Practical differences between AP and IB in FCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

Selection effect, nitwit. Correlation not causation.

If IB were all that, the higher SES communities would by now have demanded it for their schools. They do not want it, whether it’s Langley in FCPS or Whitman in MCPS. That is far more compelling evidence than the typical, biased pro-IB anecdotes invariably offered on these threads.

You suggest the high-SES communities must know best. They aren't exactly experts in the field of education. The average parent simply knows that within FCPS, most AP schools have good GreatSchools ratings and most IB schools have poor GreatSchools ratings.
Few outsider parents know any real details about IB. It's always the same, incorrect, critiques repeated ad infinitum: perceived inflexibility, too much reading and writing (Writing for math and science? Ridiculous!), and less college credit (no credit for SL, credit for HL).

A stronger peer group at an AP school will always trump a weaker peer group at an IB school for educated parents seeking to maximize their kids’ academic potential.

My kid is at an IB school and has a strong peer group. His friends who graduated this year are going to great colleges.

Are there numbers available for the number of IB graduates per school? Seems like most of the comments are coming from one school district with lots of kids from high income families getting the IB diploma.

My high performing DC is doing the full diploma at one of the worst regarded schools in the county. Sure, the cohort is small, but it's truly a group of gifted and hardworking kids who will graduate much more prepared for college than many AP kids. And, coming from our school of our "stature" will give them a leg up in the admissions process

You’re smoking too much copium.

Colleges won’t know the results from the diploma when they offer admission, just a couple of SL scores.

At the worst regarded schools often IB programs won’t even offer HL math, and the only HL science is Biology. That’s a real handicap for someone interested in a stem major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a college English professor. I would much rather have an IB student over an AP student. The IB students I have taught problem solve, make connections, and write much better than the AP students. My AP students are barely distinguishable from their non-advanced peers. This has been my experience both for those that received college credit and those who did not.

The college professors opinion >>> the mom at the school that doesn't offer IB claiming that AP is better.

You mean the person who says they are a college professor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB is geared towards earning an “IB diploma,” whereas AP is more a la carte.

To get an IB diploma you have to take courses in different subject areas, akin to college distribution requirements. You take the AP courses that interest you.

Because of the relatively small percentage of students at IB schools in FCPS who pursue an IB diploma, they now emphasize that you can also take IB courses a la carte. That is true, but it’s not the original purpose of IB.

IB courses tend to be more writing-heavy but also to cover less material. AP courses tend to be more like introductory college “survey” courses. They cover a wider range of material, and only some AP courses are writing-intensive.

AP courses are year-long courses or in a few cases semester courses, whereas IB courses are one or in some cases two years long.

FCPS primarily installed IB courses at lower performing high schools to try to create a “school-within-a-school” environment. Most of the higher performing schools in FCPS are AP schools where most kids take multiple AP courses.

Because AP courses are a la carte and there are no distribution requirements, it is easier to take more STEM courses at AP schools.

IB courses are designed by an organization (the IBO) based in Geneva, whereas AP courses are designed by the College Board, which is based in the United States. The IBO touts turning IB students into “global citizens,” whereas the College Board primarily touts that AP courses are good college prep.

Historically, American universities were more likely to give college credits for AP courses than for IB courses, but now most schools recognize AP and IB test scores equally (or in some cases not at all).

Good summary.

IB HL courses are comparable with AP, although in science and math they are not as good and they take two years compared to one year for AP. SL are just like honors high school classes so they are inferior to AP.

If IB is not supplemented with AP the schedule will be weaker having only 3 HL in two years. It’s very common for AP students to have 6+ AP in the last two years of high school.

I find it odd when people say AP teches to the test given the insane amount of testing and assessments in the IB program. There’s less testing and more freedom for the teacher to structure the class as they see fit in AP.

Much of the IB testing was essays, so harder to teach to the test, also oral exams for languages which I don't think happens for AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB is geared towards earning an “IB diploma,” whereas AP is more a la carte.

To get an IB diploma you have to take courses in different subject areas, akin to college distribution requirements. You take the AP courses that interest you.

Because of the relatively small percentage of students at IB schools in FCPS who pursue an IB diploma, they now emphasize that you can also take IB courses a la carte. That is true, but it’s not the original purpose of IB.

