Practical differences between AP and IB in FCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP with an IB kid at a poorly regarded school. Not only is she getting a good education, her school's demographics do, in fact, give her an advantage in college admissions, beyond IB. For example, there were significantly more graduating seniors accepted to UVA this year at her school than at higher SES schools, where the fight for just a few spots is super competitive.

I'm not saying IB is all that, or a good fit for everyone, particularly those who struggle with writing. But there are certain types of students who can benefit tremendously from the program. And the fact that IB is typically offered in lower SES schools means that those who thrive in the program have an easier route to top colleges and universities, where they arrive prepared.

The top AP schools get significantly more kids into UVA

If that is true it is once again correlation not causation.

and the kids are better prepared because they’ve spent years with a stronger peer group.

You don't know enough about the "peer groups" to say which is stronger, you're just making things up.

It’s objectively clear which schools have stronger peer groups. It’s not the IB schools.

IB schools in FCPS are frequently under-enrolled, under-performing, and troubled. For example, you can read about the litany of complaints raised to Justice’s new principal this week by unhappy parents.

Our school’s IB teachers (not Justice) seem to delight in repeating to formerly-straight-A students that IB classes are so rigorous that they should “not worry about a B” because of the weighted GPA calculation. 🙄
These teachers are so cavalier about it and it brings such stress to these very bright, overworked students who are trying their best to hit all the benchmarks for college applications, including maintaining a high GPA while enrolled in the most rigorous classes. They seem out of touch with what’s expected by AOs.
Meanwhile, the surrounding AP schools routinely boast that their straight-A students continue to earn As even in their AP classes. In fact, it’s expected. Unlike the “Bs are still a good grade in an IB class, so don’t worry so much” lectures that our concerned IB students get from their teachers, we don’t hear reports of the teachers at AP schools trying to convince their AP students that Bs are exceptional.
This is why “the AP schools” have more success getting students into UVA.
And I’m not suggesting that it’s grade inflation in the part of the AP schools. It’s more like a strange pride in grade deflation on the part of IB teachers/departments at certain fcps IB schools.
And it is not isolated students or just my precious snowflake. This is across the board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Each program has its strengths. The IB parents in Fairfax tend to try and over-compensate for the fact that their schools are lower-performing overall by exaggerating the benefits of IB. That’s why we invariably hear the entirely false assertions that AP is only about rote memorization, whereas IB teaches critical thinking skills and gives kids an advantage in college admissions. It’s laughable but also somewhat understandable when you put it in context.

This is so true.

People want to justify the choices they made for their kids, but the mental gymnastics is getting out of control. The critical thinking problem solving bit is the most ridiculous of all. Have they measured the critical thinking of the students to know? And how?

Agree that it doesn’t confer an advantage to college admissions compared to AP, although it’s stated in every IB thread as a fact. If anything, it will sometimes hurt the high performing kids, because the program is too rigid and lacks flexibility.

There’s a lot of buyer’s regret when people realize they are zoned for an IB school and that 80-98% of the kids at those schools don’t get IB diplomas. Meanwhile the AP schools offer a more flexible curriculum without all the rhetoric about creating “global citizens,” “life-long learners,” etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In practical terms one can compare the course load for the different options for 11th and 12th grades. Hypothetical example.

IB:
HL Math, HL English, HL Physics
SL Spanish, SL History, SL Art
Plus the fluff ToK, CAS, EE

AP
Math: Calculus BC, Statistics
English: Language, Literature
Science: Physics C, Chemistry
Social sciences: USH, EH, or other choices
Foreign language: any AP would satisfy major req.
Whatever electives.

It’s quite clear which one is more rigorous, it’s not even close.

Clear because you don’t understand it??
You list six IB courses, but each of those is two years of in-depth study.
AP goes broad and has more options because most are one-year general overview courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP with an IB kid at a poorly regarded school. Not only is she getting a good education, her school's demographics do, in fact, give her an advantage in college admissions, beyond IB. For example, there were significantly more graduating seniors accepted to UVA this year at her school than at higher SES schools, where the fight for just a few spots is super competitive.

I'm not saying IB is all that, or a good fit for everyone, particularly those who struggle with writing. But there are certain types of students who can benefit tremendously from the program. And the fact that IB is typically offered in lower SES schools means that those who thrive in the program have an easier route to top colleges and universities, where they arrive prepared.

