Why did NVSL move relay carnival a week earlier and do we think this change is permanent?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The whole season is too early now. It is conflicting with spring Rec sport end of season. That didn’t used to happen.

With school starting well before Labor Day in NoVa now, what are the options? We’ve established the true nutters don’t think anyone should travel during summer swim. So you want 2 weeks of the summer anyone can travel? Get real. Things overlap. Pick your priority.

Holding the All-Star meet on the first Saturday in August also creates a conflict with the Eastern Zone Long Course meets. There were a number of NVSL all-stars who swam in both meets last year. They would have to choose if the All-Star meet were a week later.

This is a small number of kids so no offense who cares.

The bigger issue is giving all families to have some time to travel.

It’s a smaller number of kids, but generally there are a lot of club swimmers amongst the All Stars, so Zones is a consideration. Let me guess, you’re one of the parents that hopes faster kids can’t make it to All Stars so your kid has a shot.

I genuinely don’t give a shit about All Stars iand spoiler, the vast majority of people participating in summer swim don’t.

Sure, but if the league is going to continue to hold an "All-Star" meet, they should at least try to make it accessible to the best swimmers in the league. Some parents won't be happy until the league stops holding All-Stars and divisionals just so little Johnny has a better chance at making the 8 and under relay carnival.

What's not accessible about it? It doesn't conflict with any major holiday or other NVSL event. They can't concern themselves with every other activity in the universe.

As other posters have pointed out, when the NVSL all star event is the same weekend as the long course zone meet it waters down the all star meet. Might as well call NVSL all stars a B meet if it's held on the same day as a major competition for the top PVS swimmers.

Or you could call All Stars a rec league championship. Which is what it's supposed to be...

+1000
Swimmers who qualify for both can choose which is more important. They still get the patch even if they scratch don’t they? Moving it a week earlier may remove the conflict with Zones but there are other big meets that weekend, Futures, etc. No time is perfect. It is a great opportunity for kids to prioritize and no it doesn’t water down All-Stars which is based on one swim and many of the kids at that level are separated by a tenth of a second.

This is not a new problem either. I remember missing my league’s version of All Stars for the Middle Atlantic Zone meet or Jr Nats or some other big LC meet at least once. And at least one other year I benefited from other swimmers being away at a big meet and was able to win an event and place higher than usual in other events because they weren’t there. My times from a summer LC meet were what got me recruited by higher level D1 schools than I would have if I had skipped long course championship season and done summer league All Stars instead. It showed an upward trajectory from spring to summer at a crucial time. Colleges aren’t recruiting off summer league meets. And if your kid is younger than college recruiting age, or not on that path… then it really doesn’t matter what they choose. It should just be whatever makes them happy or what their coach thinks is best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole season is too early now. It is conflicting with spring Rec sport end of season. That didn’t used to happen.

With school starting well before Labor Day in NoVa now, what are the options? We’ve established the true nutters don’t think anyone should travel during summer swim. So you want 2 weeks of the summer anyone can travel? Get real. Things overlap. Pick your priority.

Holding the All-Star meet on the first Saturday in August also creates a conflict with the Eastern Zone Long Course meets. There were a number of NVSL all-stars who swam in both meets last year. They would have to choose if the All-Star meet were a week later.

This is a small number of kids so no offense who cares.

The bigger issue is giving all families to have some time to travel.

It’s a smaller number of kids, but generally there are a lot of club swimmers amongst the All Stars, so Zones is a consideration. Let me guess, you’re one of the parents that hopes faster kids can’t make it to All Stars so your kid has a shot.

I genuinely don’t give a shit about All Stars iand spoiler, the vast majority of people participating in summer swim don’t.

Sure, but if the league is going to continue to hold an "All-Star" meet, they should at least try to make it accessible to the best swimmers in the league. Some parents won't be happy until the league stops holding All-Stars and divisionals just so little Johnny has a better chance at making the 8 and under relay carnival.

What's not accessible about it? It doesn't conflict with any major holiday or other NVSL event. They can't concern themselves with every other activity in the universe.

As other posters have pointed out, when the NVSL all star event is the same weekend as the long course zone meet it waters down the all star meet. Might as well call NVSL all stars a B meet if it's held on the same day as a major competition for the top PVS swimmers.