IB courses tend to be more writing-heavy but also to cover less material. AP courses tend to be more like introductory college “survey” courses. They cover a wider range of material, and only some AP courses are writing-intensive.

AP courses are year-long courses or in a few cases semester courses, whereas IB courses are one or in some cases two years long.

FCPS primarily installed IB courses at lower performing high schools to try to create a “school-within-a-school” environment. Most of the higher performing schools in FCPS are AP schools where most kids take multiple AP courses.

Because AP courses are a la carte and there are no distribution requirements, it is easier to take more STEM courses at AP schools.

IB courses are designed by an organization (the IBO) based in Geneva, whereas AP courses are designed by the College Board, which is based in the United States. The IBO touts turning IB students into “global citizens,” whereas the College Board primarily touts that AP courses are good college prep.

Historically, American universities were more likely to give college credits for AP courses than for IB courses, but now most schools recognize AP and IB test scores equally (or in some cases not at all).

Good summary.

IB HL courses are comparable with AP, although in science and math they are not as good and they take two years compared to one year for AP. SL are just like honors high school classes so they are inferior to AP.

If IB is not supplemented with AP the schedule will be weaker having only 3 HL in two years. It’s very common for AP students to have 6+ AP in the last two years of high school.

I find it odd when people say AP teches to the test given the insane amount of testing and assessments in the IB program. There’s less testing and more freedom for the teacher to structure the class as they see fit in AP.

Much of the IB testing was essays, so harder to teach to the test, also oral exams for languages which I don't think happens for AP.

My AP kid will end up taking multivariable and physics BC as a senior. Nothing at our local IB school is comparable- most years they can't even get together enough students to offer HL math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB is geared towards earning an “IB diploma,” whereas AP is more a la carte.

To get an IB diploma you have to take courses in different subject areas, akin to college distribution requirements. You take the AP courses that interest you.

Because of the relatively small percentage of students at IB schools in FCPS who pursue an IB diploma, they now emphasize that you can also take IB courses a la carte. That is true, but it’s not the original purpose of IB.

IB courses tend to be more writing-heavy but also to cover less material. AP courses tend to be more like introductory college “survey” courses. They cover a wider range of material, and only some AP courses are writing-intensive.

AP courses are year-long courses or in a few cases semester courses, whereas IB courses are one or in some cases two years long.

FCPS primarily installed IB courses at lower performing high schools to try to create a “school-within-a-school” environment. Most of the higher performing schools in FCPS are AP schools where most kids take multiple AP courses.

Because AP courses are a la carte and there are no distribution requirements, it is easier to take more STEM courses at AP schools.

IB courses are designed by an organization (the IBO) based in Geneva, whereas AP courses are designed by the College Board, which is based in the United States. The IBO touts turning IB students into “global citizens,” whereas the College Board primarily touts that AP courses are good college prep.

Historically, American universities were more likely to give college credits for AP courses than for IB courses, but now most schools recognize AP and IB test scores equally (or in some cases not at all).

Good summary.

IB HL courses are comparable with AP, although in science and math they are not as good and they take two years compared to one year for AP. SL are just like honors high school classes so they are inferior to AP.

If IB is not supplemented with AP the schedule will be weaker having only 3 HL in two years. It’s very common for AP students to have 6+ AP in the last two years of high school.

I find it odd when people say AP teches to the test given the insane amount of testing and assessments in the IB program. There’s less testing and more freedom for the teacher to structure the class as they see fit in AP.

Much of the IB testing was essays, so harder to teach to the test, also oral exams for languages which I don't think happens for AP.

My AP kid will end up taking multivariable and physics BC as a senior. Nothing at our local IB school is comparable- most years they can't even get together enough students to offer HL math

sorry, physics C

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

Selection effect, nitwit. Correlation not causation.

If IB were all that, the higher SES communities would by now have demanded it for their schools. They do not want it, whether it’s Langley in FCPS or Whitman in MCPS. That is far more compelling evidence than the typical, biased pro-IB anecdotes invariably offered on these threads.

You suggest the high-SES communities must know best. They aren't exactly experts in the field of education. The average parent simply knows that within FCPS, most AP schools have good GreatSchools ratings and most IB schools have poor GreatSchools ratings.
Few outsider parents know any real details about IB. It's always the same, incorrect, critiques repeated ad infinitum: perceived inflexibility, too much reading and writing (Writing for math and science? Ridiculous!), and less college credit (no credit for SL, credit for HL).

