When successful men with demanding jobs (doctor, lawyer) divorce, what usually causes it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Married to a surgeon. This past (holiday) weekend was specifically scheduled as a family weekend with both of us and kids. DH got called in for emergency surgery both Saturday and Sunday all afternoon. Then when he returned he was so revved up he needed to decompress—wanted a drink, then we were out of sync bc DCs and I had already spent all afternoon waiting for him instead of doing what we had planned to do all together. Then when home he was continuously called by his team with questions and updates, and also decisions about whether to accept another case(s). We wound up cancelling those plans and eventually going out for dinner/doing other things.

Both times he got called in all I said was, “good luck with the case!” You can’t begrudge someone this career if you married it. It’s a service profession, other people come before you—even before your family.

Maybe.

Or maybe the hospital team he's on is mis-managed and understaffed and take advantage of him. And thus he takes advantage of you. Unclear why you'd wait around for someone with an erratic work project.

Anyhow, the above (mismanaged, understaffed, take advantage) happens more in consulting, banking and law where nasty clients are involved and grown senior men can't manage their Inboxes or set boundaries, so operate in a constant triage work mode.

Uh, what? If you are in a specialty where emergency surgery is common, it doesn't matter how well managed the team is, it's going to happen. Sometimes once they are very established they can make it so the team can minimize the time incursion during certain times, but for a specialist surgeon, "understaffed" can just mean that the one other surgeon on staff who does that specific procedure is out of town. With emergency medicine, I don't think mismanagement is often the culprit. It's just the nature of the job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Married to a surgeon. This past (holiday) weekend was specifically scheduled as a family weekend with both of us and kids. DH got called in for emergency surgery both Saturday and Sunday all afternoon. Then when he returned he was so revved up he needed to decompress—wanted a drink, then we were out of sync bc DCs and I had already spent all afternoon waiting for him instead of doing what we had planned to do all together. Then when home he was continuously called by his team with questions and updates, and also decisions about whether to accept another case(s). We wound up cancelling those plans and eventually going out for dinner/doing other things.

Both times he got called in all I said was, “good luck with the case!” You can’t begrudge someone this career if you married it. It’s a service profession, other people come before you—even before your family.

Maybe.

Or maybe the hospital team he's on is mis-managed and understaffed and take advantage of him. And thus he takes advantage of you. Unclear why you'd wait around for someone with an erratic work project.

Anyhow, the above (mismanaged, understaffed, take advantage) happens more in consulting, banking and law where nasty clients are involved and grown senior men can't manage their Inboxes or set boundaries, so operate in a constant triage work mode.

It’s kind of bizarre to compare the urgency of someone with money being annoyed to the death or someone without money. Like, “oh, neurosurgeons have it bad on the weekends because little old ladies fall and get brain bleeds? Well, consultants have it worse because wealthy people will be mad if you don’t respond to their emails promptly!”

I’m aware that these things carry similar weight in the real world. It’s just bizarre to see them compared so overtly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My ex is a physician in I guess what you would call a "prestigious"/demanding speciality (though he's not good and has been fired multiple times...unbeknownst to his family and friends). He's also a narcissistic sociopath who is a serial cheater and pathological liar. He's shallow and only possesses fake empathy. He's obsessed with outward appearances in all ways, so he works to maintain his fake attractive facade. It's all a gigantic lie. It works for a while, until the mask falls. He's good at finding women who are good narcissistic supply for him. Sadly, I was one of them, but I finally woke up from the fog of narcissistic abuse and got out. I'm wondering when his current gf is going to finally start seeing it. I wish I could have completely cut ties with him after the divorce, but unfortunately I can't because there are kids involved.

My friend could have written this. Her ex is an ER doctor. Actually got fired from one hospital for sleeping with a nurse on the job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Married to a surgeon. This past (holiday) weekend was specifically scheduled as a family weekend with both of us and kids. DH got called in for emergency surgery both Saturday and Sunday all afternoon. Then when he returned he was so revved up he needed to decompress—wanted a drink, then we were out of sync bc DCs and I had already spent all afternoon waiting for him instead of doing what we had planned to do all together. Then when home he was continuously called by his team with questions and updates, and also decisions about whether to accept another case(s). We wound up cancelling those plans and eventually going out for dinner/doing other things.

Both times he got called in all I said was, “good luck with the case!” You can’t begrudge someone this career if you married it. It’s a service profession, other people come before you—even before your family.

I vented about my surgeon Dh on dcum a few weeks ago. I can’t stand the emergencies. Dh is very specialized and other people’s emergencies become Dh’s emergencies. It constantly throws a wrench in our plans. Other people at least seem understanding and most of our plans are catered around our kids so it doesn’t matter if he is there or comes late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My ex is a physician in I guess what you would call a "prestigious"/demanding speciality (though he's not good and has been fired multiple times...unbeknownst to his family and friends). He's also a narcissistic sociopath who is a serial cheater and pathological liar. He's shallow and only possesses fake empathy. He's obsessed with outward appearances in all ways, so he works to maintain his fake attractive facade. It's all a gigantic lie. It works for a while, until the mask falls. He's good at finding women who are good narcissistic supply for him. Sadly, I was one of them, but I finally woke up from the fog of narcissistic abuse and got out. I'm wondering when his current gf is going to finally start seeing it. I wish I could have completely cut ties with him after the divorce, but unfortunately I can't because there are kids involved.

My friend could have written this. Her ex is an ER doctor. Actually got fired from one hospital for sleeping with a nurse on the job.

This is not the norm of physicians we know. It takes so much time and discipline to make the journey to complete your medical training. I’m not saying cheating doesn’t happen and there are low performers in every profession.