The top AP schools get significantly more kids into UVA and the kids are better prepared because they’ve spent years with a stronger peer group.

Can you break down for us what a “stronger peer group” means? So like my kid is in AAP in MS but her MS splits into different high schools…AP and IB. Where they go is determined by address. Are the AAP IB kids all of a sudden going to not be academically oriented? I’m trying to follow your logic. Unless strong peer group is just code for less poor and/or brown kids?

What schools are you talking about? Usually you have a choice, the strong kids are more likely to go for AP than IB.

No need to gratuitously accuse people of racism.

No you don’t usually have a choice. It’s usually either AP or IB.

+1
I feel like the prior poster must not be in fcps—otherwise they would know that schools in FCPS don’t offer both AP *and* IB at one school. You do t get to choose unless you apply for a transfer.
Our school is IB and the three nearest high schools that offer AP are closed to transfers.
Sometimes you get what you get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In practical terms one can compare the course load for the different options for 11th and 12th grades. Hypothetical example.

IB:
HL Math, HL English, HL Physics
SL Spanish, SL History, SL Art
Plus the fluff ToK, CAS, EE

AP
Math: Calculus BC, Statistics
English: Language, Literature
Science: Physics C, Chemistry
Social sciences: USH, EH, or other choices
Foreign language: any AP would satisfy major req.
Whatever electives.

It’s quite clear which one is more rigorous, it’s not even close.

Clear because you don’t understand it??
You list six IB courses, but each of those is two years of in-depth study.
AP goes broad and has more options because most are one-year general overview courses.

Actually you’re wrong about this one, and it really is a pattern of IB cheerleaders presenting fake facts as truth. One of the issues I have with IB is that some of their two year classes like HL Math don’t even come close to teaching the advanced material covered in AP Calculus BC. Look up what’s taught in the class don’t go after how much time it takes. HL Math is really a mix of Algebra, Precalculus, and a bit of Calculus and very little Statistics. Colleges give less credit to the two year HL Math than to the one year AP Calculus BC for that reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Each program has its strengths. The IB parents in Fairfax tend to try and over-compensate for the fact that their schools are lower-performing overall by exaggerating the benefits of IB. That’s why we invariably hear the entirely false assertions that AP is only about rote memorization, whereas IB teaches critical thinking skills and gives kids an advantage in college admissions. It’s laughable but also somewhat understandable when you put it in context.

This is so true.

People want to justify the choices they made for their kids, but the mental gymnastics is getting out of control. The critical thinking problem solving bit is the most ridiculous of all. Have they measured the critical thinking of the students to know? And how?

Agree that it doesn’t confer an advantage to college admissions compared to AP, although it’s stated in every IB thread as a fact. If anything, it will sometimes hurt the high performing kids, because the program is too rigid and lacks flexibility.

There’s a lot of buyer’s regret when people realize they are zoned for an IB school and that 80-98% of the kids at those schools don’t get IB diplomas. Meanwhile the AP schools offer a more flexible curriculum without all the rhetoric about creating “global citizens,” “life-long learners,” etc.

That’s unbelievable. Is there a stat that shows FCPS schools with only 2% obtaining the IB diploma? I would hope at least half of the IB students get the diploma, and I think that is being generous. Otherwise just make it a magnet program for a small cohort within a regular high school. The IB diploma rates should then skyrocket for that small cohort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Each program has its strengths. The IB parents in Fairfax tend to try and over-compensate for the fact that their schools are lower-performing overall by exaggerating the benefits of IB. That’s why we invariably hear the entirely false assertions that AP is only about rote memorization, whereas IB teaches critical thinking skills and gives kids an advantage in college admissions. It’s laughable but also somewhat understandable when you put it in context.

This is so true.

People want to justify the choices they made for their kids, but the mental gymnastics is getting out of control. The critical thinking problem solving bit is the most ridiculous of all. Have they measured the critical thinking of the students to know? And how?

Agree that it doesn’t confer an advantage to college admissions compared to AP, although it’s stated in every IB thread as a fact. If anything, it will sometimes hurt the high performing kids, because the program is too rigid and lacks flexibility.

There’s a lot of buyer’s regret when people realize they are zoned for an IB school and that 80-98% of the kids at those schools don’t get IB diplomas. Meanwhile the AP schools offer a more flexible curriculum without all the rhetoric about creating “global citizens,” “life-long learners,” etc.