A stronger peer group at an AP school will always trump a weaker peer group at an IB school for educated parents seeking to maximize their kids’ academic potential.

Schools like South Lakes and Marshall are the exception bc both have enough academically minded students taking IB courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a college English professor. I would much rather have an IB student over an AP student. The IB students I have taught problem solve, make connections, and write much better than the AP students. My AP students are barely distinguishable from their non-advanced peers. This has been my experience both for those that received college credit and those who did not.

I am a Novel Prize winner, totally agree with my colleague the DCUM college English professor. I’d rather work with IB students in my quest to cure cancer, the problem solving and critical thinking are truly amazing in IB. It’s a pity they can only take one single science class, but their expertise in Theory of Knowledge more than makes up for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

That speaks to the SES status of these schools not AP vs IB. You put IB in Langley and you are still going to have top students. You put in AP in a low SES/performing school and you will still not going to have National Merit Semifinalists. This is pretty obvious, no?

Only if you think everything in life is due to SES (“SES status” is redundant).

I mean it’s been shown time and time again that parents’ SES and educational background are the biggest predictors of academic success. A smart kid from a solid background is going to do well in either program. A particular program might be better suited for different kids. I have a humanities kid who loves going more in depth and writing. IB is a good fit. Younger sibling is more STEM oriented and AP would probably be better. The thing that I don’t understanding in all of these AP vs IB threads is having to put down the “other side” to justify your decisions/what program your kid is in…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

Selection effect, nitwit. Correlation not causation.

If IB were all that, the higher SES communities would by now have demanded it for their schools. They do not want it, whether it’s Langley in FCPS or Whitman in MCPS. That is far more compelling evidence than the typical, biased pro-IB anecdotes invariably offered on these threads.

You suggest the high-SES communities must know best. They aren't exactly experts in the field of education. The average parent simply knows that within FCPS, most AP schools have good GreatSchools ratings and most IB schools have poor GreatSchools ratings.
Few outsider parents know any real details about IB. It's always the same, incorrect, critiques repeated ad infinitum: perceived inflexibility, too much reading and writing (Writing for math and science? Ridiculous!), and less college credit (no credit for SL, credit for HL).

A stronger peer group at an AP school will always trump a weaker peer group at an IB school for educated parents seeking to maximize their kids’ academic potential.

Schools like South Lakes and Marshall are the exception bc both have enough academically minded students taking IB courses.

Robinson doesn't exist. It's an imaginary secondary school in FCPS.

[Anonymous]

The real question is: what percent of HYPSM freshmen were IB students in high school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

Selection effect, nitwit. Correlation not causation.

If IB were all that, the higher SES communities would by now have demanded it for their schools. They do not want it, whether it’s Langley in FCPS or Whitman in MCPS. That is far more compelling evidence than the typical, biased pro-IB anecdotes invariably offered on these threads.

You suggest the high-SES communities must know best. They aren't exactly experts in the field of education. The average parent simply knows that within FCPS, most AP schools have good GreatSchools ratings and most IB schools have poor GreatSchools ratings.
Few outsider parents know any real details about IB. It's always the same, incorrect, critiques repeated ad infinitum: perceived inflexibility, too much reading and writing (Writing for math and science? Ridiculous!), and less college credit (no credit for SL, credit for HL).

A stronger peer group at an AP school will always trump a weaker peer group at an IB school for educated parents seeking to maximize their kids’ academic potential.

My kid is at an IB school and has a strong peer group. His friends who graduated this year are going to great colleges.

Are there numbers available for the number of IB graduates per school? Seems like most of the comments are coming from one school district with lots of kids from high income families getting the IB diploma.

My high performing DC is doing the full diploma at one of the worst regarded schools in the county. Sure, the cohort is small, but it's truly a group of gifted and hardworking kids who will graduate much more prepared for college than many AP kids. And, coming from our school of our "stature" will give them a leg up in the admissions process

Kids doing the full IB diploma are better prepared than kids who only took 1 or 2 AP courses. Otherwise, no. The benefits of the stronger peer group at the AP school will leave the AP kids better prepared. Plus, why would you get a leg up in the admissions process when you don't even know if you're actually getting an IB diploma until after you've graduated from HS?

