How to forgive spouse for initiating a gray divorce?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:How old are you and your soon to be exdh? Is there enough money for retirement? Reasons for the gray divorce?
The answers to these questions has implications for whether forgiveness is possible.

53, 3 kids 18,20,22
Financial issues and not enough for retirement but not dire.
He wants more passion and feels we have grown apart.

Yeah, “passion”. If he isn’t already cheating he has prospects lined up.

HAHAHAHA. How many prospects does a pathetic mid-50s guy have?

Lots of them, I fit your description and life has been great since separation. Bonus was discovering I didn’t need cialis like I did when I was married !

Yeah, for passion, but nothing else.

My 52-year old male friend is dating and the women he is currently with is 30, attractive, but a nut job and loser in the career field (she works as a part-time receptionist). She wants kids and a husband to pay for everything. So, I mean, "lots of prospects" but no real winners.

You are 100% right, I am in this for the fun, all the stuff that happens in the first couple months or maybe two years tops. I am never going to help regulate a woman’s emotions, I am not going to be a dumping ground for anxiety, I’m not going to listen about something her sister did. I’ll be a great boyfriend but as soon as it stops being 75% fun we’re done.

That’s fine, as long as you’ve communicated that to your girlfriend. Have you?

[Anonymous]

I would think grey divorce is more often initiated by women? I mean, once the kids are raised and off to college, they can walk away with half the marital assets, drop their adult man-child, and finally live for themselves. Casual dating is generally easier for women than men at any age, provided a woman is fit and takes care of herself.

[Anonymous]

There is nothing more pitiful and pathetic than these recently divorced old men in their 50s who think they are hot sh!t. You are gross losers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are you and your soon to be exdh? Is there enough money for retirement? Reasons for the gray divorce?
The answers to these questions has implications for whether forgiveness is possible.

53, 3 kids 18,20,22
Financial issues and not enough for retirement but not dire.
He wants more passion and feels we have grown apart.

So he used you and now he’s legally moving on.

Did he cheat as well? Family life too boring and time consuming so stayed focus on himself, work and sex elsewhere. ? .

Won’t your kids see through this and think less of him? I can’t imagine anyone wanting this for their daughter in her future.

Didn’t cheat physically maybe a bit emotionally. Yes def wants fun, adventure, passion, excitement, vitality etc. already traveled a lot over the years. Very into self development. Kids i can’t imagine the emotional turmoil. I’m not even engaging with that yet.

You might be surprised. Often they are relieved, and wonder what took you so long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op again/ he is a good dad 100%. Also a good person generally speaking, just self absorbed imo and wants a fantasy.

You are being fair and clear eyed.

Now write down some good traits of your own.

Your ego takes a blow through this experience, but I bet you are stronger than you realize. 💕

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s telling that you are refusing to accept his agency in your relationship…

He stayed long enough for you to do all the free childcare, cooking, running of the household, cleaning, raising & launching the kids.

Now his pretending to be a husband and father are more formally over.

Let the playtime commence!

Nor should it be.

He also stayed long enough to give her a significant chunk of assets, pension, etc. so even if she did all that, that work wasn’t free to him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It’s telling that you are refusing to accept his agency in your relationship…

What do you mean? I understand he needs to be happy but I’m still pissed since I sacrificied a lot.

Let this be a lesson to younger women - do not sacrifice more than you are willing to.

This

And go shopping often

You give women a bad name.

And no amount of shopping can fill deep sadness. Spend your money on therapy PP—you sound bitter and hollow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:You don't have to forgive him.

Forgive yourself for being mad. It's understandable you're mad. Let yourself feel your anger, talk to someone about it (therapist, friend, someone) but release yourself from it.

Someone once did something really awful to me and they never apologized or even took responsibility for it. For a long time I kept telling myself I had to forgive them (partly because other people kept telling me I'd never move on if I didn't forgive them). But I couldn't! How can you forgive someone who isn't even sorry for the harm they caused?

But then one day I decided to just accept that I couldn't forgive them, and I decided it was fine, and that gave me the release I needed to move on. Some people suck. You don't have to let them off the hook (they can figure that out themselves) but you can let yourself off the hook.

Wishing you peace, OP.

Forgiveness isn’t letting them off the hook for what they did. It’s admitting that this is your life now, you have to move on and make the best of it for yourself so they can’t steal anymore joy from your life than they already have. They won’t ever see what they did as wrong, but you can live a life according to your values and choose better people to be close to going forward.

PP here. We are saying the same thing. I have personally found that not trying to frame this as "forgiveness" is easier because I'd get hung up on it being something I was a giving someone who didn't deserve it. I thought of it as just letting go of them and focusing on my own well being. I never really forgave but I did move on.

I agree with how you handled this and I would urge the same thing — but it is a type of forgiveness, even if you don’t want to use that word.

