Anyone else here struggle with your feelings about ppl who don’t work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes! I think I'm in a similar life-place to you, OP. People who are just straight up wealthy don't bother me as much as 1) SAHM in rocky marriages who would be in a precarious position if divorced, 2) single middle aged women who stopped working with no visible means of support and complain about not having enough money, 3) single middle aged women who have some ridiculous rich-lady side hustle but no real job who complain about not having enough money, 4) divorced women who are in constant battles over child support but continue to rely on their ex rather than developing a strategy to make enough money to provide for themselves. In all cases these are smart, capable people with college degrees.

I think I get upset because I work hard out of fear that I'll end up living in a van down by the river and I have a weird resentment of women who don't react to their financial distress by buckling down and getting a job.

+1

Or the ones who complain their IL's don't give them or "their children" enough money for private school, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes! I think I'm in a similar life-place to you, OP. People who are just straight up wealthy don't bother me as much as 1) SAHM in rocky marriages who would be in a precarious position if divorced, 2) single middle aged women who stopped working with no visible means of support and complain about not having enough money, 3) single middle aged women who have some ridiculous rich-lady side hustle but no real job who complain about not having enough money, 4) divorced women who are in constant battles over child support but continue to rely on their ex rather than developing a strategy to make enough money to provide for themselves. In all cases these are smart, capable people with college degrees.

I think I get upset because I work hard out of fear that I'll end up living in a van down by the river and I have a weird resentment of women who don't react to their financial distress by buckling down and getting a job.

Wow, you really have a lot of problems with other women.

You know, women talk about the patriarchy and sexism but this post here tells you what women are really up against -- the cruel judgment of other women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that focusing on whether or not that SAHMs of school-aged kids are making a bad choice is the wrong way to think about OP’s issue. It actually doesn’t matter. The issue is that OP is apparently having an outsized reaction to things that don’t impact her and that she can’t do anything about. People make terrible decisions all the time, and it’s important to notice when our reaction to those decisions are having a negative impact on our lives. Those reactions tell us about ourselves and might point to something in our life that we could actually change and make better.

I have had to work through this with a therapist. I used to ruminate in the shower about the way that some husbands treated their wives and this sort of got me down, even though my husband is amazing! And I didnt have this intense reaction to hearing about things that were objectively worse. Talking with my therapist, I realized that when I heard about men treating their wives badly, it subconsciously reminded me of my mom complaining of my dad treating her badly and sort of got me in that same headspace. I think I was ultimately a little unsure about my husband’s love and commitment for me. I worked on how to feel more secure in my marriage and on accepting the fact that life is always uncertain. Just thinking “well maybe these wives are exaggerating how bad it was” wouldn’t have helped.

Op - this is maybe it.
I think I was brought up and educated to believe that everyone should be contributing to society and that doing ‘nothing’ all day is inherently ‘less than’. So I have worked SO hard to fulfil that ‘destiny’ - and done work in politics and ngos and news and on campaigns etc. but I’m also tired so it’s like my trigger is my exhaustion and stress fighting with what my parents and very expensive private school raised me to think was ‘correct’

I’m one of the PPs, and newly SAH with school age kids. This was it for me, too. My parents revere and respect work and really imparted that to us. I get contributing to society. I worked almost continuously from 15-40 and also had some kids! You have contributed. You are still contributing if you’re bringing up kids and I bet you have decades left of useful healthy life in front of you and will do more work for the benefit of society, however you define it. It’s ok to be at leisure, too. If you think about it, so much human endeavor is about making life easier, more efficient, and more comfortable for people so that in theory we CAN enjoy leisure. But for some reason, instead of taking advantage of all those efficiencies and labor saving technology, we make ourselves work more.

You don’t owe society or capitalism your labor. Nothing wrong with taking some time to enjoy if you can afford it (which all that working and saving allowed me to do).

