Practical differences between AP and IB in FCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all are still bickering and I’m not sure OP
has even come back.

🤣 OP here. I've been reading but this thread is...a lot

I'm not sure what else to ask other than: why do people keep mentioning the inability to do IB and take extra curriculars. I'm big on the idea that kids should have well rounded school experiences. Is the extra coursework in IB problems so great that kids can't have outside activities. That doesn't sound like a great trade off but I could be misunderstanding.

Most AP parents know very little about IB and resort to criticizing it. I haven't read every single comment here but from quickly skimming the thread I didn't see any mention of the IB Program's built-in CAS (Creativity, Activity, Service) project.

The CAS project is a requirement for the IB Diploma existing precisely for kids to explore extracurriculars of interest at a broad level. They create a documented portfolio of experiences during junior and senior years as they engage in activities across three categories. As you can see CAS is quite flexible to meet the needs of any type of kid - Creative/artistic, Activity/athletic, or Service/community involvement. Culminating in a long-term, open-ended project of their choosing.

Of course, as with anything, kids get out of it what they put in. Some anti-IB folks will call this kind of thing fluff and a waste of time. I've seen some excellent projects and some low-effort ones. But if taken seriously, it's a great opportunity for kids to accomplish something meaningful to them and goes beyond grades and academics.

If it a required part of the IB diploma curriculum, then it’s not really an extracurricular, isn’t it?

Agree with the previous poster that CAS sucks out any joy of doing something outside the school that you have a passion for.

I’m amazed at the extent at which IB cheerleaders will go to spin every crappy feature of the program into something amazing, all while assuming every is too dumb to see right through it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

AP has more offerings/is better known for science classes and math classes. So it's more likely to capture the typical high stats, advanced in math kids. The effect isn't created after going through the curriculum, it's a result of what type of kid chooses what curriculum for high school.

IB is much more liberal-artsy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

AP has more offerings/is better known for science classes and math classes. So it's more likely to capture the typical high stats, advanced in math kids. The effect isn't created after going through the curriculum, it's a result of what type of kid chooses what curriculum for high school.

IB is much more liberal-artsy.

Aren’t those the richest schools in the county? I would think it has more to do with income vs program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

AP has more offerings/is better known for science classes and math classes. So it's more likely to capture the typical high stats, advanced in math kids. The effect isn't created after going through the curriculum, it's a result of what type of kid chooses what curriculum for high school.

IB is much more liberal-artsy.

If students are assigned randomly at AP and IB schools and AP kids outperform IB ones, then you can conclude it’s the curriculum that’s causing the lower performance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all are still bickering and I’m not sure OP
has even come back.

🤣 OP here. I've been reading but this thread is...a lot

I'm not sure what else to ask other than: why do people keep mentioning the inability to do IB and take extra curriculars. I'm big on the idea that kids should have well rounded school experiences. Is the extra coursework in IB problems so great that kids can't have outside activities. That doesn't sound like a great trade off but I could be misunderstanding.

Most AP parents know very little about IB and resort to criticizing it. I haven't read every single comment here but from quickly skimming the thread I didn't see any mention of the IB Program's built-in CAS (Creativity, Activity, Service) project.

The CAS project is a requirement for the IB Diploma existing precisely for kids to explore extracurriculars of interest at a broad level. They create a documented portfolio of experiences during junior and senior years as they engage in activities across three categories. As you can see CAS is quite flexible to meet the needs of any type of kid - Creative/artistic, Activity/athletic, or Service/community involvement. Culminating in a long-term, open-ended project of their choosing.

Of course, as with anything, kids get out of it what they put in. Some anti-IB folks will call this kind of thing fluff and a waste of time. I've seen some excellent projects and some low-effort ones. But if taken seriously, it's a great opportunity for kids to accomplish something meaningful to them and goes beyond grades and academics.

There is nothing like turning the joy and freedom of an extracurricular activity, and turning it into a giant, regimented, graded writing assignment.

On what planet is that considered a great idea?

