Women expecting other women to be in charge of all holidays/logistics/family dynamics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well those that care do the most. Truthfully if women did not step up the holidays would be take out food. Nothing wrong with it but most women do not want this.

+100. Exactly! DH would have carryout sushi. I enjoy holidays, a full table spread, carrying on and making our family's traditions, decorations, all of it. So does my mom. I got the gene.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Did none of these older women have jobs? I was born in 1986 and NONE of the women in my family had jobs but I thought we were an anomaly. How exhausting to be trying to work and also be expected to coordinate a gourmet meal (and there better not be any subpar stuffing.)

OP here. I was born in 1979 and plenty of my mom’s peers had jobs, including my mom, but it’s like they still have this ingrained homemaking servitude chip embedded in them. My dad does no holiday prep or planning, no meal prep or planning, doesn’t even buy cards and gifts for his own sister. I can recall holidays where my brother was allowed to stay at the table while my sister and I were expected to clear the table. I don’t get it, I really don’t.

I think because if it was left to the majority of men nothing would happen. Seriously. My husband doesn't care about Thanksgiving or Easter dinners. If it were up to him, he would just find someplace that has takeout. Same with special holiday traditions for the kids. I do care about it though. So there it is.

It's this. I overheard a dad talking at the end of the season sports game yesterday about the coach gift. Another dad asked something about it, and the first dad said something like "dads never sit around and decide that what the coach really needs is a gift." Probably the dad coach didn't care either. But, one of the moms got a text chain going to solicit funds for the coach gift to all the other moms. Women bring this on themselves. They decide things need to happen and then are left to make them happen. When men often don't even care if they happen at all.

+2. My husband would be perfectly happy with pizza for Thanksgiving dinner and that’s what he’d plan if he was in charge.

+3

We wouldn’t be celebrating any holidays if it was up to DH. I feel bad for his family bc he doesn’t send cards or gifts, rarely calls, rarely visits.
When we do visit, he makes plans in his head but doesn’t share them with anyone and the is surprised when his family makes different plans.

I don’t know why I think this is funny.

[Anonymous]

DH is a full partner and helps with all of this, which also means I spend every holiday listening to how lucky I am (with an undertone of judgement for maybe being lazy?).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not a perfect system, but my inlaws will text both dh and me. They realize that I do everything but are trying to get their son to be more responsive/ not put the burden on me. I nag dh to answer them back. I wish he'd do this on his own, but I'm trying. We're both juggling a lot of balls but somehow he puts his extended family last and I can still manage to do mine.

Why nag, tho? Let it play out without you getting involved and see what comes of it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Did none of these older women have jobs? I was born in 1986 and NONE of the women in my family had jobs but I thought we were an anomaly. How exhausting to be trying to work and also be expected to coordinate a gourmet meal (and there better not be any subpar stuffing.)

OP here. I was born in 1979 and plenty of my mom’s peers had jobs, including my mom, but it’s like they still have this ingrained homemaking servitude chip embedded in them. My dad does no holiday prep or planning, no meal prep or planning, doesn’t even buy cards and gifts for his own sister. I can recall holidays where my brother was allowed to stay at the table while my sister and I were expected to clear the table. I don’t get it, I really don’t.

I think because if it was left to the majority of men nothing would happen. Seriously. My husband doesn't care about Thanksgiving or Easter dinners. If it were up to him, he would just find someplace that has takeout. Same with special holiday traditions for the kids. I do care about it though. So there it is.

It's this. I overheard a dad talking at the end of the season sports game yesterday about the coach gift. Another dad asked something about it, and the first dad said something like "dads never sit around and decide that what the coach really needs is a gift." Probably the dad coach didn't care either. But, one of the moms got a text chain going to solicit funds for the coach gift to all the other moms. Women bring this on themselves. They decide things need to happen and then are left to make them happen. When men often don't even care if they happen at all.

+2. My husband would be perfectly happy with pizza for Thanksgiving dinner and that’s what he’d plan if he was in charge.

+3

We wouldn’t be celebrating any holidays if it was up to DH. I feel bad for his family bc he doesn’t send cards or gifts, rarely calls, rarely visits.
When we do visit, he makes plans in his head but doesn’t share them with anyone and the is surprised when his family makes different plans.