Capitalism? No. Society? Yes. Otherwise you're just a parasite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes! I think I'm in a similar life-place to you, OP. People who are just straight up wealthy don't bother me as much as 1) SAHM in rocky marriages who would be in a precarious position if divorced, 2) single middle aged women who stopped working with no visible means of support and complain about not having enough money, 3) single middle aged women who have some ridiculous rich-lady side hustle but no real job who complain about not having enough money, 4) divorced women who are in constant battles over child support but continue to rely on their ex rather than developing a strategy to make enough money to provide for themselves. In all cases these are smart, capable people with college degrees.

I think I get upset because I work hard out of fear that I'll end up living in a van down by the river and I have a weird resentment of women who don't react to their financial distress by buckling down and getting a job.

Op - yessss this is it.
Our hhi is nearly $1m and my parents still tut tutted at me for wanting to take a winter vaca bc ‘it is expensive at that time and you should be saving and can you take the time off’. I was raised to sort of disdain inactivity. I’m so tired tho

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that focusing on whether or not that SAHMs of school-aged kids are making a bad choice is the wrong way to think about OP’s issue. It actually doesn’t matter. The issue is that OP is apparently having an outsized reaction to things that don’t impact her and that she can’t do anything about. People make terrible decisions all the time, and it’s important to notice when our reaction to those decisions are having a negative impact on our lives. Those reactions tell us about ourselves and might point to something in our life that we could actually change and make better.

I have had to work through this with a therapist. I used to ruminate in the shower about the way that some husbands treated their wives and this sort of got me down, even though my husband is amazing! And I didnt have this intense reaction to hearing about things that were objectively worse. Talking with my therapist, I realized that when I heard about men treating their wives badly, it subconsciously reminded me of my mom complaining of my dad treating her badly and sort of got me in that same headspace. I think I was ultimately a little unsure about my husband’s love and commitment for me. I worked on how to feel more secure in my marriage and on accepting the fact that life is always uncertain. Just thinking “well maybe these wives are exaggerating how bad it was” wouldn’t have helped.

Op - this is maybe it.
I think I was brought up and educated to believe that everyone should be contributing to society and that doing ‘nothing’ all day is inherently ‘less than’. So I have worked SO hard to fulfil that ‘destiny’ - and done work in politics and ngos and news and on campaigns etc. but I’m also tired so it’s like my trigger is my exhaustion and stress fighting with what my parents and very expensive private school raised me to think was ‘correct’

I’m one of the PPs, and newly SAH with school age kids. This was it for me, too. My parents revere and respect work and really imparted that to us. I get contributing to society. I worked almost continuously from 15-40 and also had some kids! You have contributed. You are still contributing if you’re bringing up kids and I bet you have decades left of useful healthy life in front of you and will do more work for the benefit of society, however you define it. It’s ok to be at leisure, too. If you think about it, so much human endeavor is about making life easier, more efficient, and more comfortable for people so that in theory we CAN enjoy leisure. But for some reason, instead of taking advantage of all those efficiencies and labor saving technology, we make ourselves work more.

You don’t owe society or capitalism your labor. Nothing wrong with taking some time to enjoy if you can afford it (which all that working and saving allowed me to do).

Capitalism? No. Society? Yes. Otherwise you're just a parasite.

Arbeit macht frei, baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have these sort of involuntary mental reactions to - for example - social media posts from friends whose kids are in school full time but they don’t have a job/ anything they do - and they’re just doing nothing. I work crazy bananas hard and always have - and make a pretty decent salary. At one point I stopped working when the kids were little - but got pretty depressed and went back. Am I just jealous of them? I don’t want to be judgmental so why does my brain do this? I’m sure it is hiding a deeper feeling and my therapist has said I need to figure out what is triggering me

I don't struggle with my feelings. I'm very comfortable judging them.

Our society functions because people work. Those who choose not to work are riding on the coattails of those who do. Most/all of them have value to add to society, yet they decline to do so. That's selfish.

There's a lot of grey space in this perception. Some SAHM/Ds are contributing through the legitimate care of their young or SN kids while others are somehow okay justifying their days of yoga and book clubs by pointing to their clean house and transportation of middle-schoolers to soccer practice - things the rest of us do on top of full time employment. Some wealthy unemployed dedicate their lives to worthy causes, while others post on IG for clout.

