Practical differences between AP and IB in FCPS?

[Anonymous]

I'm sure it's been discussed on DCUM but my search skills aren't bringing up good results.

What are the practical differences between AP curriculum and IB curriculum in Fairfax County Public Schools? I know what the articles on the Internet say but they don't really address how the programs are implemented or what types of students thrive in the respective programs.

I took AP courses in high school so I'm fairly familiar with those but IB wasn't an option and I don't know anyone who has been part of an IB program.

The school nearest to me that has an IB program isn't desirable but I don't know if that's more about the school or IB curriculum.

[Anonymous]

IB is geared towards earning an “IB diploma,” whereas AP is more a la carte.

To get an IB diploma you have to take courses in different subject areas, akin to college distribution requirements. You take the AP courses that interest you.

Because of the relatively small percentage of students at IB schools in FCPS who pursue an IB diploma, they now emphasize that you can also take IB courses a la carte. That is true, but it’s not the original purpose of IB.

IB courses tend to be more writing-heavy but also to cover less material. AP courses tend to be more like introductory college “survey” courses. They cover a wider range of material, and only some AP courses are writing-intensive.

AP courses are year-long courses or in a few cases semester courses, whereas IB courses are one or in some cases two years long.

FCPS primarily installed IB courses at lower performing high schools to try to create a “school-within-a-school” environment. Most of the higher performing schools in FCPS are AP schools where most kids take multiple AP courses.

Because AP courses are a la carte and there are no distribution requirements, it is easier to take more STEM courses at AP schools.

IB courses are designed by an organization (the IBO) based in Geneva, whereas AP courses are designed by the College Board, which is based in the United States. The IBO touts turning IB students into “global citizens,” whereas the College Board primarily touts that AP courses are good college prep.

Historically, American universities were more likely to give college credits for AP courses than for IB courses, but now most schools recognize AP and IB test scores equally (or in some cases not at all).

[Anonymous]

IB is very rigorous with tons of writing, better for getting into a college, AP is better for higher number of college credits earned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IB is very rigorous with tons of writing, better for getting into a college, AP is better for higher number of college credits earned.

Neither is better for getting into college. The most important thing is taking a rigorous load for your school. DCUM (and NoVa in general) is very anti-IB, I think mostly bc they don’t quite understand it. I think the writing in IB really helps with college level writing/papers. If the goal is to get college credits, then AP makes sense. A lot of professors say that even if a kid gets a high score on an AP exam—they might not be prepared for coursework that comes after an intro level college course. Someone asked this question on the professor subreddit (DE vs AP vs IB) and it was an interesting discussion.

[Anonymous]

Westfield Principal once described his AP program has teaching you what to think while the South Lakes Principal described IB as teaching you how to think. This was at a PTA event at our elementary school about 5 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Westfield Principal once described his AP program has teaching you what to think while the South Lakes Principal described IB as teaching you how to think. This was at a PTA event at our elementary school about 5 years ago.

Sounds ridiculously simplistic, whether that’s on your part or the part of the principals. Do better.

[Anonymous]

There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

That speaks to the SES status of these schools not AP vs IB. You put IB in Langley and you are still going to have top students. You put in AP in a low SES/performing school and you will still not going to have National Merit Semifinalists. This is pretty obvious, no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

Selection effect, nitwit. Correlation not causation.

[Anonymous]

I am a college English professor. I would much rather have an IB student over an AP student. The IB students I have taught problem solve, make connections, and write much better than the AP students. My AP students are barely distinguishable from their non-advanced peers. This has been my experience both for those that received college credit and those who did not.

[Anonymous]

My kids go to an IB high school. Our high school also has a rigorous selection of DE (dual enrollment) courses. We have a very small group that does the full IB diploma and a group that does IB CP (IB Career Program.) The other college bound students do a mix of IB and DE courses. My DS, who did the full diploma, said the only kids in his math and IB Spanish 2 classes were the diploma kids. But his English, History and Science courses had non diploma students. His English class had the most students. IB is known for a rigorous writing program so it makes sense that the college bound students would elect to take IB English and not DE English. But the students who are going to pursue a STEM career tend to take the DE Math classes.

TOK (Theory of Knowledge) will have an after school option. In order to do the diploma, there aren't enough periods in the day to take all the required courses plus a non-IB elective like band or chorus.

At AP schools, students take US Government (AP Govt) in 11th or 12th grade. The IB diploma does not include US Government in their social studies curriculum, which is a VA state requirement. IB students need to take the government requirement in 10th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

That speaks to the SES status of these schools not AP vs IB. You put IB in Langley and you are still going to have top students. You put in AP in a low SES/performing school and you will still not going to have National Merit Semifinalists. This is pretty obvious, no?

Only if you think everything in life is due to SES (“SES status” is redundant).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

Selection effect, nitwit. Correlation not causation.

If IB were all that, the higher SES communities would by now have demanded it for their schools. They do not want it, whether it’s Langley in FCPS or Whitman in MCPS. That is far more compelling evidence than the typical, biased pro-IB anecdotes invariably offered on these threads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Westfield Principal once described his AP program has teaching you what to think while the South Lakes Principal described IB as teaching you how to think. This was at a PTA event at our elementary school about 5 years ago.

Sounds ridiculously simplistic, whether that’s on your part or the part of the principals. Do better.

Yeah - you can take it up with the Principals then b/c that is literally what they said to us.

Personally, don't think it is much more complicated than that. AP is teaching for a test - they need to cover specific curriculum to get you through that test. IB is much more theorhetical -- as PPs have said, lots of writing and analysis. There are still tests, and still a curriculum to follow with international standards of learning. But the assignments and what they are trying to accomplish are different than an AP where the focus seems to be taking the test and testing out of certain college curriculum by showing the mastery of the subject based on the AP exam.

Would you like me to expand more? My DS is at SLHS and is taking a full IB curriculum, just finished junior year, so happy to speak to that if you'd like me to "do better."

[Anonymous]

The poster calling people nitwits and telling them to do better in one sentence responses is annoying. I will ask Jeff to remove your posts if you continue to respond in that manner.