I don't trust doctors anymore

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was the #1 rule I’ve told my kids when they went off to college, don’t just trust what the doctor says.

Listen and discern if it makes sense, do your own research, get a 2nd opinion.

They’ve both learned that doctors are just mediocre humans doing the best they can which is mediocre.

Also, don’t just go to anyone, get recommendations, look at their track record, interview them, don’t worry about their feelings.

Doctors are not mediocre humans. They are highly educated, often overworked and underpaid, doing the best they can. Joe the plumber and all the other high school dropouts supporting Trump and the likes are mediocre humans. 50% of this country is mediocre at best, but doctors are not in that half.

Classist, and some magical thinking. Doctors, being people, have a range of human traits, including mediocrity. You're not magical. If half the country is mediocre, so are half the doctors (which tracks, IME)

That would be true if doctors were selected at random from the whole population. Are you not aware that there is an admissions process to even into med school?

Med school acceptance means you test well, and you can pay for a college education (and you probably do stimulant drugs). I know a lot of people who bought a college education and should ask for a refund because they clearly didn't learn much. It doesn't make you magically smarter than a plumber; that whole line of thinking is classist.

Ok look, I'm a lawyer and I completely bullshit my way through law school. Never went to a single class. Showed up for exams and scribbled away for three hours. I'm reasonably bright and write well. It was more than enough. But I'd say about a quarter of my graduating class was legit stupid.
Medicine doesn't work the same way. Not as many students are accepted, and you can't JUST test well. And in order to graduate, you actually need to know things.
You're right that a college education means nothing. It's so easy to get in and so easy to graduate that it's no more impressive than a second high school diploma. Masters degrees are so watered down that they'll be the same way in a few more years.
But every idiot who graduates with a Bachelors degree is not getting the grades to get into med school or passing the MCAT.

Testing well doesn't mean you listen well, relate well, or connect dots well, and it definitely doesn't mean you're caring or compassionate, all of which are essential to the practice of the art of medicine. Thinking "I passed my tests and have a degree now so I know everything and you don't" makes you a crappy doctor (and a jerk of a human).

You likely bullshitted your way past an LSAT, and should understand this concept, but bullshitting may be an advantage in your industry.

They really should have OSCEs, shouldn't they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was the #1 rule I’ve told my kids when they went off to college, don’t just trust what the doctor says.

Listen and discern if it makes sense, do your own research, get a 2nd opinion.

They’ve both learned that doctors are just mediocre humans doing the best they can which is mediocre.

Also, don’t just go to anyone, get recommendations, look at their track record, interview them, don’t worry about their feelings.

Doctors are not mediocre humans. They are highly educated, often overworked and underpaid, doing the best they can. Joe the plumber and all the other high school dropouts supporting Trump and the likes are mediocre humans. 50% of this country is mediocre at best, but doctors are not in that half.

Classist, and some magical thinking. Doctors, being people, have a range of human traits, including mediocrity. You're not magical. If half the country is mediocre, so are half the doctors (which tracks, IME)

That would be true if doctors were selected at random from the whole population. Are you not aware that there is an admissions process to even into med school?

Med school acceptance means you test well, and you can pay for a college education (and you probably do stimulant drugs). I know a lot of people who bought a college education and should ask for a refund because they clearly didn't learn much. It doesn't make you magically smarter than a plumber; that whole line of thinking is classist.

No one is saying that doctors are smarter than plumbers. Hell, I'd say plumbers are far smarter since they can start working debt free at 21, instead of starting at 30 with a quarter million dollars in debt. Better hours, less stress, you don't have to deal with other people...
The point is that you wouldn't ask a doctor to fix your toilet and you wouldn't ask your plumber for medical advice. Doctors are trained in medicine. If you don't think they learn anything in medical school, don't use their services.

PP Probablyadoc was the one who made the comparison, so I used it. If I hired a plumber to unclog my toilet, and he claimed the problem was that my showerhead needs upgrading, I'd be equally upset. If I told him my sink drains slowly and he suggested I put in a bidet, I'd be frustrated and feel like he wasn't listening. If I asked her to install a new sink, and she forgot the p-trap and connected the hot and cold backwards, I'd want those errors acknowledged and corrected, and I doubt anyone on this board would disagree. If I got billed thousands for a $2 part, I'd be furious. If this were my regular experience with plumbers, I'd lose trust in them too.