I don't think this is a matter for therapy. It's okay to judge poor behavior. And enjoying the benefits of our society/culture/country while failing to contribute is exactly that.

Can I ask you a logistical question? How does someone with a full-time job keep their house clean, get their kids to school/activities and all the other places kids need to be (with all the stuff they need with them for those activities)?

I'm not being snarky, I don't understand how this works. My kids are still young and I am trying to figure out how to make this work as they age into school and the best we've come up with is "hire housecleaners and a nanny to drive them to things and stay on top of laundry/food/etc." And as I'm pricing that out and looking at our salaries.... I am confused as to how other families make this work. I don't want to quit my job to clean the house and chauffeur the kids but I also just do not understand how this works logistically if you really do have two full time jobs, especially if they are both in person jobs and not the kind with flexible hours.

PP here.

It's a good question. It can be hard and sometimes something can slip - laundry piles up, you grab take-out instead of cooking, you don't change the sheets as often as you used to. Your life will evolve to reflect your priorities. Ultimately, though, I think it's the corollary to Parkinson's Law which says work expands to fill the time allotted. Work can also compress to fill less time.

But I know that's not a helpful answer, even if it's the right one. More tactically, you need to find the support structures that help you. We never had a nanny, but we did use our school's after-school care through elementary. We shared transportation duties with other parents. Etc, etc. But, if I'm honest, for us the two biggest things have been 1) having a short commute and 2) having at least one spouse with a flexible job. Those two elements make us lucky, but I've seen plenty of parents make it work without those advantages.

+1 I will say the only actual jealousy I ever feel is toward those who have parents around who help with the kids. Those are the dual income parents who have it all imo!

PP. Totally agreed.

Same. Especially felt pangs of jealously when my parents opted to move near my sister when we both had young kids. I understood it -- it was a nicer area for retirement and my sister really needed their help more but still can't help my emotional reaction.

I did very PT/flexible freelance work when my kids were little so most of my "mom friends" then were SAHMs. Went back to work FT in an office, but still flexible hours, when youngest started K so now know a lot of parents who never took a career break. Some of my old SAHM friends went back to career jobs, some took part-time "hobby" type jobs, others stayed fully SAHMs. Everyone is trying to do their best given their individual circumstances. You likely don't know everything that goes into those choices so it's silly to judge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't struggle with my feelings. I'm very comfortable judging them.

Our society functions because people work. Those who choose not to work are riding on the coattails of those who do. Most/all of them have value to add to society, yet they decline to do so. That's selfish.

There's a lot of grey space in this perception. Some SAHM/Ds are contributing through the legitimate care of their young or SN kids while others are somehow okay justifying their days of yoga and book clubs by pointing to their clean house and transportation of middle-schoolers to soccer practice - things the rest of us do on top of full time employment. Some wealthy unemployed dedicate their lives to worthy causes, while others post on IG for clout.

I don't think this is a matter for therapy. It's okay to judge poor behavior. And enjoying the benefits of our society/culture/country while failing to contribute is exactly that.

Judge away but you have no idea why people make the choices they do. Maybe one spouse works tons of hours with no flexibility and the family prefers one person to stay home. Maybe some people judge those who outsource everything and act like it’s the same as staying home. There are people who think that’s poor behavior, too. Maybe some people actually like a lower key lifestyle and accept the financial hits that come from that. Maybe some people have family issues/illnesses that you know nothing about. Lots of times those are the ones who do the most outward posting. Bottom line is different things work for different people.

Like I said, there is plenty of grey area. And I tend to not judge where I don't have adequate visibility. But I know plenty of SAHP - mostly moms - who are sitting on expensive educations that they've never really used because they favor lattes and yoga instead of work.

Anonymous wrote:

I don't struggle with my feelings. I'm very comfortable judging them.

Okay loser, no one cares about your judgment.

I hope they don't. I'm certainly not broadcasting it to them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't struggle with my feelings. I'm very comfortable judging them.

Our society functions because people work. Those who choose not to work are riding on the coattails of those who do. Most/all of them have value to add to society, yet they decline to do so. That's selfish.

