This is weaponized incompetence, yes? What to do about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Didn’t read the examples. He is not a good partner because he acts like a child or he does not do things to your standards.

He’s some kind of safety net either economic or social. You are happy to be frustrated because you need his income or are terrified of being alone.

Seriously if the toilet isn’t scrubbed to your liking what difference does it make. Will you die? Serious question - do you have a phobia or a medical condition.

Handling the kids…….. why do you need to tell him when anything is. He’s such a great partner and dad so why would you need to tell him about anything involving your kids?

Every other post on DCUM is this. And you have the BS partners so you fret over your kids (grades and schools and what travel sport) because your darling husbands are checked out.

There's your problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It strikes me that he is struggling with this supposed incompetence in "pink" areas; in other words, tasks that misogyny has historically relegated to women -- cleaning and child care. I say supposed because I think I agree with you; that he likely just doesn't want to do it.

I don't know what you do about this. It has got to be hella frustrating.

OP here and yes, this is a pattern with him. Sometimes he'll even vocalize it like "ugh this isn't very manly" if he's doing something he thinks of as feminine. We've talked about it and he knows this attitude is toxic and sets a bad example for the kids. I think the feigned is something he may have developed in response to this, like he wants to say "ugh no that's a woman's job" but knows that's bad so instead he's like "huh, too hard, I can't figure it out."

You probably should have titled your post with this. You would have had different responses.

My husband does this sometimes too. He’s also 45. I think younger men are better about it. It’s not that he’s a bad guy or a narcissist. He was just raised in a misogynistic culture and it comes out in these little day to day interactions.

I read Claire Keegan’s “Late in the Day” recently, and the protagonist reminded me so much of my husband. A friend of mine also recommended “Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe I'm the first husband to respond, but my thoughts are below. I don't think any of this is necessarily weaponized incompetence. In relationships, there are some things that spouses don't care about and others do and each has to figure out what's most important. My DW won't clean bathrooms, dust or do yardwork. I won't wash/fold clothes and I'm much less likely to keep things tidy, but I'll happily do big cleanings. Some things, you'll have to let go and replace with things he may be willing/competent to do.

Does he do anything around the house or is your list a short example of a ton of things he won't do?

Anonymous wrote:My DH is generally a good partner and dad. We get along. This isn't a post about how I hate him and want to change everything about him or should never have gotten married.

But I do think he "weaponizes incompetence" often. Meaning he claims to be incapable of doing things (generally related to parenting or cleaning) in order to get out of them. Examples:

- We have an extremely picky eater who eats a pretty narrow range of foods. We work with a nutritionist and our pediatrician to address the pickiness and ensure she gets enough to eat. He claims all the time he doesn't know what to feed her even though he attends these appointments and talks to these people. He "forgets" basic rules our nutritionist has given us for feeding her, like not giving her large portion sizes of anything and making sure she always has at least 3 things on her plate. I agree it's a PITA but he claims he is simply incapable of doing these things. If left to his own devices, he will give her a bowl of cereal for any meal because he can't remember what else she will eat.

Issues involving the health of child are unacceptable and this is the one that's most concerning. Call him out in front of the nutritionist/pediatrician for failure to comply with doctor's advice ("public shame" my work) and remove the excuse of "not knowing" by posting rules in the kitchen. This is the only one that should really be a "marriage/divorce" issue.

- He claims not to understand how the vacuum cleaner works. There was an incident many years ago where he used the "wrong" setting on a rug and it kind of messed up the rug. It wasn't an expensive rug and it lived in the play room and no one really cared. Since then he simply does not vacuum and if I ask him to vacuum he'll say "I don't want to mess it up, can you do it." The mistake he made is one anyone could make.

There are many ways to address this without nagging. Joke with him "Baby, I know you can handle it". Show him once. Or, if is just adverse to vacuuming, keep this one chore off his list. Also, be real about how you confronted him about using the wrong rug. Did you just mention it or were you overly critical? If the latter, maybe even apologize if it'll get you want you want.

- He claims not to understand which cleaning supplies are needed for which tasks, and as a result will only clean the bathroom if I literally set out the cleaning materials and say "this is for the toilet, this is for the shower" etc.

If the issue is that he refuses to clean, give him an option. He'll either help with the cleaning or you'll hire cleaners...he can decide. Be honest with yourself though, are you too particular about which cleaning supplies are needed for tasks. I think you probably only need two supplies (toilet cleaner and soft scrub for other surfaces) but if you want something done in a very specified way, then that should be on you.

- He defers to me on anything related to school, even though he receives all the school communications and there is no reason I would know more about any of it than he does. But he makes it sound like it's all a mystery, like who could possibly know when grades come out or that there is a school event on Friday. It's literally there on his phone, he even gets alerts and texts, and yet he talks to me like I am the oracle of all things school.

