might need some extra help, you know? Anyway I just feel so bad for her, it must be so hard, no wonder she's been struggling with her weight." But then never actually do anything to help her or even have a particularly close friendship with her, she's just a sad sack they keep around to make themselves feel good about themselves.
Then if Julie's fortunes change, are they happy? No. That's not what the want. Then it will be "Julie's changed since she lost all that weight. Ozempic. And I mean it's good Rich is doing well now but the way they talk about it -- have some humility. I worry about Will, too, you can tell he's not getting enough attention from either of them. Sometimes you need to focus on your kids, you know."
All in hushed tones like "I shouldn't be saying this, don't judge me, I'm just worried about her!"
And other people like to gossip and feel superior too, so they'll participate even if they don't instigate.
Happens all the time.
I don’t think people really talk like that.
I've heard people talk like that MANY times. The fake sympathy/pity thing to mask judgment and criticism is really common IME. Perhaps more common with older women (like over 50) but I've known younger women who act that way too.
They definitely do. I didn't think they did (not past the ages of 15-20something) but then I met someone who does that all the fudging time and you know if they talk like that to you, they are talking about you like that to someone else. So I keep my distance but can't avoid them in the name of "community."
They also do a lot of the other things cliquish moms are accused of, so it's totally real. I think they maintain just enough friends and acquaintances that you might assume that there are tons of others like them out there but I'd like to believe they're a small, but vocal and toxic, minority in any community.
I worked with a woman like this. She was late 30s into early 40s when I worked with her, and had two kids during that time (didn't have kids when I first met her). She had other even more problematic behaviors, but this was definitely part of her repertoire.
Also other people would do it around her. Including some who I don't think would have initiated that sort of gossip themselves. But people are easily influenced and would join her to ingratiate themselves with her, because she wielded a lot of power in that job.
Anonymous wrote:Can people give examples? What could these moms even be doing? I mean even if someone is a PTA tyrant for some reason, what are we talking about - the theme of the spring dance?
I haven’t experienced moms being mean at all, everyone seems nice or at worst, busy and disinterested. But I don’t understand what a mom could even do to me if she wanted to be mean.
In my experience, it's mostly gossip. People talk too much about other people, are not discreet about it, and also tend to be more judgmental of other women than I think is really necessary (lots of judgement about how other women parent, their spouses, their work situation, etc.).
I learned early on to be a little circumspect around other parents at my kids' daycare and school. That's not normally how I am, I'm usually an open book, but being a mom has taught me the value of discretion because there are just a lot of people who can't resist talking and passing judgment.
When little bits of gossip and judgment start making the rounds, it gets mean and can be really painful for the families concerned. Especially when the gossip concerns kids, marriages, or finances. This is why I make it a rule not to talk. I mean, I might discuss another family's situation with my husband, but I won't talk to other families about it. And I keep as much to myself about our own family as I can because I don't want to be the victim of one of these gossip cycles either.
That is a good example, for sure I wouldn’t want people talking about someone’s divorce in a mean way or anything like that. But while I’ve heard about stuff like that through other people, I’ve never heard it be judgmental I don’t think. And for unserious stuff like birthday parties, who cares? Aren’t we beyond being hurt by someone’s comment about the car you bought or idk what even they would be talking about? That you hired a hot nanny?
I just assume people might gossip and be mean but if they don’t say it to my face, I don’t sweat it. At worst, you kind of write someone off right?
That's fine but you might feel differently if moms around you were saying unkind things about your kids, your parenting, your spouse, etc. You think "oh I'm past being offended by that" but it's very, very easy to say that if you haven't experienced being the subject of unkind gossip. Not a one off comment about something that doesn't matter to you, but persistent gossip about something you care about, like that your kid has problems or your spouse is a loser. You think it can't touch you but it can. Everyone has their vulnerabilities.
I hear you, and I’m sure that would be hurtful, but here’s my thing about this - it’s far worse to call someone’s husband a loser than to have a loser husband, and everybody knows it. If someone goes around making genuinely unkind remarks, that person is going to get dropped by everyone, quickly.