There's a lot of grey space in this perception. Some SAHM/Ds are contributing through the legitimate care of their young or SN kids while others are somehow okay justifying their days of yoga and book clubs by pointing to their clean house and transportation of middle-schoolers to soccer practice - things the rest of us do on top of full time employment. Some wealthy unemployed dedicate their lives to worthy causes, while others post on IG for clout.

I don't think this is a matter for therapy. It's okay to judge poor behavior. And enjoying the benefits of our society/culture/country while failing to contribute is exactly that.

That’s just ridiculous. There are many ways to contribute to society. When I stayed at home, I volunteered a great deal. I do think this kind of rigid thinking and judgment is rooted in something else. I don’t think PP is merely a jerk.

What you've described is exactly what I've described. You're defending yourself by detailing substantial volunteer work - which tells me that you also value people who contribute to society instead of sitting on their asses. Sounds like we're of the same mind.

If a life of leisure makes them happy, why do you care? Care about your own choices. I find work fulfilling and don't enjoy too much time in the house. Life is short, to each her own!

Because that's not how society works. There are no impactless decisions - our lives are all complexly intertwined. And we shouldn't look kindly upon those who take without contributing.

Arguably the single biggest contribution one can make to society is raising healthy, well-adjusted children who will themselves contribute when they come of age. Some working parents are able to do that in addition to work. Others believe it is a FT endeavor, and simply make different choices in their lives. Yes, of course it's complex and there are usually trade-offs either way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that focusing on whether or not that SAHMs of school-aged kids are making a bad choice is the wrong way to think about OP’s issue. It actually doesn’t matter. The issue is that OP is apparently having an outsized reaction to things that don’t impact her and that she can’t do anything about. People make terrible decisions all the time, and it’s important to notice when our reaction to those decisions are having a negative impact on our lives. Those reactions tell us about ourselves and might point to something in our life that we could actually change and make better.

I have had to work through this with a therapist. I used to ruminate in the shower about the way that some husbands treated their wives and this sort of got me down, even though my husband is amazing! And I didnt have this intense reaction to hearing about things that were objectively worse. Talking with my therapist, I realized that when I heard about men treating their wives badly, it subconsciously reminded me of my mom complaining of my dad treating her badly and sort of got me in that same headspace. I think I was ultimately a little unsure about my husband’s love and commitment for me. I worked on how to feel more secure in my marriage and on accepting the fact that life is always uncertain. Just thinking “well maybe these wives are exaggerating how bad it was” wouldn’t have helped.

Op - this is maybe it.
I think I was brought up and educated to believe that everyone should be contributing to society and that doing ‘nothing’ all day is inherently ‘less than’. So I have worked SO hard to fulfil that ‘destiny’ - and done work in politics and ngos and news and on campaigns etc. but I’m also tired so it’s like my trigger is my exhaustion and stress fighting with what my parents and very expensive private school raised me to think was ‘correct’

I’m one of the PPs, and newly SAH with school age kids. This was it for me, too. My parents revere and respect work and really imparted that to us. I get contributing to society. I worked almost continuously from 15-40 and also had some kids! You have contributed. You are still contributing if you’re bringing up kids and I bet you have decades left of useful healthy life in front of you and will do more work for the benefit of society, however you define it. It’s ok to be at leisure, too. If you think about it, so much human endeavor is about making life easier, more efficient, and more comfortable for people so that in theory we CAN enjoy leisure. But for some reason, instead of taking advantage of all those efficiencies and labor saving technology, we make ourselves work more.

You don’t owe society or capitalism your labor. Nothing wrong with taking some time to enjoy if you can afford it (which all that working and saving allowed me to do).

Capitalism? No. Society? Yes. Otherwise you're just a parasite.

Arbeit macht frei, baby.

Idk if the sign they had on concentration camps next to the word ‘baby’ is achieving what you want it to here

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that focusing on whether or not that SAHMs of school-aged kids are making a bad choice is the wrong way to think about OP’s issue. It actually doesn’t matter. The issue is that OP is apparently having an outsized reaction to things that don’t impact her and that she can’t do anything about. People make terrible decisions all the time, and it’s important to notice when our reaction to those decisions are having a negative impact on our lives. Those reactions tell us about ourselves and might point to something in our life that we could actually change and make better.

