So what is changing? Questions about SC affirmative action decision

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do they keep trying to make diversity a goal, it's not the 90s anymore we should be looking for the best and brightest.

Diversity makes everyone smarter and stronger (mentally). I don't need to be in a class with 30 other people just like me. I want to learn from other people's experiences and perspectives. And I want that for my kids as well. This is true in engineering as well as humanities. You don't know what you haven't lived.

As Thomas noted in his concurrence, nobody (not even Harvard in this case) has been able to explain or quantify any educational benefit from diversity.

And in engineering, diversity is totally irrelevant. The bridge stays up, the plane flies, or not, regardless of the race of the engineer who designed them.

Not true at all.

Also, all the "PC" posters and anti- diversity posts on this site in general lately make me wonder if there aren't some political (maybe paid, maybe just trolling) posters here. Wish we could see who posts again and again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the race box will go away.

Doubt it because universities still have to track race per DOE. Also, eliminating the box will prevent the ability to determine if non-URM applicants are being discriminated against.

Most likely race info will be masked in the admissions process.

It can be done upon enrollment.

You’re missing the point. If they only collect the data at enrollment, there will be no way of determining if kids who applied were discriminated against because you wouldn’t have data by race.

You make a very interesting point. 🤔

+1

But, what would happen? If the data were not tracked by the college, is there any other way it could be determined that a college discriminated based on race? And would they (and in what direction)?

[Anonymous]

Aren't there scholarships or awards specifically geared toward black students? Is an award that is only available to certain races something that could still be considered by admissions officers, possibly as an indication of academic merit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the race box will go away.

Doubt it because universities still have to track race per DOE. Also, eliminating the box will prevent the ability to determine if non-URM applicants are being discriminated against.

Most likely race info will be masked in the admissions process.

It can be done upon enrollment.

You’re missing the point. If they only collect the data at enrollment, there will be no way of determining if kids who applied were discriminated against because you wouldn’t have data by race.

You make a very interesting point. 🤔

+1

But, what would happen? If the data were not tracked by the college, is there any other way it could be determined that a college discriminated based on race? And would they (and in what direction)?

Relevant statistics play a vital role in discrimination cases, for both the plaintiff and the defense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do they keep trying to make diversity a goal, it's not the 90s anymore we should be looking for the best and brightest.

Define best and brightest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's changing is that pretty soon the parents on this board will have lost one of their favorite reasons for why their mediocre kid didn't get into an ivy league school.

Ivy rejects will have plenty options elsewhere. There are T20, T30, T40 schools. They will be fine.

Tell that to the parents here. Have you not heard the whining around decision time? The kids that were “shut out” because they were too special to add some safeties to their list?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:for question 3:

If this is banning "race conscious admissions" then I dont think an AdCom can factor anything about race in. Including that your mom/dad went to HSBCUs, that your name reads Black, that you live in a 100% Black zip code.

I think they can give you a leg up if you talk some aspect of race up in your essay - as John Roberts says and Harvard letter basically co-signs. So now all these kids basically forced to write about this. "as a black man.." won't cut it alone, you need to really focus on some aspect of race in your upbringing.

I suspect college will work around by adding a short supplemental that says something like, "It takes a village. In 100 words, tell us how your village shaped you".

My question: Does this include Native Americans?

Native American is the most faked/made up ethnicity for people that are going to lie about their race (hello Elizabeth Warren). It would be amusing to read a 'white', privileged Brad or Madison talk about how being 'native american' affected him/her, maybe he/she was a good lacrosse player?

Hopefully this decision will make white people more honest. There has been studies showing more than 1/3 of white applicants lied about their race in the college application process.

Really? That is shameful if true. Where did you read that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the race box will go away.

Doubt it because universities still have to track race per DOE. Also, eliminating the box will prevent the ability to determine if non-URM applicants are being discriminated against.

Most likely race info will be masked in the admissions process.

It can be done upon enrollment.

You’re missing the point. If they only collect the data at enrollment, there will be no way of determining if kids who applied were discriminated against because you wouldn’t have data by race.

You make a very interesting point. 🤔

+1

But, what would happen? If the data were not tracked by the college, is there any other way it could be determined that a college discriminated based on race? And would they (and in what direction)?

Relevant statistics play a vital role in discrimination cases, for both the plaintiff and the defense.

adding ... many of the charts you've been seeing in media about the applicants' admissions statistics in the Harvard case wouldn't have existed if the boxes weren't checked and data collected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do they keep trying to make diversity a goal, it's not the 90s anymore we should be looking for the best and brightest.

Diversity makes everyone smarter and stronger (mentally). I don't need to be in a class with 30 other people just like me. I want to learn from other people's experiences and perspectives. And I want that for my kids as well. This is true in engineering as well as humanities. You don't know what you haven't lived.