Or you could call All Stars a rec league championship. Which is what it's supposed to be...

+1000
Swimmers who qualify for both can choose which is more important. They still get the patch even if they scratch don’t they? Moving it a week earlier may remove the conflict with Zones but there are other big meets that weekend, Futures, etc. No time is perfect. It is a great opportunity for kids to prioritize and no it doesn’t water down All-Stars which is based on one swim and many of the kids at that level are separated by a tenth of a second.

This is not a new problem either. I remember missing my league’s version of All Stars for the Middle Atlantic Zone meet or Jr Nats or some other big LC meet at least once. And at least one other year I benefited from other swimmers being away at a big meet and was able to win an event and place higher than usual in other events because they weren’t there. My times from a summer LC meet were what got me recruited by higher level D1 schools than I would have if I had skipped long course championship season and done summer league All Stars instead. It showed an upward trajectory from spring to summer at a crucial time. Colleges aren’t recruiting off summer league meets. And if your kid is younger than college recruiting age, or not on that path… then it really doesn’t matter what they choose. It should just be whatever makes them happy or what their coach thinks is best.

Oh and it did not “cheapen” the All Stars win to know that technically someone who wasn’t there could have beaten me. First place is first place and I was high point winner for my age group that year. I was proud of myself regardless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Time Trials are basically an extra practice. They don't even hand out ribbons. It's not the end of the world if your kid or someone else's kid misses Time Trials. Coaches will get a time for them in practice or at the B meet. Life will go on.

A lot of teams don’t allow practice times to count for seeding. And still lots of conflicts for that first B meet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Time Trials are basically an extra practice. They don't even hand out ribbons. It's not the end of the world if your kid or someone else's kid misses Time Trials. Coaches will get a time for them in practice or at the B meet. Life will go on.

A lot of teams don’t allow practice times to count for seeding. And still lots of conflicts for that first B meet.

AFAIK our first B meet is not until after the first A meet. That’s the way it always is for our team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Time Trials are basically an extra practice. They don't even hand out ribbons. It's not the end of the world if your kid or someone else's kid misses Time Trials. Coaches will get a time for them in practice or at the B meet. Life will go on.

A lot of teams don’t allow practice times to count for seeding. And still lots of conflicts for that first B meet.

AFAIK our first B meet is not until after the first A meet. That’s the way it always is for our team.

In the just fun version of NVSL I've experienced over the years everyone has a chance to register a time for consideration in the first A meet. Whether they show up for time trials or not. I highly doubt that teams -- in the ultra competitive version of NVSL I only read about on this board (hopefully somewhat in parody) -- are benching All Star swimmers for the first A meets simply because they didn't show up for time trials. And even if they did, there are still plenty of other chances to swim. We've had kids show up in week 2 or 3, after spring sports, and still be competitive in Divisionals. If your kids want to swim, let them swim when the opportunities arise. If they you want to be in the band, tell them to join the band. If they want to do everything, help them prioritize. Don't expect every league or activity to cater to your unique circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Time Trials are basically an extra practice. They don't even hand out ribbons. It's not the end of the world if your kid or someone else's kid misses Time Trials. Coaches will get a time for them in practice or at the B meet. Life will go on.

A lot of teams don’t allow practice times to count for seeding. And still lots of conflicts for that first B meet.

AFAIK our first B meet is not until after the first A meet. That’s the way it always is for our team.

In the just fun version of NVSL I've experienced over the years everyone has a chance to register a time for consideration in the first A meet. Whether they show up for time trials or not. I highly doubt that teams -- in the ultra competitive version of NVSL I only read about on this board (hopefully somewhat in parody) -- are benching All Star swimmers for the first A meets simply because they didn't show up for time trials. And even if they did, there are still plenty of other chances to swim. We've had kids show up in week 2 or 3, after spring sports, and still be competitive in Divisionals. If your kids want to swim, let them swim when the opportunities arise. If they you want to be in the band, tell them to join the band. If they want to do everything, help them prioritize. Don't expect every league or activity to cater to your unique circumstances.

For our mid-Division team, we are absolutely benching any swimmer who does not attend time trials or the designated make up (I think Tuesday afternoon?). Practice times or last year’s times will not be counted. This is only fair to the kids that show up.

