So what is changing? Questions about SC affirmative action decision

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is one perspective that goes to question 3).

California's had a ban on affirmative action for a long while, and schools absolutely look at other metrics. It would be a mistake to think they are just looking for a proxy for race, though. They are looking for specific qualities, such as perseverance and willingness to serve their communities of origin, and that focus has an incidental impact of increasing racial diversity (including of under-represented Asian American groups such as Vietnamese and Hmong refugees).

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/12/1181794808/how-one-medical-school-diversified-its-student-body-under-an-affirmative-action-

It will further diminish use of standardized scores. California banned their use largely because factoring them would decrease racial diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is there anything preventing every black applicant from starting their essay "as a black man/woman..." ?

The Supreme Court decision pretty much says that that is fine. If there were hardships that were overcome due to race, that can be factored in admissions. The place to express those hardships would be essays. It could be that essays make a comeback.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one knows. Just apply and see what happens. Too much hand-wringing in this forum.

“Just apply” where? How do you build a list if you have no idea what colleges are looking for?

?? Why, did you depend on affirmative action? Just go ahead and apply where you are competitive -- and as has said a million times, pick some "matches" and "safeties."

No, I depended on SAT scores. I can’t figure out if they matter anymore, or how they matter, or for whom.

Asians want whites to give up their spots at the top schools, because there are too many Asians.

The Asians are competing against each other, and they don't even know it. Plus, they want to tell schools how to admit, and that is not going to happen. This is not a dictatorship.

It is not a dictatorship .. that’s why they sued! We know Asians are fighting each other for spots and being assumed that you lack of personality for your last name is racist

[Anonymous]

Everyone says California has pushed SAT and ACT aside.

But the fact is, APs carry more weight in California than any other state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will Georgetown FINALLY have to drop their picture requirement??

Georgetown is one of the better looking t30s for a reason

Literally every single pretty rich white society girl I know is going to either Georgetown or Vanderbilt.

You forgot to mention smart. As in every single pretty, rich, smart…” because dummies don’t get in to those schools.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know if today's ruling will affect professional schools, such as medical school or law school? Affirmative action makes more sense to me for professional schools, for the same reason that you want a police force to roughly reflect the racial makeup of the community they serve. Similarly, doctors will be better able to serve a community if their racial makeup reflects that of the community they serve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone says California has pushed SAT and ACT aside.

But the fact is, APs carry more weight in California than any other state.

AP test scores

Source?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the race box will go away.

Doubt it because universities still have to track race per DOE. Also, eliminating the box will prevent the ability to determine if non-URM applicants are being discriminated against.

Most likely race info will be masked in the admissions process.

+1 the box just became even more important, but it is required for data Universities have to report. Applicants don't have to use it, but schools have to show they tried to collect it in good faith. However, the data from this box will not go to the admissions reviewers.

I don’t trust that they couldn’t see the box. How exactly is that one item blocked out on the form just for AOs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So is there anything preventing every black applicant from starting their essay "as a black man/woman..." ?

No, but the rest of your application better back it up. In addition, if your last name is Wang, Cohen, Buyniski, etc, you better provide an additional explanation. Otherwise, you run the risk of appearing fraudulent. Denied!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the race box will go away.

Doubt it because universities still have to track race per DOE. Also, eliminating the box will prevent the ability to determine if non-URM applicants are being discriminated against.

Most likely race info will be masked in the admissions process.

+1 the box just became even more important, but it is required for data Universities have to report. Applicants don't have to use it, but schools have to show they tried to collect it in good faith. However, the data from this box will not go to the admissions reviewers.

I don’t trust that they couldn’t see the box. How exactly is that one item blocked out on the form just for AOs?

An electronic filter. Same thing happens with the financial aid box at need-blind schools. Only certain fields are viewable by admissions.

My guess is that Common App could also decide, on its own, not to include the field in the download that goes to the colleges, but then the colleges would need to collect the data on the back end of the admissions process. (In all honesty, I don't understand what is difficult about that, other than - perhaps - a student may be slightly more likely to indicate their URM status in admissions than at the time of enrollment.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the race box will go away.

Doubt it because universities still have to track race per DOE. Also, eliminating the box will prevent the ability to determine if non-URM applicants are being discriminated against.

Most likely race info will be masked in the admissions process.

+1 the box just became even more important, but it is required for data Universities have to report. Applicants don't have to use it, but schools have to show they tried to collect it in good faith. However, the data from this box will not go to the admissions reviewers.

I don’t trust that they couldn’t see the box. How exactly is that one item blocked out on the form just for AOs?

An electronic filter. Same thing happens with the financial aid box at need-blind schools. Only certain fields are viewable by admissions.

My guess is that Common App could also decide, on its own, not to include the field in the download that goes to the colleges, but then the colleges would need to collect the data on the back end of the admissions process. (In all honesty, I don't understand what is difficult about that, other than - perhaps - a student may be slightly more likely to indicate their URM status in admissions than at the time of enrollment.)

Why do they need that data? If they can’t discriminate on race, why do they need that demographic race info?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the race box will go away.

Doubt it because universities still have to track race per DOE. Also, eliminating the box will prevent the ability to determine if non-URM applicants are being discriminated against.

Most likely race info will be masked in the admissions process.

It can be done upon enrollment.

You’re missing the point. If they only collect the data at enrollment, there will be no way of determining if kids who applied were discriminated against because you wouldn’t have data by race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the race box will go away.

Doubt it because universities still have to track race per DOE. Also, eliminating the box will prevent the ability to determine if non-URM applicants are being discriminated against.

Most likely race info will be masked in the admissions process.

This whole notion of discrimination against the majority admits is misplaced. Non URMs account for far great numbers of admits than URMs. The right wing is really spinning this whole case. The link in the earlier PP's post explains the need for diversity in admissions. There are issues with AA, and I understand some of the court's reasoning, but this notion of discrimination against students who account for the majority of admits, or the idea that only certain metrics equate to merit is off base.
To answer OP, I suspect the box will be there, but admissions officers will not receive that data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the race box will go away.

Doubt it because universities still have to track race per DOE. Also, eliminating the box will prevent the ability to determine if non-URM applicants are being discriminated against.

Most likely race info will be masked in the admissions process.

It can be done upon enrollment.

You’re missing the point. If they only collect the data at enrollment, there will be no way of determining if kids who applied were discriminated against because you wouldn’t have data by race.

You make a very interesting point. 🤔

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the race box will go away.

Doubt it because universities still have to track race per DOE. Also, eliminating the box will prevent the ability to determine if non-URM applicants are being discriminated against.

Most likely race info will be masked in the admissions process.

+1 the box just became even more important, but it is required for data Universities have to report. Applicants don't have to use it, but schools have to show they tried to collect it in good faith. However, the data from this box will not go to the admissions reviewers.

I don’t trust that they couldn’t see the box. How exactly is that one item blocked out on the form just for AOs?

An electronic filter. Same thing happens with the financial aid box at need-blind schools. Only certain fields are viewable by admissions.

My guess is that Common App could also decide, on its own, not to include the field in the download that goes to the colleges, but then the colleges would need to collect the data on the back end of the admissions process. (In all honesty, I don't understand what is difficult about that, other than - perhaps - a student may be slightly more likely to indicate their URM status in admissions than at the time of enrollment.)

Why do they need that data? If they can’t discriminate on race, why do they need that demographic race info?

They are required to report it to the federal Department of Ed.

This hasn't come up much in these discussions, but that reporting requirement is one reason URM was a hook. At what point should the federal government stop requiring this data?