So what is changing? Questions about SC affirmative action decision

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My college sent out a video message from the president within hours of the decision that basically said nothing is going to change. My guess is that at the top private schools, nothing is going to change. There’s already so much random subjectivity in the process that it’s easy to put whatever you want into the hopper.
It will increase litigation though. As usual, not much changes but a bunch of lawyers get paid. I’m a lawyer.

Can you share the video so we can get a running start on litigation?

You do realize that there is nothing illegal or unconstitutional about schools building a class of many different students with many different sets of skills and talents from many different types of backgrounds? You do realize that, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Harvard has already been chickened out, so the number of Asian students has been increasing since the lawsuit.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/harvard-admits-record-number-asian-american-students-black-latino-admi-rcna77923

Now there will be more upward pressure, of course.
It won't be like 70%, but I can see it reaching around 40% at most of the elite to semi-elite schools.

Test-blind, race-blind schools like Caltech and Berkeley are already at that level.

On a side note, around 40% was the level at which schools began to feel uncomfortable with Jews a while ago, thus birth of the holistic BS.

DP: I also think it will be around 35-40%. The plaintiffs and several universities have developed predictive models. URM will drop by 50% on average. At Harvard that would mean that 10% of the seats will be open for white and Asian students, if ALDC and first gen status remain in place. The question will be what proportion of the seats go to Asians vs whites.

More to Whites.

That's the way the system is set up.

Duh.

Check the demographics at Caltech, UCLA, UC Berkeley.

Comparing to CA schools, especially public doesn’t make sense as they don’t have the same ALDC institutional priorities. Also, the percentage of black people is half the national average and the number of Asian people is almost 3 times the national average which will reflect the university demographics.

Michigan is a closer comparison due to state demographics and institutional priorities.

Caltech is private.
It's about 40% Asians

Before posting read the thread. This was already addressed and explained.

What?
This top 10 private school is in CA?

[Anonymous]

I stole this from another thread on the board, but I thought it was interesting.

According to the President of the University of Michigan (as quoted in the Wash Post today), U-Michigan has a commitment to a “truly holistic” admissions review, Ono said. “That means relying less on grades, numbers of AP tests, standardized test scores, ACT and SAT, and focusing more on responses to essay questions where students can actually articulate their context, their challenges that they’ve overcome."

How exactly is Michigan going to read all these essays? 87,766 first-year students applyed for fall admission this year, up 4% from the nearly 85,000 applications to the university for 2022.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I stole this from another thread on the board, but I thought it was interesting.

According to the President of the University of Michigan (as quoted in the Wash Post today), U-Michigan has a commitment to a “truly holistic” admissions review, Ono said. “That means relying less on grades, numbers of AP tests, standardized test scores, ACT and SAT, and focusing more on responses to essay questions where students can actually articulate their context, their challenges that they’ve overcome."

How exactly is Michigan going to read all these essays? 87,766 first-year students applyed for fall admission this year, up 4% from the nearly 85,000 applications to the university for 2022.

Michigan doesn’t have to read all the essays because 40-50% of applications don’t make it through academic review/stage one, which at many schools doesn’t include essays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stole this from another thread on the board, but I thought it was interesting.

According to the President of the University of Michigan (as quoted in the Wash Post today), U-Michigan has a commitment to a “truly holistic” admissions review, Ono said. “That means relying less on grades, numbers of AP tests, standardized test scores, ACT and SAT, and focusing more on responses to essay questions where students can actually articulate their context, their challenges that they’ve overcome."

How exactly is Michigan going to read all these essays? 87,766 first-year students applyed for fall admission this year, up 4% from the nearly 85,000 applications to the university for 2022.

Michigan doesn’t have to read all the essays because 40-50% of applications don’t make it through academic review/stage one, which at many schools doesn’t include essays.

what does this mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stole this from another thread on the board, but I thought it was interesting.

According to the President of the University of Michigan (as quoted in the Wash Post today), U-Michigan has a commitment to a “truly holistic” admissions review, Ono said. “That means relying less on grades, numbers of AP tests, standardized test scores, ACT and SAT, and focusing more on responses to essay questions where students can actually articulate their context, their challenges that they’ve overcome."

How exactly is Michigan going to read all these essays? 87,766 first-year students applyed for fall admission this year, up 4% from the nearly 85,000 applications to the university for 2022.

Michigan doesn’t have to read all the essays because 40-50% of applications don’t make it through academic review/stage one, which at many schools doesn’t include essays.

not sure what that process is, but it would still leave 42,500 essays to read.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stole this from another thread on the board, but I thought it was interesting.

According to the President of the University of Michigan (as quoted in the Wash Post today), U-Michigan has a commitment to a “truly holistic” admissions review, Ono said. “That means relying less on grades, numbers of AP tests, standardized test scores, ACT and SAT, and focusing more on responses to essay questions where students can actually articulate their context, their challenges that they’ve overcome."

How exactly is Michigan going to read all these essays? 87,766 first-year students applyed for fall admission this year, up 4% from the nearly 85,000 applications to the university for 2022.

Michigan doesn’t have to read all the essays because 40-50% of applications don’t make it through academic review/stage one, which at many schools doesn’t include essays.

what does this mean?

These Reddit post by former AO explains:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/vtlu8t/how_your_academic_score_determines_what_happens/

https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/vs2mgq/how_do_admissions_offices_actually_process_50k/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stole this from another thread on the board, but I thought it was interesting.

According to the President of the University of Michigan (as quoted in the Wash Post today), U-Michigan has a commitment to a “truly holistic” admissions review, Ono said. “That means relying less on grades, numbers of AP tests, standardized test scores, ACT and SAT, and focusing more on responses to essay questions where students can actually articulate their context, their challenges that they’ve overcome."