I have had to work through this with a therapist. I used to ruminate in the shower about the way that some husbands treated their wives and this sort of got me down, even though my husband is amazing! And I didnt have this intense reaction to hearing about things that were objectively worse. Talking with my therapist, I realized that when I heard about men treating their wives badly, it subconsciously reminded me of my mom complaining of my dad treating her badly and sort of got me in that same headspace. I think I was ultimately a little unsure about my husband’s love and commitment for me. I worked on how to feel more secure in my marriage and on accepting the fact that life is always uncertain. Just thinking “well maybe these wives are exaggerating how bad it was” wouldn’t have helped.

Op - this is maybe it.
I think I was brought up and educated to believe that everyone should be contributing to society and that doing ‘nothing’ all day is inherently ‘less than’. So I have worked SO hard to fulfil that ‘destiny’ - and done work in politics and ngos and news and on campaigns etc. but I’m also tired so it’s like my trigger is my exhaustion and stress fighting with what my parents and very expensive private school raised me to think was ‘correct’

I’m one of the PPs, and newly SAH with school age kids. This was it for me, too. My parents revere and respect work and really imparted that to us. I get contributing to society. I worked almost continuously from 15-40 and also had some kids! You have contributed. You are still contributing if you’re bringing up kids and I bet you have decades left of useful healthy life in front of you and will do more work for the benefit of society, however you define it. It’s ok to be at leisure, too. If you think about it, so much human endeavor is about making life easier, more efficient, and more comfortable for people so that in theory we CAN enjoy leisure. But for some reason, instead of taking advantage of all those efficiencies and labor saving technology, we make ourselves work more.

You don’t owe society or capitalism your labor. Nothing wrong with taking some time to enjoy if you can afford it (which all that working and saving allowed me to do).

Capitalism? No. Society? Yes. Otherwise you're just a parasite.

Says who? The grandma up the lane who SAH, bakes for the neighborhood kids, volunteers at the library sometimes, and is generally a nice neighbor is contributing. Her next door neighbor plows the lane and helps people clear trees when they come down. I’m a compliance specialist at a tech company and work 45 hours a week for money. We all have enough to live on and pay taxes. Who’s doing more for “society”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't struggle with my feelings. I'm very comfortable judging them.

Our society functions because people work. Those who choose not to work are riding on the coattails of those who do. Most/all of them have value to add to society, yet they decline to do so. That's selfish.

There's a lot of grey space in this perception. Some SAHM/Ds are contributing through the legitimate care of their young or SN kids while others are somehow okay justifying their days of yoga and book clubs by pointing to their clean house and transportation of middle-schoolers to soccer practice - things the rest of us do on top of full time employment. Some wealthy unemployed dedicate their lives to worthy causes, while others post on IG for clout.

I don't think this is a matter for therapy. It's okay to judge poor behavior. And enjoying the benefits of our society/culture/country while failing to contribute is exactly that.

Judge away but you have no idea why people make the choices they do. Maybe one spouse works tons of hours with no flexibility and the family prefers one person to stay home. Maybe some people judge those who outsource everything and act like it’s the same as staying home. There are people who think that’s poor behavior, too. Maybe some people actually like a lower key lifestyle and accept the financial hits that come from that. Maybe some people have family issues/illnesses that you know nothing about. Lots of times those are the ones who do the most outward posting. Bottom line is different things work for different people.

Like I said, there is plenty of grey area. And I tend to not judge where I don't have adequate visibility. But I know plenty of SAHP - mostly moms - who are sitting on expensive educations that they've never really used because they favor lattes and yoga instead of work.

Anonymous wrote:

I don't struggle with my feelings. I'm very comfortable judging them.

Okay loser, no one cares about your judgment.

I hope they don't. I'm certainly not broadcasting it to them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't struggle with my feelings. I'm very comfortable judging them.