If your kid is too dumb and lazy to get an IB diploma then he will also be too dumb and lazy to succeed at an AP school. The kids at IB schools who do not do IB would not take advantage of that "flexible AP curriculum" if the school offered it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP with an IB kid at a poorly regarded school. Not only is she getting a good education, her school's demographics do, in fact, give her an advantage in college admissions, beyond IB. For example, there were significantly more graduating seniors accepted to UVA this year at her school than at higher SES schools, where the fight for just a few spots is super competitive.

I'm not saying IB is all that, or a good fit for everyone, particularly those who struggle with writing. But there are certain types of students who can benefit tremendously from the program. And the fact that IB is typically offered in lower SES schools means that those who thrive in the program have an easier route to top colleges and universities, where they arrive prepared.

The top AP schools get significantly more kids into UVA

If that is true it is once again correlation not causation.

and the kids are better prepared because they’ve spent years with a stronger peer group.

You don't know enough about the "peer groups" to say which is stronger, you're just making things up.

It’s objectively clear which schools have stronger peer groups. It’s not the IB schools.

IB schools in FCPS are frequently under-enrolled, under-performing, and troubled. For example, you can read about the litany of complaints raised to Justice’s new principal this week by unhappy parents.

Our school’s IB teachers (not Justice) seem to delight in repeating to formerly-straight-A students that IB classes are so rigorous that they should “not worry about a B” because of the weighted GPA calculation. 🙄
These teachers are so cavalier about it and it brings such stress to these very bright, overworked students who are trying their best to hit all the benchmarks for college applications, including maintaining a high GPA while enrolled in the most rigorous classes. They seem out of touch with what’s expected by AOs.
Meanwhile, the surrounding AP schools routinely boast that their straight-A students continue to earn As even in their AP classes. In fact, it’s expected. Unlike the “Bs are still a good grade in an IB class, so don’t worry so much” lectures that our concerned IB students get from their teachers, we don’t hear reports of the teachers at AP schools trying to convince their AP students that Bs are exceptional.
This is why “the AP schools” have more success getting students into UVA.
And I’m not suggesting that it’s grade inflation in the part of the AP schools. It’s more like a strange pride in grade deflation on the part of IB teachers/departments at certain fcps IB schools.
And it is not isolated students or just my precious snowflake. This is across the board.

Our school’s IB teachers (not Justice) never say anything of the sort. Nor have I seen any teachers cavalierly determined to give mostly Bs. I'm very doubtful that this is a widespread attitude in IB schools.

The AP schools "have more success getting students into UVA" due to selection effect not anything great the AP schools are doing. I expect you would find that the UVA admission success rate of IB program students (not of students in the IB school writ large) is comparable to that of the AP schools. Certainly I personally know a number of IB kids who got into UVA and VT engineering this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Each program has its strengths. The IB parents in Fairfax tend to try and over-compensate for the fact that their schools are lower-performing overall by exaggerating the benefits of IB. That’s why we invariably hear the entirely false assertions that AP is only about rote memorization, whereas IB teaches critical thinking skills and gives kids an advantage in college admissions. It’s laughable but also somewhat understandable when you put it in context.

This is so true.

People want to justify the choices they made for their kids, but the mental gymnastics is getting out of control. The critical thinking problem solving bit is the most ridiculous of all. Have they measured the critical thinking of the students to know? And how?

Agree that it doesn’t confer an advantage to college admissions compared to AP, although it’s stated in every IB thread as a fact. If anything, it will sometimes hurt the high performing kids, because the program is too rigid and lacks flexibility.

There’s a lot of buyer’s regret when people realize they are zoned for an IB school and that 80-98% of the kids at those schools don’t get IB diplomas. Meanwhile the AP schools offer a more flexible curriculum without all the rhetoric about creating “global citizens,” “life-long learners,” etc.

If your kid is too dumb and lazy to get an IB diploma then he will also be too dumb and lazy to succeed at an AP school. The kids at IB schools who do not do IB would not take advantage of that "flexible AP curriculum" if the school offered it.

IB is not a good fit for the top students that want to take more coursework in one area, and it’s not good for the students that should only take a few advanced courses in high school. Those students would benefit more from the a la carte AP curriculum which is better aligned with community colleges and universities. IB is one size fits all and is failing at the upper and lower tiers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Each program has its strengths. The IB parents in Fairfax tend to try and over-compensate for the fact that their schools are lower-performing overall by exaggerating the benefits of IB. That’s why we invariably hear the entirely false assertions that AP is only about rote memorization, whereas IB teaches critical thinking skills and gives kids an advantage in college admissions. It’s laughable but also somewhat understandable when you put it in context.

