URMs Feeling Pressure to Prove Themselves

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the ugly side of living in a highly educated “liberal” community. The hypocrisy in these comments is truly astounding.

Seems to me the people who are saying "this is what happens when we have aa" are the ones who probably don't support aa in college admissions. I don't see those comments as hypocritical. Your mistake is that you think everyone on dcum is a progressive liberal who supports aa. That's not the case.

Also, imagine being an Asian American, having high stats, all the right E.C.s, leadership positions, etc.. and still being passed over for someone with less stats than this student. Don't tell me you would not feel like it wasn't fair.

Yea, the system is not "fair'. Life's not fair. Tell that to OP.

The assumption is that all “high stat” kids are truly high stat. Google cheating at the HS level and the prevalence of cheating rings ie getting copies of the tests, taking photos and sharing the answers with other students, signaling the answers to multiple choice questions, having other students take the test for you, special accommodations, hacking computers to change grades, crowd sourcing homework etc. Varsity Blues exposed the despicable extent parents and kids are willing to go to obtain admittance to top schools.

What’s absurd and unimaginable is the fact that colleges, students and parents knew it was happening. But sure, blame the small percentages of URMs that actually make up college admissions. In fact, Asian students are over represented compared to their percentage of the US population. So no, I don’t believe URM should be singled out with snide comments any more than a female admit to a STEM program.

You won't find cheating rings like this at low ranking, low performing, poor high schools. So when admissions officers see one of those kids float near the top with high SAT and AP scores they can be absolutely certain they did it on their own.

This is definitely sarcasm.

Please, the ^PP is saying that only non URM UMC cheat? GTFO.

And who says high ed must reflect the overall population? Maybe Asian Americans are over represented because they work harder? oh, wait, according to you, they all cheated to get there. But not URM. They never cheat.

ffs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard. My husband and I are URM and people have always questioned the schools we went to, ivy and top 20. It almost feels like you have to work even harder to prove that you achieved anything on merit. As much assume affirmative action, we were both top of our respective high school class and he was top of his college class (phi beta kappa) before going to ivy law school with multiple ECs and national awards etc. Yet, people always assume that we only got there bc of affirmative action. Now, even in biglaw, it still doesn’t end. Other partners and associates can graduate from random place whereas every URM has to be from a better law school to be at the same firm. It never ends.

It doesn’t mean you’re not qualified. It just means that there were many qualified applicants, and that’s what helped you secure your spot.

+1 why are people having such a hard time accepting it when the stats reflect exactly this.

If you don't want to feel this way, advocate to get rid of any kind of hook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was a biracial white-passing minority at an elite college in the 90s and knew immediately literally everyone in my class was far smarter and cutthroat. It was awful. And in January of my first year my advisors were trying to get me to consider the easiest majors just because I aced an easy intro class everyone aces. Not try harder and here’s some resources, they just wanted me in an easy department. Being the dumb kid sucks. EVERYONE know you only got in because of affirmative action. Not to say most peers are mean and won’t socialize with you, it’s just you can tell they know you’re not on their level.

Lol I am white and had that situation— I was affirmative action due to geography.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son applied to top schools as an Asian boy ranked second in his class from a top private (not in DC) and was waitlisted or denied at most. He had top rigor, NMF, qualified for AIME couple of times and ranked for his activity nationally. Luckily, he managed to get into all the top publics for CS - Michigan, Berkeley and UCLA. As he went through the process, his classmates showed real grace and were often there to sympathize with him as he got the results. Everyone knows about college admissions as well as the kids. Even kids who got in as legacy, URM or athletic recruits were very gracious throughout the process. No one was in denail about the process.Thank God for public schools with race blind admissions, he had good choices. Now at Berkeley, he tells me that there are many kids who are as qualified or better qualified than him, so he seems happy.

You said he was waitlisted or denied AT MOST (not all). And that is the point of the process. To get in to a school that will provide you with a good education. You can only attend one, remember. And your son had multiple options. He admits that Berkley has plenty of people who are just as smart as him (many of whom, I assume were not Asian). Your post suggested you and he were somewhat surprised to find that.

NO ONE is a shoe for admission to the United States' most selective schools. That is a statistical fact. And your kid is no different. Every high school has a top kid (yours was second), and there are 27,000 high schools in the US. (About 25% of those are private). So, your child was lucky, but I am glad he is happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's terrible people say rude things. Your daughter sounds amazing. Congrats on her acceptances!