Our society functions because people work. Those who choose not to work are riding on the coattails of those who do. Most/all of them have value to add to society, yet they decline to do so. That's selfish.

There's a lot of grey space in this perception. Some SAHM/Ds are contributing through the legitimate care of their young or SN kids while others are somehow okay justifying their days of yoga and book clubs by pointing to their clean house and transportation of middle-schoolers to soccer practice - things the rest of us do on top of full time employment. Some wealthy unemployed dedicate their lives to worthy causes, while others post on IG for clout.

I don't think this is a matter for therapy. It's okay to judge poor behavior. And enjoying the benefits of our society/culture/country while failing to contribute is exactly that.

That’s just ridiculous. There are many ways to contribute to society. When I stayed at home, I volunteered a great deal. I do think this kind of rigid thinking and judgment is rooted in something else. I don’t think PP is merely a jerk.

What you've described is exactly what I've described. You're defending yourself by detailing substantial volunteer work - which tells me that you also value people who contribute to society instead of sitting on their asses. Sounds like we're of the same mind.

If a life of leisure makes them happy, why do you care? Care about your own choices. I find work fulfilling and don't enjoy too much time in the house. Life is short, to each her own!

Because that's not how society works. There are no impactless decisions - our lives are all complexly intertwined. And we shouldn't look kindly upon those who take without contributing.

Arguably the single biggest contribution one can make to society is raising healthy, well-adjusted children who will themselves contribute when they come of age. Some working parents are able to do that in addition to work. Others believe it is a FT endeavor, and simply make different choices in their lives. Yes, of course it's complex and there are usually trade-offs either way.

But why is it more important that your kids contribute than that YOU contribute? You were once a kid that someone took time to raise

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have these sort of involuntary mental reactions to - for example - social media posts from friends whose kids are in school full time but they don’t have a job/ anything they do - and they’re just doing nothing. I work crazy bananas hard and always have - and make a pretty decent salary. At one point I stopped working when the kids were little - but got pretty depressed and went back. Am I just jealous of them? I don’t want to be judgmental so why does my brain do this? I’m sure it is hiding a deeper feeling and my therapist has said I need to figure out what is triggering me

I don't struggle with my feelings. I'm very comfortable judging them.

Our society functions because people work. Those who choose not to work are riding on the coattails of those who do. Most/all of them have value to add to society, yet they decline to do so. That's selfish.

There's a lot of grey space in this perception. Some SAHM/Ds are contributing through the legitimate care of their young or SN kids while others are somehow okay justifying their days of yoga and book clubs by pointing to their clean house and transportation of middle-schoolers to soccer practice - things the rest of us do on top of full time employment. Some wealthy unemployed dedicate their lives to worthy causes, while others post on IG for clout.

I don't think this is a matter for therapy. It's okay to judge poor behavior. And enjoying the benefits of our society/culture/country while failing to contribute is exactly that.

Can I ask you a logistical question? How does someone with a full-time job keep their house clean, get their kids to school/activities and all the other places kids need to be (with all the stuff they need with them for those activities)?

I'm not being snarky, I don't understand how this works. My kids are still young and I am trying to figure out how to make this work as they age into school and the best we've come up with is "hire housecleaners and a nanny to drive them to things and stay on top of laundry/food/etc." And as I'm pricing that out and looking at our salaries.... I am confused as to how other families make this work. I don't want to quit my job to clean the house and chauffeur the kids but I also just do not understand how this works logistically if you really do have two full time jobs, especially if they are both in person jobs and not the kind with flexible hours.

I'm busy all day both before and after work, our house isn't as clean as I would like, we don't eat as healthily as I would like, I'm exhausted and I don't think I can keep up full time work for much longer. That's reality for me. My work is pretty flexible but I just can't do everything, and my spouse works full-time in an office. My kids are in elementary and middle school.

This is the truth for most dual income couples. For the ones it's not the truth for, they are outsourcing a lot.

In other words, there is enormous value in having a SAHP, even when your kids are school age. Raising kids and taking care of a family home requires a lot of work. Someone is doing it, no matter what. Either one or both parents are working a double shift, you're hiring people, or the house/family is always right on the edge of going to pieces (producing a ton of stress for all involved).