One parent is likely best qualified to handle this things and splitting the overall responsibility may not be the best solution. I handle the budget, paying of bills, house maintenance, adult social outings, etc. DW handles school activities because she is legitimately much more competent than I. I get that this obligation falls to women more often than not, but it may be because you're less likely to let things slip the cracks and it's easier to coordinate. Sorry, but those may be the breaks.

How do you address stuff like this? Again, generally a good parent and partner but he does this stuff and I'm like "You're 45, you have an advanced degree, you manage to figure this stuff out at work." I know people will say "get cleaners" for the cleaning stuff but that won't address the underlying issue which is this tendency to pretend like he's incompetent in order to force me to do things he doesn't want to do.

So you would literally go to work in soiled clothing rather than do laundry? My god.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous[b wrote:]no, it's not "weaponized" whatever. You have a personal issue. Deal with it. Stop bandaging it with new weird terms. TALK to your husband. DEAL wth the issues. Or go into therapy. posting here gives you nothig (except maybe you want positive feedback - oh gosh, who would have suspected?).

[/b]

+1 Dear OP. you are trying to make yourself the victim in this situation. You are not. YOU NEED TO MAKE BETTER CHOICES! labeling your spouses behavior and complaining here does nothing towards that goal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stop trying to make "weaponized incompetence" happen, OP.

You sound more like his mom than his wife. I'd give up on you, too.

He’s made her that way, by not being a mature partner to her.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again—I can be your mother or your wife, but choose carefully, because mommies don’t give their little boys bl*w jobs. Only adult men who pull their weight get that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Help. Teach. Make it easier. Encourage. Praise. Reward. Boast about it to others from where he can hear.

She’s already tried this to no avail. How can you make what she described any easier?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop trying to make "weaponized incompetence" happen, OP.

You sound more like his mom than his wife. I'd give up on you, too.

He’s made her that way, by not being a mature partner to her.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again—I can be your mother or your wife, but choose carefully, because mommies don’t give their little boys bl*w jobs. Only adult men who pull their weight get that. [/quote]

no need to be crude. the point that we are trying to convey to OP is that by throwing on some sort of new-age adjective like "Weaponized" whatever = doesn't help her. she and her DH need to get into therapy or some other situation where this issues can be discussesd. throwing adjectives or descriptives around doesnt help

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH is generally a good partner and dad. We get along. This isn't a post about how I hate him and want to change everything about him or should never have gotten married.

But I do think he "weaponizes incompetence" often. Meaning he claims to be incapable of doing things (generally related to parenting or cleaning) in order to get out of them. Examples:

- We have an extremely picky eater who eats a pretty narrow range of foods. We work with a nutritionist and our pediatrician to address the pickiness and ensure she gets enough to eat. He claims all the time he doesn't know what to feed her even though he attends these appointments and talks to these people. He "forgets" basic rules our nutritionist has given us for feeding her, like not giving her large portion sizes of anything and making sure she always has at least 3 things on her plate. I agree it's a PITA but he claims he is simply incapable of doing these things. If left to his own devices, he will give her a bowl of cereal for any meal because he can't remember what else she will eat.

- He claims not to understand how the vacuum cleaner works. There was an incident many years ago where he used the "wrong" setting on a rug and it kind of messed up the rug. It wasn't an expensive rug and it lived in the play room and no one really cared. Since then he simply does not vacuum and if I ask him to vacuum he'll say "I don't want to mess it up, can you do it." The mistake he made is one anyone could make.

- He claims not to understand which cleaning supplies are needed for which tasks, and as a result will only clean the bathroom if I literally set out the cleaning materials and say "this is for the toilet, this is for the shower" etc.

- He defers to me on anything related to school, even though he receives all the school communications and there is no reason I would know more about any of it than he does. But he makes it sound like it's all a mystery, like who could possibly know when grades come out or that there is a school event on Friday. It's literally there on his phone, he even gets alerts and texts, and yet he talks to me like I am the oracle of all things school.

How do you address stuff like this? Again, generally a good parent and partner but he does this stuff and I'm like "You're 45, you have an advanced degree, you manage to figure this stuff out at work." I know people will say "get cleaners" for the cleaning stuff but that won't address the underlying issue which is this tendency to pretend like he's incompetent in order to force me to do things he doesn't want to do.

Your definition of "generally a good partner and dad" is wildly different from mine

Exactly. OP says he’s a good dad and partner and then goes on to give multiple examples of how he is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH is generally a good partner and dad. We get along. This isn't a post about how I hate him and want to change everything about him or should never have gotten married.

