S/O Why can’t moms just chill and be nice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a middle aged suburban mom who was relentlessly bullied in high school, I feel like I am reliving those horrific days again. I *hate* it, and I hate especially that it seems so much easier to be a dad: they don’t play these games and don’t care, so why do we?

Why can’t grown women just be cool and nice to each other? Real question.

I know that this can happen anywhere but this flavor seems to be particular to the DMV

I don't think so. Clearly you have never met Southern Moms.

+100000. It’s everywhere.

It gets worse as women lose their looks and are unemployed.

Notice how friendly and inclusive a group of attractive 28 year old women are? Now compare that to some overweight middle aged moms in Vienna. Complete opposite.

I agree with the poster who said it's a small percentage who are the worst and cause the most damage. I tend to avoid mom groups. I find people much more normal 1-1 or just in a very small group. Perfectly nice women can sometimes go along with rude behavior to get along in groups.

I laughed though at how "it gets worse as women lose their looks." My mom is a mean girl who was very pretty in her day. When she was getting a steady stream of compliments for her looks and women fawning over her she could stand to be nice. Now that she's old, wrinkled and a widow she is so mean! She gets a thrill out of making people visibly uncomfortable and then plays victim when anyone snaps back. It's usually only her peers who will snap back because everyone else is afraid of being accused of elder abuse. Miserable people like to spread the misery.

The bolded is such a common thing I've seen and experienced among people of all ages. Its exhausting and often the bully comes out looking so innocent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s always “I think those women are insecure, shallow betches. Why don’t they want to hang out with me?”

No, but that is often the response. People don't feel comfortable with aggression or social manipulation directed at them, that does not mean they secretly want to be best friends! In fact they often want the offenders to back off.

The same goes for those claiming its bored moms craving attention, its often the attention they didn't want and are frustrated about.

[Anonymous]

What’s interesting is that I felt like this in middle and HS. Then I went off to college and didn’t encounter mean girls again until my 40s living in the burbs. The ages make me think it’s insecurity and boredom driving the behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What’s interesting is that I felt like this in middle and HS. Then I went off to college and didn’t encounter mean girls again until my 40s living in the burbs. The ages make me think it’s insecurity and boredom driving the behavior.

Having kids reactivates all sorts of weirdness in moms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s interesting is that I felt like this in middle and HS. Then I went off to college and didn’t encounter mean girls again until my 40s living in the burbs. The ages make me think it’s insecurity and boredom driving the behavior.

Having kids reactivates all sorts of weirdness in moms.

I think it’s losing control similar to how HS girls don’t have full control over their lives.

You lose a lot of control if you’re dependent on someone else financially and similar to HS your world is smaller if you’re not working.

[Anonymous]

Humans have a strong natural competitive drive and if there isn't (enough of) an outlet for this through their career, it's coming-out in other ways.

[Anonymous]

Can people give examples? What could these moms even be doing? I mean even if someone is a PTA tyrant for some reason, what are we talking about - the theme of the spring dance?

I haven’t experienced moms being mean at all, everyone seems nice or at worst, busy and disinterested. But I don’t understand what a mom could even do to me if she wanted to be mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can people give examples? What could these moms even be doing? I mean even if someone is a PTA tyrant for some reason, what are we talking about - the theme of the spring dance?

I haven’t experienced moms being mean at all, everyone seems nice or at worst, busy and disinterested. But I don’t understand what a mom could even do to me if she wanted to be mean.

In my experience, it's mostly gossip. People talk too much about other people, are not discreet about it, and also tend to be more judgmental of other women than I think is really necessary (lots of judgement about how other women parent, their spouses, their work situation, etc.).

I learned early on to be a little circumspect around other parents at my kids' daycare and school. That's not normally how I am, I'm usually an open book, but being a mom has taught me the value of discretion because there are just a lot of people who can't resist talking and passing judgment.

When little bits of gossip and judgment start making the rounds, it gets mean and can be really painful for the families concerned. Especially when the gossip concerns kids, marriages, or finances. This is why I make it a rule not to talk. I mean, I might discuss another family's situation with my husband, but I won't talk to other families about it. And I keep as much to myself about our own family as I can because I don't want to be the victim of one of these gossip cycles either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can people give examples? What could these moms even be doing? I mean even if someone is a PTA tyrant for some reason, what are we talking about - the theme of the spring dance?

I haven’t experienced moms being mean at all, everyone seems nice or at worst, busy and disinterested. But I don’t understand what a mom could even do to me if she wanted to be mean.

In my experience, it's mostly gossip. People talk too much about other people, are not discreet about it, and also tend to be more judgmental of other women than I think is really necessary (lots of judgement about how other women parent, their spouses, their work situation, etc.).

I learned early on to be a little circumspect around other parents at my kids' daycare and school. That's not normally how I am, I'm usually an open book, but being a mom has taught me the value of discretion because there are just a lot of people who can't resist talking and passing judgment.