This is why I will never understand the people who act like SAHPs with school age kids are just lazy. I guess some small percentage of SAHPs have so much money from their spouse's income that they are outsourcing everything in addition to not working. I'll grant that those people might be lazy (or maybe they are building a business you don't know about, or caring for an elderly parent, or have a disability, as others on this thread have pointed out). But most SAHPs are just doing all the stuff that working parents either outsource or squeeze into the hours between when the finish work and fall asleep. Doesn't that stuff have value? If it didn't, you wouldn't do it.

PP here. The SAHMs having full time, permanent (not just when the kids are little) outside help is what I notice. Hard to say that is not lazy.

I am a SAHM with lots of help (not full time though, even I cannot afford that). Kids are NT and grown. Lazy? Maybe. DH and kids don't mind. Anybody who knows me IRL does not mind. What should I do? Clean the 4000sqft house by myself? Clean the pool myself? Do landscaping myself? Or make my DH do it when he comes back from work? That is ridiculous! It is clear that this is just SES-jealousy.

+1. I like you!

Me too! but I'm morbidly curious what you do all day

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that focusing on whether or not that SAHMs of school-aged kids are making a bad choice is the wrong way to think about OP’s issue. It actually doesn’t matter. The issue is that OP is apparently having an outsized reaction to things that don’t impact her and that she can’t do anything about. People make terrible decisions all the time, and it’s important to notice when our reaction to those decisions are having a negative impact on our lives. Those reactions tell us about ourselves and might point to something in our life that we could actually change and make better.

I have had to work through this with a therapist. I used to ruminate in the shower about the way that some husbands treated their wives and this sort of got me down, even though my husband is amazing! And I didnt have this intense reaction to hearing about things that were objectively worse. Talking with my therapist, I realized that when I heard about men treating their wives badly, it subconsciously reminded me of my mom complaining of my dad treating her badly and sort of got me in that same headspace. I think I was ultimately a little unsure about my husband’s love and commitment for me. I worked on how to feel more secure in my marriage and on accepting the fact that life is always uncertain. Just thinking “well maybe these wives are exaggerating how bad it was” wouldn’t have helped.

Op - this is maybe it.
I think I was brought up and educated to believe that everyone should be contributing to society and that doing ‘nothing’ all day is inherently ‘less than’. So I have worked SO hard to fulfil that ‘destiny’ - and done work in politics and ngos and news and on campaigns etc. but I’m also tired so it’s like my trigger is my exhaustion and stress fighting with what my parents and very expensive private school raised me to think was ‘correct’

I’m one of the PPs, and newly SAH with school age kids. This was it for me, too. My parents revere and respect work and really imparted that to us. I get contributing to society. I worked almost continuously from 15-40 and also had some kids! You have contributed. You are still contributing if you’re bringing up kids and I bet you have decades left of useful healthy life in front of you and will do more work for the benefit of society, however you define it. It’s ok to be at leisure, too. If you think about it, so much human endeavor is about making life easier, more efficient, and more comfortable for people so that in theory we CAN enjoy leisure. But for some reason, instead of taking advantage of all those efficiencies and labor saving technology, we make ourselves work more.

You don’t owe society or capitalism your labor. Nothing wrong with taking some time to enjoy if you can afford it (which all that working and saving allowed me to do).

Capitalism? No. Society? Yes. Otherwise you're just a parasite.

Arbeit macht frei, baby.

Idk if the sign they had on concentration camps next to the word ‘baby’ is achieving what you want it to here

But what PP is alluding to is accurate: the theory that you're a parasite if you're not contributing with your labor was the justification for putting disabled people in camps. Obviously nobody is suggesting that we should do something like that, but the idea that people who don't labor are threats to society definitely has a chokehold on us.

[Anonymous]

You are all crazy. You are so quick to judge individuals based on like 4 facts about their lives. This reflects your own limitations and unhappiness, not theirs. Claiming to be worried that they will be in a bad position if they divorce? Girl, please.