Sorry but that's very much an attitude and perspective issue on your part. CAS is simply an opportunity to document a passion project (ifa kid has one - admittedly not all kids do) while being given support, networking, and mentorship resources through the school as needed.

As said previously, kids get what they put in. Most kids will see it as a chore and do fluff for it. That's fine, it's an easy way out anyway. But some kids seize it and accomplish significant service for their community, and they're the ones rewarded with acceptance to the Ivies. I've seen Habitat for Humanity abroad, getting involved at the Smithsonian museums, and a musical performance set up for a community event where they first tutored young kids how to play their instruments.

Not everything should be interpreted as an annoying assignment just to check the box. With that attitude, doesn't matter if it's AP or IB or college or work, you'll just be looking to check boxes in everything you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all are still bickering and I’m not sure OP
has even come back.

🤣 OP here. I've been reading but this thread is...a lot

I'm not sure what else to ask other than: why do people keep mentioning the inability to do IB and take extra curriculars. I'm big on the idea that kids should have well rounded school experiences. Is the extra coursework in IB problems so great that kids can't have outside activities. That doesn't sound like a great trade off but I could be misunderstanding.

Most AP parents know very little about IB and resort to criticizing it. I haven't read every single comment here but from quickly skimming the thread I didn't see any mention of the IB Program's built-in CAS (Creativity, Activity, Service) project.

The CAS project is a requirement for the IB Diploma existing precisely for kids to explore extracurriculars of interest at a broad level. They create a documented portfolio of experiences during junior and senior years as they engage in activities across three categories. As you can see CAS is quite flexible to meet the needs of any type of kid - Creative/artistic, Activity/athletic, or Service/community involvement. Culminating in a long-term, open-ended project of their choosing.

Of course, as with anything, kids get out of it what they put in. Some anti-IB folks will call this kind of thing fluff and a waste of time. I've seen some excellent projects and some low-effort ones. But if taken seriously, it's a great opportunity for kids to accomplish something meaningful to them and goes beyond grades and academics.

There is nothing like turning the joy and freedom of an extracurricular activity, and turning it into a giant, regimented, graded writing assignment.

On what planet is that considered a great idea?

Sorry but that's very much an attitude and perspective issue on your part. CAS is simply an opportunity to document a passion project (ifa kid has one - admittedly not all kids do) while being given support, networking, and mentorship resources through the school as needed.

As said previously, kids get what they put in. Most kids will see it as a chore and do fluff for it. That's fine, it's an easy way out anyway. But some kids seize it and accomplish significant service for their community, and they're the ones rewarded with acceptance to the Ivies. I've seen Habitat for Humanity abroad, getting involved at the Smithsonian museums, and a musical performance set up for a community event where they first tutored young kids how to play their instruments.

Not everything should be interpreted as an annoying assignment just to check the box. With that attitude, doesn't matter if it's AP or IB or college or work, you'll just be looking to check boxes in everything you do.

In both cases the IB program has nothing to do with the substance of the activity. The first one only happens because of Habitat for Humanity. The musical performance is the result of investing time in an actual extracurricular.

The IB part is just checking the box, these students would do it regardless, and there’s nothing that IB does to support them in their extracurriculars. Then you’re turning around and claim the credit for CAS. Seems quite dishonest to me. Curious to know where your perspective comes from, you don’t seem to be a student or a parent so maybe an administrator? That would explain the shameless plug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all are still bickering and I’m not sure OP
has even come back.

🤣 OP here. I've been reading but this thread is...a lot

I'm not sure what else to ask other than: why do people keep mentioning the inability to do IB and take extra curriculars. I'm big on the idea that kids should have well rounded school experiences. Is the extra coursework in IB problems so great that kids can't have outside activities. That doesn't sound like a great trade off but I could be misunderstanding.

Most AP parents know very little about IB and resort to criticizing it. I haven't read every single comment here but from quickly skimming the thread I didn't see any mention of the IB Program's built-in CAS (Creativity, Activity, Service) project.