I sincerely doubt that anyone says what OP is claiming, and I’ve been active in both private and public high schools. No one says that

OP here. I assure you, these comments have come from parents of my kid’s peers. One, I clearly remember, was the same mom who, back when they were in Kindergarten, asked if I would “let” my kid date a Black person. I was in shock! I grew up in a liberal state, and was not ready for this kind of comment. Just a few months ago, this same mom said to me, “You know, your kid will have an easier time getting into XX University, because you are Hispanic”. Which in some cases may be true, but kid did get high grades, and deserves to be there.

I have also heard, “Well, if my kid were were Hispanic, we would totally use that to our advantage”

well, yea. Your kid put their race on the application; it was to their advantage.

No one is saying your kid didn't work hard, but unfortunately, this is the problem with using "holistic admissions" as a form of affirmative action.

Would you support policies that purely look at stats and not "holistic" demographics?

+1

Two things can be true. Your kid deserves to be there and they were chosen due to a hook. URM, legacy, donor, athlete—these matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son applied to top schools as an Asian boy ranked second in his class from a top private (not in DC) and was waitlisted or denied at most. He had top rigor, NMF, qualified for AIME couple of times and ranked for his activity nationally. Luckily, he managed to get into all the top publics for CS - Michigan, Berkeley and UCLA. As he went through the process, his classmates showed real grace and were often there to sympathize with him as he got the results. Everyone knows about college admissions as well as the kids. Even kids who got in as legacy, URM or athletic recruits were very gracious throughout the process. No one was in denail about the process.Thank God for public schools with race blind admissions, he had good choices. Now at Berkeley, he tells me that there are many kids who are as qualified or better qualified than him, so he seems happy.

You said he was waitlisted or denied AT MOST (not all). And that is the point of the process. To get in to a school that will provide you with a good education. You can only attend one, remember. And your son had multiple options. He admits that Berkley has plenty of people who are just as smart as him (many of whom, I assume were not Asian). Your post suggested you and he were somewhat surprised to find that.

NO ONE is a shoe for admission to the United States' most selective schools. That is a statistical fact. And your kid is no different. Every high school has a top kid (yours was second), and there are 27,000 high schools in the US. (About 25% of those are private). So, your child was lucky, but I am glad he is happy.

So it just happened that the top three schools he got into were race-blind? Lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the ugly side of living in a highly educated “liberal” community. The hypocrisy in these comments is truly astounding.

Seems to me the people who are saying "this is what happens when we have aa" are the ones who probably don't support aa in college admissions. I don't see those comments as hypocritical. Your mistake is that you think everyone on dcum is a progressive liberal who supports aa. That's not the case.

Also, imagine being an Asian American, having high stats, all the right E.C.s, leadership positions, etc.. and still being passed over for someone with less stats than this student. Don't tell me you would not feel like it wasn't fair.

Yea, the system is not "fair'. Life's not fair. Tell that to OP.

The assumption is that all “high stat” kids are truly high stat. Google cheating at the HS level and the prevalence of cheating rings ie getting copies of the tests, taking photos and sharing the answers with other students, signaling the answers to multiple choice questions, having other students take the test for you, special accommodations, hacking computers to change grades, crowd sourcing homework etc. Varsity Blues exposed the despicable extent parents and kids are willing to go to obtain admittance to top schools.

What’s absurd and unimaginable is the fact that colleges, students and parents knew it was happening. But sure, blame the small percentages of URMs that actually make up college admissions. In fact, Asian students are over represented compared to their percentage of the US population. So no, I don’t believe URM should be singled out with snide comments any more than a female admit to a STEM program.

You won't find cheating rings like this at low ranking, low performing, poor high schools. So when admissions officers see one of those kids float near the top with high SAT and AP scores they can be absolutely certain they did it on their own.

This is definitely sarcasm.

Please, the ^PP is saying that only non URM UMC cheat? GTFO.

And who says high ed must reflect the overall population? Maybe Asian Americans are over represented because they work harder? oh, wait, according to you, they all cheated to get there. But not URM. They never cheat.

ffs

Struck a nerve? I never stated any of the above, I stated not all “high stat” kids are truly high stats.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you need some new friends. None of my friends have been anything other than ecstatic for what my son gets.