When little bits of gossip and judgment start making the rounds, it gets mean and can be really painful for the families concerned. Especially when the gossip concerns kids, marriages, or finances. This is why I make it a rule not to talk. I mean, I might discuss another family's situation with my husband, but I won't talk to other families about it. And I keep as much to myself about our own family as I can because I don't want to be the victim of one of these gossip cycles either.

That is a good example, for sure I wouldn’t want people talking about someone’s divorce in a mean way or anything like that. But while I’ve heard about stuff like that through other people, I’ve never heard it be judgmental I don’t think. And for unserious stuff like birthday parties, who cares? Aren’t we beyond being hurt by someone’s comment about the car you bought or idk what even they would be talking about? That you hired a hot nanny?

I just assume people might gossip and be mean but if they don’t say it to my face, I don’t sweat it. At worst, you kind of write someone off right?

[Anonymous]

Women are catty. They are competitive with each other. If you are pretty or better in some way, they feel bad about themselves, and get aggressive.

[Anonymous]

My neighbors and friends are lovely. But we aren't McMansion country-club social-status strivers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m always dubious when an adult claims they’ve been bullied by another adult. I’m sure it happens on rare occasions, but I tend to think the person claiming to have been bullied is just upset they haven’t been made to feel welcome by a social group.
The meaning of the word bully has been totally watered down as well as become shorthand for “not included”.

NP. No, I have witnessed a lot of mean, passive-aggressive, uber-competitive barbs, usually toward women who are, yes, non-conformist in some respect. It is very much like high school and it shocks me every time to hear these kinds of coded insults coming out of grown women's mouths. The nice moms are out there for sure, but can take a bit of effort to suss out. I have lived in a number of different areas and never felt cautious in mom groups outside of the DMV. Here there is usually one, or more than one, competing for Queen B status. Travel sports moms are notorious for this.

+1. I live in an area of Northern Virginia mentioned on this site as welcoming, and family friendly. The things I hear at neighborhood get togethers about other moms by supposed "friends" is insane. Not to mention, the passive-aggressive, catty remarks that are made to each other's faces. And this is between women within a friend group. Also, there are several women vying to be queen bee - one of which is an assistant principal at an FCPS high school. I hope she is more mature at work than she is in the neighborhood.

Agree, people are very catty and judgmental and definitely dislike people who don’t conform. The best was when I heard a teacher’s kid make stereotypical comments about kids at his school of a different race and the teacher mom had to shush him. I learned then that this wasn’t a welcoming place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can people give examples? What could these moms even be doing? I mean even if someone is a PTA tyrant for some reason, what are we talking about - the theme of the spring dance?

I haven’t experienced moms being mean at all, everyone seems nice or at worst, busy and disinterested. But I don’t understand what a mom could even do to me if she wanted to be mean.

In my experience, it's mostly gossip. People talk too much about other people, are not discreet about it, and also tend to be more judgmental of other women than I think is really necessary (lots of judgement about how other women parent, their spouses, their work situation, etc.).

I learned early on to be a little circumspect around other parents at my kids' daycare and school. That's not normally how I am, I'm usually an open book, but being a mom has taught me the value of discretion because there are just a lot of people who can't resist talking and passing judgment.

When little bits of gossip and judgment start making the rounds, it gets mean and can be really painful for the families concerned. Especially when the gossip concerns kids, marriages, or finances. This is why I make it a rule not to talk. I mean, I might discuss another family's situation with my husband, but I won't talk to other families about it. And I keep as much to myself about our own family as I can because I don't want to be the victim of one of these gossip cycles either.

That is a good example, for sure I wouldn’t want people talking about someone’s divorce in a mean way or anything like that. But while I’ve heard about stuff like that through other people, I’ve never heard it be judgmental I don’t think. And for unserious stuff like birthday parties, who cares? Aren’t we beyond being hurt by someone’s comment about the car you bought or idk what even they would be talking about? That you hired a hot nanny?

I just assume people might gossip and be mean but if they don’t say it to my face, I don’t sweat it. At worst, you kind of write someone off right?

That's fine but you might feel differently if moms around you were saying unkind things about your kids, your parenting, your spouse, etc. You think "oh I'm past being offended by that" but it's very, very easy to say that if you haven't experienced being the subject of unkind gossip. Not a one off comment about something that doesn't matter to you, but persistent gossip about something you care about, like that your kid has problems or your spouse is a loser. You think it can't touch you but it can. Everyone has their vulnerabilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My neighbors and friends are lovely. But we aren't McMansion country-club social-status strivers.

Oh come on, I see this toxic nonsense in Burke. Don’t act like this is limited to Arlington and McLean.

[Anonymous]

I’m an empty nester and years and years of these games made me give up on friendships. It was very hard. At one point I thought I had a good group but it turned out to be pretty awful. The last good friendships I had were all pre motherhood.