Practical differences between AP and IB in FCPS?

[Anonymous]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with teaching kids to master a subject rather than just how to structure an essay.

You don’t get an IB diploma without getting satisfactory grades on enough IB exams, so there is a lot of teaching to the test involved with that program. The tests just have a different focus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

Selection effect, nitwit. Correlation not causation.

If IB were all that, the higher SES communities would by now have demanded it for their schools. They do not want it, whether it’s Langley in FCPS or Whitman in MCPS. That is far more compelling evidence than the typical, biased pro-IB anecdotes invariably offered on these threads.

You suggest the high-SES communities must know best. They aren't exactly experts in the field of education. The average parent simply knows that within FCPS, most AP schools have good GreatSchools ratings and most IB schools have poor GreatSchools ratings.
Few outsider parents know any real details about IB. It's always the same, incorrect, critiques repeated ad infinitum: perceived inflexibility, too much reading and writing (Writing for math and science? Ridiculous!), and less college credit (no credit for SL, credit for HL).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Westfield Principal once described his AP program has teaching you what to think while the South Lakes Principal described IB as teaching you how to think. This was at a PTA event at our elementary school about 5 years ago.

Sounds ridiculously simplistic, whether that’s on your part or the part of the principals. Do better.

Yeah - you can take it up with the Principals then b/c that is literally what they said to us.

Personally, don't think it is much more complicated than that. AP is teaching for a test - they need to cover specific curriculum to get you through that test. IB is much more theorhetical -- as PPs have said, lots of writing and analysis. There are still tests, and still a curriculum to follow with international standards of learning. But the assignments and what they are trying to accomplish are different than an AP where the focus seems to be taking the test and testing out of certain college curriculum by showing the mastery of the subject based on the AP exam.

Would you like me to expand more? My DS is at SLHS and is taking a full IB curriculum, just finished junior year, so happy to speak to that if you'd like me to "do better."

If the South Lakes IB program was so strong or desirable, why did they have to prop it up by redistricting families from AP schools to South Lakes against their will?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

Selection effect, nitwit. Correlation not causation.

If IB were all that, the higher SES communities would by now have demanded it for their schools. They do not want it, whether it’s Langley in FCPS or Whitman in MCPS. That is far more compelling evidence than the typical, biased pro-IB anecdotes invariably offered on these threads.

You suggest the high-SES communities must know best. They aren't exactly experts in the field of education. The average parent simply knows that within FCPS, most AP schools have good GreatSchools ratings and most IB schools have poor GreatSchools ratings.
Few outsider parents know any real details about IB. It's always the same, incorrect, critiques repeated ad infinitum: perceived inflexibility, too much reading and writing (Writing for math and science? Ridiculous!), and less college credit (no credit for SL, credit for HL).

A stronger peer group at an AP school will always trump a weaker peer group at an IB school for educated parents seeking to maximize their kids’ academic potential.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure it's been discussed on DCUM but my search skills aren't bringing up good results.

What are the practical differences between AP curriculum and IB curriculum in Fairfax County Public Schools? I know what the articles on the Internet say but they don't really address how the programs are implemented or what types of students thrive in the respective programs.

I took AP courses in high school so I'm fairly familiar with those but IB wasn't an option and I don't know anyone who has been part of an IB program.

The school nearest to me that has an IB program isn't desirable but I don't know if that's more about the school or IB curriculum.

Both. FCPS put IB in undesirable schools and over time IB made those schools even less desirable. It’s the wrong program for those locations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a college English professor. I would much rather have an IB student over an AP student. The IB students I have taught problem solve, make connections, and write much better than the AP students. My AP students are barely distinguishable from their non-advanced peers. This has been my experience both for those that received college credit and those who did not.

The college professors opinion >>> the mom at the school that doesn't offer IB claiming that AP is better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure it's been discussed on DCUM but my search skills aren't bringing up good results.

What are the practical differences between AP curriculum and IB curriculum in Fairfax County Public Schools? I know what the articles on the Internet say but they don't really address how the programs are implemented or what types of students thrive in the respective programs.

I took AP courses in high school so I'm fairly familiar with those but IB wasn't an option and I don't know anyone who has been part of an IB program.