Most SAHPs work. They are scrubbing toilets and wiping butts and doing laundry and running errands and making dinner. Even the stuff people complain is "make work" -- some of the school organizing, the decorating and organizing, the trips to Target... every job has some BS make-work in it. You really want to sit there and line your day up with a SAHMs to see which of you is more productive? Y'ALL ARE COMPLAINING ON DCUM IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WORK DAY. Me too. None of us is busting our butts.

Sure, some of them might have wealth from their spouse or their family that enables them to outsource everything and lead lives of leisure. If you were independently wealthy without needing to work... would you go into an office every day and send your little emails and attend your little meetings and deal with the petty beaurocracy in your little organization? Where do you work? Law? Lobbying? Consultant? Insurance industry? I know you aren't nurses and school teachers because if you were, you'd be working not right, not fussing about "lazy parasites" on DCUM.

Your really going to tell me that you would work even if you absolutely didn't have to, and that whatever it is you do is more inherently valuable than taking care of children or a family home.

I'm a working mom and I think you all are self-important and ridiculous. My DH and I joke often about how long it would take us to quit our jobs if we were suddenly wealthy. As long as it takes to communicate my decision to leave to my employer, that's how long. I'm not a jerk, so I'll give you my standard two weeks to "ease the transition." Then I'm taking a year off to relax, then I'm finding some "life purpose" type job that probably doesn't even pay money where I can contribute without having to do all the dump little BS that I do in my money-making job because I need the money.

And you'd all do the same. Some of you wouldn't even go find your life's purpose, you'd just just keep going on vacation. You'd start decorating the house.

You are all full of it! You're just mad because you are working and work isn't that fun and you resent people who don't have to work. The end.

[Anonymous]

I don’t work because I don’t want to and DH doesn’t want me to. Every so often after a rough day with my preschooler and infant, I joke about going back to work. He gets a panicked look on his face. Me working would not materially change our HHI, we’d pay more in taxes, and we’d have to hire a nanny or pay daycare for 2. We’d also both be busier on nights and weekends with cooking and cleaning. That doesn’t appeal to us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are all crazy. You are so quick to judge individuals based on like 4 facts about their lives. This reflects your own limitations and unhappiness, not theirs. Claiming to be worried that they will be in a bad position if they divorce? Girl, please.

Most SAHPs work. They are scrubbing toilets and wiping butts and doing laundry and running errands and making dinner. Even the stuff people complain is "make work" -- some of the school organizing, the decorating and organizing, the trips to Target... every job has some BS make-work in it. You really want to sit there and line your day up with a SAHMs to see which of you is more productive? Y'ALL ARE COMPLAINING ON DCUM IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WORK DAY. Me too. None of us is busting our butts.

Sure, some of them might have wealth from their spouse or their family that enables them to outsource everything and lead lives of leisure. If you were independently wealthy without needing to work... would you go into an office every day and send your little emails and attend your little meetings and deal with the petty beaurocracy in your little organization? Where do you work? Law? Lobbying? Consultant? Insurance industry? I know you aren't nurses and school teachers because if you were, you'd be working not right, not fussing about "lazy parasites" on DCUM.

Your really going to tell me that you would work even if you absolutely didn't have to, and that whatever it is you do is more inherently valuable than taking care of children or a family home.

I'm a working mom and I think you all are self-important and ridiculous. My DH and I joke often about how long it would take us to quit our jobs if we were suddenly wealthy. As long as it takes to communicate my decision to leave to my employer, that's how long. I'm not a jerk, so I'll give you my standard two weeks to "ease the transition." Then I'm taking a year off to relax, then I'm finding some "life purpose" type job that probably doesn't even pay money where I can contribute without having to do all the dump little BS that I do in my money-making job because I need the money.

And you'd all do the same. Some of you wouldn't even go find your life's purpose, you'd just just keep going on vacation. You'd start decorating the house.

You are all full of it! You're just mad because you are working and work isn't that fun and you resent people who don't have to work. The end.

I don’t think this is true and I’m sad for you that you hate your job that much