I shared my experience that some doctors are pretty shite at their job, rush, don't really listen, bring major attitude if you try to have input into your own care, and charge out the @ss for their "expertise", and got a whole lot of blowback, including people trying to gaslight and diagnonsense on a chat forum, and make excuses for how doctors are overworked/underpaid in some way that should excuse their incompetence. I disagree. Doctors claim an elevated status that doesn't necessarily come with performance to justify it. The solution so many seem willing to offer, "don't use their services", sounds lovely. Wish I could avoid them forever, plumbers and doctors alike! But bodies break down, just like pipes clog, and these services should be functional when called upon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was the #1 rule I’ve told my kids when they went off to college, don’t just trust what the doctor says.

Listen and discern if it makes sense, do your own research, get a 2nd opinion.

They’ve both learned that doctors are just mediocre humans doing the best they can which is mediocre.

Also, don’t just go to anyone, get recommendations, look at their track record, interview them, don’t worry about their feelings.

Doctors are not mediocre humans. They are highly educated, often overworked and underpaid, doing the best they can. Joe the plumber and all the other high school dropouts supporting Trump and the likes are mediocre humans. 50% of this country is mediocre at best, but doctors are not in that half.

Classist, and some magical thinking. Doctors, being people, have a range of human traits, including mediocrity. You're not magical. If half the country is mediocre, so are half the doctors (which tracks, IME)

That would be true if doctors were selected at random from the whole population. Are you not aware that there is an admissions process to even into med school?

Med school acceptance means you test well, and you can pay for a college education (and you probably do stimulant drugs). I know a lot of people who bought a college education and should ask for a refund because they clearly didn't learn much. It doesn't make you magically smarter than a plumber; that whole line of thinking is classist.

Ok look, I'm a lawyer and I completely bullshit my way through law school. Never went to a single class. Showed up for exams and scribbled away for three hours. I'm reasonably bright and write well. It was more than enough. But I'd say about a quarter of my graduating class was legit stupid.
Medicine doesn't work the same way. Not as many students are accepted, and you can't JUST test well. And in order to graduate, you actually need to know things.
You're right that a college education means nothing. It's so easy to get in and so easy to graduate that it's no more impressive than a second high school diploma. Masters degrees are so watered down that they'll be the same way in a few more years.
But every idiot who graduates with a Bachelors degree is not getting the grades to get into med school or passing the MCAT.

Testing well doesn't mean you listen well, relate well, or connect dots well, and it definitely doesn't mean you're caring or compassionate, all of which are essential to the practice of the art of medicine. Thinking "I passed my tests and have a degree now so I know everything and you don't" makes you a crappy doctor (and a jerk of a human).

You likely bullshitted your way past an LSAT, and should understand this concept, but bullshitting may be an advantage in your industry.

They really should have OSCEs, shouldn't they?

How often do they do these? Yearly? Quarterly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP I understand.

Let’s see Duke University Hospital world renowned OB told me I was dying of cancer and left me with a c section scar that no one should have.

Thank god. ( I’m not religious) however this phrase fits for me second child he was on vacation and one of his students delivered my second one.

By my third child I changed OBs

Skip to age 35 diagnosis’s by Bethesda Urology who completely disregarded my history and diagnosed me incorrectly put me through tests I did not need.

I’m done with crappy doctors especially ones that make Washingon Best doctors

Now I am super careful I have a fantastic female primary and fantastic urogyn and reg gyn and cardio no more male doctors ever again

Washingtonian Best Doctors list is a joke - do NOT trust those recommendations. Do your own research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP I understand.

Let’s see Duke University Hospital world renowned OB told me I was dying of cancer and left me with a c section scar that no one should have.

Thank god. ( I’m not religious) however this phrase fits for me second child he was on vacation and one of his students delivered my second one.

By my third child I changed OBs

Skip to age 35 diagnosis’s by Bethesda Urology who completely disregarded my history and diagnosed me incorrectly put me through tests I did not need.

I’m done with crappy doctors especially ones that make Washingon Best doctors

Now I am super careful I have a fantastic female primary and fantastic urogyn and reg gyn and cardio no more male doctors ever again

Washingtonian Best Doctors list is a joke - do NOT trust those recommendations. Do your own research.

My understanding is that list is doctors rating doctors and/or pay for play. It's like a whitecoat popularity contest, whereas healthgrades, ratemds, or even Yelp would be better for ratings from a patient perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP I understand.

Let’s see Duke University Hospital world renowned OB told me I was dying of cancer and left me with a c section scar that no one should have.