[Anonymous]

Our team has time trials and our first B meet before the first A meet. We don't let kids use times from practice or last year, but they have two opportunities to try and get at least a few times.

I'm a PP whose family does prioritize summer swim but doesn't have All Star caliber swimmers. Mine swim A meets basically every other year when at the top of their AG, so I'm not saying this as some super competitive family, but as one that loves the summer swim experience. We have friends who do travel sports and swim is their secondary summer activity. We have friends who go on vacation or to sleepaway camp and swim is their secondary activity. We have families missing some evening practices due to prep for exams or SOLs or end of school year activities or spring sports.

It's all okay, I promise. Make the choices that work best for your family and move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Time Trials are basically an extra practice. They don't even hand out ribbons. It's not the end of the world if your kid or someone else's kid misses Time Trials. Coaches will get a time for them in practice or at the B meet. Life will go on.

A lot of teams don’t allow practice times to count for seeding. And still lots of conflicts for that first B meet.

AFAIK our first B meet is not until after the first A meet. That’s the way it always is for our team.

In the just fun version of NVSL I've experienced over the years everyone has a chance to register a time for consideration in the first A meet. Whether they show up for time trials or not. I highly doubt that teams -- in the ultra competitive version of NVSL I only read about on this board (hopefully somewhat in parody) -- are benching All Star swimmers for the first A meets simply because they didn't show up for time trials. And even if they did, there are still plenty of other chances to swim. We've had kids show up in week 2 or 3, after spring sports, and still be competitive in Divisionals. If your kids want to swim, let them swim when the opportunities arise. If they you want to be in the band, tell them to join the band. If they want to do everything, help them prioritize. Don't expect every league or activity to cater to your unique circumstances.

For our mid-Division team, we are absolutely benching any swimmer who does not attend time trials or the designated make up (I think Tuesday afternoon?). Practice times or last year’s times will not be counted. This is only fair to the kids that show up.

That's nuts.

[Anonymous]

Our team won't let anyone swim
In an A meet without a time trial, makeup time trial or B meet time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our team won't let anyone swim
In an A meet without a time trial, makeup time trial or B meet time.

Make-up time trial = after practice at our pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our team won't let anyone swim
In an A meet without a time trial, makeup time trial or B meet time.

Ours does not do this. We have plenty of kids who skip time trials, don’t do B meets and rarely practice with the team yet they’re front and center every Saturday morning. Last years times are definitely taken into account for seeding. I’m guessing this is coach-dependent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our team won't let anyone swim
In an A meet without a time trial, makeup time trial or B meet time.

You must have a really big team with a lot of good swimmers.

Our coach knows the kids well and knows who is fast. With that if a kid misses time trials or the fist B meet, thus doesn't have any current times, they will still be on the roster.

Last year some kids missed time trials and then the B meet a few nights later was cancelled halfway through due to thunder storms. So we had a lot of kids without times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Time Trials are basically an extra practice. They don't even hand out ribbons. It's not the end of the world if your kid or someone else's kid misses Time Trials. Coaches will get a time for them in practice or at the B meet. Life will go on.

Our team only counts Time Trials and meet times for purposes of seeding. On deck times are not the same as a race. They will use last year's time if the swimmer has been swimming all year, but not if they have not been in the water since summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Time Trials are basically an extra practice. They don't even hand out ribbons. It's not the end of the world if your kid or someone else's kid misses Time Trials. Coaches will get a time for them in practice or at the B meet. Life will go on.

A lot of teams don’t allow practice times to count for seeding. And still lots of conflicts for that first B meet.

AFAIK our first B meet is not until after the first A meet. That’s the way it always is for our team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Time Trials are basically an extra practice. They don't even hand out ribbons. It's not the end of the world if your kid or someone else's kid misses Time Trials. Coaches will get a time for them in practice or at the B meet. Life will go on.

A lot of teams don’t allow practice times to count for seeding. And still lots of conflicts for that first B meet.

AFAIK our first B meet is not until after the first A meet. That’s the way it always is for our team.

Really? Our first B meet is always right after Time Trials. It gives the coaches more times to seed with.