How exactly is Michigan going to read all these essays? 87,766 first-year students applyed for fall admission this year, up 4% from the nearly 85,000 applications to the university for 2022.

Michigan doesn’t have to read all the essays because 40-50% of applications don’t make it through academic review/stage one, which at many schools doesn’t include essays.

what does this mean?

It means that a big chunk of the 80,000 applicants are eliminated in the first round (either due to low gpa, low sat/act, etc…)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stole this from another thread on the board, but I thought it was interesting.

According to the President of the University of Michigan (as quoted in the Wash Post today), U-Michigan has a commitment to a “truly holistic” admissions review, Ono said. “That means relying less on grades, numbers of AP tests, standardized test scores, ACT and SAT, and focusing more on responses to essay questions where students can actually articulate their context, their challenges that they’ve overcome."

How exactly is Michigan going to read all these essays? 87,766 first-year students applyed for fall admission this year, up 4% from the nearly 85,000 applications to the university for 2022.

Michigan doesn’t have to read all the essays because 40-50% of applications don’t make it through academic review/stage one, which at many schools doesn’t include essays.

what does this mean?

It means that a big chunk of the 80,000 applicants are eliminated in the first round (either due to low gpa, low sat/act, etc…)

Many schools are admitting upward of 40% test optional applicants. If you don't submit scores you can't be filtered out by some automation. Actual people will read your file.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I stole this from another thread on the board, but I thought it was interesting.

According to the President of the University of Michigan (as quoted in the Wash Post today), U-Michigan has a commitment to a “truly holistic” admissions review, Ono said. “That means relying less on grades, numbers of AP tests, standardized test scores, ACT and SAT, and focusing more on responses to essay questions where students can actually articulate their context, their challenges that they’ve overcome."

How exactly is Michigan going to read all these essays? 87,766 first-year students applyed for fall admission this year, up 4% from the nearly 85,000 applications to the university for 2022.

Oy vey. What a nightmare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is one perspective that goes to question 3).

California's had a ban on affirmative action for a long while, and schools absolutely look at other metrics. It would be a mistake to think they are just looking for a proxy for race, though. They are looking for specific qualities, such as perseverance and willingness to serve their communities of origin, and that focus has an incidental impact of increasing racial diversity (including of under-represented Asian American groups such as Vietnamese and Hmong refugees).

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/12/1181794808/how-one-medical-school-diversified-its-student-body-under-an-affirmative-action-

Yuk.
So immigrants who barely escaped their "communities of origin" to build a better life must now "serve" those who prevented them in the first place? Like sending money to al-Assad and Putin?

[Anonymous]

Elite Universities will try different schemes to try and produce racial diversity. Every one of these will by definition be racially gerrymandered because the challenge is that there is a pipeline problem in admission that none of these schemes can address. The only way to get a racially diverse class when there is a pipeline problem is to give racial preferences ( hidden or explicit ) in some way or other to boost URM enrollment and the Supreme Court has clearly said that

"universities
may not simply establish through application essays or
other means the regime we hold unlawful today."

So expect a lot of lawsuits challenging all such schemes that are facially racially neutral but produce disparate outcomes by race consistently and reflect the same class demographics and adequate URM students year after year

This battle is just getting started

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Elite Universities will try different schemes to try and produce racial diversity. Every one of these will by definition be racially gerrymandered because the challenge is that there is a pipeline problem in admission that none of these schemes can address. The only way to get a racially diverse class when there is a pipeline problem is to give racial preferences ( hidden or explicit ) in some way or other to boost URM enrollment and the Supreme Court has clearly said that

"universities
may not simply establish through application essays or
other means the regime we hold unlawful today."

So expect a lot of lawsuits challenging all such schemes that are facially racially neutral but produce disparate outcomes by race consistently and reflect the same class demographics and adequate URM students year after year

This battle is just getting started

Using race-neutral means and essays.

That's a start.

Elite colleges will still get their URM numbers. The demand is there. They'll still get the applications from top URMs to fill a class. The "data" that Ed Blum and company used, like SAT scores, won't be there under test optional.

Making test optional or test blind the new normal will be the key result of this ruling.

[Anonymous]

Why do people keep striving for admittance to these elite universities? Is it because they are top quality? Do they trust these institutions to make sound decisions? Do applicants agree with their positions? If these top ranked unis value diversity, shouldn’t the applicants as well? If the applicants opinions don’t align with the university’s, shouldn’t they apply elsewhere? I would never apply to Liberty U for example, as it differs greatly from my points of view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elite Universities will try different schemes to try and produce racial diversity. Every one of these will by definition be racially gerrymandered because the challenge is that there is a pipeline problem in admission that none of these schemes can address. The only way to get a racially diverse class when there is a pipeline problem is to give racial preferences ( hidden or explicit ) in some way or other to boost URM enrollment and the Supreme Court has clearly said that

"universities
may not simply establish through application essays or
other means the regime we hold unlawful today."

So expect a lot of lawsuits challenging all such schemes that are facially racially neutral but produce disparate outcomes by race consistently and reflect the same class demographics and adequate URM students year after year

This battle is just getting started

Using race-neutral means and essays.

That's a start.

Elite colleges will still get their URM numbers. The demand is there. They'll still get the applications from top URMs to fill a class. The "data" that Ed Blum and company used, like SAT scores, won't be there under test optional.

Making test optional or test blind the new normal will be the key result of this ruling.

There is no race neutral means that will produce the same result in terms of numbers like a race conscious scheme. Harvard Ave all the amicus briefs by other elite schools admit that.. Because the skills gap in the application pipeline is so great between the races, you can only achieve diversity through racial gerrymandering which is what elite schools will keep trying to do. The other side will keep dragging then to court