The school nearest to me that has an IB program isn't desirable but I don't know if that's more about the school or IB curriculum.

Both. FCPS put IB in undesirable schools and over time IB made those schools even less desirable. It’s the wrong program for those locations.

Not really. Without IB, no good students would attend those “undesirable” schools at all. You’d just accelerate the flight to the “desirable” schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

Selection effect, nitwit. Correlation not causation.

If IB were all that, the higher SES communities would by now have demanded it for their schools. They do not want it, whether it’s Langley in FCPS or Whitman in MCPS. That is far more compelling evidence than the typical, biased pro-IB anecdotes invariably offered on these threads.

You suggest the high-SES communities must know best. They aren't exactly experts in the field of education. The average parent simply knows that within FCPS, most AP schools have good GreatSchools ratings and most IB schools have poor GreatSchools ratings.
Few outsider parents know any real details about IB. It's always the same, incorrect, critiques repeated ad infinitum: perceived inflexibility, too much reading and writing (Writing for math and science? Ridiculous!), and less college credit (no credit for SL, credit for HL).

A stronger peer group at an AP school will always trump a weaker peer group at an IB school for educated parents seeking to maximize their kids’ academic potential.

My kid is at an IB school and has a strong peer group. His friends who graduated this year are going to great colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

Selection effect, nitwit. Correlation not causation.

If IB were all that, the higher SES communities would by now have demanded it for their schools. They do not want it, whether it’s Langley in FCPS or Whitman in MCPS. That is far more compelling evidence than the typical, biased pro-IB anecdotes invariably offered on these threads.

Again this is showing selection effect. High SES communities are satisfied with their schools and don’t want to change because they already have smart, privileged kids who do well not because AP is so great but due to the quality of kids who are already there.

If anything DCUM has a bias against IB because parents in the high SES areas look down on the “inferior” schools that have IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

Selection effect, nitwit. Correlation not causation.

If IB were all that, the higher SES communities would by now have demanded it for their schools. They do not want it, whether it’s Langley in FCPS or Whitman in MCPS. That is far more compelling evidence than the typical, biased pro-IB anecdotes invariably offered on these threads.

You suggest the high-SES communities must know best. They aren't exactly experts in the field of education. The average parent simply knows that within FCPS, most AP schools have good GreatSchools ratings and most IB schools have poor GreatSchools ratings.
Few outsider parents know any real details about IB. It's always the same, incorrect, critiques repeated ad infinitum: perceived inflexibility, too much reading and writing (Writing for math and science? Ridiculous!), and less college credit (no credit for SL, credit for HL).

A stronger peer group at an AP school will always trump a weaker peer group at an IB school for educated parents seeking to maximize their kids’ academic potential.

My kid is at an IB school and has a strong peer group. His friends who graduated this year are going to great colleges.

Are there numbers available for the number of IB graduates per school? Seems like most of the comments are coming from one school district with lots of kids from high income families getting the IB diploma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a college English professor. I would much rather have an IB student over an AP student. The IB students I have taught problem solve, make connections, and write much better than the AP students. My AP students are barely distinguishable from their non-advanced peers. This has been my experience both for those that received college credit and those who did not.

The college professors opinion >>> the mom at the school that doesn't offer IB claiming that AP is better.

We've had kids at both IB and AP schools. Both programs have strengths but I'd take an AP school for the vast majority of students. IB really is a niche program, and that's reflected in its overall lack of popularity compared to IB and the small number of students receiving IB diplomas at every FCPS high school with an IB program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure it's been discussed on DCUM but my search skills aren't bringing up good results.

What are the practical differences between AP curriculum and IB curriculum in Fairfax County Public Schools? I know what the articles on the Internet say but they don't really address how the programs are implemented or what types of students thrive in the respective programs.

I took AP courses in high school so I'm fairly familiar with those but IB wasn't an option and I don't know anyone who has been part of an IB program.

The school nearest to me that has an IB program isn't desirable but I don't know if that's more about the school or IB curriculum.

Both. FCPS put IB in undesirable schools and over time IB made those schools even less desirable. It’s the wrong program for those locations.

Not really. Without IB, no good students would attend those “undesirable” schools at all. You’d just accelerate the flight to the “desirable” schools.