As Thomas noted in his concurrence, nobody (not even Harvard in this case) has been able to explain or quantify any educational benefit from diversity.

And in engineering, diversity is totally irrelevant. The bridge stays up, the plane flies, or not, regardless of the race of the engineer who designed them.

Not true at all.

Also, all the "PC" posters and anti- diversity posts on this site in general lately make me wonder if there aren't some political (maybe paid, maybe just trolling) posters here. Wish we could see who posts again and again.

The studies showing a supposed benefit as not rigorous at all. There is a repetition crisis with these kinds of social science surveys - you publish the one time you get the results you like when several other attempts yielded different results.

And are you willing to say HBCUs are a bad choice because they lack diversity? Or is it only almost-all-white groups that can’t be innovative enough without it?

[Anonymous]

/\ are not rigorous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the race box will go away.

Doubt it because universities still have to track race per DOE. Also, eliminating the box will prevent the ability to determine if non-URM applicants are being discriminated against.

Most likely race info will be masked in the admissions process.

It can be done upon enrollment.

You’re missing the point. If they only collect the data at enrollment, there will be no way of determining if kids who applied were discriminated against because you wouldn’t have data by race.

You make a very interesting point. 🤔

+1

But, what would happen? If the data were not tracked by the college, is there any other way it could be determined that a college discriminated based on race? And would they (and in what direction)?

Relevant statistics play a vital role in discrimination cases, for both the plaintiff and the defense.

adding ... many of the charts you've been seeing in media about the applicants' admissions statistics in the Harvard case wouldn't have existed if the boxes weren't checked and data collected.

OP here: that was my point— thanks for clarifying.

If colleges or the government eliminates the ability for applicants to report race, there will be no data to prove discrimination by race. That is the point of the ruling— colleges can’t discriminate by race due to the 14th amendment. No box significantly limits the ability for additional lawsuits, especially challenging proxies for race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do they keep trying to make diversity a goal, it's not the 90s anymore we should be looking for the best and brightest.

Diversity makes everyone smarter and stronger (mentally). I don't need to be in a class with 30 other people just like me. I want to learn from other people's experiences and perspectives. And I want that for my kids as well. This is true in engineering as well as humanities. You don't know what you haven't lived.

As Thomas noted in his concurrence, nobody (not even Harvard in this case) has been able to explain or quantify any educational benefit from diversity.

And in engineering, diversity is totally irrelevant. The bridge stays up, the plane flies, or not, regardless of the race of the engineer who designed them.

Not true at all.

Also, all the "PC" posters and anti- diversity posts on this site in general lately make me wonder if there aren't some political (maybe paid, maybe just trolling) posters here. Wish we could see who posts again and again.

It's wishful thinking. I've seen the infamous McKinsey study, which is highly dubious and preached to the choir without offering anything substantive. Like this SCOTUS ruling, most people just saw the headlines and never read the ruling itself.

After all, history and the modern world show us highly homogenous societies with high degrees of accomplishment. It's very difficult to show that diversity improves outcomes beyond in limited areas. In most instances it's a moot point. I don't speak as someone who is against diversity as accomplished people come from all races and all walks of life, but the idea that a "diverse" group will have a better outcome than a homogenous group is disingenuous and not based on any meaningful quantitive data. After all, a group of multiple different ethnicities can (and often do) share the identical views and think in lockstep (hi progressive bubbles!) while groups that are homogenous on paper due to everyone being white or Asian can be hugely diverse in outlook and backgrounds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the race box will go away.

Doubt it because universities still have to track race per DOE. Also, eliminating the box will prevent the ability to determine if non-URM applicants are being discriminated against.

Most likely race info will be masked in the admissions process.

It can be done upon enrollment.

You’re missing the point. If they only collect the data at enrollment, there will be no way of determining if kids who applied were discriminated against because you wouldn’t have data by race.

You make a very interesting point. 🤔

I don't think the people who wanted this thought it through to how it will affect them, before long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's changing is that pretty soon the parents on this board will have lost one of their favorite reasons for why their mediocre kid didn't get into an ivy league school.

True, LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just look to California to see where the nation is headed. Caltech and the UC System are world class because they don't pander to PC. UC Berkeley rivals Stanford precisely for this reason.

Does PC= politically correct or people of color?

Regardless, UC’s are world class and have more diversity than any other major university system. White students are a minority making up 20% or so of the population at UCLA and Berkeley. White college-age and high school-age students are a minority in CA, so the 20% figure isn’t strange. The UC system’s priority is delivering a superior education to a state population that is diverse and multiethnic.

CA Proposition 209 bans affirmative action. Google what effect this has had on minority population at UC.