Thank god. ( I’m not religious) however this phrase fits for me second child he was on vacation and one of his students delivered my second one.

By my third child I changed OBs

Skip to age 35 diagnosis’s by Bethesda Urology who completely disregarded my history and diagnosed me incorrectly put me through tests I did not need.

I’m done with crappy doctors especially ones that make Washingon Best doctors

Now I am super careful I have a fantastic female primary and fantastic urogyn and reg gyn and cardio no more male doctors ever again

Washingtonian Best Doctors list is a joke - do NOT trust those recommendations. Do your own research.

I don't think there is a sentence in the world I hate more than this one.
Not because there's anything wrong with reading and learning independently, but because of the type of people who say it. Always the most ignorant, arrogant people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP I understand.

Let’s see Duke University Hospital world renowned OB told me I was dying of cancer and left me with a c section scar that no one should have.

Thank god. ( I’m not religious) however this phrase fits for me second child he was on vacation and one of his students delivered my second one.

By my third child I changed OBs

Skip to age 35 diagnosis’s by Bethesda Urology who completely disregarded my history and diagnosed me incorrectly put me through tests I did not need.

I’m done with crappy doctors especially ones that make Washingon Best doctors

Now I am super careful I have a fantastic female primary and fantastic urogyn and reg gyn and cardio no more male doctors ever again

Washingtonian Best Doctors list is a joke - do NOT trust those recommendations. Do your own research.

I don't think there is a sentence in the world I hate more than this one.
Not because there's anything wrong with reading and learning independently, but because of the type of people who say it. Always the most ignorant, arrogant people.

And always the people that really shouldn't be doing their own "research."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a matter of degree. It’s good to ask doctors questions and get more than one opinion. It’s idiotic to think that Google is providing you with the same expertise as someone with an MD. Every “do your own research” person goes running to the doctor in the end.

No one was suggesting internet research IN PLACE OF a medical visit. Just to help inform it.

Hard disagree. If that's the way you feel, please don't seek medical care from a doctor. Ever.

Now you are just trolling. You never read up on the conditions you have? Or to help you ask the right questions? WTF

That's not what the posters in this thread have in mind.

but pp said "info to help inform the visit" and response was "HARD DISAGREE"

Read the rest of this thread. As any provider will tell you, any patient that says "I know my body" is a red flag. Right up there with someone coming into the ER claiming to have allergies to first-line pain medications.

A red flag warning against what? Contempt of doc? Your fragile ego is a liability, and an impediment to good care.

Think about who is demonstrating an ego in this thread. And who has years of training and experience versus who has... Google.

That you don't understand how you're telling on yourself, on this thread, would be entertaining if it wasn't so dangerous.

The contempt for their patients is the most dangerous, imo.

Seriously. If you're going to belittle them, reject their input, and treat them like a number, you're dehumanizing them. If you're not going to try to help the actual human you're hired to help, wtf are you doing in that line of work?

No one is making you see a doctor.

What is the point of a doctor if not to CARE for the sick?

There are plenty of people that want to be treated by doctors. Many people in this thread seem to not want to be treated by doctors. That's fine. They can treat themselves using WebMD and Reddit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was the #1 rule I’ve told my kids when they went off to college, don’t just trust what the doctor says.

Listen and discern if it makes sense, do your own research, get a 2nd opinion.

They’ve both learned that doctors are just mediocre humans doing the best they can which is mediocre.

Also, don’t just go to anyone, get recommendations, look at their track record, interview them, don’t worry about their feelings.

This is how people ended up injecting themselves with horse dewormer to treat Covid.

Covid did a lot to damage trust between healthcare providers and people. Some of the info and guidelines we got (Covid did come from a lab, remote learning, distancing...) were in hindsight not all great. Horse dewormer is obvious insanity, but having some degree of skepticism and questioning is not a bad thing. And that is outside of the fact that healthcare is a huge business, we have med commercial on tv for some of the worst meds to drum up revenue, insurance companies guide treatment...There is a lot to fix about our system.

Wait, what..? No one has indicated that Covid came from a lab, and if that is ever determined, it literally changes nothing about our response when Covid came here. Secondly, yes, remote working and learning before vaccines and better protocol to treat Covid was absolutely necessary.

This wasn't a referendum on the health care system, it was a global pandemic. Thank goodness for our health care providers, many of whom died during this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP I understand.