[Anonymous]

You don’t like people stating the fact that your kid has a hook as an URM, but you support that she legally has a hook as a URM.

Smh

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a URM from a middle class family in Fairfax County. A language other than English is often spoken in our house. Both parents are grads of US universities. My kid has high stats, has been admitted to some sought after universities. I feel they are constantly having to prove themselves in front of their non-URM friends. In addition, I often get the “Your kid will have an advantage in college admissions” comments. It irks me to no end! My kid worked very hard for those grades. Non URM kids from their grade were admitted to comprable schools with similar-possibly lower scores.

They are still working hard in their classes (as they should), while some of her classmates are enjoying some senioritis. If you are a parent to a high performing URM, do you notice this as well? It just makes me sad how they still feel the pressure to show they deserve to attend a prestigious university.

I am so sorry that you and your child are experiencing this. I totally understand and feel your pain. It's so misfortunate, but high stats URMs will encounter more scrutiny and bigotry.

I was the high stats URM student years ago. Now I am the parent of high stats URM students. I think my children are under more pressure than I was at their age. It breaks my heart to bare witness to the level of intensity, insanity, and scrutiny that my children are encountering. My oldest will probably graduate second in his class at a school that is predominately white and Asian. Let's just say, I can write a book about high stats URMs and the pressure to prove themselves. Some of the things that people primarily white parents have said to me are so awful and smacks of bigotry.

An educated URM is feared in this country because we do not adhere to the narrative or stereotypical box that is forced upon us. Some people can't wrap their brains around our children being anything but less than and inferior to them. Being intellectual in black or brown skin is a threat to the masses in America. The powers that be will do everything to try to knock your child down. Tell your children to be and stay strong in the storm of pressure.

I wish you and your children the best of luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is what people such as the Most Honorable Justice Thomas has had to face among racists. And get this. There was no affirmative action when the Most Honorable Justice Thomas applied to college.

The cost of affirmative action.

He’s a moron so not a good example for any perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a URM from a middle class family in Fairfax County. A language other than English is often spoken in our house. Both parents are grads of US universities. My kid has high stats, has been admitted to some sought after universities. I feel they are constantly having to prove themselves in front of their non-URM friends. In addition, I often get the “Your kid will have an advantage in college admissions” comments. It irks me to no end! My kid worked very hard for those grades. Non URM kids from their grade were admitted to comprable schools with similar-possibly lower scores.

They are still working hard in their classes (as they should), while some of her classmates are enjoying some senioritis. If you are a parent to a high performing URM, do you notice this as well? It just makes me sad how they still feel the pressure to show they deserve to attend a prestigious university.

I am so sorry that you and your child are experiencing this. I totally understand and feel your pain. It's so misfortunate, but high stats URMs will encounter more scrutiny and bigotry.

I was the high stats URM student years ago. Now I am the parent of high stats URM students. I think my children are under more pressure than I was at their age. It breaks my heart to bare witness to the level of intensity, insanity, and scrutiny that my children are encountering. My oldest will probably graduate second in his class at a school that is predominately white and Asian. Let's just say, I can write a book about high stats URMs and the pressure to prove themselves. Some of the things that people primarily white parents have said to me are so awful and smacks of bigotry.

An educated URM is feared in this country because we do not adhere to the narrative or stereotypical box that is forced upon us. Some people can't wrap their brains around our children being anything but less than and inferior to them. Being intellectual in black or brown skin is a threat to the masses in America. The powers that be will do everything to try to knock your child down. Tell your children to be and stay strong in the storm of pressure.

I wish you and your children the best of luck!

I presume that since affirmative action places so much stress and pressure and scrutiny that kids from certain communities are encountering, then it should no longer be. Right?

It puts intense pressure and stress on Asian kids who have to do ten times more to prove their worth too.

Seems like affirmative action is doing no kid any favors and seriously harming the mental health of black, brown AND Asian kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When requirements are lower for certain groups (whether race, legacy, gender, etc) than for others, and where there are far more qualified candidates than available slots, it would seem simply correct to state that the people in those groups have an easier time being admitted and that there is not a level playing field. That doesn’t at all mean that they are not qualified and won’t do a terrific job, or won’t make the best and a terrific use of the opportunity. But to simultaneously state your legacy status, race, or gender on an application, knowing that it is to your benefit, and then to express frustration that others recognize this basic fact, seems disingenuous.