This is so true.

People want to justify the choices they made for their kids, but the mental gymnastics is getting out of control. The critical thinking problem solving bit is the most ridiculous of all. Have they measured the critical thinking of the students to know? And how?

Agree that it doesn’t confer an advantage to college admissions compared to AP, although it’s stated in every IB thread as a fact. If anything, it will sometimes hurt the high performing kids, because the program is too rigid and lacks flexibility.

There’s a lot of buyer’s regret when people realize they are zoned for an IB school and that 80-98% of the kids at those schools don’t get IB diplomas. Meanwhile the AP schools offer a more flexible curriculum without all the rhetoric about creating “global citizens,” “life-long learners,” etc.

If your kid is too dumb and lazy to get an IB diploma then he will also be too dumb and lazy to succeed at an AP school. The kids at IB schools who do not do IB would not take advantage of that "flexible AP curriculum" if the school offered it.

IB is not a good fit for the top students that want to take more coursework in one area, and it’s not good for the students that should only take a few advanced courses in high school. Those students would benefit more from the a la carte AP curriculum which is better aligned with community colleges and universities. IB is one size fits all and is failing at the upper and lower tiers.

I am embarrassed for you that you don't understand that kids at IB schools who you think "should" only take a few advanced courses in high school already have the option to do that. IB is not "all or nothing". You can take IB classes "a la carte" just like AP classes. You are not obligated to pursue the diploma program.

"the a la carte AP curriculum which is better aligned with community colleges and universities" - what AP kid is going to a community college, what are you blathering about here?

"IB is one size fits all and is failing at the upper and lower tiers" - IB is not one size fits all, is not failing at the upper tiers (the kids capable of advanced work get IB diplomas and are well prepared for college), and is not failing at the lower tiers (the kids who are not capable of completing the diploma program can still take some of the courses and benefit from them).

Why do people talk when they are so profoundly ignorant?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Each program has its strengths. The IB parents in Fairfax tend to try and over-compensate for the fact that their schools are lower-performing overall by exaggerating the benefits of IB. That’s why we invariably hear the entirely false assertions that AP is only about rote memorization, whereas IB teaches critical thinking skills and gives kids an advantage in college admissions. It’s laughable but also somewhat understandable when you put it in context.

This is so true.

People want to justify the choices they made for their kids, but the mental gymnastics is getting out of control. The critical thinking problem solving bit is the most ridiculous of all. Have they measured the critical thinking of the students to know? And how?

Agree that it doesn’t confer an advantage to college admissions compared to AP, although it’s stated in every IB thread as a fact. If anything, it will sometimes hurt the high performing kids, because the program is too rigid and lacks flexibility.

There’s a lot of buyer’s regret when people realize they are zoned for an IB school and that 80-98% of the kids at those schools don’t get IB diplomas. Meanwhile the AP schools offer a more flexible curriculum without all the rhetoric about creating “global citizens,” “life-long learners,” etc.

If your kid is too dumb and lazy to get an IB diploma then he will also be too dumb and lazy to succeed at an AP school. The kids at IB schools who do not do IB would not take advantage of that "flexible AP curriculum" if the school offered it.

IB is not a good fit for the top students that want to take more coursework in one area, and it’s not good for the students that should only take a few advanced courses in high school. Those students would benefit more from the a la carte AP curriculum which is better aligned with community colleges and universities. IB is one size fits all and is failing at the upper and lower tiers.

I am embarrassed for you that you don't understand that kids at IB schools who you think "should" only take a few advanced courses in high school already have the option to do that. IB is not "all or nothing". You can take IB classes "a la carte" just like AP classes. You are not obligated to pursue the diploma program.

"the a la carte AP curriculum which is better aligned with community colleges and universities" - what AP kid is going to a community college, what are you blathering about here?

"IB is one size fits all and is failing at the upper and lower tiers" - IB is not one size fits all, is not failing at the upper tiers (the kids capable of advanced work get IB diplomas and are well prepared for college), and is not failing at the lower tiers (the kids who are not capable of completing the diploma program can still take some of the courses and benefit from them).

Why do people talk when they are so profoundly ignorant?