There’s a difference between someone who repeats a factual story they know they probably shouldn’t, like that Suzie’s husband got sloshed and fell into the pool on Thursday, and someone who says “Suzie’s husband is a loser.”
Sometimes the former happens in a friend group more than it should and probably no one would do it on camera, but I wouldn’t say it’s “mean.”
This thread is reminding me though that I need to watch my tongue. Because I do sometimes repeat or pass on things that are gossipy. Not bad things, just funny or weird things. I sort of see it like, we’re all stuck on this island together. I can’t think of anyone I’ve gossiped about that I dislike or even “judge.” I wouldn’t repeat the story about the husband falling in the pool the same way if I thought he might be an alcoholic. But still, I should watch it.
Nope, because people don't say "Wow Julie's husband is a loser and her kid is messed up." What they do instead is concern troll. "I just feel so bad for Julie, the poor thing. I know she must see something in Rich but it's crazy how long he's been out if work. That must be so hard, I can't imagine. We're so lucky, Tom just got promoted last year. I'm so glad I picked a good one. And then on top of it, their son Will... I mean, I don't know for certain of course but some of his behavior just makes me think he might need some extra help, you know? Anyway I just feel so bad for her, it must be so hard, no wonder she's been struggling with her weight." But then never actually do anything to help her or even have a particularly close friendship with her, she's just a sad sack they keep around to make themselves feel good about themselves.
Then if Julie's fortunes change, are they happy? No. That's not what the want. Then it will be "Julie's changed since she lost all that weight. Ozempic. And I mean it's good Rich is doing well now but the way they talk about it -- have some humility. I worry about Will, too, you can tell he's not getting enough attention from either of them. Sometimes you need to focus on your kids, you know."
All in hushed tones like "I shouldn't be saying this, don't judge me, I'm just worried about her!"
And other people like to gossip and feel superior too, so they'll participate even if they don't instigate.
Happens all the time.
I don’t think people really talk like that.
I've heard people talk like that MANY times. The fake sympathy/pity thing to mask judgment and criticism is really common IME. Perhaps more common with older women (like over 50) but I've known younger women who act that way too.
They definitely do. I didn't think they did (not past the ages of 15-20something) but then I met someone who does that all the fudging time and you know if they talk like that to you, they are talking about you like that to someone else. So I keep my distance but can't avoid them in the name of "community."
They also do a lot of the other things cliquish moms are accused of, so it's totally real. I think they maintain just enough friends and acquaintances that you might assume that there are tons of others like them out there but I'd like to believe they're a small, but vocal and toxic, minority in any community.
NP
I know so many people like this, maybe its more common here. But now that I think of it I've known people like this in completely different countries, but their version of "polite society". Some of you are just lucky not to have encountered "concern gossips". My own mom was like this and I disliked it early on. Dealing with more people like this as an adult is probably my penance for my mother's sins.
Anonymous wrote:Can people give examples? What could these moms even be doing? I mean even if someone is a PTA tyrant for some reason, what are we talking about - the theme of the spring dance?
I haven’t experienced moms being mean at all, everyone seems nice or at worst, busy and disinterested. But I don’t understand what a mom could even do to me if she wanted to be mean.
In my experience, it's mostly gossip. People talk too much about other people, are not discreet about it, and also tend to be more judgmental of other women than I think is really necessary (lots of judgement about how other women parent, their spouses, their work situation, etc.).
I learned early on to be a little circumspect around other parents at my kids' daycare and school. That's not normally how I am, I'm usually an open book, but being a mom has taught me the value of discretion because there are just a lot of people who can't resist talking and passing judgment.
When little bits of gossip and judgment start making the rounds, it gets mean and can be really painful for the families concerned. Especially when the gossip concerns kids, marriages, or finances. This is why I make it a rule not to talk. I mean, I might discuss another family's situation with my husband, but I won't talk to other families about it. And I keep as much to myself about our own family as I can because I don't want to be the victim of one of these gossip cycles either.
