Practical differences between AP and IB in FCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP with an IB kid at a poorly regarded school. Not only is she getting a good education, her school's demographics do, in fact, give her an advantage in college admissions, beyond IB. For example, there were significantly more graduating seniors accepted to UVA this year at her school than at higher SES schools, where the fight for just a few spots is super competitive.

I'm not saying IB is all that, or a good fit for everyone, particularly those who struggle with writing. But there are certain types of students who can benefit tremendously from the program. And the fact that IB is typically offered in lower SES schools means that those who thrive in the program have an easier route to top colleges and universities, where they arrive prepared.

The top AP schools get significantly more kids into UVA and the kids are better prepared because they’ve spent years with a stronger peer group.

Can you break down for us what a “stronger peer group” means? So like my kid is in AAP in MS but her MS splits into different high schools…AP and IB. Where they go is determined by address. Are the AAP IB kids all of a sudden going to not be academically oriented? I’m trying to follow your logic. Unless strong peer group is just code for less poor and/or brown kids?

What schools are you talking about? Usually you have a choice, the strong kids are more likely to go for AP than IB.

No need to gratuitously accuse people of racism.

The “strong kids” are going into IB, AP, and TJ. I don’t know what to tell you. There are plenty of AAP kids going into IB. They don’t give you a choice-you go to your assigned school unless you apply elsewhere (if school is taking transfers). And I read this forum enough to know that racism is most def a factor of some people’s perceptions of schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the strongest argument in favor of IB is that it’s so unappealing that you can assume there will be less competition for slots at some state schools coming from an IB school? No thanks.

Yes PP. That is the take away from this entire discussion. Less competition (due to IB not SES of school…like Herndon—is that more competitive bc of AP?). IB is just terrible. So unappealing. Unsophisticated parents. Bad peers. I guess admission officers at UVA and WM (ask them at WM what they think of the horrid IB program!) have to take students from these crappy IB schools to fill their “slots” per schools (bc that’s a thing).

What about being a critical thinking global citizen with problem solving skills? Now that’s gonna get you into UVA, but why settle? I’m sure Harvard needs to fill some slots too.

Why do think IB kids don’t have problem solving skills? I think it’s fine if people prefer AP and pick that for their kids. I also agree that IB should be offered only at a couple of FCPS schools. What remains a mystery to me is the vitriol directed at IB by certain people on this forum. And by the language used, it seems like it’s always the same couple of people. It’s almost comical at this point. Part of having “critical thinking” is ability to understand why someone might have different opinions/choices. It’s NOT thinking in black/white terms. Having to constantly disparage someone’s opinion to elevate your argument is not critical thinking. Btw-I’m not an IB is superior proponent. I think both programs have pros/cons.

I actually think IB kids are fine. On the other hand the IBO talking points are so cringe, wondering why they need to resort to it. Usually it’s the IB crowd making outlandish claims like in the post before you, maybe you even wrote it yourself.

For getting into college IB is absolutely better.

There absolutely no evidence for it, no argument, nuance, or qualification. If you put your arguments forward on a public forum, it’s expected that you’ll be called in your BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the strongest argument in favor of IB is that it’s so unappealing that you can assume there will be less competition for slots at some state schools coming from an IB school? No thanks.

Yes PP. That is the take away from this entire discussion. Less competition (due to IB not SES of school…like Herndon—is that more competitive bc of AP?). IB is just terrible. So unappealing. Unsophisticated parents. Bad peers. I guess admission officers at UVA and WM (ask them at WM what they think of the horrid IB program!) have to take students from these crappy IB schools to fill their “slots” per schools (bc that’s a thing).

What about being a critical thinking global citizen with problem solving skills? Now that’s gonna get you into UVA, but why settle? I’m sure Harvard needs to fill some slots too.