DP. You're the ignorant one. The IBO program was designed with the IB diploma specifically in mind as the intended goal. Unfortunately, it failed at achieving that goal at most schools where it was implemented, so there was a pivot to emphasizing that kids could just take individual IB courses.

The IB diploma rate in FCPS is a joke. They should scrap the entire program or create one IB school where every kid is committed to obtaining an IB diploma. Otherwise it's just a wasteful and inefficient program that gets propped up because a few noisy parents think it made their own kids special snowflakes (even when they are ultimately no better situated in terms of college prep or admissions than AP students).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Each program has its strengths. The IB parents in Fairfax tend to try and over-compensate for the fact that their schools are lower-performing overall by exaggerating the benefits of IB. That’s why we invariably hear the entirely false assertions that AP is only about rote memorization, whereas IB teaches critical thinking skills and gives kids an advantage in college admissions. It’s laughable but also somewhat understandable when you put it in context.

This is so true.

People want to justify the choices they made for their kids, but the mental gymnastics is getting out of control. The critical thinking problem solving bit is the most ridiculous of all. Have they measured the critical thinking of the students to know? And how?

Agree that it doesn’t confer an advantage to college admissions compared to AP, although it’s stated in every IB thread as a fact. If anything, it will sometimes hurt the high performing kids, because the program is too rigid and lacks flexibility.

There’s a lot of buyer’s regret when people realize they are zoned for an IB school and that 80-98% of the kids at those schools don’t get IB diplomas. Meanwhile the AP schools offer a more flexible curriculum without all the rhetoric about creating “global citizens,” “life-long learners,” etc.

If your kid is too dumb and lazy to get an IB diploma then he will also be too dumb and lazy to succeed at an AP school. The kids at IB schools who do not do IB would not take advantage of that "flexible AP curriculum" if the school offered it.

IB is not a good fit for the top students that want to take more coursework in one area, and it’s not good for the students that should only take a few advanced courses in high school. Those students would benefit more from the a la carte AP curriculum which is better aligned with community colleges and universities. IB is one size fits all and is failing at the upper and lower tiers.

I am embarrassed for you that you don't understand that kids at IB schools who you think "should" only take a few advanced courses in high school already have the option to do that. IB is not "all or nothing". You can take IB classes "a la carte" just like AP classes. You are not obligated to pursue the diploma program.

"the a la carte AP curriculum which is better aligned with community colleges and universities" - what AP kid is going to a community college, what are you blathering about here?

"IB is one size fits all and is failing at the upper and lower tiers" - IB is not one size fits all, is not failing at the upper tiers (the kids capable of advanced work get IB diplomas and are well prepared for college), and is not failing at the lower tiers (the kids who are not capable of completing the diploma program can still take some of the courses and benefit from them).

Why do people talk when they are so profoundly ignorant?

IBD absolutely limits the very top students that want to take more coursework in a certain area because of course availability and limits on HL courses one can take. A student in the IBDP can’t drop foreign language to take Multivariable instead.

You must live in a bubble if you don’t think there are students going to community college after taking APs. Some because they don’t do well, some for financial reasons, it’s ridiculous to say they don’t exist, sorry but you’re the ignorant here. IB SL classes won’t get you any credit at our local CC, that should tell you a lot about how rigorous they are. Lower tier students would be much better off taking dual enrollment than IB, because the goal is removing the barrier of transitioning them into college.

Theory of knowledge, CAS are useless in general for top and struggling students which would be far better served focusing on real classes, not pretentious fluff.

IB is akin to trinket label for parents that want to believe their kid is special. It isn’t, but let them feel good about themselves. But when you’re inflicting IB over an entire school, then you just don’t have the students best interest in mind. When people have a choice it’s clear which way they go.

[Anonymous]

Many of the features of the IB program are not very useful.

There’s no tangible benefit to getting the IB diploma, literally nobody cares except for bragging rights.

There’s no benefit in taking the IB specific classes like Theory of Knowledge, and CAS. Just take a real class and do real extracurriculars instead.

SL classes are not advanced coursework, they are just like regular or honors classes.

The two year HL classes move too slow compared to the one year APs, and go in less depth.

When it comes to advantages we only hear about critical thinking problem solving global citizen, because there’s nothing better they can come up with.

[Anonymous]

You all are still bickering and I’m not sure OP
has even come back.

[Anonymous]

It’s ok, we do it for the benefit of the public, IB misinformation is still rampant.