Women expecting other women to be in charge of all holidays/logistics/family dynamics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's part of the new wave of " feminism". Feminism is in quotes because it's not feminism at all.

It's attack and be nasty towards anyone who doesn't do what I want. Mark them as misogynists and upholders of patriarchy.

Shame all things traditionally considered female as toxic and detrimental unless a male wants to do it.

Uplift anything traditionally male unless a male wants to do it then it's toxic.

Traditional methods of familial bonding are labeled oppressive.

This is absolutely true. You see it in this thread. I enjoy cooking and decorating. So what?

Same. I like making food and all that goes with it. I had a "friend" who bragged that she never cleaned/cooked/did anything domestic because she was setting an example for her daughter. As far as i could tell she spent most of her time eating THC gummies and playing with her phone, while her husband heated up frozen dinners. Smash the patriarchy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's part of the new wave of " feminism". Feminism is in quotes because it's not feminism at all.

It's attack and be nasty towards anyone who doesn't do what I want. Mark them as misogynists and upholders of patriarchy.

Shame all things traditionally considered female as toxic and detrimental unless a male wants to do it.

Uplift anything traditionally male unless a male wants to do it then it's toxic.

Traditional methods of familial bonding are labeled oppressive.

This is absolutely true. You see it in this thread. I enjoy cooking and decorating. So what?

Same. I like making food and all that goes with it. I had a "friend" who bragged that she never cleaned/cooked/did anything domestic because she was setting an example for her daughter. As far as i could tell she spent most of her time eating THC gummies and playing with her phone, while her husband heated up frozen dinners. Smash the patriarchy!

Of f*ck off with the straw man arguments. I think adults if all genders should know how to cook and clean and make plans instead of punting all of those decisions to women.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

DP. Anyone complicit in supporting the continuance of the patriarchy should be called out. I absolutely have contempt for women who expect me to conform to their idea of what a woman/wife should be doing.

Bragging about your husband the chef as a means of putting down other women isn't smashing the patriarchy.

PP you're responding to. My DH isn't a chef and I haven't bragged about him on this thread. I'm the PP who gave him a choice of him buying Christmas gifts for his family or making a donation in their name. I also wrote that, over the course of nearly 30 years together, it hasn't been easy to hold firm on my refusal to conform to the women's idea of what I should be doing. But that I'm glad I have.

Being a feminist is accepting the choices people make.

Choice feminism has been debunked as complete crap. You can CHOOSE to walk 10 paces behind your husband, and only eat the leftovers of his meals, but that ain't feminism, baby.

Puh-lease - you and the other post are choosing to be contrary. Being a feminist absolutely is about respecting choices when they are made from a place of equity (not equality).

And you're not?

Choice feminism also allows its proponents to look down at people who make different choices without bothering to consider their motivation for said choices - all in the name of "feminism." Pass.

[Anonymous]

this thread has been a good read. growing up it was the girls job to wait on the boys. when I complained I was told "it's the Irish way". NO FAIR.

now we do much lower key holidays. things that are important to me (specific sides) I cook and he cooks the turkey. As far as house work goes, he probably does 60%. However, he does pat himself on the back a lot to say that most husbands don't do as much as him (his father is the type to sit on the couch and when his wife finally has a chance to sit down - he asks her to go get him a drink or whatever.)

it's not perfect, but I am not doing x, y, z bc I have a vagina. and he knows it.

[Anonymous]

Indeed! I love my SILs and realized reading this that I use the excuse of reaching out to them about logistics because I want to chatter about other stuff and catch up, but will consciously make it a point to reach out to them to catch up only, and ask my brothers about logistics etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Indeed! I love my SILs and realized reading this that I use the excuse of reaching out to them about logistics because I want to chatter about other stuff and catch up, but will consciously make it a point to reach out to them to catch up only, and ask my brothers about logistics etc.