Why do think IB kids don’t have problem solving skills? I think it’s fine if people prefer AP and pick that for their kids. I also agree that IB should be offered only at a couple of FCPS schools. What remains a mystery to me is the vitriol directed at IB by certain people on this forum. And by the language used, it seems like it’s always the same couple of people. It’s almost comical at this point. Part of having “critical thinking” is ability to understand why someone might have different opinions/choices. It’s NOT thinking in black/white terms. Having to constantly disparage someone’s opinion to elevate your argument is not critical thinking. Btw-I’m not an IB is superior proponent. I think both programs have pros/cons.

I actually think IB kids are fine. On the other hand the IBO talking points are so cringe, wondering why they need to resort to it. Usually it’s the IB crowd making outlandish claims like in the post before you, maybe you even wrote it yourself.

For getting into college IB is absolutely better.

There absolutely no evidence for it, no argument, nuance, or qualification. If you put your arguments forward on a public forum, it’s expected that you’ll be called in your BS.

I’m not that poster….is reading comprehension not your thing? I don’t advocate one program over the other.

[Anonymous]

Each program has its strengths. The IB parents in Fairfax tend to try and over-compensate for the fact that their schools are lower-performing overall by exaggerating the benefits of IB. That’s why we invariably hear the entirely false assertions that AP is only about rote memorization, whereas IB teaches critical thinking skills and gives kids an advantage in college admissions. It’s laughable but also somewhat understandable when you put it in context.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP with an IB kid at a poorly regarded school. Not only is she getting a good education, her school's demographics do, in fact, give her an advantage in college admissions, beyond IB. For example, there were significantly more graduating seniors accepted to UVA this year at her school than at higher SES schools, where the fight for just a few spots is super competitive.

I'm not saying IB is all that, or a good fit for everyone, particularly those who struggle with writing. But there are certain types of students who can benefit tremendously from the program. And the fact that IB is typically offered in lower SES schools means that those who thrive in the program have an easier route to top colleges and universities, where they arrive prepared.

The top AP schools get significantly more kids into UVA

If that is true it is once again correlation not causation.

and the kids are better prepared because they’ve spent years with a stronger peer group.

You don't know enough about the "peer groups" to say which is stronger, you're just making things up.

It’s objectively clear which schools have stronger peer groups. It’s not the IB schools.

IB schools in FCPS are frequently under-enrolled, under-performing, and troubled. For example, you can read about the litany of complaints raised to Justice’s new principal this week by unhappy parents.

It is not objectively clear because no kid hangs out with every other kid in a large public high school. They don’t even KNOW everyone in their class. Any kid’s peer group is a small group of friends. High performing, intelligent IB kids hang out with each other not with the “underperforming and troubled” kids. And you can’t know how strong your kids peer group is unless you know their grades and test scores, which you don’t (and it would be creepy if you did).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP with an IB kid at a poorly regarded school. Not only is she getting a good education, her school's demographics do, in fact, give her an advantage in college admissions, beyond IB. For example, there were significantly more graduating seniors accepted to UVA this year at her school than at higher SES schools, where the fight for just a few spots is super competitive.

I'm not saying IB is all that, or a good fit for everyone, particularly those who struggle with writing. But there are certain types of students who can benefit tremendously from the program. And the fact that IB is typically offered in lower SES schools means that those who thrive in the program have an easier route to top colleges and universities, where they arrive prepared.

The top AP schools get significantly more kids into UVA

If that is true it is once again correlation not causation.

and the kids are better prepared because they’ve spent years with a stronger peer group.

You don't know enough about the "peer groups" to say which is stronger, you're just making things up.

It’s objectively clear which schools have stronger peer groups. It’s not the IB schools.

IB schools in FCPS are frequently under-enrolled, under-performing, and troubled. For example, you can read about the litany of complaints raised to Justice’s new principal this week by unhappy parents.

It is not objectively clear because no kid hangs out with every other kid in a large public high school. They don’t even KNOW everyone in their class. Any kid’s peer group is a small group of friends. High performing, intelligent IB kids hang out with each other not with the “underperforming and troubled” kids. And you can’t know how strong your kids peer group is unless you know their grades and test scores, which you don’t (and it would be creepy if you did).