The CAS project is a requirement for the IB Diploma existing precisely for kids to explore extracurriculars of interest at a broad level. They create a documented portfolio of experiences during junior and senior years as they engage in activities across three categories. As you can see CAS is quite flexible to meet the needs of any type of kid - Creative/artistic, Activity/athletic, or Service/community involvement. Culminating in a long-term, open-ended project of their choosing.

Of course, as with anything, kids get out of it what they put in. Some anti-IB folks will call this kind of thing fluff and a waste of time. I've seen some excellent projects and some low-effort ones. But if taken seriously, it's a great opportunity for kids to accomplish something meaningful to them and goes beyond grades and academics.

There is nothing like turning the joy and freedom of an extracurricular activity, and turning it into a giant, regimented, graded writing assignment.

On what planet is that considered a great idea?

Sorry but that's very much an attitude and perspective issue on your part. CAS is simply an opportunity to document a passion project (ifa kid has one - admittedly not all kids do) while being given support, networking, and mentorship resources through the school as needed.

As said previously, kids get what they put in. Most kids will see it as a chore and do fluff for it. That's fine, it's an easy way out anyway. But some kids seize it and accomplish significant service for their community, and they're the ones rewarded with acceptance to the Ivies. I've seen Habitat for Humanity abroad, getting involved at the Smithsonian museums, and a musical performance set up for a community event where they first tutored young kids how to play their instruments.

Not everything should be interpreted as an annoying assignment just to check the box. With that attitude, doesn't matter if it's AP or IB or college or work, you'll just be looking to check boxes in everything you do.

CAS is incredibly pointless. If students have a passion project, why document it and even more important, why assign a grade? There’s very little support the school provides and in the end it will favor the students from families with lots of resources. This is so elitist, at least AP seems more egalitarian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all are still bickering and I’m not sure OP
has even come back.

🤣 OP here. I've been reading but this thread is...a lot

I'm not sure what else to ask other than: why do people keep mentioning the inability to do IB and take extra curriculars. I'm big on the idea that kids should have well rounded school experiences. Is the extra coursework in IB problems so great that kids can't have outside activities. That doesn't sound like a great trade off but I could be misunderstanding.

Most AP parents know very little about IB and resort to criticizing it. I haven't read every single comment here but from quickly skimming the thread I didn't see any mention of the IB Program's built-in CAS (Creativity, Activity, Service) project.

The CAS project is a requirement for the IB Diploma existing precisely for kids to explore extracurriculars of interest at a broad level. They create a documented portfolio of experiences during junior and senior years as they engage in activities across three categories. As you can see CAS is quite flexible to meet the needs of any type of kid - Creative/artistic, Activity/athletic, or Service/community involvement. Culminating in a long-term, open-ended project of their choosing.

Of course, as with anything, kids get out of it what they put in. Some anti-IB folks will call this kind of thing fluff and a waste of time. I've seen some excellent projects and some low-effort ones. But if taken seriously, it's a great opportunity for kids to accomplish something meaningful to them and goes beyond grades and academics.

There is nothing like turning the joy and freedom of an extracurricular activity, and turning it into a giant, regimented, graded writing assignment.

On what planet is that considered a great idea?

Sorry but that's very much an attitude and perspective issue on your part. CAS is simply an opportunity to document a passion project (ifa kid has one - admittedly not all kids do) while being given support, networking, and mentorship resources through the school as needed.

As said previously, kids get what they put in. Most kids will see it as a chore and do fluff for it. That's fine, it's an easy way out anyway. But some kids seize it and accomplish significant service for their community, and they're the ones rewarded with acceptance to the Ivies. I've seen Habitat for Humanity abroad, getting involved at the Smithsonian museums, and a musical performance set up for a community event where they first tutored young kids how to play their instruments.

Not everything should be interpreted as an annoying assignment just to check the box. With that attitude, doesn't matter if it's AP or IB or college or work, you'll just be looking to check boxes in everything you do.