That is awesome. I’m sure they will appreciate that. I would love it if my ILs reached out to me for something other than (what boils down to) emotional labor: gift ideas, what size are the kids, what dates can we come visit (plan our visit), can you bring pecan pie and roasted vegetables and wine…

Literally the only thing they ever contact me about that isn’t family dynamics/emotional labor is a “Happy Birthday” text, which is a nice thing to do. But I would love it if my SIL showed any interest in me as a person.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

DP. Anyone complicit in supporting the continuance of the patriarchy should be called out. I absolutely have contempt for women who expect me to conform to their idea of what a woman/wife should be doing.

Bragging about your husband the chef as a means of putting down other women isn't smashing the patriarchy.

PP you're responding to. My DH isn't a chef and I haven't bragged about him on this thread. I'm the PP who gave him a choice of him buying Christmas gifts for his family or making a donation in their name. I also wrote that, over the course of nearly 30 years together, it hasn't been easy to hold firm on my refusal to conform to the women's idea of what I should be doing. But that I'm glad I have.

Being a feminist is accepting the choices people make.

Choice feminism has been debunked as complete crap. You can CHOOSE to walk 10 paces behind your husband, and only eat the leftovers of his meals, but that ain't feminism, baby.

Puh-lease - you and the other post are choosing to be contrary. Being a feminist absolutely is about respecting choices when they are made from a place of equity (not equality).

And you're not?

Choice feminism also allows its proponents to look down at people who make different choices without bothering to consider their motivation for said choices - all in the name of "feminism." Pass.

What are you prattling on about? Feminists do not look down upon people who make different choices than the make when it truly is a choice and not pressured conformity to misogyny/patriarchy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My MIL and FIL try to do this, but I keep refusing to be the main point of contact.

MIL will text me and only me to ask for dates of visits, menus, gift ideas for the kids, etc. I always add DH to the text chain and say “Thanks, Ted and I will discuss and he’ll be in touch soon!”

Like, she will actually contact me about logistics and what I’m bringing to THEIR family reunion. I add DH to the text chain and say, “DH usually makes a pie, but he’ll let you know what else he is planning to bring! He’ll let you know what dates we can make it.” This is an annual even that has been going on for decades before we married, why the H would I be the main point of contact for the Smith family reunion?!

You sound like a brat. They are tying to include you.

You sound like a bad MIL. They are trying to insinuate that it's her job for HIS family because it's "women's work." Nope.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

DP. Anyone complicit in supporting the continuance of the patriarchy should be called out. I absolutely have contempt for women who expect me to conform to their idea of what a woman/wife should be doing.

Bragging about your husband the chef as a means of putting down other women isn't smashing the patriarchy.

PP you're responding to. My DH isn't a chef and I haven't bragged about him on this thread. I'm the PP who gave him a choice of him buying Christmas gifts for his family or making a donation in their name. I also wrote that, over the course of nearly 30 years together, it hasn't been easy to hold firm on my refusal to conform to the women's idea of what I should be doing. But that I'm glad I have.

Being a feminist is accepting the choices people make.

Choice feminism has been debunked as complete crap. You can CHOOSE to walk 10 paces behind your husband, and only eat the leftovers of his meals, but that ain't feminism, baby.

Puh-lease - you and the other post are choosing to be contrary. Being a feminist absolutely is about respecting choices when they are made from a place of equity (not equality).

And you're not?

Choice feminism also allows its proponents to look down at people who make different choices without bothering to consider their motivation for said choices - all in the name of "feminism." Pass.

What are you prattling on about? Feminists do not look down upon people who make different choices than the make when it truly is a choice and not pressured conformity to misogyny/patriarchy.

Are you kidding me? I'm a DP, but of course they do. If I choose to be with my baby all day, I'm "wasting" my degree. If I put on my pretty apron and bake a cake I'm giving in to gender stereotypes. Give me a break. You see it all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did none of these older women have jobs? I was born in 1986 and NONE of the women in my family had jobs but I thought we were an anomaly. How exhausting to be trying to work and also be expected to coordinate a gourmet meal (and there better not be any subpar stuffing.)