[Anonymous]

Women get fat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like, specifically. Is it just that they aren't around enough? Is it job stress? Is it disconnect from spouse due to intensity of job (like your work is the biggest thing in your life, and your spouse isn't a part of it)?

I'm looking at these divorced men I know in their 50s, but then I know all these men in the same careers but younger (still married, young kids, seems fine from outside) and wondering how they go from one to the other. Divorce is common enough with these careers that there must be some commonalities, but I can't figure what.

Lack of executive functioning skills to live functionally

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Arrogance, low EQ, affairs, neglect…

+1

[Anonymous]

Doctors are just so cool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like, specifically. Is it just that they aren't around enough? Is it job stress? Is it disconnect from spouse due to intensity of job (like your work is the biggest thing in your life, and your spouse isn't a part of it)?

I'm looking at these divorced men I know in their 50s, but then I know all these men in the same careers but younger (still married, young kids, seems fine from outside) and wondering how they go from one to the other. Divorce is common enough with these careers that there must be some commonalities, but I can't figure what.

For the last couple of decades you have to be a coddled (tiger) momma's boy dork to become an MD or successful attorney. Dorky arrested development men who rarely if not never got laid in high school, college and grad school tend to turn weird as they age and get some status and money from their careers. My best friend from college divorced her MD husband in their 40s and she confessed he literally never gave her an orgasm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My ex is a physician in I guess what you would call a "prestigious"/demanding speciality (though he's not good and has been fired multiple times...unbeknownst to his family and friends). He's also a narcissistic sociopath who is a serial cheater and pathological liar. He's shallow and only possesses fake empathy. He's obsessed with outward appearances in all ways, so he works to maintain his fake attractive facade. It's all a gigantic lie. It works for a while, until the mask falls. He's good at finding women who are good narcissistic supply for him. Sadly, I was one of them, but I finally woke up from the fog of narcissistic abuse and got out. I'm wondering when his current gf is going to finally start seeing it. I wish I could have completely cut ties with him after the divorce, but unfortunately I can't because there are kids involved.

My ex-BIL is a surgeon. He thought he was God's gift. Great on paper but the entire family, even little kids, thought he was sketch; he had a weasel disposition. He was never fired from any jobs, but he turned out to be pathological liar and closeted bi-sexual - unbeknownst to my sister until a few years into their marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My ex is a physician in I guess what you would call a "prestigious"/demanding speciality (though he's not good and has been fired multiple times...unbeknownst to his family and friends). He's also a narcissistic sociopath who is a serial cheater and pathological liar. He's shallow and only possesses fake empathy. He's obsessed with outward appearances in all ways, so he works to maintain his fake attractive facade. It's all a gigantic lie. It works for a while, until the mask falls. He's good at finding women who are good narcissistic supply for him. Sadly, I was one of them, but I finally woke up from the fog of narcissistic abuse and got out. I'm wondering when his current gf is going to finally start seeing it. I wish I could have completely cut ties with him after the divorce, but unfortunately I can't because there are kids involved.

My ex-BIL is a surgeon. He thought he was God's gift. Great on paper but the entire family, even little kids, thought he was sketch; he had a weasel disposition. He was never fired from any jobs, but he turned out to be pathological liar and closeted bi-sexual - unbeknownst to my sister until a few years into their marriage.

Being highly educated is no guarantee of mental health.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like, specifically. Is it just that they aren't around enough? Is it job stress? Is it disconnect from spouse due to intensity of job (like your work is the biggest thing in your life, and your spouse isn't a part of it)?

I'm looking at these divorced men I know in their 50s, but then I know all these men in the same careers but younger (still married, young kids, seems fine from outside) and wondering how they go from one to the other. Divorce is common enough with these careers that there must be some commonalities, but I can't figure what.

For the last couple of decades you have to be a coddled (tiger) momma's boy dork to become an MD or successful attorney. Dorky arrested development men who rarely if not never got laid in high school, college and grad school tend to turn weird as they age and get some status and money from their careers. My best friend from college divorced her MD husband in their 40s and she confessed he literally never gave her an orgasm.

I teach at a medical school (3rd year psychiatry clerkship director) and haven’t seen this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like, specifically. Is it just that they aren't around enough? Is it job stress? Is it disconnect from spouse due to intensity of job (like your work is the biggest thing in your life, and your spouse isn't a part of it)?

I'm looking at these divorced men I know in their 50s, but then I know all these men in the same careers but younger (still married, young kids, seems fine from outside) and wondering how they go from one to the other. Divorce is common enough with these careers that there must be some commonalities, but I can't figure what.

For the last couple of decades you have to be a coddled (tiger) momma's boy dork to become an MD or successful attorney. Dorky arrested development men who rarely if not never got laid in high school, college and grad school tend to turn weird as they age and get some status and money from their careers. My best friend from college divorced her MD husband in their 40s and she confessed he literally never gave her an orgasm.

So true

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like, specifically. Is it just that they aren't around enough? Is it job stress? Is it disconnect from spouse due to intensity of job (like your work is the biggest thing in your life, and your spouse isn't a part of it)?

I'm looking at these divorced men I know in their 50s, but then I know all these men in the same careers but younger (still married, young kids, seems fine from outside) and wondering how they go from one to the other. Divorce is common enough with these careers that there must be some commonalities, but I can't figure what.

For the last couple of decades you have to be a coddled (tiger) momma's boy dork to become an MD or successful attorney. Dorky arrested development men who rarely if not never got laid in high school, college and grad school tend to turn weird as they age and get some status and money from their careers. My best friend from college divorced her MD husband in their 40s and she confessed he literally never gave her an orgasm.

So true

Secure the bag and make a break.

This is the way.