CAS is incredibly pointless. If students have a passion project, why document it and even more important, why assign a grade? There’s very little support the school provides and in the end it will favor the students from families with lots of resources. This is so elitist, at least AP seems more egalitarian.

Np. From personal experience, having been both, a student from a poor family and an IB student, it’s not elitist.

The ideas pp posted make it seem that way, but there are so many other options that don’t necessitate family resources. And, in fact, as one of the students who “seized” the opportunity, pp is spot on. It was a great experience, and in some ways, life changing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it easier to enroll students into IB but not AP courses, especially at underperforming FCPS schools? Is IB program less rigorous or does it come with adjustable rigor to fit the caliber of student cohort?

IB classes come in two flavors, one is High Level comparable with AP, the other Standard Level comparable with a regular class, and generally don’t get you any college credit. A weaker student could take an SL class a la carte, but I can’t imagine why that would be beneficial in any way.

Because they would learn things they would not learn in any other class, particularly the "vanilla" (non-honors/AP/IB) classes. Good God you are stupid.

You really are dumb.

SL are most definitely non college level classes. There’s no reason to take SL classes if the other option is the AP equivalent. If the student can’t handle the AP class, even dual enrollment would be more beneficial than the SL class, because at the end of the day you get some advanced coursework and college credit under your belt.

Just to humor you, let’s say you take SL Math instead of regular Precalculus, how is the SL class better? It’s a confusing hodgepodge of algebra, geometry, precalculus, statistics, and calculus that’s very superficial across all topics and it will cover everything from simple stuff like linear and quadratic equations all the way to derivatives and integrals in the time span of one school year. It’s so shallow that it’s relying heavily on memorization, so it’s going to be disastrous for the kids taking the class. They’d be much better off with the “vanilla” precalculus that at least in the precalculus topics will go much deeper than the SL class. IB curriculum is actually terrible when you look into what’s in the syllabus.

some schools weigh IB SL classes out of 4.5, some weight them out of 5.0, so that's a reason to take the SL over regular/honors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well in Vienna where I’ve lived for a long time, IB and AAP is a gateway to school choice AKA gaming the system to get your DC to onto a preferred varsity team. Select Marshall for IB if you want your DC to have an easier chance of making the team. Do not tell anyone this.

Madison is AAP and now known as a “sports school” so chose wisely.

How does IB help with sports?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

AP has more offerings/is better known for science classes and math classes. So it's more likely to capture the typical high stats, advanced in math kids. The effect isn't created after going through the curriculum, it's a result of what type of kid chooses what curriculum for high school.

IB is much more liberal-artsy.

If students are assigned randomly at AP and IB schools and AP kids outperform IB ones, then you can conclude it’s the curriculum that’s causing the lower performance.

But the students are not assigned randomly, are they?

Good point whoever brought up school catchment area HHI, that obviously could impact it.

I'm from out of state. The top-ranked schools where I'm from are magnet IBs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all are still bickering and I’m not sure OP
has even come back.

🤣 OP here. I've been reading but this thread is...a lot

I'm not sure what else to ask other than: why do people keep mentioning the inability to do IB and take extra curriculars. I'm big on the idea that kids should have well rounded school experiences. Is the extra coursework in IB problems so great that kids can't have outside activities. That doesn't sound like a great trade off but I could be misunderstanding.

Most AP parents know very little about IB and resort to criticizing it. I haven't read every single comment here but from quickly skimming the thread I didn't see any mention of the IB Program's built-in CAS (Creativity, Activity, Service) project.

The CAS project is a requirement for the IB Diploma existing precisely for kids to explore extracurriculars of interest at a broad level. They create a documented portfolio of experiences during junior and senior years as they engage in activities across three categories. As you can see CAS is quite flexible to meet the needs of any type of kid - Creative/artistic, Activity/athletic, or Service/community involvement. Culminating in a long-term, open-ended project of their choosing.