But I do think he "weaponizes incompetence" often. Meaning he claims to be incapable of doing things (generally related to parenting or cleaning) in order to get out of them. Examples:

- We have an extremely picky eater who eats a pretty narrow range of foods. We work with a nutritionist and our pediatrician to address the pickiness and ensure she gets enough to eat. He claims all the time he doesn't know what to feed her even though he attends these appointments and talks to these people. He "forgets" basic rules our nutritionist has given us for feeding her, like not giving her large portion sizes of anything and making sure she always has at least 3 things on her plate. I agree it's a PITA but he claims he is simply incapable of doing these things. If left to his own devices, he will give her a bowl of cereal for any meal because he can't remember what else she will eat.

- He claims not to understand how the vacuum cleaner works. There was an incident many years ago where he used the "wrong" setting on a rug and it kind of messed up the rug. It wasn't an expensive rug and it lived in the play room and no one really cared. Since then he simply does not vacuum and if I ask him to vacuum he'll say "I don't want to mess it up, can you do it." The mistake he made is one anyone could make.

- He claims not to understand which cleaning supplies are needed for which tasks, and as a result will only clean the bathroom if I literally set out the cleaning materials and say "this is for the toilet, this is for the shower" etc.

- He defers to me on anything related to school, even though he receives all the school communications and there is no reason I would know more about any of it than he does. But he makes it sound like it's all a mystery, like who could possibly know when grades come out or that there is a school event on Friday. It's literally there on his phone, he even gets alerts and texts, and yet he talks to me like I am the oracle of all things school.

How do you address stuff like this? Again, generally a good parent and partner but he does this stuff and I'm like "You're 45, you have an advanced degree, you manage to figure this stuff out at work." I know people will say "get cleaners" for the cleaning stuff but that won't address the underlying issue which is this tendency to pretend like he's incompetent in order to force me to do things he doesn't want to do.

Your definition of "generally a good partner and dad" is wildly different from mine

Ok, but he does do all kinds of stuff. He does pickup/dropoff twice a week. Helps with homework. He cooks for the rest of the family at least once a week and makes enough for leftovers. He does laundry without being asked. He is kind and thoughtful towards me, will make me tea every morning or tell me to go get a workout in on the weekend while he does stuff with the kids. He's generally a kind and thoughtful parent and partner.

My issue isn't even that he doesn't want to do this stuff. If he told me "I hate vacuuming, what if you do that and I'll do something else instead," I'd be totally fine with that. If he problem solved with me about the picky eating and was like "ugh, I know I'm not getting this or following what they told us to do, maybe I need to work on this to come up with something that makes more sense to me" I'd welcome that-- like I said, the stuff we do on that front us a PITA and the only reason I've bought in is that we had reached a point where she was literally eating nothing but bread and berries and sometimes not even that and that's just not a functional diet.

It's specifically the problem of watching this 45 yr old man act like this stuff is simply beyond his mental capacity that drives me crazy. It's obviously not. Why does he pretend?

What you’re describing is the opposite of a thoughtful, considerate partner. Why can’t you see that? How could someone who acts as your husband does be described as thoughtful?! It boggles the mind. You’re trying to convince yourself that he’s really not that bad and he really does care about you and the kids. Let me tell you: if he’s acting the way you describe and if deep down he thinks his time is more valuable than yours or doing these tasks is beneath him? He is not a good partner/dad and he does not care about you and your kids enough to step up and be better.

You’re acting like he’s just demonstrating some mildly irritating traits when really the underlying issue is he doesn’t care or respect you as a truly good partner/dad does. There are way better partners, way better fathers, way better men out there so stop deluding yourself that he’s one of the good ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it is the pretending that would make me crazy. My husband and I definitely divide stuff up by strengths and weaknesses and also each manage to avoid the things we hate the most.

But neither of us is literally pretending we don’t know how to work the washer/dryer or dishwasher.

What would he do if you died? I think I would propose that question to him? Like is he never going to vacuum the house again? Would your kid just eat cereal for every meal? Is he going to remarry within 6 months??

NP here. My DH will do things like what OP describes in some areas, and I don’t think he’s feigning ignorance. It’s like there are parts of his brain that can’t make sense of certain tasks, and there is a lot he doesn’t notice at all. We did a large renovation recently, and the contractor came to find me after chatting with DH briefly.

He looked completely bemused and said “Your husband doesn’t know where your electrical panel is. Or your main water shutoff valve. I asked where we could get access to the attic, and he said he wasn’t sure if your house has an attic.”

My 10 year old was also bemused early on in the pandemic when DH asked him how to use the washing machine, which we’d had for a decade at that point. He also can’t make a meal more complicated than cereal without getting completely stressed out.

Like OP’s my DH is great with most aspects of parenting and a lot of household management stuff. Given that, I have been mostly happy to take the divide and conquer approach, and he’s been mostly happy to take on the tasks I don’t enjoy. I will say that he stepped up his household contributions during the pandemic, I think because he was home more and began to notice more. He now not only does his own laundry and all sheets and towels, but all vacuuming. Here’s hoping some of your situationally incompetent spouses turn a corner too.