Forgiveness is not just “letting someone off the hook” — it is instead deciding to pay a debt by taking it on your own shoulders.

Think of this example —

If someone comes into your house tonight and breaks a lamp — there is now a debt. The lamp has been broken.

One response is to send the other person a bill and say you owe me X for breaking my lamp.

The other response is to say — don’t worry about it, I will buy a new lamp.

Another response is to decide just to sit in darkness.

But in the latter two examples — you are taking on the debt yourself.

There is always pain involved in forgiveness because you are choosing to take on the debt yourself.

You can forgive someone while still creating new and healthy boundaries. If someone breaks the lamp every time they come into your house — you can say the first or even second time, OK, I am going to pay the debt — but you can also stop inviting them into your house as a self protective measure. That’s loving and kind to both of you.

Food for thought.

DP : There are two connotations to the term "forgive." The material debt paying kind, as in to forgive a debt owed, and the psychological/spiritual kind, which is a letting go of resentment for the wrong.

You can require someone to pay the material debt and also forgive them for the wrong done, as in cease to resent them for the trouble caused. so in your example, no matter what you choose to do on the material side, seek payment, pay, or not fix, you can still forgive the person for the trespass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming the couple is college educated, this situation is an outlier.

https://www.whitleylawfirmpc.com/3-reasons-why-women-initiate-divorce-more-often-than-men/#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20nearly%2070%20percent,number%20jumps%20up%20to%2090%25.

Maybe she’s mad partly because he flipped the script, and people will assume there must be something toxic about her for her husband to push the eject button, since “everybody” knows college-educated men rarely initiate divorces.

I’m a woman in this situation and I am indeed angry because my mentally ill exDH who initiated a nearly-gray divorce was a pretty awful person and I was staying in our marriage to be the human shield for our kids. Now exDH is benefiting from the “she must be crazy because no college-educated women get a divorce initiated against them” assumption and he has shifted to picking on the kids, relentlessly.

OP, people are going to make nasty assumptions. I think what I mourn more than the money or my sacrificed opportunity (but never more than our kids’ childhoods) is how exDH “stole” my reputation. My close friends and a few surprising acquaintances remained supportive, but I still feel diminished by how being the woman who was left and the “she must have been psycho” script has affected others’ perception of me.

PP, rest assured that most women and many men tend to see people and things for who they are. If your exDH is truly as toxic as you say, other people see it, and either empathize with what you must have put up with, or are quietly rooting for your happiness. A good friend of mine was left by her very professionally successful husband (with three young kids, one who was an infant). He and I still work together and are cordial. We say hi and I ask about the kids. But I know the back story of what happened and this guy is a monster. We keep it moving in the workplace because there's no room for drama but trust, everyone knows what's up. Keep your head up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are you and your soon to be exdh? Is there enough money for retirement? Reasons for the gray divorce?
The answers to these questions has implications for whether forgiveness is possible.

53, 3 kids 18,20,22
Financial issues and not enough for retirement but not dire.
He wants more passion and feels we have grown apart.

Yeah, “passion”. If he isn’t already cheating he has prospects lined up.

HAHAHAHA. How many prospects does a pathetic mid-50s guy have?

Lots of them, I fit your description and life has been great since separation. Bonus was discovering I didn’t need cialis like I did when I was married !

Guess what. If you stay with the same partner long enough you will. It is human biology.

But pretend you are some victorious stud if that image makes you feel better.

Others have more lofty personal ambitions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s telling that you are refusing to accept his agency in your relationship…

What do you mean? I understand he needs to be happy but I’m still pissed since I sacrificied a lot.

Let this be a lesson to younger women - do not sacrifice more than you are willing to.

This

And go shopping often

You give women a bad name.

And no amount of shopping can fill deep sadness. Spend your money on therapy PP—you sound bitter and hollow.

Do both! If you're not divorced yet, spend marital money on a fabulous new wardrobe, perhaps a cosmetic procedure, a new hair style, whatever you need to look and feel confident!

And of course, go to therapy for your mental and emotional health. Also, exercise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are you and your soon to be exdh? Is there enough money for retirement? Reasons for the gray divorce?
The answers to these questions has implications for whether forgiveness is possible.

53, 3 kids 18,20,22
Financial issues and not enough for retirement but not dire.
He wants more passion and feels we have grown apart.

Yeah, “passion”. If he isn’t already cheating he has prospects lined up.

HAHAHAHA. How many prospects does a pathetic mid-50s guy have?

Lots of them, I fit your description and life has been great since separation. Bonus was discovering I didn’t need cialis like I did when I was married !

Guess what. If you stay with the same partner long enough you will. It is human biology.

But pretend you are some victorious stud if that image makes you feel better.

Others have more lofty personal ambitions.