Of course, as with anything, kids get out of it what they put in. Some anti-IB folks will call this kind of thing fluff and a waste of time. I've seen some excellent projects and some low-effort ones. But if taken seriously, it's a great opportunity for kids to accomplish something meaningful to them and goes beyond grades and academics.

There is nothing like turning the joy and freedom of an extracurricular activity, and turning it into a giant, regimented, graded writing assignment.

On what planet is that considered a great idea?

Sorry but that's very much an attitude and perspective issue on your part. CAS is simply an opportunity to document a passion project (ifa kid has one - admittedly not all kids do) while being given support, networking, and mentorship resources through the school as needed.

As said previously, kids get what they put in. Most kids will see it as a chore and do fluff for it. That's fine, it's an easy way out anyway. But some kids seize it and accomplish significant service for their community, and they're the ones rewarded with acceptance to the Ivies. I've seen Habitat for Humanity abroad, getting involved at the Smithsonian museums, and a musical performance set up for a community event where they first tutored young kids how to play their instruments.

Not everything should be interpreted as an annoying assignment just to check the box. With that attitude, doesn't matter if it's AP or IB or college or work, you'll just be looking to check boxes in everything you do.

CAS is incredibly pointless. If students have a passion project, why document it and even more important, why assign a grade? There’s very little support the school provides and in the end it will favor the students from families with lots of resources. This is so elitist, at least AP seems more egalitarian.

Np. From personal experience, having been both, a student from a poor family and an IB student, it’s not elitist.

The ideas pp posted make it seem that way, but there are so many other options that don’t necessitate family resources. And, in fact, as one of the students who “seized” the opportunity, pp is spot on. It was a great experience, and in some ways, life changing.

How did the IB CAS help in your case, specifically? Apparently it was so great that it changed your life, but omit to to say what exactly it was. Seems like a made up point.

In our experience the school is not supporting its students in any way, there’s only a coordinator that takes in the write up of the activities. Why grade them? The quality of outside of school extracurriculars will correlate strongly with family income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it easier to enroll students into IB but not AP courses, especially at underperforming FCPS schools? Is IB program less rigorous or does it come with adjustable rigor to fit the caliber of student cohort?

IB classes come in two flavors, one is High Level comparable with AP, the other Standard Level comparable with a regular class, and generally don’t get you any college credit. A weaker student could take an SL class a la carte, but I can’t imagine why that would be beneficial in any way.

Because they would learn things they would not learn in any other class, particularly the "vanilla" (non-honors/AP/IB) classes. Good God you are stupid.

You really are dumb.

SL are most definitely non college level classes. There’s no reason to take SL classes if the other option is the AP equivalent. If the student can’t handle the AP class, even dual enrollment would be more beneficial than the SL class, because at the end of the day you get some advanced coursework and college credit under your belt.

Just to humor you, let’s say you take SL Math instead of regular Precalculus, how is the SL class better? It’s a confusing hodgepodge of algebra, geometry, precalculus, statistics, and calculus that’s very superficial across all topics and it will cover everything from simple stuff like linear and quadratic equations all the way to derivatives and integrals in the time span of one school year. It’s so shallow that it’s relying heavily on memorization, so it’s going to be disastrous for the kids taking the class. They’d be much better off with the “vanilla” precalculus that at least in the precalculus topics will go much deeper than the SL class. IB curriculum is actually terrible when you look into what’s in the syllabus.

some schools weigh IB SL classes out of 4.5, some weight them out of 5.0, so that's a reason to take the SL over regular/honors

If the gpa boost is the goal, it’s better to take AP or HL in a subject the student is capable. If that particular area is not a strong suit, then it makes more sense to take a regular class then save the time and effort for another AP.

IB curriculum in math and sciences is not very good and it is even worse in SL. Math SL in particular is disastrous because it covers topics from algebra, geometry, precalculus, trigonometry, and calculus in one year, with a very superficial treatment. You can get the 0.5 gpa boost, but you’re taking a poorly organized class that going to be a huge time sink, and in the end you still don’t have a good understanding of the content.