Nice that the GC said anything. Usually when they talk to that stupid of a homeowner they shut up and charge triple.

Same “absent minded” husband here. He’s from Europe originally so the first couple times people assume cultural difference. After the 5h and 6th time they know he’s somewhat of a doofus.

It’s something off with his brain. We were canoeing with kids by the shore once and our host said Go this way, go this way. Everyone responds yet he is acting deaf to the host and his own kids in the canoe telling him what to do.

Lol re the bolded. Fortunately we do have a gem of a contractor. He’d done work for us before on a smaller project within DH’s wheelhouse and had no idea DH had these lacunae. The contractor informed me that I'd be his primary point of contact going forward. I didn’t like it, but realized it made the most sense.

No one outside of me and the contractor would be likely to call my DH a doofus or even absent-minded He’s an extremely successful person who more than carries his weight around the house. He just has bizarre-to-me gaps of understanding in some areas.

[Anonymous]

Again OP is scared to take a stand because it could lead to her being single (gasp and clutch pearls).

Is she married because of a social need or a financial need? Social meaning she feels like a failure or shame from being divorced. Financial she worries she won’t get the big house or material things if not married to him.

It’s quite obvious he isn’t providing emotional needs.

And he makes dinner once a week. Wow! I didn’t realize there were two days in a week. He helps w homework - he’s supposed to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]no, it's not "weaponized" whatever. You have a personal issue. Deal with it. Stop bandaging it with new weird terms. TALK to your husband. DEAL wth the issues. Or go into therapy. posting here gives you nothig (except maybe you want positive feedback - oh gosh, who would have suspected?).

[/b]

+1 Dear OP. you are trying to make yourself the victim in this situation. You are not. YOU NEED TO MAKE BETTER CHOICES! labeling your spouses behavior and complaining here does nothing towards that goal

The best choice would be divorce

[Anonymous]

My teenage boy pulls stuff like this sometimes. My standard reply is “I bet you can look that up on YouTube!”

Don’t know how to vacuum? Look it up on YouTube. Don’t know how to clean a toilet? Look it up on YouTube.

If you just consistently repeat that, the behavior should improve. Because you know and I know that it isn’t a lack of knowledge, it’s a lack of interest in engaging with problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it sounds to me like you have a history of being critical and have made the fundamental mistake of choosing to both tell him what to do AND tell him how to do it. And so he has concluded it is safest to avoid the activity, and your criticism. It's not "weaponized incompetence." It's "learned helplessness" and you probably taught him.

The nutritionist and pediatrician are telling them how to feed their kid, not OP.

And him giving her a bowl of cereal IS PERFECTLY FINE. The fact that she comes and harps on here about it is very telling. She sounds really rigid and her whole mentality is "why is he such a screw up" instead of considering "what is it about MY behavior that causes him to react this way?"

No, actually, a bowl of cereal is not fine. Because dad gets to slack off and then mom has to make it up on the back end by making sure kid has to have all the nutritious meals. It’s really not OK at all. One parent gets all the shortcuts and the other parent to compensate? No way. I’m tired of this faulty line of logic.

It’s like the dad who always gets the kid fast food, and everyone says “The kid is fed. What’s the big deal?” Well, the big deal is that mom spends all the time and energy making nutritious food so kid has some vitamins and minerals. Not fair for one parent to hog all the shortcuts. He’s doing it at wife’s expense, and he knows it.

Again, it's FINE. You're the one obssessed with "vitamins and minerals" and "nutritious food."

There's plenty of vitamins in cereal. And most fast food is perfectly portioned with a balance of carbohydrates and fats.

Obsessing about nutrition in such a way is a ticket to an eating disorder. Dad's way sounds more relaxing, which is ultimately healthier.

This is a child who ALREADY has disordered eating and is working with healthcare professionals to overcome it. The DH here is not following the medical advice for his child because he cannot be bothered.

This person sounds like they would refuse to give their kid required meds because it was "too hard". I really hope they don't have children if they are this cavalier with their health.

Oh pp. He would give his kids their required meds, but he would do it “his way.” Whatever that means.
The pediatrician can’t tell him what to do AND how to do it. Especially if she’s a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Again OP is scared to take a stand because it could lead to her being single (gasp and clutch pearls).

Is she married because of a social need or a financial need? Social meaning she feels like a failure or shame from being divorced. Financial she worries she won’t get the big house or material things if not married to him.

It’s quite obvious he isn’t providing emotional needs.

And he makes dinner once a week. Wow! I didn’t realize there were two days in a week. He helps w homework - he’s supposed to.

Or worse, single and coparenting with a ManChild like that.
Children calling you for help, lost items at his place, krap food on Dad Day, missed appts and practices because who cares, traffic accidents on vacation trips, and so on.