Nah, that’s only true if your kid has a small peer group at a “school within a school” IB program. Cling to your lifeline if you want but information that’s in the public record confirms which schools have stronger students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP with an IB kid at a poorly regarded school. Not only is she getting a good education, her school's demographics do, in fact, give her an advantage in college admissions, beyond IB. For example, there were significantly more graduating seniors accepted to UVA this year at her school than at higher SES schools, where the fight for just a few spots is super competitive.

I'm not saying IB is all that, or a good fit for everyone, particularly those who struggle with writing. But there are certain types of students who can benefit tremendously from the program. And the fact that IB is typically offered in lower SES schools means that those who thrive in the program have an easier route to top colleges and universities, where they arrive prepared.

The top AP schools get significantly more kids into UVA and the kids are better prepared because they’ve spent years with a stronger peer group.

Can you break down for us what a “stronger peer group” means? So like my kid is in AAP in MS but her MS splits into different high schools…AP and IB. Where they go is determined by address. Are the AAP IB kids all of a sudden going to not be academically oriented? I’m trying to follow your logic. Unless strong peer group is just code for less poor and/or brown kids?

What schools are you talking about? Usually you have a choice, the strong kids are more likely to go for AP than IB.

No need to gratuitously accuse people of racism.

No you don’t usually have a choice. It’s usually either AP or IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP with an IB kid at a poorly regarded school. Not only is she getting a good education, her school's demographics do, in fact, give her an advantage in college admissions, beyond IB. For example, there were significantly more graduating seniors accepted to UVA this year at her school than at higher SES schools, where the fight for just a few spots is super competitive.

I'm not saying IB is all that, or a good fit for everyone, particularly those who struggle with writing. But there are certain types of students who can benefit tremendously from the program. And the fact that IB is typically offered in lower SES schools means that those who thrive in the program have an easier route to top colleges and universities, where they arrive prepared.

The top AP schools get significantly more kids into UVA

If that is true it is once again correlation not causation.

and the kids are better prepared because they’ve spent years with a stronger peer group.

You don't know enough about the "peer groups" to say which is stronger, you're just making things up.

It’s objectively clear which schools have stronger peer groups. It’s not the IB schools.

IB schools in FCPS are frequently under-enrolled, under-performing, and troubled. For example, you can read about the litany of complaints raised to Justice’s new principal this week by unhappy parents.

What an odd thing to say. I went to Marshall in the early 00s and did a la carte IB courses - not even the full diploma. Even from that, I went into college (well-regarded VA public) with a semester’s worth of credits.

I had an incredibly strong and diverse peer group and was exceptionally prepared for college. Posters here are so closed-minded sometimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP with an IB kid at a poorly regarded school. Not only is she getting a good education, her school's demographics do, in fact, give her an advantage in college admissions, beyond IB. For example, there were significantly more graduating seniors accepted to UVA this year at her school than at higher SES schools, where the fight for just a few spots is super competitive.

I'm not saying IB is all that, or a good fit for everyone, particularly those who struggle with writing. But there are certain types of students who can benefit tremendously from the program. And the fact that IB is typically offered in lower SES schools means that those who thrive in the program have an easier route to top colleges and universities, where they arrive prepared.

The top AP schools get significantly more kids into UVA

If that is true it is once again correlation not causation.

and the kids are better prepared because they’ve spent years with a stronger peer group.

You don't know enough about the "peer groups" to say which is stronger, you're just making things up.

It’s objectively clear which schools have stronger peer groups. It’s not the IB schools.

IB schools in FCPS are frequently under-enrolled, under-performing, and troubled. For example, you can read about the litany of complaints raised to Justice’s new principal this week by unhappy parents.