I personally am quite glad that there is affirmative action. I think it is good for our society and the right choice. I also know that, on average, my kids will need to score multiple hundreds of points higher than their wealthy URM and legacy classmates at the top of DC private. Is that fair or equitable on the small scale? I think not. Does it make sense to me on the wider scale? To me, yes. But that doesn’t mean that it is not social engineering and that some applicants are held to higher standards. I don’t think that it is inaccurate or offensive to point that out. It’s simply the truth of the policy choice that has been made. But when my daughter is around her primarily URM friends, and they kid her that she and two other girls (Indian descent) in their group should go study, because they actually have to do well on their ACTs, that’s feels true to her. And the kids all know and seem to accept it. Do any of the parents actually think the kids don’t see the different admissions standard applied to certain groups (race, legacy, in certain contexts gender)? They’ve been friends and in school together for years. They are friends, date each other, are in study groups together, etc. does anyone actually think they don’t see that lower grades/scores/activities are required for legacies and URMs, and for goodness sakes that their Asian friends are expected to walk on water to have the same admissions. Could anyone actually say otherwise, regardless of whether you think this is a good policy choice?

Same but with child at a DC magnet. DD did not apply ED to a top school as a legacy because she did not want people assuming she got in only because of the legacy.

Well that’s stupid. You don’t have to tell people you were a legacy. Duh. Unless she didn’t think she could get it and had another more likely choice anyway. Which is perfectly fine but then don’t blame it on “peoples perceptions of her legacy”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a URM from a middle class family in Fairfax County. A language other than English is often spoken in our house. Both parents are grads of US universities. My kid has high stats, has been admitted to some sought after universities. I feel they are constantly having to prove themselves in front of their non-URM friends. In addition, I often get the “Your kid will have an advantage in college admissions” comments. It irks me to no end! My kid worked very hard for those grades. Non URM kids from their grade were admitted to comprable schools with similar-possibly lower scores.

They are still working hard in their classes (as they should), while some of her classmates are enjoying some senioritis. If you are a parent to a high performing URM, do you notice this as well? It just makes me sad how they still feel the pressure to show they deserve to attend a prestigious university.

I am so sorry that you and your child are experiencing this. I totally understand and feel your pain. It's so misfortunate, but high stats URMs will encounter more scrutiny and bigotry.

I was the high stats URM student years ago. Now I am the parent of high stats URM students. I think my children are under more pressure than I was at their age. It breaks my heart to bare witness to the level of intensity, insanity, and scrutiny that my children are encountering. My oldest will probably graduate second in his class at a school that is predominately white and Asian. Let's just say, I can write a book about high stats URMs and the pressure to prove themselves. Some of the things that people primarily white parents have said to me are so awful and smacks of bigotry.

An educated URM is feared in this country because we do not adhere to the narrative or stereotypical box that is forced upon us. Some people can't wrap their brains around our children being anything but less than and inferior to them. Being intellectual in black or brown skin is a threat to the masses in America. The powers that be will do everything to try to knock your child down. Tell your children to be and stay strong in the storm of pressure.

I wish you and your children the best of luck!

Sure, I’m assuming you kids will still check the box on application?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard. My husband and I are URM and people have always questioned the schools we went to, ivy and top 20. It almost feels like you have to work even harder to prove that you achieved anything on merit. As much assume affirmative action, we were both top of our respective high school class and he was top of his college class (phi beta kappa) before going to ivy law school with multiple ECs and national awards etc. Yet, people always assume that we only got there bc of affirmative action. Now, even in biglaw, it still doesn’t end. Other partners and associates can graduate from random place whereas every URM has to be from a better law school to be at the same firm. It never ends.

Bolded is the same for legacy admits, recruited athletes, regardless of whether they had stats etc. Welcome to the club.

I don't think these experiences are comparable. Once one has graduated, how would anyone know if the person was an athlete or legacy (assuming their name isn't Roosevelt, Obama, Harriman, etc.)? If one is a URM, I would assume the issue would extend far beyond university because people can see that you present as Black or your last name is "Latino" or whatever. I am a white lady who supports AA in college admissions and in hiring. But I imagine that one of the unintended consequences of AA is that snarky assumption that AA played a role in *everyone's* achievements if they are a URM. One shouldn't have to be a brilliant mind like Condoleezza Rice or Vernon Jordan to be assumed to be worthy of one's position in competitive environments.