That is a good example, for sure I wouldn’t want people talking about someone’s divorce in a mean way or anything like that. But while I’ve heard about stuff like that through other people, I’ve never heard it be judgmental I don’t think. And for unserious stuff like birthday parties, who cares? Aren’t we beyond being hurt by someone’s comment about the car you bought or idk what even they would be talking about? That you hired a hot nanny?
I just assume people might gossip and be mean but if they don’t say it to my face, I don’t sweat it. At worst, you kind of write someone off right?
That's fine but you might feel differently if moms around you were saying unkind things about your kids, your parenting, your spouse, etc. You think "oh I'm past being offended by that" but it's very, very easy to say that if you haven't experienced being the subject of unkind gossip. Not a one off comment about something that doesn't matter to you, but persistent gossip about something you care about, like that your kid has problems or your spouse is a loser. You think it can't touch you but it can. Everyone has their vulnerabilities.
I hear you, and I’m sure that would be hurtful, but here’s my thing about this - it’s far worse to call someone’s husband a loser than to have a loser husband, and everybody knows it. If someone goes around making genuinely unkind remarks, that person is going to get dropped by everyone, quickly.
There’s a difference between someone who repeats a factual story they know they probably shouldn’t, like that Suzie’s husband got sloshed and fell into the pool on Thursday, and someone who says “Suzie’s husband is a loser.”
Sometimes the former happens in a friend group more than it should and probably no one would do it on camera, but I wouldn’t say it’s “mean.”
This thread is reminding me though that I need to watch my tongue. Because I do sometimes repeat or pass on things that are gossipy. Not bad things, just funny or weird things. I sort of see it like, we’re all stuck on this island together. I can’t think of anyone I’ve gossiped about that I dislike or even “judge.” I wouldn’t repeat the story about the husband falling in the pool the same way if I thought he might be an alcoholic. But still, I should watch it.
Nope, because people don't say "Wow Julie's husband is a loser and her kid is messed up." What they do instead is concern troll. "I just feel so bad for Julie, the poor thing. I know she must see something in Rich but it's crazy how long he's been out if work. That must be so hard, I can't imagine. We're so lucky, Tom just got promoted last year. I'm so glad I picked a good one. And then on top of it, their son Will... I mean, I don't know for certain of course but some of his behavior just makes me think he might need some extra help, you know? Anyway I just feel so bad for her, it must be so hard, no wonder she's been struggling with her weight." But then never actually do anything to help her or even have a particularly close friendship with her, she's just a sad sack they keep around to make themselves feel good about themselves.
Then if Julie's fortunes change, are they happy? No. That's not what the want. Then it will be "Julie's changed since she lost all that weight. Ozempic. And I mean it's good Rich is doing well now but the way they talk about it -- have some humility. I worry about Will, too, you can tell he's not getting enough attention from either of them. Sometimes you need to focus on your kids, you know."
All in hushed tones like "I shouldn't be saying this, don't judge me, I'm just worried about her!"
And other people like to gossip and feel superior too, so they'll participate even if they don't instigate.
Happens all the time.
I don’t think people really talk like that.
I've heard people talk like that MANY times. The fake sympathy/pity thing to mask judgment and criticism is really common IME. Perhaps more common with older women (like over 50) but I've known younger women who act that way too.
They definitely do. I didn't think they did (not past the ages of 15-20something) but then I met someone who does that all the fudging time and you know if they talk like that to you, they are talking about you like that to someone else. So I keep my distance but can't avoid them in the name of "community."
They also do a lot of the other things cliquish moms are accused of, so it's totally real. I think they maintain just enough friends and acquaintances that you might assume that there are tons of others like them out there but I'd like to believe they're a small, but vocal and toxic, minority in any community.
NP
I know so many people like this, maybe its more common here. But now that I think of it I've known people like this in completely different countries, but their version of "polite society". Some of you are just lucky not to have encountered "concern gossips". My own mom was like this and I disliked it early on. Dealing with more people like this as an adult is probably my penance for my mother's sins.
Yes, my mom was like this for a long time. My sister and I finally got her to stop, at least with us, but I suspect she still does it with her sisters because it's how they bond, sadly.
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