I don’t know why I think this is funny.

Np. Plans in husband's head not shared leading to disbelief that everyone else didn't get the non existent memo? I feel seen!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My MIL only includes the women on emails and texts about travel plans, holidays, etc. I said something in passing about it to my husband about how it’s a symptom of the patriarchy and we got in a huge fight that lasted days. I actually don’t even try to fix it anymore and just do EVERYTHING but apparently can’t call a spade a spade. Apparently that was very insulting to him and all of his male relatives.

Why not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH goes off to hunting camp for about 5 days. All of the women would get on this big email chain and would plan out what food to send with the guys. After I got married and put on the email chain- I was like wtf and I refused. One year they said something to me about it and asked what casserole I was sending. I told them that DH should be the one making me meals because he's leaving me with a baby and a toddler for 5 days. DH never once asked me to make something, it's the older women doing all of this.

I have a son and am getting him to help as much as possible with holiday decorating, meal planning for big events/holidays, gift shopping and planning ahead (like if you want to see the Nutcracker, you have to buy tickets a month in advance). I noticed early on that my daughter was always included in stuff like this, but my son got left out.

OMG that is terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you get your sons to grow up, caring and wanting to be involved in family holidays and relationships?

You model for them that that’s what men do. You don’t “rescue” DH by sending his mom a Mother’s Day gift. About two weeks before Mother’s Day, you make it part of dinner table conversation: “Ted, what are you planning to get your mom for Mother’s Day? If you need help with ideas, I can give you some, but make sure you put the order in with enough time for it to arrive by Sunday the 12th.”

You make it part of dinner table conversation: “Ted, we’ll be with my family for Thanksgiving this year; what are your plans with your family for Christmas? Have you called your sister yet to make a plan? I’d be happy to help cook and bake whatever, but let me know what the plans are so I can get my shopping and cooking done.”

Etc. Just make it a natural part of family dialogue.

Are you serious? To me that seems like demonstrating that the mental labour is the woman's responsibility and that the man just has to follow through. "My shopping and cooking"? No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you get your sons to grow up, caring and wanting to be involved in family holidays and relationships?

You model for them that that’s what men do. You don’t “rescue” DH by sending his mom a Mother’s Day gift. About two weeks before Mother’s Day, you make it part of dinner table conversation: “Ted, what are you planning to get your mom for Mother’s Day? If you need help with ideas, I can give you some, but make sure you put the order in with enough time for it to arrive by Sunday the 12th.”

You make it part of dinner table conversation: “Ted, we’ll be with my family for Thanksgiving this year; what are your plans with your family for Christmas? Have you called your sister yet to make a plan? I’d be happy to help cook and bake whatever, but let me know what the plans are so I can get my shopping and cooking done.”

Etc. Just make it a natural part of family dialogue.

Are you serious? To me that seems like demonstrating that the mental labour is the woman's responsibility and that the man just has to follow through. "My shopping and cooking"? No thanks.

Quoting myself here-- It's really depressing to me that this is the example of how to be gender equitable. To nag your husband, show that you are in charge of the holidays and it's the dad's job to carry out your plan, and to do the shopping. shaking my head.

[Anonymous]

All the people saying that nothing would happen for the holidays if they didn't do it are kind of bumming me out. When I met DH he was a Scrooge (some bad Xmas-timed memories from childhood) so I had to kind of win him over on that front, but he makes nearly the entire Thanksgiving spread solo (I make the gravy). Now that our kid is old enough to "make" memories he's been sending me brainstorming ideas for light displays to check out, or events that he found out are sold out and wants to remember to check earlier next year.

He handles his family's gifts; I push for photo cards. If I bowed out of all organizing effort we'd have different holidays (certainly fewer cookies) but not *nothing.*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wait, based on the subsequent comments, i can't tell if people think the dad's in the "coach gift" story up thread is support of the idea that "if we left things to men, the world would fall apart" or "men have the right idea". I read it and thought, yeah men have the right idea, and women make work up that is so dumb and unnecessary and then complain about it. The coach gift - and needing to set up a fund, and get everyone to contribute then send it to the coach.... that is a colossal dumb waste of time and 20 years ago, no one - women nor men - was wasting time with stuff like that. And then you add 5 minutes of time waste to every parent on the team, who has to now figure out whatever dumb app it is to make a contribution. So i read that "coach gift" story as a perfect example of men having the right idea, and the world will in fact continue to turn if we don't do all these dumb tasks.