Let’s see Duke University Hospital world renowned OB told me I was dying of cancer and left me with a c section scar that no one should have.

Thank god. ( I’m not religious) however this phrase fits for me second child he was on vacation and one of his students delivered my second one.

By my third child I changed OBs

Skip to age 35 diagnosis’s by Bethesda Urology who completely disregarded my history and diagnosed me incorrectly put me through tests I did not need.

I’m done with crappy doctors especially ones that make Washingon Best doctors

Now I am super careful I have a fantastic female primary and fantastic urogyn and reg gyn and cardio no more male doctors ever again

Washingtonian Best Doctors list is a joke - do NOT trust those recommendations. Do your own research.

I don't think there is a sentence in the world I hate more than this one.
Not because there's anything wrong with reading and learning independently, but because of the type of people who say it. Always the most ignorant, arrogant people.

And always the people that really shouldn't be doing their own "research."

Doing research is fine, but no one understands what actual research is. They think the internet and podcast are research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a matter of degree. It’s good to ask doctors questions and get more than one opinion. It’s idiotic to think that Google is providing you with the same expertise as someone with an MD. Every “do your own research” person goes running to the doctor in the end.

No one was suggesting internet research IN PLACE OF a medical visit. Just to help inform it.

Hard disagree. If that's the way you feel, please don't seek medical care from a doctor. Ever.

Now you are just trolling. You never read up on the conditions you have? Or to help you ask the right questions? WTF

That's not what the posters in this thread have in mind.

but pp said "info to help inform the visit" and response was "HARD DISAGREE"

Read the rest of this thread. As any provider will tell you, any patient that says "I know my body" is a red flag. Right up there with someone coming into the ER claiming to have allergies to first-line pain medications.

A red flag warning against what? Contempt of doc? Your fragile ego is a liability, and an impediment to good care.

Think about who is demonstrating an ego in this thread. And who has years of training and experience versus who has... Google.

That you don't understand how you're telling on yourself, on this thread, would be entertaining if it wasn't so dangerous.

The contempt for their patients is the most dangerous, imo.

Seriously. If you're going to belittle them, reject their input, and treat them like a number, you're dehumanizing them. If you're not going to try to help the actual human you're hired to help, wtf are you doing in that line of work?

No one is making you see a doctor.

What is the point of a doctor if not to CARE for the sick?

There are plenty of people that want to be treated by doctors. Many people in this thread seem to not want to be treated by doctors. That's fine. They can treat themselves using WebMD and Reddit.

Many people in this thread don't want to be treated like crap by the doctors they're paying for care. The options shouldn't be crap care or reddit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP I understand.

Let’s see Duke University Hospital world renowned OB told me I was dying of cancer and left me with a c section scar that no one should have.

Thank god. ( I’m not religious) however this phrase fits for me second child he was on vacation and one of his students delivered my second one.

By my third child I changed OBs

Skip to age 35 diagnosis’s by Bethesda Urology who completely disregarded my history and diagnosed me incorrectly put me through tests I did not need.

I’m done with crappy doctors especially ones that make Washingon Best doctors

Now I am super careful I have a fantastic female primary and fantastic urogyn and reg gyn and cardio no more male doctors ever again

Washingtonian Best Doctors list is a joke - do NOT trust those recommendations. Do your own research.

I don't think there is a sentence in the world I hate more than this one.
Not because there's anything wrong with reading and learning independently, but because of the type of people who say it. Always the most ignorant, arrogant people.

And always the people that really shouldn't be doing their own "research."

Doing research is fine, but no one understands what actual research is. They think the internet and podcast are research.

I think when I bring my doc a PubMed citation that's relevant to my condition, and an explanation of how I'd like it considered w/r to my treatment, she should read the thing and consider it from her medically-educated perspective, because that's what I'm paying her to do. I don't expect her to magically know everything. I expect her to consider what I'm saying, especially when I can back it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a matter of degree. It’s good to ask doctors questions and get more than one opinion. It’s idiotic to think that Google is providing you with the same expertise as someone with an MD. Every “do your own research” person goes running to the doctor in the end.

No one was suggesting internet research IN PLACE OF a medical visit. Just to help inform it.

Hard disagree. If that's the way you feel, please don't seek medical care from a doctor. Ever.

Now you are just trolling. You never read up on the conditions you have? Or to help you ask the right questions? WTF

That's not what the posters in this thread have in mind.

but pp said "info to help inform the visit" and response was "HARD DISAGREE"

Read the rest of this thread. As any provider will tell you, any patient that says "I know my body" is a red flag. Right up there with someone coming into the ER claiming to have allergies to first-line pain medications.