OP here. I was born in 1979 and plenty of my mom’s peers had jobs, including my mom, but it’s like they still have this ingrained homemaking servitude chip embedded in them. My dad does no holiday prep or planning, no meal prep or planning, doesn’t even buy cards and gifts for his own sister. I can recall holidays where my brother was allowed to stay at the table while my sister and I were expected to clear the table. I don’t get it, I really don’t.

I think because if it was left to the majority of men nothing would happen. Seriously. My husband doesn't care about Thanksgiving or Easter dinners. If it were up to him, he would just find someplace that has takeout. Same with special holiday traditions for the kids. I do care about it though. So there it is.

My husband does care. He helps with decorating, planning, cooking, baking, cleaning, all of it, for every holiday. We don’t care about the same details, and we don’t have the favorite special decorations or dishes, but we both actively care to make holidays nice for our kids, our families, and ourselves.

I wonder how rare that is. My husband wouldn't do ANYTHING in life but have a job (thank goodness for at least that), if it wasn't for my planning and executing absolutely everything. He takes no responsibility for anything and I daresay he doesn't even know what grades our children are in. clothing sizes??? HAHAHAHAHAHAH. I've tried involving him, dropping "the rope", etc., and it's frankly more effort and misery than it's worth. So I do it all. For myself and my kids' sakes. Not ideal, but the best I can do for our family. I have a lot of resentment about it, and a lot of anger. I've lost a lot of respect for him, and can't be attracted to someone so passive about everything. "Do you want me to put the milk in the refrigerator?" I mean really???

[Anonymous]

Misogynistic women are the worst

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

DP. Anyone complicit in supporting the continuance of the patriarchy should be called out. I absolutely have contempt for women who expect me to conform to their idea of what a woman/wife should be doing.

Bragging about your husband the chef as a means of putting down other women isn't smashing the patriarchy.

PP you're responding to. My DH isn't a chef and I haven't bragged about him on this thread. I'm the PP who gave him a choice of him buying Christmas gifts for his family or making a donation in their name. I also wrote that, over the course of nearly 30 years together, it hasn't been easy to hold firm on my refusal to conform to the women's idea of what I should be doing. But that I'm glad I have.

Being a feminist is accepting the choices people make.

Choice feminism has been debunked as complete crap. You can CHOOSE to walk 10 paces behind your husband, and only eat the leftovers of his meals, but that ain't feminism, baby.

Puh-lease - you and the other post are choosing to be contrary. Being a feminist absolutely is about respecting choices when they are made from a place of equity (not equality).

And you're not?

Choice feminism also allows its proponents to look down at people who make different choices without bothering to consider their motivation for said choices - all in the name of "feminism." Pass.

What are you prattling on about? Feminists do not look down upon people who make different choices than the make when it truly is a choice and not pressured conformity to misogyny/patriarchy.

Are you kidding me? I'm a DP, but of course they do. If I choose to be with my baby all day, I'm "wasting" my degree. If I put on my pretty apron and bake a cake I'm giving in to gender stereotypes. Give me a break. You see it all the time.

Exactly, as the PP who is “prattling” on (speaking of looking down on people).

In this thread, it’s women whose husbands aren’t out making pumpkin pies from scratch - you should have chosen a better husband, ladies! This crap happens all.the.time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Off topic, but is one of you of Scandinavian origin? I have my family sold in cranberry relish but never succeeded with rutabagas, so if you need an extra guest next year, LMK!

[Anonymous]

I guarantee all the women here, once divorced (despite their charming personalities), will complain that their future romantic prospects don't pick up the check on first dates.

"I know it's a little old-fashioned, but I still prefer when the guy pays!"

Modern feminism: reject patriarchal standards when they don't benefit you, and embrace them when they do.

[Anonymous]

I think a lot has changed over the years and will continue to change as more people are given the chance to really ask themselves what they want and begin to act with intention rather than relying on tradition, cultural norms and all that.

It’s obviously slow and inconsistent as the old patterns run deep. But it’s about planting seeds where we can.