[Anonymous]

Robinson parent here. I don’t know of anyone in real life who has buyer’s regret. This is a highly sought-out pyramid, with many high-achieving students. The IB program isn’t a deterrent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Each program has its strengths. The IB parents in Fairfax tend to try and over-compensate for the fact that their schools are lower-performing overall by exaggerating the benefits of IB. That’s why we invariably hear the entirely false assertions that AP is only about rote memorization, whereas IB teaches critical thinking skills and gives kids an advantage in college admissions. It’s laughable but also somewhat understandable when you put it in context.

This is so true.

People want to justify the choices they made for their kids, but the mental gymnastics is getting out of control. The critical thinking problem solving bit is the most ridiculous of all. Have they measured the critical thinking of the students to know? And how?

Agree that it doesn’t confer an advantage to college admissions compared to AP, although it’s stated in every IB thread as a fact. If anything, it will sometimes hurt the high performing kids, because the program is too rigid and lacks flexibility.

There’s a lot of buyer’s regret when people realize they are zoned for an IB school and that 80-98% of the kids at those schools don’t get IB diplomas. Meanwhile the AP schools offer a more flexible curriculum without all the rhetoric about creating “global citizens,” “life-long learners,” etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it easier to enroll students into IB but not AP courses, especially at underperforming FCPS schools? Is IB program less rigorous or does it come with adjustable rigor to fit the caliber of student cohort?

IB classes come in two flavors, one is High Level comparable with AP, the other Standard Level comparable with a regular class, and generally don’t get you any college credit. A weaker student could take an SL class a la carte, but I can’t imagine why that would be beneficial in any way.

Because they would learn things they would not learn in any other class, particularly the "vanilla" (non-honors/AP/IB) classes. Good God you are stupid.

You really are dumb.

SL are most definitely non college level classes. There’s no reason to take SL classes if the other option is the AP equivalent. If the student can’t handle the AP class, even dual enrollment would be more beneficial than the SL class, because at the end of the day you get some advanced coursework and college credit under your belt.

Just to humor you, let’s say you take SL Math instead of regular Precalculus, how is the SL class better? It’s a confusing hodgepodge of algebra, geometry, precalculus, statistics, and calculus that’s very superficial across all topics and it will cover everything from simple stuff like linear and quadratic equations all the way to derivatives and integrals in the time span of one school year. It’s so shallow that it’s relying heavily on memorization, so it’s going to be disastrous for the kids taking the class. They’d be much better off with the “vanilla” precalculus that at least in the precalculus topics will go much deeper than the SL class. IB curriculum is actually terrible when you look into what’s in the syllabus.

some schools weigh IB SL classes out of 4.5, some weight them out of 5.0, so that's a reason to take the SL over regular/honors

If the gpa boost is the goal, it’s better to take AP or HL in a subject the student is capable. If that particular area is not a strong suit, then it makes more sense to take a regular class then save the time and effort for another AP.

IB curriculum in math and sciences is not very good and it is even worse in SL. Math SL in particular is disastrous because it covers topics from algebra, geometry, precalculus, trigonometry, and calculus in one year, with a very superficial treatment. You can get the 0.5 gpa boost, but you’re taking a poorly organized class that going to be a huge time sink, and in the end you still don’t have a good understanding of the content.

At Robinson it's a boost.

Strangely, I went to a school system where the IB school was like TJ. You had to apply in 8th grade and people clamored for acceptance. And those were the kids who had the best outcomes (i.e. ivy admissions, etc). It was intense, competitive, and in some ways, a series of steps to end up at a elite school as much as a program. I did do well there (I am a physician) and I found the writing to actually be the most useful even in my science classes where the labs were killer.

When we moved here, my kids went to Robinson and it was almost identical except there wasn't the toxic competitiveness. The kids were...nice? But the program structurally was the same and the substance was the same and my ended up at a elite private and UVA and are doing well.

I found the project to basically set up my college essays. That and the TOK paper helped me learn how to write well.