But hope your kid enjoys IB and jumping through all the hoops. For some it's a challenge they really enjoy, kind of like earning merit badges. Many others find it annoying and unduly prescriptive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a college English professor. I would much rather have an IB student over an AP student. The IB students I have taught problem solve, make connections, and write much better than the AP students. My AP students are barely distinguishable from their non-advanced peers. This has been my experience both for those that received college credit and those who did not.

I am a Novel Prize winner, totally agree with my colleague the DCUM college English professor. I’d rather work with IB students in my quest to cure cancer, the problem solving and critical thinking are truly amazing in IB. It’s a pity they can only take one single science class, but their expertise in Theory of Knowledge more than makes up for it.

I'm the top federal prosecutor in the country, and I agree with my colleagues, the English professor and the Nobel Prize winner, that my AUSAs who were IB students are far better prepared to convince a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich than my law clerks who were AP students, who can barely tie their shoes, much less deliver a good opening argument. This has been my experience both for those who passed the bar the first time and those like JKF, Jr. and Kim Kardashian who had to take the bar three or four times to pass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The real question is: what percent of HYPSM freshmen were IB students in high school?

What does this matter without knowing how many IB students there are in total?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

Selection effect, nitwit. Correlation not causation.

If IB were all that, the higher SES communities would by now have demanded it for their schools. They do not want it, whether it’s Langley in FCPS or Whitman in MCPS. That is far more compelling evidence than the typical, biased pro-IB anecdotes invariably offered on these threads.

You suggest the high-SES communities must know best. They aren't exactly experts in the field of education. The average parent simply knows that within FCPS, most AP schools have good GreatSchools ratings and most IB schools have poor GreatSchools ratings.
Few outsider parents know any real details about IB. It's always the same, incorrect, critiques repeated ad infinitum: perceived inflexibility, too much reading and writing (Writing for math and science? Ridiculous!), and less college credit (no credit for SL, credit for HL).

A stronger peer group at an AP school will always trump a weaker peer group at an IB school for educated parents seeking to maximize their kids’ academic potential.

Schools like South Lakes and Marshall are the exception bc both have enough academically minded students taking IB courses.

Robinson doesn't exist. It's an imaginary secondary school in FCPS.

My bad. You are correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

Selection effect, nitwit. Correlation not causation.

If IB were all that, the higher SES communities would by now have demanded it for their schools. They do not want it, whether it’s Langley in FCPS or Whitman in MCPS. That is far more compelling evidence than the typical, biased pro-IB anecdotes invariably offered on these threads.

You suggest the high-SES communities must know best. They aren't exactly experts in the field of education. The average parent simply knows that within FCPS, most AP schools have good GreatSchools ratings and most IB schools have poor GreatSchools ratings.
Few outsider parents know any real details about IB. It's always the same, incorrect, critiques repeated ad infinitum: perceived inflexibility, too much reading and writing (Writing for math and science? Ridiculous!), and less college credit (no credit for SL, credit for HL).

A stronger peer group at an AP school will always trump a weaker peer group at an IB school for educated parents seeking to maximize their kids’ academic potential.

My kid is at an IB school and has a strong peer group. His friends who graduated this year are going to great colleges.

Are there numbers available for the number of IB graduates per school? Seems like most of the comments are coming from one school district with lots of kids from high income families getting the IB diploma.

My high performing DC is doing the full diploma at one of the worst regarded schools in the county. Sure, the cohort is small, but it's truly a group of gifted and hardworking kids who will graduate much more prepared for college than many AP kids. And, coming from our school of our "stature" will give them a leg up in the admissions process

Kids doing the full IB diploma are better prepared than kids who only took 1 or 2 AP courses. Otherwise, no. The benefits of the stronger peer group at the AP school will leave the AP kids better prepared. Plus, why would you get a leg up in the admissions process when you don't even know if you're actually getting an IB diploma until after you've graduated from HS?

But hope your kid enjoys IB and jumping through all the hoops. For some it's a challenge they really enjoy, kind of like earning merit badges. Many others find it annoying and unduly prescriptive.

Not PP. When you have to resort to passive aggressive jabs at people instead of just stating facts, you actually undermine your argument. In order to actually look at IB vs AP, one would have to control for other things like SES, parents’ education, ESL, etc. You aren’t arguing for AP vs IB; you are saying that wealthier schools (which are AP in FCPS) have a “stronger peer group.”