It is not objectively clear because no kid hangs out with every other kid in a large public high school. They don’t even KNOW everyone in their class. Any kid’s peer group is a small group of friends. High performing, intelligent IB kids hang out with each other not with the “underperforming and troubled” kids. And you can’t know how strong your kids peer group is unless you know their grades and test scores, which you don’t (and it would be creepy if you did).

Nah, that’s only true if your kid has a small peer group at a “school within a school” IB program. Cling to your lifeline if you want but information that’s in the public record confirms which schools have stronger students.

Every kid has a small peer group, idiot. Your kid’s peer group is not all 600 kids in the class. Even at AP schools the AP kids are a school within a school.

“All of McLean is stronger than all of Justice” is a thoroughly dishonest argument against IB. Be better!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids go to an IB high school. Our high school also has a rigorous selection of DE (dual enrollment) courses. We have a very small group that does the full IB diploma and a group that does IB CP (IB Career Program.) The other college bound students do a mix of IB and DE courses. My DS, who did the full diploma, said the only kids in his math and IB Spanish 2 classes were the diploma kids. But his English, History and Science courses had non diploma students. His English class had the most students. IB is known for a rigorous writing program so it makes sense that the college bound students would elect to take IB English and not DE English. But the students who are going to pursue a STEM career tend to take the DE Math classes.

TOK (Theory of Knowledge) will have an after school option. In order to do the diploma, there aren't enough periods in the day to take all the required courses plus a non-IB elective like band or chorus.

At AP schools, students take US Government (AP Govt) in 11th or 12th grade. The IB diploma does not include US Government in their social studies curriculum, which is a VA state requirement. IB students need to take the government requirement in 10th grade.

How many periods are there in a day? I did the MCPS IB Diploma Programme magnet; graduated a little over a decade ago. We had seven periods a day, had TOK during the school day, and I still had room to be in band all four years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP with an IB kid at a poorly regarded school. Not only is she getting a good education, her school's demographics do, in fact, give her an advantage in college admissions, beyond IB. For example, there were significantly more graduating seniors accepted to UVA this year at her school than at higher SES schools, where the fight for just a few spots is super competitive.

I'm not saying IB is all that, or a good fit for everyone, particularly those who struggle with writing. But there are certain types of students who can benefit tremendously from the program. And the fact that IB is typically offered in lower SES schools means that those who thrive in the program have an easier route to top colleges and universities, where they arrive prepared.

The top AP schools get significantly more kids into UVA

If that is true it is once again correlation not causation.

and the kids are better prepared because they’ve spent years with a stronger peer group.

You don't know enough about the "peer groups" to say which is stronger, you're just making things up.

It’s objectively clear which schools have stronger peer groups. It’s not the IB schools.

IB schools in FCPS are frequently under-enrolled, under-performing, and troubled. For example, you can read about the litany of complaints raised to Justice’s new principal this week by unhappy parents.

It is not objectively clear because no kid hangs out with every other kid in a large public high school. They don’t even KNOW everyone in their class. Any kid’s peer group is a small group of friends. High performing, intelligent IB kids hang out with each other not with the “underperforming and troubled” kids. And you can’t know how strong your kids peer group is unless you know their grades and test scores, which you don’t (and it would be creepy if you did).

Nah, that’s only true if your kid has a small peer group at a “school within a school” IB program. Cling to your lifeline if you want but information that’s in the public record confirms which schools have stronger students.

Every kid has a small peer group, idiot. Your kid’s peer group is not all 600 kids in the class. Even at AP schools the AP kids are a school within a school.

“All of McLean is stronger than all of Justice” is a thoroughly dishonest argument against IB. Be better!

The idiots are the parents forcing their kids to attend IB schools. At AP schools, the AP kids are the norm, not the "school within a school."