But i'm fascinated - it looks like some of you saw it as evidence of the opposite?

No, I'm a woman and I'm with the men on some of these things. I think a bunch of stuff is made up make work. Especially at school. Coaches gifts aside (these are easy now because of Venmo), I keep things simple. No elaborate schedules or spreadsheets. We alternate years for celebrations (for Thanksgiving, in-laws get one year, my parents get the next). We don't buy birthday or Christmas gifts for extended family. We keep our traditions simple. We buy store bought or easy to put together things to contribute (i.e. I'll send DH to buy a pie from a bakery instead of cooking one).

My husband has always been in charge of his own family. His gifts for his parents are embarrassing (once he got everything from a gas station), but oh well. They know they're from him.

Yes but this thread is about older women (generally on the DH side of the family) wanting things to happen and being angry *exclusively at women * when the next generation doesn’t make them happen. Women are allowed to have preferences about what they are willing to take on or not. My DH is a crap planner in a lot of ways but he is aware he is exclusively in charge of finding times to visit his parents because it’s a chore and I hate the back and forth. Once the trip is happening I do ensure my kids have everything they need and the trip will go smoothly. To me that is not something I’m ok to drop the rope on. I also make sure we have trips and gifts and things set up with my nieces and nephews on both sides. It’s important to me. So those things happen but I don’t even think my DH got my MIL a birthday gift this year. I doubt that was a conscious decision that he didn’t think it was worth doing, because he has in other years but it was his decision not to put a system in place to remember it like I do for my parents. She may be complaining about me to her friends but at least it’s not to my face

[Anonymous]

So much of this is family dependent and I would not take it upon myself to " correct" others dynamics unless I was specifically asked for advice.


You can do whatever works for you and your family.

I will say that not every instance is negative in some cases this is how the women of the family bond and welcome the married ins and how you learn a lot about your new family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All the people saying that nothing would happen for the holidays if they didn't do it are kind of bumming me out. When I met DH he was a Scrooge (some bad Xmas-timed memories from childhood) so I had to kind of win him over on that front, but he makes nearly the entire Thanksgiving spread solo (I make the gravy). Now that our kid is old enough to "make" memories he's been sending me brainstorming ideas for light displays to check out, or events that he found out are sold out and wants to remember to check earlier next year.

He handles his family's gifts; I push for photo cards. If I bowed out of all organizing effort we'd have different holidays (certainly fewer cookies) but not *nothing.*

I think it’s ok for people to celebrate in different ways. If the way you or your family celebrates doesn’t meet your expectations, there no harm in taking the initiative to implement your vision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you get your sons to grow up, caring and wanting to be involved in family holidays and relationships?

You model for them that that’s what men do. You don’t “rescue” DH by sending his mom a Mother’s Day gift. About two weeks before Mother’s Day, you make it part of dinner table conversation: “Ted, what are you planning to get your mom for Mother’s Day? If you need help with ideas, I can give you some, but make sure you put the order in with enough time for it to arrive by Sunday the 12th.”

You make it part of dinner table conversation: “Ted, we’ll be with my family for Thanksgiving this year; what are your plans with your family for Christmas? Have you called your sister yet to make a plan? I’d be happy to help cook and bake whatever, but let me know what the plans are so I can get my shopping and cooking done.”

Etc. Just make it a natural part of family dialogue.

Are you serious? To me that seems like demonstrating that the mental labour is the woman's responsibility and that the man just has to follow through. "My shopping and cooking"? No thanks.

NP. Are you serious? Bringing up an upcoming event and discussing it is “nagging”? Since when?

Quoting myself here-- It's really depressing to me that this is the example of how to be gender equitable. To nag your husband, show that you are in charge of the holidays and it's the dad's job to carry out your plan, and to do the shopping. shaking my head.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.