Not a stud, this isn’t about conquest. This is about a man leading an examined life, realizing where his limitations are, conveying them to his partners and living purely for the pursuit of joy. I did the hard years now I’m gonna do the fun ones.
I have a good relationship with my children, their mother and I have treated each other fairly and respectfully, I harbor no ill will and have happily stepped in a number of times as she’s needed me.
I may very well die alone, but I will not die hungry for life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't get mad, get everything- Ivanka Trump

I think that was Ivana. Ivanka isn't divorced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so angry u can barely talk to him

Don’t forgive him, he’s a narcissist. I bet every decision he made over the last 25 years only had to do about him and was for him. He was never a family man or a true father or true husband.

Take time and process this all.

Take the money, talk with the kids- tell the exactly what happened here, then take a 6 month around the world cruise to celebrate and heal.

More psychotic talk. Stop projecting. You don’t know these people. It’s more likely she’s the problem if he filed.

Men file early on if wife is unwell mentally.

Jerk men file gray divorce after the free childcare and housekeeping, to get another young bite at the apple.

And most men don’t marry ever and have children out of wedlock either multiple women. Let’s not forget that 30% contingent!

No man filing a grey divorce wants a new family. He might need to contend with that if he finds a new wife who is in her thirties or something. But usually a man initiating a grey divorce has been done with his wife for legitimate reasons for a long time, especially if she is bitter, angry all the time, is hypercritical or otherwise unpleasant. This goes double if she got fat and/or the bedroom is dead.

This is especially true for good fathers. They stay until the kids are launched and then are ready to live again and they don’t want to spend the rest of their days with a woman who treats them like shit.

So they leave. It’s not that hard to figure out.

No one claims men leave to start a new family, though they often do just that.

They leave because they failed at their marriage with kids, and never wanted to do the work to improve themselves. So hit the Easy Button.

Except, they don't. What's the stat -- 65% to 75% of divorces are initated by women? And among college-educated women, it's 90%? So, your caricature doesn't really square with the data.

A man in that 10% really has to have good reasons and isn't doing it on a whim.

Women generally are more whimsical when it comes to filing. They're more likely to assume the grass is greener and they confuse the man with being the cause of their unhappiness.

You know the old maxim: Men will sacrifice their happiness for their families. Women will sacrifice their families for their happiness.

There is no “old maxim” that says that. Plus it doesn’t even make sense.

Men stay and continue to do nothing when kids are on the scene because they are lazy, avoidant; and busy doing other things (like more work).

Then they muster up an easy, fast boilerplate gray divorce later when all the hard family work is over, courtesy of the spouse. Why? Because they deserve better. Someone to adore them! Enjoy their money with! Companionship! Play holiday time with the adult kids! Easy way out indeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so angry u can barely talk to him

Don’t forgive him, he’s a narcissist. I bet every decision he made over the last 25 years only had to do about him and was for him. He was never a family man or a true father or true husband.

Take time and process this all.

Take the money, talk with the kids- tell the exactly what happened here, then take a 6 month around the world cruise to celebrate and heal.

More psychotic talk. Stop projecting. You don’t know these people. It’s more likely she’s the problem if he filed.

Men file early on if wife is unwell mentally.

Jerk men file gray divorce after the free childcare and housekeeping, to get another young bite at the apple.

And most men don’t marry ever and have children out of wedlock either multiple women. Let’s not forget that 30% contingent!

No man filing a grey divorce wants a new family. He might need to contend with that if he finds a new wife who is in her thirties or something. But usually a man initiating a grey divorce has been done with his wife for legitimate reasons for a long time, especially if she is bitter, angry all the time, is hypercritical or otherwise unpleasant. This goes double if she got fat and/or the bedroom is dead.

This is especially true for good fathers. They stay until the kids are launched and then are ready to live again and they don’t want to spend the rest of their days with a woman who treats them like shit.

So they leave. It’s not that hard to figure out.

No one claims men leave to start a new family, though they often do just that.

They leave because they failed at their marriage with kids, and never wanted to do the work to improve themselves. So hit the Easy Button.

Except, they don't. What's the stat -- 65% to 75% of divorces are initated by women? And among college-educated women, it's 90%? So, your caricature doesn't really square with the data.

A man in that 10% really has to have good reasons and isn't doing it on a whim.

Women generally are more whimsical when it comes to filing. They're more likely to assume the grass is greener and they confuse the man with being the cause of their unhappiness.

You know the old maxim: Men will sacrifice their happiness for their families. Women will sacrifice their families for their happiness.

There is no “old maxim” that says that. Plus it doesn’t even make sense.

Men stay and continue to do nothing when kids are on the scene because they are lazy, avoidant; and busy doing other things (like more work).

Then they muster up an easy, fast boilerplate gray divorce later when all the hard family work is over, courtesy of the spouse. Why? Because they deserve better. Someone to adore them! Enjoy their money with! Companionship! Play holiday time with the adult kids! Easy way out indeed.

The stats say otherwise. They don't leave. And when they do, it's for a very good reason.