Trouble at Justice: https://annandaletoday.com/new-justice-principal-sean-rolon-to-focus-on-communications-and-safety/

[Anonymous]

Lewis is the biggest basket case in the county - also IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Each program has its strengths. The IB parents in Fairfax tend to try and over-compensate for the fact that their schools are lower-performing overall by exaggerating the benefits of IB. That’s why we invariably hear the entirely false assertions that AP is only about rote memorization, whereas IB teaches critical thinking skills and gives kids an advantage in college admissions. It’s laughable but also somewhat understandable when you put it in context.

This is so true.

People want to justify the choices they made for their kids, but the mental gymnastics is getting out of control. The critical thinking problem solving bit is the most ridiculous of all. Have they measured the critical thinking of the students to know? And how?

Agree that it doesn’t confer an advantage to college admissions compared to AP, although it’s stated in every IB thread as a fact. If anything, it will sometimes hurt the high performing kids, because the program is too rigid and lacks flexibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP with an IB kid at a poorly regarded school. Not only is she getting a good education, her school's demographics do, in fact, give her an advantage in college admissions, beyond IB. For example, there were significantly more graduating seniors accepted to UVA this year at her school than at higher SES schools, where the fight for just a few spots is super competitive.

I'm not saying IB is all that, or a good fit for everyone, particularly those who struggle with writing. But there are certain types of students who can benefit tremendously from the program. And the fact that IB is typically offered in lower SES schools means that those who thrive in the program have an easier route to top colleges and universities, where they arrive prepared.

The top AP schools get significantly more kids into UVA

If that is true it is once again correlation not causation.

and the kids are better prepared because they’ve spent years with a stronger peer group.

You don't know enough about the "peer groups" to say which is stronger, you're just making things up.

It’s objectively clear which schools have stronger peer groups. It’s not the IB schools.

IB schools in FCPS are frequently under-enrolled, under-performing, and troubled. For example, you can read about the litany of complaints raised to Justice’s new principal this week by unhappy parents.

It is not objectively clear because no kid hangs out with every other kid in a large public high school. They don’t even KNOW everyone in their class. Any kid’s peer group is a small group of friends. High performing, intelligent IB kids hang out with each other not with the “underperforming and troubled” kids. And you can’t know how strong your kids peer group is unless you know their grades and test scores, which you don’t (and it would be creepy if you did).

Nah, that’s only true if your kid has a small peer group at a “school within a school” IB program. Cling to your lifeline if you want but information that’s in the public record confirms which schools have stronger students.

Every kid has a small peer group, idiot. Your kid’s peer group is not all 600 kids in the class. Even at AP schools the AP kids are a school within a school.

“All of McLean is stronger than all of Justice” is a thoroughly dishonest argument against IB. Be better!

The idiots are the parents forcing their kids to attend IB schools. At AP schools, the AP kids are the norm, not the "school within a school."

Trouble at Justice: https://annandaletoday.com/new-justice-principal-sean-rolon-to-focus-on-communications-and-safety/

Kids are assigned to IB schools based on their addresses. They could go to an AP school if they really want to AND they can get transportation. No one forces their kids to attend an IB school. Parents do force their kids to attend AP bc of ignorant assumptions about IB though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Each program has its strengths. The IB parents in Fairfax tend to try and over-compensate for the fact that their schools are lower-performing overall by exaggerating the benefits of IB. That’s why we invariably hear the entirely false assertions that AP is only about rote memorization, whereas IB teaches critical thinking skills and gives kids an advantage in college admissions. It’s laughable but also somewhat understandable when you put it in context.

This is so true.

People want to justify the choices they made for their kids, but the mental gymnastics is getting out of control. The critical thinking problem solving bit is the most ridiculous of all. Have they measured the critical thinking of the students to know? And how?

Agree that it doesn’t confer an advantage to college admissions compared to AP, although it’s stated in every IB thread as a fact. If anything, it will sometimes hurt the high performing kids, because the program is too rigid and lacks flexibility.

I think this thread shows that it’s mostly AP supporters dissing IB not the other way around. And I agree that this whole discussion is so ridiculous. Both have pros/cons.