Some of the biggest defenders of IB are parents who buy homes at a discount zoned to IB schools and then pupil place their kids to AP schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

Selection effect, nitwit. Correlation not causation.

If IB were all that, the higher SES communities would by now have demanded it for their schools. They do not want it, whether it’s Langley in FCPS or Whitman in MCPS. That is far more compelling evidence than the typical, biased pro-IB anecdotes invariably offered on these threads.

Again this is showing selection effect. High SES communities are satisfied with their schools and don’t want to change because they already have smart, privileged kids who do well not because AP is so great but due to the quality of kids who are already there.

If anything DCUM has a bias against IB because parents in the high SES areas look down on the “inferior” schools that have IB.

In fact, when Langley wasn't satisfied with its course offerings, it worked hard to get Chinese at Langley so kids wouldn't have to travel to the Marshall Academy.

No one at LHS apart from the small number of families pupil placing to Marshall and South Lakes wants IB. STEM courses and Chinese - yes! TOK - not so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IB is geared towards earning an “IB diploma,” whereas AP is more a la carte.

To get an IB diploma you have to take courses in different subject areas, akin to college distribution requirements. You take the AP courses that interest you.

Because of the relatively small percentage of students at IB schools in FCPS who pursue an IB diploma, they now emphasize that you can also take IB courses a la carte. That is true, but it’s not the original purpose of IB.

IB courses tend to be more writing-heavy but also to cover less material. AP courses tend to be more like introductory college “survey” courses. They cover a wider range of material, and only some AP courses are writing-intensive.

AP courses are year-long courses or in a few cases semester courses, whereas IB courses are one or in some cases two years long.

FCPS primarily installed IB courses at lower performing high schools to try to create a “school-within-a-school” environment. Most of the higher performing schools in FCPS are AP schools where most kids take multiple AP courses.

Because AP courses are a la carte and there are no distribution requirements, it is easier to take more STEM courses at AP schools.

IB courses are designed by an organization (the IBO) based in Geneva, whereas AP courses are designed by the College Board, which is based in the United States. The IBO touts turning IB students into “global citizens,” whereas the College Board primarily touts that AP courses are good college prep.

Historically, American universities were more likely to give college credits for AP courses than for IB courses, but now most schools recognize AP and IB test scores equally (or in some cases not at all).

Good summary.

IB HL courses are comparable with AP, although in science and math they are not as good and they take two years compared to one year for AP. SL are just like honors high school classes so they are inferior to AP.

If IB is not supplemented with AP the schedule will be weaker having only 3 HL in two years. It’s very common for AP students to have 6+ AP in the last two years of high school.

I find it odd when people say AP teches to the test given the insane amount of testing and assessments in the IB program. There’s less testing and more freedom for the teacher to structure the class as they see fit in AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

Selection effect, nitwit. Correlation not causation.

If IB were all that, the higher SES communities would by now have demanded it for their schools. They do not want it, whether it’s Langley in FCPS or Whitman in MCPS. That is far more compelling evidence than the typical, biased pro-IB anecdotes invariably offered on these threads.

You suggest the high-SES communities must know best. They aren't exactly experts in the field of education. The average parent simply knows that within FCPS, most AP schools have good GreatSchools ratings and most IB schools have poor GreatSchools ratings.
Few outsider parents know any real details about IB. It's always the same, incorrect, critiques repeated ad infinitum: perceived inflexibility, too much reading and writing (Writing for math and science? Ridiculous!), and less college credit (no credit for SL, credit for HL).

A stronger peer group at an AP school will always trump a weaker peer group at an IB school for educated parents seeking to maximize their kids’ academic potential.

My kid is at an IB school and has a strong peer group. His friends who graduated this year are going to great colleges.

Are there numbers available for the number of IB graduates per school? Seems like most of the comments are coming from one school district with lots of kids from high income families getting the IB diploma.

My high performing DC is doing the full diploma at one of the worst regarded schools in the county. Sure, the cohort is small, but it's truly a group of gifted and hardworking kids who will graduate much more prepared for college than many AP kids. And, coming from our school of our "stature" will give them a leg up in the admissions process