A red flag warning against what? Contempt of doc? Your fragile ego is a liability, and an impediment to good care.

Think about who is demonstrating an ego in this thread. And who has years of training and experience versus who has... Google.

That you don't understand how you're telling on yourself, on this thread, would be entertaining if it wasn't so dangerous.

The contempt for their patients is the most dangerous, imo.

Seriously. If you're going to belittle them, reject their input, and treat them like a number, you're dehumanizing them. If you're not going to try to help the actual human you're hired to help, wtf are you doing in that line of work?

No one is making you see a doctor.

What is the point of a doctor if not to CARE for the sick?

There are plenty of people that want to be treated by doctors. Many people in this thread seem to not want to be treated by doctors. That's fine. They can treat themselves using WebMD and Reddit.

Many people in this thread don't want to be treated like crap by the doctors they're paying for care. The options shouldn't be crap care or reddit.

People in this thread are saying that they want to be "heard", "listened to", "respected", "related to", and "cared for," and if they're not getting all of that, they are being "belittled", "dehumanized" and "treated like crap". Maybe it's just typical online hyperbole. Or maybe these expectations are simply too high.

When I see my doctor, I expect her to listen to me when I tell her my reasons for coming in and offer me her professional advice. I really hope that she will be on time. I know that my appointment lasts fifteen minutes. If I have an issue that I think might require more time than that, I will ask the receptionist to book a thirty minute appointment. I do not go online for information. I do write down a list of symptoms, concerns, questions so that the appointment will go smoothly.
Oddly enough, I get exceptional service from doctors, including follow-up phone calls that I wasn't expecting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP I understand.

Let’s see Duke University Hospital world renowned OB told me I was dying of cancer and left me with a c section scar that no one should have.

Thank god. ( I’m not religious) however this phrase fits for me second child he was on vacation and one of his students delivered my second one.

By my third child I changed OBs

Skip to age 35 diagnosis’s by Bethesda Urology who completely disregarded my history and diagnosed me incorrectly put me through tests I did not need.

I’m done with crappy doctors especially ones that make Washingon Best doctors

Now I am super careful I have a fantastic female primary and fantastic urogyn and reg gyn and cardio no more male doctors ever again

Washingtonian Best Doctors list is a joke - do NOT trust those recommendations. Do your own research.

I don't think there is a sentence in the world I hate more than this one.
Not because there's anything wrong with reading and learning independently, but because of the type of people who say it. Always the most ignorant, arrogant people.

And always the people that really shouldn't be doing their own "research."

Doing research is fine, but no one understands what actual research is. They think the internet and podcast are research.

I think when I bring my doc a PubMed citation that's relevant to my condition, and an explanation of how I'd like it considered w/r to my treatment, she should read the thing and consider it from her medically-educated perspective, because that's what I'm paying her to do. I don't expect her to magically know everything. I expect her to consider what I'm saying, especially when I can back it up.

Sounds like you don't need her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP I understand.

Let’s see Duke University Hospital world renowned OB told me I was dying of cancer and left me with a c section scar that no one should have.

Thank god. ( I’m not religious) however this phrase fits for me second child he was on vacation and one of his students delivered my second one.

By my third child I changed OBs

Skip to age 35 diagnosis’s by Bethesda Urology who completely disregarded my history and diagnosed me incorrectly put me through tests I did not need.

I’m done with crappy doctors especially ones that make Washingon Best doctors

Now I am super careful I have a fantastic female primary and fantastic urogyn and reg gyn and cardio no more male doctors ever again

Washingtonian Best Doctors list is a joke - do NOT trust those recommendations. Do your own research.

I don't think there is a sentence in the world I hate more than this one.
Not because there's anything wrong with reading and learning independently, but because of the type of people who say it. Always the most ignorant, arrogant people.

And always the people that really shouldn't be doing their own "research."

Doing research is fine, but no one understands what actual research is. They think the internet and podcast are research.

I think when I bring my doc a PubMed citation that's relevant to my condition, and an explanation of how I'd like it considered w/r to my treatment, she should read the thing and consider it from her medically-educated perspective, because that's what I'm paying her to do. I don't expect her to magically know everything. I expect her to consider what I'm saying, especially when I can back it up.

lol. How's that working out for you?